Wikiposts
Search
Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

Arabian Jets

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 26th Aug 2011, 16:10
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Between a Rock and a Hard Spot
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Arabianknights, excellent points. AJ is clearly conducting charters without a AOC using N registered aircraft and FAA licensed pilots.

Apparently most, if not all, of the pilots are aware of this, thus are knowingly and willfully conducting illegal charters = criminal intent.

Their certificates are in jeopardy at a minimum, and as the post above indicates, if there is a mishap criminal prosecution in addition to certificate revocation are very possible.

Without an AOC the FAA has no jurisdiction over AJ, only the pilots because they hold FAA certificates. Anyone continuing to conduct illegal charters for AJ is a chump.

Is the money really worth it?
HEMS driver is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2011, 20:34
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Sandbox
Age: 24
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Arabian Jets

HEMS Driver you are correct. Besides FAA having jurisdiction over the pilot, FAA is also responsible for oversight of the aircraft itself since it is 'N' registered. An 'N' registered aircraft responsible for a major safety violation, rules violation (such as not having an AOC) or crash in a foreign jurisdiction most likely will trigger that foreign government to contact the US FAA for corrective action.
ARABIANKNIGHTS is offline  
Old 27th Aug 2011, 14:04
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CO
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
happens everywhere in the MENA region. My last operation advertised openly with EMT jets so can't see Arabian jets getting screwed for it.
FAL50 is offline  
Old 27th Aug 2011, 16:09
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Sandbox
Age: 24
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Arabian Jets

FAL50 you are most likely correct. They probably will get away with it until.......somebody gets hurt. That's when Arabian Jets management throws everybody under the bus.
ARABIANKNIGHTS is offline  
Old 27th Aug 2011, 17:00
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: MCO (occasionally)
Posts: 387
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
This sort of thing chartering happens everywhere guys. It's mostly impossible to get caught unless everyone and everything is within the US, outside they care little.

I'm more worried about getting paid up by the company, from what I gather, Arabian Jets does not have a good track record here. I applied for a posting a few months ago, but heard nothing.

Maybe I'm better off where I am? (no bed of roses this)

FR
FrankR is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2011, 17:58
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Sandbox
Age: 24
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Arabian Jets

FrankR, I have not been paid for my services with Arabian Jets and have had several emails from guys who currently work for the company and from guys recently fired or who have quit. No one has been paid.

Arabian Jets supposedly has a contract with the Saudi government that expires this month, the Saudi government is not going to renew the contract. Many people think the company will not last past contract termination.

What Arabian Jets is doing is simple. Bring on new pilots, do not pay them, the pilots quit or are fired for something minor, post ad on climbto350, repeat.

Anas Reyes the CEO of Arabian Jets was recently trying to take over the FBO services in Riyadh. He failed. This is where supposedly a lot of the company money has gone.
ARABIANKNIGHTS is offline  
Old 29th Aug 2011, 04:01
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Sandbox
Age: 24
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Arabian Jets

Here is a link:


Prince Turki Bin Nasser abandons crew - Female First
ARABIANKNIGHTS is offline  
Old 4th Sep 2011, 18:25
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Where the Money Takes Me
Posts: 947
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Apparently, money all spent - the Big Man won´t inject any more. Read into that what you will.
LGW Vulture is offline  
Old 4th Sep 2011, 20:09
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: MCO (occasionally)
Posts: 387
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So has Arabian Jets quit flying altogether, or just quit paying crew and vendors? I just saw another advert on 350 today...
FrankR is offline  
Old 5th Sep 2011, 13:25
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CO
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
LGW Vulture. what is your source of information there?


Arabianknights, you say
Arabian Jets supposedly has a contract with the Saudi government that expires this month
so supposedly, being the operative word. So you don't actually know the details of the contract. You sound like a pissed employee that has been let go and trying to stir up trouble?

How long did you manage to stay with Arabian Jets, a long time? if so then why did you stay?

