8 DEC's interviewed at EK last week
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Suspension city
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
8 DEC's interviewed at EK last week
As the title says.
I guess it’s all down to the bottom dollar...
Keep the FO in the seat (motivated) for a further only 5 years and issue him/her with a dummy at sign on , just to help look after the boss for the next 3 days or so.
Don't get me wrong about the whole DEC thing. I'd one day hopefully be in the same position to apply for a DEC job but hey who we kidding here. Some guys (DEC's) are seriously lacking in many departments when it comes to long haul wide body ops, but considering that the previous job didn't develop that side of their career, they are not to be blamed but management possibly is.
Better get a new set of stripes as these suckers are getting pretty dull and I see myself wearing them for some time to come.
Off to the uniform store then.
I guess it’s all down to the bottom dollar...
Keep the FO in the seat (motivated) for a further only 5 years and issue him/her with a dummy at sign on , just to help look after the boss for the next 3 days or so.
Don't get me wrong about the whole DEC thing. I'd one day hopefully be in the same position to apply for a DEC job but hey who we kidding here. Some guys (DEC's) are seriously lacking in many departments when it comes to long haul wide body ops, but considering that the previous job didn't develop that side of their career, they are not to be blamed but management possibly is.
Better get a new set of stripes as these suckers are getting pretty dull and I see myself wearing them for some time to come.
Off to the uniform store then.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dubai
Age: 54
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DECs should never be an option and especially now at Emirates. How much longer are the good FOs going have to wait to get their commands and how much babysitting is going to be going on in the cockpits?
Any pilot applying to EK should be fully aware of how the mangement treats its pilots. This is just the most recent example.
Any pilot applying to EK should be fully aware of how the mangement treats its pilots. This is just the most recent example.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: HON121º/14 NM
Posts: 664
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It happens in lots of airlines. I've lost count of the number of DECs I've had to baby sit in a low cost airline. I asked the Chief Pilot if he'd made me into a training FO once, and if was supposed to get a pay rise. At least he didn't flannel, and treated my tongue in cheek enquiry to the answer it deserved! I wouldn't expect the same at Emirates.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: dubai
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes it happens at some airlines but there is no other airline with so many qualified and capable F/O's who are being bypassed. From an experience and suitability standpoint, there never has been a need for DEC's at Emirates..... the policy is simply a cost savings measure! Nowadays though, I concede that since fewer suitable F/O's are opting for EK and we are so far behind the power curve when it comes to crewing the aircraft, DEC's are becoming the only option.
Many of us have been predicting a reinstatement of hiring a large amount of DECs and yes, every single pilot considering this airline should have considered this fact but all of us, even those not affected by this policy should be compassionate towards those affected. This is a very sad turn of events for the F/O's already here and those about to join. I have stated on many occasions to prospective pilots coming to EK, ''watch out for a massive increase in DECs and when it happens, don't come crying to the rest of us.'' But now that it appears to be happening again, I can't help but sympathize with my colleagues, regardless of how much denial they were experiencing when they signed on the dotted line.
The DEC policy at EK has always been a bad option simply because we have always had an abundance of suitable F/O's ready to upgrade. It blatantly exposes our managements view regarding our value to the company and demonstrates that they just don't care about us.
This tendency towards DEC's is far worse for many pilots at EK, than the vast assortment of other negative changes recently.
Nothing against those pilots who are about to join as DEC's, most of us would do the same, but lets be honest. Many DEC's will be less capable, less knowledgeable and less personable (Capt America springs to mind), than most of the F/O's with whom I fly on a daily basis.
If you think this airline has finally sunk to the bottom of the sludge pool when it comes to its treatment of employees, they will surely find yet another way to force us to lower our expectations. The situation here has become laughable in many respects.
ps. I cannot imagine anyone from a decent place, even if they are unemployed at the moment, considering joining this operation. 6 years to upgrade?? wow, it might be 10 now!
Many of us have been predicting a reinstatement of hiring a large amount of DECs and yes, every single pilot considering this airline should have considered this fact but all of us, even those not affected by this policy should be compassionate towards those affected. This is a very sad turn of events for the F/O's already here and those about to join. I have stated on many occasions to prospective pilots coming to EK, ''watch out for a massive increase in DECs and when it happens, don't come crying to the rest of us.'' But now that it appears to be happening again, I can't help but sympathize with my colleagues, regardless of how much denial they were experiencing when they signed on the dotted line.
The DEC policy at EK has always been a bad option simply because we have always had an abundance of suitable F/O's ready to upgrade. It blatantly exposes our managements view regarding our value to the company and demonstrates that they just don't care about us.
This tendency towards DEC's is far worse for many pilots at EK, than the vast assortment of other negative changes recently.
Nothing against those pilots who are about to join as DEC's, most of us would do the same, but lets be honest. Many DEC's will be less capable, less knowledgeable and less personable (Capt America springs to mind), than most of the F/O's with whom I fly on a daily basis.
If you think this airline has finally sunk to the bottom of the sludge pool when it comes to its treatment of employees, they will surely find yet another way to force us to lower our expectations. The situation here has become laughable in many respects.
ps. I cannot imagine anyone from a decent place, even if they are unemployed at the moment, considering joining this operation. 6 years to upgrade?? wow, it might be 10 now!
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: HON121º/14 NM
Posts: 664
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EK is short of pilots and they will hire anybody they can get
More seriously recruiting DECs in any numbers doesn't do much for the airline. SFOs feel bypassed, and let down, and loyalty to the company is eroded. The DECs are usually looking for temporary employment until their own country's economy recovers then they bang out again, as do the SFOs, and the airline is left with a lower quality of crew than it could have with a bit of foresight, and strategic planning. Strategic planning isn't something that airlines have in abundance the world over...
