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EK 380 FO's getting bypassed

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EK 380 FO's getting bypassed

Old 8th Dec 2010, 17:16
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EK 380 FO's getting bypassed

Heard that some guys on 330/340 got letters for upgrade way down the line!!!

Any confirmed reports out there?
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Old 8th Dec 2010, 17:51
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Only fair, 330/40 have suffered over last couple of years. Nice to see some recompense.
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Old 8th Dec 2010, 20:48
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Aye suffering, long night turns to India, annex 1 turns every month, as opposed to refresher sims every 28 days to keep currency, you guys were aware of the risks .no sympathy from me, or anyone else on the 330
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Old 9th Dec 2010, 02:18
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Nice 145, well it looks like divide and conquer has worked well. If they can sha*t one group of pilots, they can sha*t us all. A little solidarity is not too much to ask, is it?
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Old 9th Dec 2010, 04:06
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no sympathy from me, or anyone else on the 330
wrong!! don't speak for me...or anyone else on the 330.

tz
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Old 9th Dec 2010, 05:40
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What is the reason for the bypass? If they don't meet the current requirements than they are not being bypassed, they just don't qualify
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Old 9th Dec 2010, 05:49
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There are a number of F/Os on the 380 who didn't volunteer for it and don't really want to be there- they were moved because the company didn't have enough volunteers with 4 engine Airbus time. If those guys are now being passed over for command it is really unfair.
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Old 9th Dec 2010, 06:08
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99 % of the 380 F/o's are delighted to be on the aircraft. Many may have been hesitant to initially come across to the "super" due to the potential upgrade delay back on the 330, but once here the lifestyle is a no brainer! A great aircraft, and a great network. No comparison to the slave labour rostering on the 330, and the 777. However, I agree the 380 Fo's have been treated terribly by 380 management regarding upgrade opportunities. The latest very strong rumour is that 380 F/o's will remain in the right seat until they are offered left seat 350, but not until 2014 at the very earliest!!!!! And management think they are doing the 380 FO's a favour by offering the 350 as a carrot!!!
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Old 10th Dec 2010, 03:20
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Fugazi,

Are most A380 FOs being sourced from the combined A330 and A340 fleets? Do you need 4-engined Airbus time to make the transition to the A380 or can you just jump from the A330 to the A380?

Also, as time passes and more A380s enter the fleet, will they continue to fly primarily longhaul (perhaps replace 777s with A380s on select US flights once again) or will we eventually see them flying the redeye Indian and local ME flights as well? Perhaps the QOL currently experienced on the A380 won't remain very long.
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Old 10th Dec 2010, 04:40
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Iver, you ask a lot of questions that there are no answers for except perhaps, or perhaps not.
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Old 10th Dec 2010, 05:38
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Iver...No you can go straight from 330 to 380. Whatever the 777-300 ER is doing now is what the 380 will do in the future. Commercial boys say no more t/arounds planned for at least 2 years on the 380. Vast majority of India and ME turns will remain 330 and 777 for a very long time.
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Old 10th Dec 2010, 06:18
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I think it's crap that EK has no regard for seniority but the fact is that they never have. Fleet transition or upgrade is simply luck of the draw depending on whatever asinine policies they have in place at that moment. There are plenty of 330/340 FOs that would kill to get on the 380 but can't due to the current policies that some idiot dreamed up. They are being bypassed by junior guys who meet those arbitrary requirements. Upgrade on the 777 is running about 3.5 years and will be down to 3 years very soon. 330/340 upgrade times are running at 4.5 years+. Should those 330/340 FOs get to upgrade onto the 777? A pure seniority system would say yes. Should senior 33/340 FOs be able to transfer to whatever aircraft fits their personal preference? Again, pure seniority system would say yes.

So, as previously said, don't expect too much sympathy from the short haul night turners. It's not about division but I didn't see any outrage from the rest of the group when the company was systematically destroying the quality of life on the 330/340 fleet. I didn't hear any voices of opposition to the arbitrary changes in upgrade and fleet transfer policies. So I'm sorry your diamond shoes are too tight but perhaps you'd find more support if any had been offered to fellow pilots before you needed it. It amazes me how pilots will bitch and moan about division and seniority when it affects them but are eerily silent when being vocal or standing together might adversly affect them in the short term.
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Old 10th Dec 2010, 07:29
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Dont get your hopes up about 777 upgrades coming down to 3 years, all this talk about 380 FO's being bypased and none about the 777. Have a quick look at the list and you will quickly see that most of the 777 FO's are about 4year and a few months and some less but that only because of by passing . One little word of advice is be prepared , you dont want to fail and have to fight to get back on course.
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Old 10th Dec 2010, 07:52
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Airbus FOs have been bypassed for at least 6yrs. Remember when the junior guys were sent to the Boeing for transition upgrade while the more senior fellas were taken off command course and delayed another year! What about all the Bus guys bypassed by the Boeing FOs? Search this forum and you will find lots and lots written on this subject from 2003/2004 at least.
The information is out there, but still they come and get surprised.
And don't be too sure about Boeing command times coming down to 3yrs. By the end of 2012 there are only 11 Boeing deliveries left, unless another order is given rather sharpish. Take a look at the seniority list and look at the ratio of Boeing to Airbus FOs hired in the last 4 yrs. I think the Boeing guys hired in the past two years have already missed out on a command spot, unless more orders happen, or the rules change. To add to that pain, they are still on the same basic pay as a guy joining in March 2011.
But don't listen to us. Come on over and join and be surprised when it happens to you.
An EK pilot will be sacked for making a missed approach at Manchester, but management types get promoted for running this cluster of HR.
I hope that changes are made to fix this badly thought out and grossly unfair upgrade policy. But until it somehow effects the EK bottomline I can't see that happening.

The Don
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Old 10th Dec 2010, 10:11
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Guys thinking of coming need to ask how many A/C retirements in the next 9 year compared to deliveries. TC said the fleet will be 250 by 2020. 150 new and 100 to retire, of that 100 to retire there is 49 330/340 and where do you think the rest come from? You guessed it 777.People need to ask these questions before they come, like Don said there is all sorts of info regarding this so there is no excuse to come here and bitch about after wards.On a possible good note ( maybe not ) don't worry things will change.
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