Did you also operate the illegal charters for a long time?
Was you happy to do that while the salary rolled in?
FAL50 is offline  
Old 5th Sep 2011, 18:10
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: MCO (occasionally)
Posts: 387
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hey Fal50,

Attacking a guy for needing a job and collecting his stipend whilst doing what he is told is hitting below the belt line don't you think?

... And it certainly doesn't diminish all the accusations of non payment, firing without cause, and chartering without an AOC that seem to be the modus operandi at Arab Jets does it?

Your point is well taken however, most all this thread is rife with complaints by former employees who were let go.

FR
FrankR is offline  
Old 5th Sep 2011, 22:25
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CO
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
That is not attacking.... I'm purely saying a lot of these employees are happy to work for the company then once they are fired they complain about everything- illegal charters, no medical.

Do you think these pilots ever said they are not prepared to take the charter? No, they carry on with it like everyone else in the ME and then call the pilots that are still working for Arabian Jets chumps for doing so. No doubt if they return to the ME with another operator they'll be doing exactly the same illegal charters and if they were to be fired they'd know not to leave Saudi without their monies owed.

Perhaps ARABIAN KNIGHTS should be seeking legal advice first rather than ranting on PPRuNe.

That is all I am saying.
FAL50 is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2011, 18:26
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thumbs down Yep, all true

All: I can attest to all the above being accurate as far as the companies lack of integrity. As for myself I found the work challenging and personally rewarding from a professional pilot point of view. As to the AJ business model, it is unlike anything I have witnessed in the western world. Accept all comments on this forum as accurate. If working for AJ obtain as much knowledge as one can for professional advancement, accept a position to remain financially a float, depart on your terms with as little financial loss as possible. And never never use your personal funds to pay for hotels or other operating expenses. Best of luck to you all seeking employment.
Papypilot is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2011, 11:55
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Hobe Sound, FL
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
ARABIAN JETS - AJ

FAL50,

Don't know where you get your information but you are full of crap. As as former AJ pilot I can assure you some of us have morals, and do play by the rules. YES! I did stand up to AJ when I was finally able to prove they were dispatching us as Part 91 while they were collecting money for the flight. My reward for being honest, trying to play by the rules was to get terminated. Yes, I'm a pissed off former employee, but unlike your BS accusation I did stand up to AJ and refuse to fly charters. A good many of our flights were for the Saudi owner of the aircraft and this was OK. When hired I was told the company did have a certificate, but the GIV was not on the certificate yet. I soon learned there is a lot of truth to the old saying: "if their lips are moving they are lieing."

Most of us were not sure if we were being chartered or not. Our passengers would be members of the Royal family and our Chief Pilot always assured us they were friends of the owner and there was not money being spent for charters. According to the CP this was very common in Saudi to do favors for ones friends. This was my first time to work in this country so I was unaware just how devious these folks are.

After working their for about three months, things just didn't seem to add up. For instance a passenger asks you: "who owns this aircraft?" After being instructed not to interact with the passengers, a quick call to the office to ask WTF? is going on was answered by the CP as: Oh, your passenger is looking to buy the aircraft and this is a demo trip"???

Here's another example of confusion. Getting ready to go to the aircraft for a flight and CP says not to go yet as passengers haven't paid???????? Again my question to OPS is WTF? I was told the passengers were paying the "expenses" for the trip.

These games went on for months with myself not knowing for sure what was going on. Repeated questions to the CP pilot were always answered with: NO - you are not flying charters, these are all trips for the Doctor who owned the aircraft.

Shortly before my last rotation home for time off, I had a Saudi come to the jet on the ramp and want to look over the jet. I did not know who he was and we were getting ready for a trip. A quick call to the office and I was told to allow him to look at the aircraft.

As he deplaned and the passengers arrived I asked about his interest in the jet and was handed his business card and he told me he was a charter broker and this trip was booked by him for the passengers. Again the company denied any charter.

When I confronted the CP with the business card and the details, the answer changed for the first time. Now the answer was, you will never be checked by the FAA over here or in Europe but he said the most important thing was the FAA could never track the money so I had nothing to worry about. I told him they were charters and I did not fly charters.