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Airplane
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do not be surprised when this airline becomes like Singapore Airlines. Eventually all Captains will be hired as Captains and all First Officers will be hired as First Officers with no chance of upgrade. This will not apply to the Local Staff. The painful part is going to be when they make the transition. There will be a huge number of First Officers who suddenly realize they will never be upgraded. The transition will begin when the airline approaches the end of its growth.
Just a prediction. Time will tell. You can bet your bottom dollar, if it will save the company money they will do it in a heartbeat. They do not care about the humans who keep the airline going.
7
Just a prediction. Time will tell. You can bet your bottom dollar, if it will save the company money they will do it in a heartbeat. They do not care about the humans who keep the airline going.
7
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Between the sheets
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not a bean counter, but can someone explain how it saves the company money to hire DEC's rather than upgrade senior FO's and hiring new FO's to replace them?
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
Posts: 2,777
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1 upgrade course + 2 new hire FO full courses
DEC 1 quick transtition + 1 Fo new hire
When explanding if you have 10 capts and 10 fo and need 15 you will upgrade 5 fo's leaving you with 5 and needing 15
DEC 1 quick transtition + 1 Fo new hire
When explanding if you have 10 capts and 10 fo and need 15 you will upgrade 5 fo's leaving you with 5 and needing 15
Join Date: May 2008
Location: pit
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The explanation is quite simple:
As the FO pool dries out because the T&Cs are now known to be crap and the AAR intimidation campaign leaves its stinkin' marks, and only the desperate and unemployed FOs apply, but the company desperately needs more pilots, they look for DECs. There are much more on the market, especially those stuck on single aisle jets for another century. The shiny twin aisles at EK have a huge appeal and the pprune-deaf and blind join. FOs at EK get pi$$ed due to their being stuck on the right seat, they leave, making the hole on the right even bigger. Upgrades are therefore not possible, and even more DECs are necessary.
I predict a wave of downgradings in the near future. If you consider the complete bs punishment mentality setting in (the last couple of buddies I flew with, right or left, have almost ALL had some sort of warning on their record, for the very slightest little bs they can come up with), it is obvious that the ever more lacking numbers on the rhs will be filled with disciplined captains. Clever, clever! Watch your back now.
As the FO pool dries out because the T&Cs are now known to be crap and the AAR intimidation campaign leaves its stinkin' marks, and only the desperate and unemployed FOs apply, but the company desperately needs more pilots, they look for DECs. There are much more on the market, especially those stuck on single aisle jets for another century. The shiny twin aisles at EK have a huge appeal and the pprune-deaf and blind join. FOs at EK get pi$$ed due to their being stuck on the right seat, they leave, making the hole on the right even bigger. Upgrades are therefore not possible, and even more DECs are necessary.
I predict a wave of downgradings in the near future. If you consider the complete bs punishment mentality setting in (the last couple of buddies I flew with, right or left, have almost ALL had some sort of warning on their record, for the very slightest little bs they can come up with), it is obvious that the ever more lacking numbers on the rhs will be filled with disciplined captains. Clever, clever! Watch your back now.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Uptown
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It happened in CX, EY, SQ, QR and most of major airlines is Asia as well...............
No different and there is nothing special in EK as far as bean counters are concerned ...........
Pilot is just a number .........
VR
No different and there is nothing special in EK as far as bean counters are concerned ...........
Pilot is just a number .........
VR
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Gulf playing Golf
Posts: 1,141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
wet vee 2..
Whoooa cowboy! hold your horses. Not very nice thoughts you have about the ethics in the Training Dept... We dont do that!!
DEC is a part of any expat airline. If you didnt know that, then you didnt do your homework.
If someone being recruited today believes in a 4 year command, well then that would imply a doubling of the fleet. Hardly possible in these times..
Accept that there will be DEC and self propelled goal posts...this is the middle east.
Payscale
Whoooa cowboy! hold your horses. Not very nice thoughts you have about the ethics in the Training Dept... We dont do that!!
DEC is a part of any expat airline. If you didnt know that, then you didnt do your homework.
If someone being recruited today believes in a 4 year command, well then that would imply a doubling of the fleet. Hardly possible in these times..
Accept that there will be DEC and self propelled goal posts...this is the middle east.
Payscale
Good discussion but no DECs were interviewed last week!
After all, we just did three pages on someone NOT being disciplined for carrying extra fuel...
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hotel
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EK:s website says you need at least 1500 hours on 330/340 or 777 to be considered for DEC so I'm surprised by these comments:
"Some guys (DEC's) are seriously lacking in many departments when it comes to long haul wide body ops, but considering that the previous job didn't develop that side of their career"
"...they look for DECs. There are much more on the market, especially those stuck on single aisle jets for another century."
Anyone cares to explain?
I have 4000+ command hours international operations on the 747-400 and have not been offered an interview so I don't think they are as desperate as some of you might believe. (After learning here about the conditions you operate under I'm not sure I would want the job even if I could).
"Some guys (DEC's) are seriously lacking in many departments when it comes to long haul wide body ops, but considering that the previous job didn't develop that side of their career"
"...they look for DECs. There are much more on the market, especially those stuck on single aisle jets for another century."
Anyone cares to explain?
I have 4000+ command hours international operations on the 747-400 and have not been offered an interview so I don't think they are as desperate as some of you might believe. (After learning here about the conditions you operate under I'm not sure I would want the job even if I could).
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: UAE
Posts: 1,026
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Patty, they didn't used to be that bothered about time on an Emirates type. We had DECs joining who had only ever flown a 737 around Europe. Some of the ones without longhaul experience struggled a bit in some of the more "interesting" places we operate into.