QR Cpt death on board
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May his soul rest in peace and the comfort of the Almighty be with his family.Let us believe that the airline and his colleagues did their best to save the life of a fellow aviator.But then, God decided to take our fellow aviator to an airfield where the weather is always fine , the runways as long as you want and the frills the best you can get.Good memories for a good man.
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Sorry for a slight thread drift, but...
If indeed there was nothing else to be done, despite the best efforts of crew/doctor assisting, then further factors come into play.
The relevant bodies assisting (whether that be QR Ops, doctor on board, Medlink) then consult as to where the most appropriate location to proceed should be. Of course the F/O now in command can make this decision, but imagine you have just lost your colleague. Of course you are going to ask for help to make this decision in such a stressful time and choose the best place for all now that (sadly) saving your colleague is not possible and no longer the priority.
Think that by going to KUL, with a replacement crew available, and possibly better facilities/ease of access to counselling/crisis teams (which QR would know) and also minimising delay to passengers (also stressed) and allowing the traumatised crew to go immediately to a hotel rather than waiting with delayed passengers, may indeed have been the best option.
All we know as outsiders for a fact is that people have lost a colleague, son, husband... so very sad at a young age and all we can hope for is that QR do the right thing by his family
If indeed there was nothing else to be done, despite the best efforts of crew/doctor assisting, then further factors come into play.
The relevant bodies assisting (whether that be QR Ops, doctor on board, Medlink) then consult as to where the most appropriate location to proceed should be. Of course the F/O now in command can make this decision, but imagine you have just lost your colleague. Of course you are going to ask for help to make this decision in such a stressful time and choose the best place for all now that (sadly) saving your colleague is not possible and no longer the priority.
Think that by going to KUL, with a replacement crew available, and possibly better facilities/ease of access to counselling/crisis teams (which QR would know) and also minimising delay to passengers (also stressed) and allowing the traumatised crew to go immediately to a hotel rather than waiting with delayed passengers, may indeed have been the best option.
All we know as outsiders for a fact is that people have lost a colleague, son, husband... so very sad at a young age and all we can hope for is that QR do the right thing by his family
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BB: definitely agree with you; considerations change after the "final breath" has been taken by a fellow human being.
But "The Peninsula" newspaper states:
"He reportedly suffered a heart attack roughly an hour after the flight had left Manila, and had had a light breakfast a little after take-off."
roughly 1hr into the flight from Manila to Doha you're roughly 250 NM east of Da Nang (Vietnam), thus 500NM west of the departure aerodrome Manila.
Distances:
Da Nang - Ho-Chi-Minh-City : 326NM
Da Nang - Hanoi : 328NM
Da Nang - Bangkok : 457NM
Da Nang - Hong Kong : 509NM
Da Nang - Kuala Lumpur : 866NM
May I assume that the F/O was heading for SGN in order to get medical care for his colleague and that he only continued to KUL because it was too late and operational considerations were again of higher priority?
I really hope that the QR culture of fear didn't stop the F/O from taking decisions without consulting the company! Never forget: after a heart attack, every minute counts!
But "The Peninsula" newspaper states:
"He reportedly suffered a heart attack roughly an hour after the flight had left Manila, and had had a light breakfast a little after take-off."
roughly 1hr into the flight from Manila to Doha you're roughly 250 NM east of Da Nang (Vietnam), thus 500NM west of the departure aerodrome Manila.
Distances:
Da Nang - Ho-Chi-Minh-City : 326NM
Da Nang - Hanoi : 328NM
Da Nang - Bangkok : 457NM
Da Nang - Hong Kong : 509NM
Da Nang - Kuala Lumpur : 866NM
May I assume that the F/O was heading for SGN in order to get medical care for his colleague and that he only continued to KUL because it was too late and operational considerations were again of higher priority?
I really hope that the QR culture of fear didn't stop the F/O from taking decisions without consulting the company! Never forget: after a heart attack, every minute counts!
