ETIHAD's NEW Career Progression Plan
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ETIHAD's NEW Career Progression Plan
Trying to start a new thread for yet another discussion for all.To find out the truth or rumour behind this so called 'rumour'.
Heard on the line and also have seen it posted by someone in another thread that EY will soon rolling out a new career progression plan for all.
-All upgrades on 320
-All recruitment/new joining will be on 320 as well
-Everyone moves up the fleet according to seniority just like any other legacy carrier around the world.
Well guys, anyone with first hand? second hand? info very much appreciated. Let's keep the ball rolling!
Heard on the line and also have seen it posted by someone in another thread that EY will soon rolling out a new career progression plan for all.
-All upgrades on 320
-All recruitment/new joining will be on 320 as well
-Everyone moves up the fleet according to seniority just like any other legacy carrier around the world.
Well guys, anyone with first hand? second hand? info very much appreciated. Let's keep the ball rolling!
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They have been very, very clear that they do not want newly upgraded captains flying with the cadet pilots.
Upgrades are going 330 for 500 or so hours, then back to Mixed Fleet Fly (read: only fly) the 320. Current 330 captains are being forced to the 320 MFF. Direct entry captains are being hired.
These are the facts in spite of your rumors.
Upgrades are going 330 for 500 or so hours, then back to Mixed Fleet Fly (read: only fly) the 320. Current 330 captains are being forced to the 320 MFF. Direct entry captains are being hired.
These are the facts in spite of your rumors.
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No way in hell I'd go 320. I'd sooner stay on the 340 for a couple more years.
Especially in the face of the A320 turning into a low-cost department with the related lifestyle.
With all the broken promises they already gave (in fact: they never kept ANY promises), who knows if and when one would ever go back. For all we know, they might just suddenly take some DECs for the 330/340/777, and leave everyone else on the 320 forever.
The salary isn't that brilliant, and the 4th stripe not appealing enough for me to jeopardize my family!
If I want to fly four sectors per day (per night) for an average salary, I might as well go to Asia and get my life back.
Especially in the face of the A320 turning into a low-cost department with the related lifestyle.
With all the broken promises they already gave (in fact: they never kept ANY promises), who knows if and when one would ever go back. For all we know, they might just suddenly take some DECs for the 330/340/777, and leave everyone else on the 320 forever.
The salary isn't that brilliant, and the 4th stripe not appealing enough for me to jeopardize my family!
If I want to fly four sectors per day (per night) for an average salary, I might as well go to Asia and get my life back.
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you would stay less than 2 years on 320
and for those who don t want to take the upgrade on 320, they will leave the slot for people who are motivated to take it!!
It would be fair, if we all started up the same way. If, for example, everybody had started as a cadet with Etihad and had the same background.
But some guys came and joined on the 320, others came with a 330 rating, or with whatever else.
So what makes it fair to force everyone to go to the 320 for an upgrade; perhaps some of us have already had it before, and accepted a right seat on the Boeing or widebody Airbus instead?
Fair, from my POV, is if you get your command on whatever fleet you're on.
This is what WE were promised when we joined and the reason why we came. Now the management may screw us up the way it screwed you guys, but with what right do you claim OUR positions now?
Since we don't have any seniority-system here, and no union, you can't compare this place with other country's legacy carriers.
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We have a seniority system and we do follow it, at least for career progression wise. If just in case you got by passed, say for example a CCQ/MFF to 340, you can always write it in and fix things up. I have witnessed true case as such.
Yes, all upgrades on 330 and thereafter 500 hours AND 2 OPCs before moving to 320 for MINIMUM 2 years is the current policy. Everyone is aware of this for now. Question is how long will this policy stays? forever?
I need not remind you that we used to have upgrades on 320 for a very short period of time before they changed the policy again.
And also Etihad's plan to go all economy taken us all by shock, not that anyone had heard of it prior to it's implementation anyway. So this new rumour about career progression might as well be true.
We have to wait till RH comes back from leave it seems. Things MIGHT change. Till then it will always remain as a rumour.
There are definitely pros and cons with this new career progression plan. The list is long and the debate will be endless. However just to remove anymore anxiety among us, anyone with strong intel/info from within are greatly appreciated to share with us all.
Yes, all upgrades on 330 and thereafter 500 hours AND 2 OPCs before moving to 320 for MINIMUM 2 years is the current policy. Everyone is aware of this for now. Question is how long will this policy stays? forever?