If you noticed all communication was with CP as we had no DO. When we did get a DO he lasted two days. MY guess is he was too honest and refused to drink the Kool Aid.

There are pilots that like to stick their heads in the sand and pretend nothing is wrong, there are pilots who are afraid to rock the boat, and their are pilots who will tell you: "you don't respect the culture!" because you won't accept the company lies and BS!

I'm not one of those people. After finding proof of problems, I tried to work them out with the company. AJ does not want honest pilots, AJ does not want good people. I let every pilot at AJ know what I found out. Their decisions are their own.

As with many pilots I paid for my training, I worked hard for my certificate and I value my honor and integrity. I will not operate illegally and I don't appreciate someone who does not know me saying I was willing to fly illegal for compensation. I recommend you get your facts straight.
mizarlee is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2011, 08:24
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Cannes
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Arabian Jets -- No place to Work

Hey Fal50, Perhaps the former pilots never said anything because the act of "saying something" is the same day you get fired???

Here is another FACT. I worked for the company until a short time ago, and left with the promise that my last paycheck and expenses would be paid within the month. Guess what, still no check! I bet you are going to say they aren't deadbeats, it must be an accounting error, or a slip up. Riiigghhtt!

It's true, AJ fires people for no reason other than to avoid paying them or to cover up their own management bungling and mistakes. Sure, every company needs to get rid of a bad apple, but AJ has fired 20 +/- expat pilots since the beginning of the year (out of a work force of less than 20 pilots). They haven't fired a single Arab office worker in that time however (they must have 30).

Second, they make it hard for every pilot who is there to exist. They do this by having untrained and non-professionals making every decision from flight planning, to handling, to hotel bookings.

Third, while I was there, we changed handlers several times. Why? because AJ had not paid their bills! Fact, the G-IV had a tug parked in front of it in Luton for non-payment.

There are two sides to many arguments, but here, it's deception, firing for no reason but to cover up management mistakes, and non payment of legitimate bills.

The only guy sticking up for them on this thread is a low time (no prior jet) guy who got upgraded. He's happy to be there, so he's drinking the kool-aid by the gallon.

Now sure, I could go on, but you can't refute anything said, irregardless of the motive for saying it.
DC3Dan is offline  
Old 23rd Sep 2011, 18:33
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: ME
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Exclamation Amazing ...! But enough ...

Monitoring the chatter for a while now, as a neutral observer ( Disclosure: having previously conducted some HR consulting work for the company); i must say how amazing is the talent of disgruntled employees to color facts. it takes talent, no doubt.

i have worked with the company executive management and owners for a short time. They are shrude and aggressive business minded individuals, but i have always admired one quality about them: integrity.

Can any previous employee deny that he or she have always been payed their salaries on time? Every time? is this the sign of a company in trouble?

I thought i understood some of you being bitter about getting fired, but now i see why (being fired that is...). A true and morally anchored pilot is a balanced and just professional, not some hypocrite who will go on and on about illegalities while lacking the decency to at least admit the advantages and benefits enjoyed during employment with the company.

I have advised management to apply some crew benefit adjustments (like the 2 months on -1 month off rotation schedule change to full time) but guess what: they refused.

if there is anything that a pure blooded aviator cannot stand, is dishonesty, hypocracy and lies.

quit whining and Man up ...!!
spacenavigator is offline  
Old 24th Sep 2011, 00:20
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Global
Posts: 460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Space Nav......

Spoken like a true management blow in........

i have worked with the company executive management and owners for a short time
and next.....

I have advised management to apply some crew benefit adjustments (like the 2 months on -1 month off rotation schedule change to full time)
I hope you enjoyed your short stay in the kingdom, in a 5 star hotel before you returned to your own planet..... business class of course.....

Quite seriously.... what planet are you from?????

Oh and it bet it was not during Ramadan..... or Christmas..... or..... oh forget it.