Last edited by a330flyer; 17th Oct 2010 at 14:39. Reason: initially put SM iso NM
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Unfortunatley its everyman for himself in QR. The F/O staff number in the 18000,s was more worried about blowing his upgrade than saving the life of the Capt. Regardless he should have gone to the nearest suitable airport for the CapT, not the company. There is no doubt in my mind he was just think about himself, calling OCC when the Capt is incapacitated by means of a heart attack, is called cover your a$$ , PILOT INCAP is LAND ASAP, not call OCC.
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Do you know him personally to be able to deliver such a scathing remark? or did u just ASS-u-ME what had happened? It is very unfair to throw all these accusations at the FO which i see is really out of context. Having said that I do wonder what is the reason to only wait to divert to Kul after what happened an hour into the flight?
R.I.P to the departed Captain...
R.I.P to the departed Captain...
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Cant help but think WTF!
It is a sad enough story on its own while it has happened, all of you salivating over it just makes things even more painful.
Both F/O's on board did EXACTLY what they were supposed to be doing. Call a doctor and let him handle the medical aspect, call OCC to help assist in the decision and while doing all that, keep the flight safe.
They used all the resources they had, they kept their cool and took the best decision for all concerned.
After all: the poor Captain was declared dead on board so nobody could have helped the poor soul. Still there were two fully qualified pilots on board, one IRP, so they chose to divert to KL in all safety (Wx OK, multiple long RWYs, good support, STBY crew,...) and by doing so they caused the least amount of trouble for the 260 pax on board.
All was well thought over, handled calm and professional.
Pilot incapacitation is LAND ASAP in case only one qualified pilot is remaining, NOT in this case. And as he passed away unfortunately before the decision was taken, an instant diversion would not have been a good solution.
Both FO's have proven to be worth their weight in gold and showed some problem handling and decision making skills many of you could learn from!
It is a sad enough story on its own while it has happened, all of you salivating over it just makes things even more painful.
Both F/O's on board did EXACTLY what they were supposed to be doing. Call a doctor and let him handle the medical aspect, call OCC to help assist in the decision and while doing all that, keep the flight safe.
They used all the resources they had, they kept their cool and took the best decision for all concerned.
After all: the poor Captain was declared dead on board so nobody could have helped the poor soul. Still there were two fully qualified pilots on board, one IRP, so they chose to divert to KL in all safety (Wx OK, multiple long RWYs, good support, STBY crew,...) and by doing so they caused the least amount of trouble for the 260 pax on board.
All was well thought over, handled calm and professional.
Pilot incapacitation is LAND ASAP in case only one qualified pilot is remaining, NOT in this case. And as he passed away unfortunately before the decision was taken, an instant diversion would not have been a good solution.
Both FO's have proven to be worth their weight in gold and showed some problem handling and decision making skills many of you could learn from!
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Can’t agree more a330flyer, Fubaliera, I read the same, actually very seconds count in such a case, some here probably management trying to defend wrong stupid decision, diversion is must & immediate an even of unconscious, uncontrollable bleeding, hart attack, electric shock ……..etc.
if you think otherwise your decision-making quality is very poor and Reassessment is mandatory.
KUL was too far by all means, rescue & the wellbeing of the CP was dispatch second priority, crew avail was # 1.
What the hell are you talking about shneidertrophy,
its Human Life NOT number of engine remaining. I hope you are not the TCP or GMFO.
I suggest all Capt must include in their emergency briefing to instruct FO to LAND ASAP in an event of (CP) incapacitation.
diversion is must & immediate an even of unconscious, uncontrollable bleeding, hart attack, electric shock ……..etc. if you think otherwise your decision-making quality is very poor and Reassessment is mandatory.
KUL was too far by all means, rescue & the wellbeing of the CP was dispatch second priority, crew avail was # 1.
What the hell are you talking about shneidertrophy,
its Human Life NOT number of engine remaining. I hope you are not the TCP or GMFO.I suggest all Capt must include in their emergency briefing to instruct FO to LAND ASAP in an event of (CP) incapacitation.
Last edited by CI999; 17th Oct 2010 at 15:57.
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@ Schneidertrophy:
Thanks for all the info and the insight!
Knowing all this, things start to make sense.
I hope you understand that, being a pilot having flown said route x-times, the news report didn't exactly make sense to me...
