A330 Job offer EK.

[acy RJ driver]

Hello to all,

Just got an offer from EK for a February A330 course however 777 is my preference. How probable would it be to get the 777 if I were to hold off on taking the offer?

Thanks and Happy Landings

Acy.

[Iver]

I have a mate who inquired about making the switch when he started from Airbus to 777 and he was denied. Perhaps it has happened - I don't know. That said, keep in mind that most of the growth going forward is on the Airbus side (A380s and eventual A350s). He actually likes the A330 flying (despite a lot of night flights to India) - the variety of routes is very interesting for him as he gets to see parts of Africa and the ME he would never see otherwise (something he values - maybe not other people). Good or bad depending on your perspective, you could be an A380 FO in 2-3 years from the start. This could be your view:

Photos: Airbus A380-861 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

If you are concerned about not getting home to the States as much on the Airbus fleet, I hear the A380s will start to replace many of the 777s on US routes in the coming years (that's the rumour).

I would say go ahead and make the request for a change to the 777 but set your expectations accordingly - don't be surprised if they say no. With all of the desparate pilots applying at EK - the company definitely have the LEVERAGE.

Make sure you go to EK with your eyes wide open regarding the negatives of the job - just read the many perspectives (positive and negative) on these Pprune threads and understand it is not like flying in the States. You would be a guest in their country and play by THEIR CHANGING RULES.

Let us know if your request is granted (just curious - you can PM me). Good luck!

[MosEisley]

Iver, is right there are many desperate pilots applying but what he did not mention was the fact that only 20% of those are getting offers and less are accepting. I'd say if you have an offer, you have some leverage. If you can wait, hold out for 777. Also, if you are an RJ driver as your screen name would indicate, you will not see the 380 for at least 3-4 years or until you have 3000 hours in 55+ ton aircraft. If you want to be able to fly home to the US on working trips (if that's where you are from), then the 777 is your only hope.

[EK380]

I would turn the 777 down and go for the 330 if you have a long term vision (>4 years) of staying!!!

The number of guys (and girls) that joined on the B fleet is huge. There are not that many 777's coming anymore and the ones coming will eventually mainly be for B fleet replacement.

If you have a short time vision, then 777 will be fine, that's if you only look for long haul destinations and don't care about career perspectives.

Looking at the potential upgrades is a different story:
My upgrade estimate for guys joining now:
A : 5-7 years (might depend on 350 deliveries)
B: 10 years or more, since there are loads of people ahead of you and the final number of B aircraft in the fleet is almost here.

With EK these things come in cycles. For guys joining now, the B cycle is now coming to an end while the A cycle will be rising shortly.

Needless to say it is a different story for the guys that have been here for 2 to 3 years. Then no doubt the B fleet is the way to go.

Just my own thoughts...

[donpizmeov]

250 aeroplanes in the fleet by 2018 as quoted by Tim Clark. 155 aeroplanes in the fleet now. Normal crewing between 8 to 10 crew per aircraft. Use 10 * 95 = 950; so the last 300 pilots already on the list (well more than that when you consider ex cadets further up the list will get the hours by 2018) have not got an upgrade from fleet growth until some time after 2018. As stated above, because of the upgrade policy this will hurt the current boeing FOs more than the current Bus Fos, as there are so many more Boeing FOs on the list than Bus FOs., and most new deliveries until then are on the Bus side.

So plan on at least 10yrs for an upgrade when joining. If it comes earlier that's a bonus.

The Don

[Wizofoz]

20% of those are getting offers and less are accepting.

Then we must be making around 150 offers a month, as we are filling every course, every week.

[wingflex]

With regards to an upgrade, it just depends on the TYPE of hours that one joins with. If you already have 3000+ hours on an EK type before joining, then you will need a total of 6000 and 3 years of service in EK to be eligible for command. You will pretty much bypass the guys on the seniority list, if they have not have checked all the boxes for command (6000 TT, 3000 on EK type) , and YOU have!
WF

[EK380]

Calculating the crew ratio is almost correct... except that ones needs to subtract the number of Atlas and TNT 747's for us, since there pilots are not included in 2500 number!