I need not remind you that we used to have upgrades on 320 for a very short period of time before they changed the policy again.
And also Etihad's plan to go all economy taken us all by shock, not that anyone had heard of it prior to it's implementation anyway. So this new rumour about career progression might as well be true.
We have to wait till RH comes back from leave it seems. Things MIGHT change. Till then it will always remain as a rumour.
There are definitely pros and cons with this new career progression plan. The list is long and the debate will be endless. However just to remove anymore anxiety among us, anyone with strong intel/info from within are greatly appreciated to share with us all.
Last edited by king_fifi; 6th Aug 2010 at 11:55.
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King_fifi, you are pretty well informed. Heard the same recently. It was about time fixing our career progression scheme.
Nighfire, fairness starts and resides in one unique progression plan being the same to everybody, that's the only way to make a seniority list works.
Why is that? What difference is it gonna make to you apart that you won't have J meal left-overs?
Nighfire, fairness starts and resides in one unique progression plan being the same to everybody, that's the only way to make a seniority list works.
Originally Posted by king_fifi
Etihad's plan to go all economy taken us all by shock
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If they sold the fleet and got Dash 8's, yes i'd leave. Thats your only answer isn't it, leave? We do retain that right. Its not like there are no jobs out there, what ever your fleet.
As for salary is it really that bad? I dont like the way things change but as for the cash its not so bad.
I am not too sure about this divide between the fleets either, I've never see a widebody crew ignore a a narrow body crew, just doesn't sound true.
EY is not all roses, yes, but is it really that bad?
As for salary is it really that bad? I dont like the way things change but as for the cash its not so bad.
I am not too sure about this divide between the fleets either, I've never see a widebody crew ignore a a narrow body crew, just doesn't sound true.
EY is not all roses, yes, but is it really that bad?
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They do not even have to go as far as saying all new commands are on the A320.
K.I.S.S. is the answer. All they need is transparency and a seniority list.
All commands are advertised / awarded on seniority and come with a two year freeze.
If you do not want a A320 command do not bid for it and wait for your number to come up on the A330, A340 or whatever.
K.I.S.S. is the answer. All they need is transparency and a seniority list.
All commands are advertised / awarded on seniority and come with a two year freeze.
If you do not want a A320 command do not bid for it and wait for your number to come up on the A330, A340 or whatever.
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Suffering from short memory aren’t we?
Red_Z3, regarding upgrades there was never a change of policy. The A330 has always been the base aircraft. Due to consolidation measures and the luck of command vacancies back in April 2008 it was decided to upgrade on the A320 for a short while. It was a temporary solution to keep the upgrades going and the bidding system was introduced to make things fair. There was a choice of A320 quick command or stay as FO on the widebody until such a slot becomes available. Shortfuel for example that seems to agree with you was the first to take the quick command route and has been fairly enjoying his Captain salary and pay scales ever since just like the “unlucky” A320 DECs. Some of your colleagues had choosen to wait on the FO pay scale and finally after getting the fleet of their choice are forced to fly the A320 after 500 hours including B777 guys who opted for the A330/340. Meanwhile some of those “unlucky” early A320 captains seems to have priority for a transfer to the A340 as they will be the first to complete 2 years of MFF A320/A330 even thought they are junior to the ones forced to move to the A320 as we speak. I do agree with you, just stick to seniority and to consistent policies.
Last edited by John60; 6th Aug 2010 at 21:52.
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Is there a salary difference between the 320 and 330? Or is it just a rostering difference? I had been on the NB for a good 9 yrs before I got my upgrade so I believe I can offer a bit of insight...
Take all the time you can get on the NB short haul. It will be invaluable in your career. From handling to decision making doing things 5 times a day will give you a lot more experience then doing it 5 times a month.
Safe flying.
Take all the time you can get on the NB short haul. It will be invaluable in your career. From handling to decision making doing things 5 times a day will give you a lot more experience then doing it 5 times a month.
Safe flying.
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Originally Posted by grdproxinop
by placing the cadets on 330/340 aircraft as second officers, again like most other carriers throughout the world
There is no "issue" about cadets and new commanders on the same fleet...AIMS will take care of a no pairing rule for the first hundreds hours. all that's required is a sufficient number of experienced capt and f/o. Or somebody should tell me how most European carriers upgrade f/o and train cadets on the same fleet (AF, LH, BA...etc).