Reading the report without knowing that our colleague had sadly been declared dead by a doctor right after his heart attack, I couldn't help thinking: "WTF was going on there..., why KUL".
Only question remaining: Why did QR refuse to comment?
Thanks for all the info and the insight!
Knowing all this, things start to make sense.
I hope you understand that, being a pilot having flown said route x-times, the news report didn't exactly make sense to me...
Reading the report without knowing that our colleague had sadly been declared dead by a doctor right after his heart attack, I couldn't help thinking: "WTF was going on there..., why KUL".
Only question remaining: Why did QR refuse to comment?
Last edited by a330flyer; 17th Oct 2010 at 16:55. Reason: spelling
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It was stated by an earlier poster that a doctor on board declared death, it seems a lot of you missed this point.
Until you know WHAT was said and done on board then please stop the finger pointing. Some of these posts border on libel and Pprune take it seriously so you better watch out.
Anyone with some common sense can see that this was not such a clear-cut situation as some of you seem to think it is. Until you have someone dying on your galley floor, you don't know what it's like so quit making assumptions about what happened.
Fubaliera, your post is disgusting & I have reported this rubbish to the moderator. Consider yourself lucky you don't get sued!
My 2 cents...
Until you know WHAT was said and done on board then please stop the finger pointing. Some of these posts border on libel and Pprune take it seriously so you better watch out.
Anyone with some common sense can see that this was not such a clear-cut situation as some of you seem to think it is. Until you have someone dying on your galley floor, you don't know what it's like so quit making assumptions about what happened.
Fubaliera, your post is disgusting & I have reported this rubbish to the moderator. Consider yourself lucky you don't get sued!
My 2 cents...
Last edited by Boomerang_Butt; 17th Oct 2010 at 19:17. Reason: correction
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CI999 U comment make me sick.
"I suggest all Capt. must include in their emergency briefing to instruct FO to LAND ASAP in an event of (CP) incapacitation"
U must be one of the stupid pilots that think you are a gift to the world. Just waiting for a situation to show it.
Quit sure that the F/O have saved u ash a couple of time.
Ajay was not like U.
Will be missing You Ajay
RIP
"I suggest all Capt. must include in their emergency briefing to instruct FO to LAND ASAP in an event of (CP) incapacitation"
U must be one of the stupid pilots that think you are a gift to the world. Just waiting for a situation to show it.
Quit sure that the F/O have saved u ash a couple of time.
Ajay was not like U.
Will be missing You Ajay
RIP
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Guys,
Rights and wrongs of the choice of diversion airport aside, can we PLEASE stop the horrible bickering here?
Imagine if Captain Ajay's family were to see this?
He seems to have been a popular and good guy. It would be nice if we could respect his memory.
Thanks
Rights and wrongs of the choice of diversion airport aside, can we PLEASE stop the horrible bickering here?
Imagine if Captain Ajay's family were to see this?
He seems to have been a popular and good guy. It would be nice if we could respect his memory.
Thanks
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Fubaliera
Your posts demonstrate a disturbing level of both ignorance and immaturity. If you can't take the criticism (which you deserve) for your original post, then stop making outrageous and unsubstantiated claims.
This is an open forum for people to discuss all issues, even the decisions that the crew made in such a sad and highly stressful situation as this. Whilst people can speculate and discuss the merits of various options, to castigate an individual crew member when you are not in possession of all the facts is a sad reflection of a supposed 'professional' pilot.
Not only this, but your attitude is an insult to a lost colleague and his family. For that, you should be thouroughly ashamed.
May you and others here think about that before this thread degenerates into another pathetic mud slinging contest for juveniles whos egos are bigger than their brains.
Your posts demonstrate a disturbing level of both ignorance and immaturity. If you can't take the criticism (which you deserve) for your original post, then stop making outrageous and unsubstantiated claims.
This is an open forum for people to discuss all issues, even the decisions that the crew made in such a sad and highly stressful situation as this. Whilst people can speculate and discuss the merits of various options, to castigate an individual crew member when you are not in possession of all the facts is a sad reflection of a supposed 'professional' pilot.