Not a huge change however.
You will find a 8.6 to 8.8 ratio.

[fatbus]

even if you used 9/AC =4500 pilots for 250 AC or @2250 Captains and there is 2500 pilots here now, so if things stayed static 250 pilots here already will not be upgraded before 2020.5% attrition 125 /year , might be a bit high long term, 2.5% might be closer . Don't listen to those that claim there is going to be a mass exodus you will be disappointed when it does not happen and upgrades take longer

[donpizmeov]

Wingflex, I hate to put an end to your plan of treading over those in front of you on the seniority list, but, with the longer wait now for command, the 6000hrs and 3000hrs on type will no longer be limiting as they will be logged at EK during the wait for command course. The guys are flying 850hrs to 900hrs per year so even a 4yr wait for command would do. Plan on 10yrs plus to upgrade.

The Don

[wingflex]

i respectfully disagree with your 10 years plus to an upgrade. We shall see

[sig83]

I also got an offer for the bus in February and wanted the Boeing. I asked if there were any earlier Boeing slots available and I was shot down, but I told them to keep me in mind. We shall see.

What kind of layovers can one expect on the 330? or is it mostly turns?

[Iver]

Sig,

Again, most of this info comes from my mate on the A330 (I know people on both the Airbus and Boeing fleets). The A330 gets a good mix of Europe, ME and Africa. Euro layovers include Munich, Zurich, Newcastle, Athens and Nice. You hit every major city in the Middle East, India and Pakistan. In Africa you hit most of the cities on the East side as well as Durban, South Africa. You don't end up flying the ultra-long haul flights that you would on the 777 fleet (although Durban can be a long flight - I think 8-9 hours?). So, you get shorter, local flights (including the dreaded midnight turns to India) mixed with some medium-haul to Europe for the most part. My mate enjoys the variety of the routes. The A340-500 (which you might transition to after 1-2 years if you don't get bumped to the A380) flies to Australia, China and some European and West African flights.

As mentioned earlier, the A380 will be replacing some of the 777s on flights to the States in the future. The Airbus side will see the bulk of the growth with something like 90-120 A380s have been ordered - not sure if all orders will eventually show up on the tarmac. As a newhire on the A330 you can probably expect to be in this A380 seat in 2-3 years depending upon total time/experience/company need:

JetPhotos.Net Photo » A6-EDK (CN: 030) Emirates Airbus A380-861 by geo

In that case, you will get primarily long-haul flying (States, Canada, Asia, some Europe) and the associated fatigue/exhaustion. So, enjoy the shorter, local flights on the A330 while you can.

[Craic Ore]

Iver,

Do you work here? I would have to respectfully disagree with a lot in your post. I've seen both fleets and for now, the 777 is the place to be. Please let me explain.

Yes, the 330 does some europe. BUT, ATH is a turnaround, NCE, MLA, NCE and heavily taken by training. ZRH is going all boeing. MUC will shortly too. This is one I think many haven't thought about - yes, the 330 gets the new Europe, (Prague and Madrid) but as a new 380 comes in a scoops a LHR, CDG, FRA or whatever is next, we in turn take away a MUC or PRA for example. SO, every 380 is good for the 380 guys but neutral for the 330 guys. And better for the 777 guys as we get new routes to replace the ones we're bored of in the EU.

As well, check out Jan '11. 777 to BNE and it has MEL, SYD direct as well. Both PERs, I mean, I feel for the 330/340 guys, it's still going downhill and fast. So yes, Africa, but ask them how thrilled they are with that. Not much good going on down there. No walks to the cafes, no nights out in BKK being a per.......you know what I mean. Just lots and lots of turns, and too many in the middle of the night. Just ask them, it's not sitting well.