Originally Posted by John60
Shortfuel for example that seems to agree with you was the first to take the quick command route and has been fairly enjoying his Captain salary
Try again
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D-Day! Brace yourself!
Hi Starskate
CCQ- Cross crew Qualification
MFF- Mixed Fleet Flying either 320/330 and 330/340
MFF is only true for 330/340 as 320/330 in Etihad you only fly 320 and 330 perhaps once a month just to keep your recency.
Grdproxinop, so it's true then? Just awaiting for RH's approval?
Red_Z3 Great post!
CCQ- Cross crew Qualification
MFF- Mixed Fleet Flying either 320/330 and 330/340
MFF is only true for 330/340 as 320/330 in Etihad you only fly 320 and 330 perhaps once a month just to keep your recency.
Grdproxinop, so it's true then? Just awaiting for RH's approval?
Red_Z3 Great post!
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DJUGGLER:
Are you a 320 f/o???
I also agree that this should be the right career progression, but I understand that many 330 F/O will be disappointed because they expected to be upgraded on a wide body!
Many more resignation in the nearest future for EY???
Are you a 320 f/o???
I also agree that this should be the right career progression, but I understand that many 330 F/O will be disappointed because they expected to be upgraded on a wide body!
Many more resignation in the nearest future for EY???
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John60
Shortfuel for example that seems to agree with you was the first to take the quick command route and has been fairly enjoying his Captain salary
HA HA HA!! good one!
wouldn' t it be nice if it were true?
@ Dubaiforerever,
do you really think the company cares about disappointing people?
Are you that new in the company?
I don t think people would have an issue flying the 320 if the rosters were decent. most guys want to escape from the fleet, because they are forced to fly rosters that make them age quick and fly fatigue.
Some guys joined EY on the 320 whereas they could have been hired by other companies on widebody aircraft. they chose the 320 because when properly done, a narrowbody roster can yield way better quality of life. EY just need to get their sh*t together before the exodus happens.
Originally Posted by John60
Shortfuel for example that seems to agree with you was the first to take the quick command route and has been fairly enjoying his Captain salary
HA HA HA!! good one!
wouldn' t it be nice if it were true?
@ Dubaiforerever,
do you really think the company cares about disappointing people?
Are you that new in the company?
I don t think people would have an issue flying the 320 if the rosters were decent. most guys want to escape from the fleet, because they are forced to fly rosters that make them age quick and fly fatigue.
Some guys joined EY on the 320 whereas they could have been hired by other companies on widebody aircraft. they chose the 320 because when properly done, a narrowbody roster can yield way better quality of life. EY just need to get their sh*t together before the exodus happens.
Last edited by saviboy; 7th Aug 2010 at 07:22.
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Dubaiforever,
I do understand the frustrations this shift of policy will bring to the 330/340 fo's aspiring to get their widebody command. But the dynamics in this business are just far too complex for us to control and dictate at our own terms. I'm in the widebody as well, and the good lifestyle and the prospects of getting my widebody command which by my own count will come next year may just be too painful to give up, but I have reached that level of maturity (or stupidity) to just take things as they are, esp if you want to survive long in this business.
We are still left with three options though:
1. Stay in the widebody and keep that lifestyle with no guarantees of when widebody slots will open up again
2. Take the narrowbody command and wait for MFF to A330 (if it ever comes)
3. a. Leave
b. Stay
Remember it's your life, it's your career, and it's your responsibility, so choose wisely. If you ask me which option/s I'll take, that one I'll keep to myself. Goodluck!
I do understand the frustrations this shift of policy will bring to the 330/340 fo's aspiring to get their widebody command. But the dynamics in this business are just far too complex for us to control and dictate at our own terms. I'm in the widebody as well, and the good lifestyle and the prospects of getting my widebody command which by my own count will come next year may just be too painful to give up, but I have reached that level of maturity (or stupidity) to just take things as they are, esp if you want to survive long in this business.
We are still left with three options though:
1. Stay in the widebody and keep that lifestyle with no guarantees of when widebody slots will open up again
2. Take the narrowbody command and wait for MFF to A330 (if it ever comes)
3. a. Leave
b. Stay
Remember it's your life, it's your career, and it's your responsibility, so choose wisely. If you ask me which option/s I'll take, that one I'll keep to myself. Goodluck!