Not only this, but your attitude is an insult to a lost colleague and his family. For that, you should be thouroughly ashamed.
May you and others here think about that before this thread degenerates into another pathetic mud slinging contest for juveniles whos egos are bigger than their brains.
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It is hard to believe Ajay has gone and we would never share a cockpit together again. I’m grateful for the gift of his friendship. I miss him and hold his memories dear.
He was a true aviator in every sense of the word. A humble and mannered gentleman in every respect, he will be missed greatly by those who knew him.
Ajay has "Gone West" and left the rest of us to go on without him. Perhaps at times we will be influenced and guided when things in aviation aren't going exactly right and our flight path needs correction. Stop and think about what you have and try to look for calm skies always.
We are still bound to earth and Ajay is now flying to the west, toward the sunset because the sun has set on his life.
Fly on to the west, Ajay! I wish you fair winds and blue skies for this next leg of your journey.
Hajj Man
He was a true aviator in every sense of the word. A humble and mannered gentleman in every respect, he will be missed greatly by those who knew him.
Ajay has "Gone West" and left the rest of us to go on without him. Perhaps at times we will be influenced and guided when things in aviation aren't going exactly right and our flight path needs correction. Stop and think about what you have and try to look for calm skies always.
We are still bound to earth and Ajay is now flying to the west, toward the sunset because the sun has set on his life.
Fly on to the west, Ajay! I wish you fair winds and blue skies for this next leg of your journey.
Hajj Man
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I see no reason to invoke any moderation at this time; as sad as this event is, this is a forum for discussion and there has certainly been no libel committed.
If you do want to make any personal attacks please do so by Private Message to spare the rest of us from your vitriol.
I have to smile at the contributor who suggested that the pre-flight briefing include directions on what actions to take regarding a diversion in the event of the Captain's incapcitation - what a wonderful way to make long, superfluous briefings even longer and more superfluous.
Rest in Peace Ajay - from all accounts you passed away doing what you enjoyed most; it is most regretful that you did not have the opportunity to bid farewell to your loved ones.
4HP
If you do want to make any personal attacks please do so by Private Message to spare the rest of us from your vitriol.
I have to smile at the contributor who suggested that the pre-flight briefing include directions on what actions to take regarding a diversion in the event of the Captain's incapcitation - what a wonderful way to make long, superfluous briefings even longer and more superfluous.
Rest in Peace Ajay - from all accounts you passed away doing what you enjoyed most; it is most regretful that you did not have the opportunity to bid farewell to your loved ones.
4HP
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Hajj Man... I really do wish that more people spend time celebrating the life of Capt AK rather than talking about the decision of the crew.
Capt AK was a gem of a guy and a colleague who will be dearly missed. We all hope he rests in peace.
Capt AK was a gem of a guy and a colleague who will be dearly missed. We all hope he rests in peace.
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shiiiiiiit it s an emergency no!!!!!!!!!!!
So How come OCC can Interfere in the PIlot Decision
The A/C became single pilot OPS how can we play with 250 pax because of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
this is how is safety on QR?
Good Luck
So How come OCC can Interfere in the PIlot Decision
The A/C became single pilot OPS how can we play with 250 pax because of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
this is how is safety on QR?
Good Luck
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If you have a very sick captain the other crew should declare an emergency. "Grave and immediate danger to the aircraft or its crew or passengers"
With a deceased captain there's no emergency.
When you have two other qualified pilots the most senior one assumes command and then they calmly and in cooperation with the authorities and the company decide what action to take and where to land.
I thought that it was only the stupid journalists that believed that an aircraft without a captain would fall out of the sky. Obviously some of the pilots in this forum think the same? Or maybe you are not pilots?
RIP Captain
With a deceased captain there's no emergency.
When you have two other qualified pilots the most senior one assumes command and then they calmly and in cooperation with the authorities and the company decide what action to take and where to land.
I thought that it was only the stupid journalists that believed that an aircraft without a captain would fall out of the sky. Obviously some of the pilots in this forum think the same? Or maybe you are not pilots?
RIP Captain
Last edited by Patty747400; 19th Oct 2010 at 13:40.