Rightly or wrongly, you have just proved the ethos, that management bring in advisers who have no grasp of the reality of the work force and the conditions they face. You tell them everything is good, and show them "synergies" and "benefits" and "best practice methodology" then get on a plane and go. All without any understanding of the business, the people or the market.

You have applied a mostly theoretical model developed in a modern, open society based upon years of learning.... to a society where the king combines legislative, executive, and judicial functions and royal decrees form the basis of the country's legislation and where it is currently the year 1432.

Thank you for proving the theory, you sir are a champion of your profession.

either that...... or its one of the best wind-up's i have seen here in a long time
international hog driver is offline  
Old 24th Sep 2011, 02:30
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Cannes
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Amazing ...! But enough ... Of Your BS Mr. Space Nav

First off, AJ has never employed "consultants" ... so who are you really?

Your Quote 1:
i have worked with the company executive management and owners for a short time. They are shrude and aggressive business minded individuals, but i have always admired one quality about them: integrity.

... You are kidding, right? These guys have no integrety, and are not shrude. They have a gun to your head at all times, treat you poorly, (even compared to other crappy Arab management companies), and fire you to bring in fresh meat. Why has no one lasted more than 4 months there (Except for the over paid office staff)???

Your Quote 2:
I have advised management to apply some crew benefit adjustments (like the 2 months on -1 month off rotation schedule change to full time) but guess what: they refused.

... A change to full time from rotation would be a change for the better??? WHich planet are you from, or are you a Saudi shill??

Your Quote 3:
if there is anything that a pure blooded aviator cannot stand, is dishonesty, hypocracy and lies.

... You said you were a consultant, so you are obviously NOT any kind of aviator. If you were, they would have fired you too.

Your Quote 4:
quit whining and Man up ...!!
... My point exactly, Arabian Jets management hides and never fixes the obvious, they just blame then fire the expats and bring in a new batch of guys desperate for a job.

Interested to hear your thoughts Mr. Space man
DC3Dan is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2011, 23:15
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I am a former pilot at AJ. I chocked AJ up as a great experience and I am glad I did it. However, it was the worst managed company I have ever worked for and I am still owed money. After reading all of the posts I can say that everything negative is true. You pilots posting about AJ's problems are doing a great service for other Expats who may be considering AJ for employment.

Now to the other pilots and the HR puke that posted. What do you gain by getting on here and defending AJ??? The truth is we weren't paid, we received no health benefits, were lied to daily regarding everything from maintenance to operations and they did not honor the contract. Yes I said contract. I read previously where someone posted about the contract and was attacked... Yes the offer letter stated that if I accepted this agreement then it should be considered a contract. (I still have it) So FrankR and B200Drvr please get all your facts straight before you insinuate that someone is special or needs drug tested.

Now back to the other guys defending AJ's complete and total lack of respect for their expat pilots. Again, what do you gain? Is this so you can go into the office with a printed copy and say see I am on your side? You think they care about you? You too will one day be on the receiving end of AJ's Do Not Pay plan. Oh and the last word I would ever use in a sentence to describe AJ's management is Integrity.

Anyone considering employment please know with the exception of a few pilots the majority of us are stilled owed money and in my personal opinion we will never be paid. Good luck to all those affected by AJ's immoral and inexcusable business practices.
UncleBuck is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2011, 03:39
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Hobe Sound, FL
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
ARABIAN JETS - BEWARE

SPACE NAVIAGATOR?

So who are you really? The CEO at AJ or one of the office flunkies?

Here's an answer to your question. As a former employer, I was paid ontime only one time in 7 months. Pay was always late. We were told straight up by the office employees that the company was out of money and they had to wait until the CEO begged the aircraft owners and company owners for more money to get us paid.

Of course the CFO never admitted to anything but there was one member of the office who liked to pass the truth on to us Infadels.

INTEGRITY does not exist with the leaders at AJ. The only integrity I saw at that place was among people born west of 30W.

I think you need to change your name to SPACE CADET!
mizarlee is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.