And I keep hearing all these rumours of the 380 to the US. JFK - yep, YYZ - yep, BOS - yep, Philly, IAD, yep, eastern seaboard it can do. But it ends there. It can barely make YYZ and JFK, so there's no hope of mid/south/west coast, it just doesn't have the legs. I don't think it will for years, if ever. Ask the guys, check out the FPs on GABI, you'll see a full flight is at max wt. No room for anything.

So yes, the 330 is a great machine, but I strongly recommend avoiding it at all costs. You'd have 4-5 years of hell before any improvement. Not my idea of a good time and definately not of the guys flying it. Just ask around.

Hey, if you choose to disagree, go ahead, but I've been there, done that and would walk out the door before doing it again.

Respectfully,
CO

[fatbus]

As someone already said 777 short term Airbus long term,there is more choice on the 777 because of fleet size so its easier to find what you like and can hold which is hard to do on the bus,330 's gone in 3 years 340 gone in 6 years,.most of the FO's will or can transfer to the 380/350 or upgrade 330/350

[Iver]

CO,

I do not work for EK and I do not necessarily disagree with you. As I said, I have friends on both fleets. My mates on the 777 love the airplane and the routes. No question about that - although most are pretty knackered after their longish flights (fatigue is an issue with any longhaul flying) to LAX, SFO and Sao Paulo. They also acknowledge that growth will slow and some routes will be swapped for A380s over time. Other people have talked about the potential differences in upgrade times and I have nothing to add on that front.

My good friend on the A330 side actually enjoys his routes - but that is his perspective. People have different opinions and perspectives. That said, avoiding the A330 fleet "at all costs" seems a bit extreme. Talk about fleet pride - you certainly have it. My mate on that fleet would disagree but you also have your sources with their own opinions. I think sitting as FO on the 777 and A380 fleets would probably be similar experiences but you can't get to the A380 from the 777 from what I hear. So, if it takes you 2-3 years of A330 time to get to the A380 then that's what it takes. Perhaps you get some A340 time and their longhaul routes to explore in the interim.

I don't work for EK as I don't have the required time/experience yet to be considered. I have friends who do and some enjoy EK while others are not so happy and are looking to return home. Some great advice: keep your expectations low (expect bumps) and go to EK with your eyes wide open understanding that the grass is not necessarily greener in the brown desert.

Like any job, it is what you make of it... You could do a lot worse than flying an A330 for EK.

[sig83]

Does anyone ever transfer from the Bus to the Boeing?

It seems like all the classes were Boeing, now all of a sudden they changed them to the Airbus, why? All the orders they are getting are Boeing and aren't taking any Airbus for a while

[InnocentBystander]

It seems like all the classes were Boeing, now all of a sudden they changed them to the Airbus, why? All the orders they are getting are Boeing and aren't taking any Airbus for a while

What are you smoking? We have been taking a new 380 almost every other month this year? The delivery hiatus was only on the 777. And that has ended now as well.

We're short on all fleets so they had to start hiring on the airbus eventually. Plus more A380 means more Captains needed there, so A330/340 Skippers are transitioning there, which in turn means long needed upgrades are happening there as well (They're at, what, 5 years now?). So, they finally need Bus F/O's. Btw, the current 380 F/O's get screwed.

But, however you spin the numbers, someone joining today looks at a 7-10 year upgrade, depending on future orders. As others have sufficiently pointed out, here and elsewhere, the current orders don't even upgrade everyone on board right now.

Might as well enjoy it on a fleet with lots of nice destinations and good roster variety.

[sig83]

I'm not smoking anything. They told us they were only receiving the first 15 A380's through february then not getting any for 12 months after. Then they start coming again.

[ROKAPE]

Iver can you direct me to a thread on your operation so I can pontificate hearsay and pub dribble from my 'mates', 'good friends' and 'boeing test pilots'. Your constant links to romantic mood lit COCKpit photos are a real treat. How about concentrating on gaining that 'required experience', then you can flame on about EK with some sort of credibility.