EK Weekly update
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: AUSTRALIA - CHINA STHN
Age: 59
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Yeah that line was a bit unneccesary and child like.
And now we are taxying too fast as well... is the limit not 30 in a straight line and ten in a turn... or faster if back tracking.?? Not sure but dragging the brakes to keep the speed down surely wears the brakes more than just letting the beast find its own natural speed?
In a previous life I was told that if you had any accident taxying you were at fault... so not sure that speed has anything to do with the level of sh#t you are in if you run into something!
Maybe I will take my own sleeping bag - but thats right.... I forgot not allowed to carry a bag for it....back pack pack or what ever..including staying in PJs up in the flight deck...
One of the guys a while ago used to fly around with his hat on ... for a joke...of course...
W
And now we are taxying too fast as well... is the limit not 30 in a straight line and ten in a turn... or faster if back tracking.?? Not sure but dragging the brakes to keep the speed down surely wears the brakes more than just letting the beast find its own natural speed?
In a previous life I was told that if you had any accident taxying you were at fault... so not sure that speed has anything to do with the level of sh#t you are in if you run into something!
Maybe I will take my own sleeping bag - but thats right.... I forgot not allowed to carry a bag for it....back pack pack or what ever..including staying in PJs up in the flight deck...
One of the guys a while ago used to fly around with his hat on ... for a joke...of course...
W
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: In the Sand Pit
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"there are those pilots who have legitimately questioned us in the Recurrent Training Wash-up meetings regarding any management decisions on improvements to pay or annual bonus this year. At this point it would be very premature for us to speculate on either"
So please guys, continue to save fuel because we in management have very very deep pockets, and only when they get full you can may be receive a couple of peanuts if you say plizzzzz !!!
So please guys, continue to save fuel because we in management have very very deep pockets, and only when they get full you can may be receive a couple of peanuts if you say plizzzzz !!!
Woodja,
I agree about the Blankets!!
Nicking a matress from a vacent FC cabing makes both the seat and the CRC much more bearable during a West-Coast flight. If we can't take one, how about provinding us with one?
As to Taxi speed, if ELOM is showing atrend towards somthing unsafe, telling us and asking we keep on eye on it is exactley how it should work, rather than pulling people, making up more rules etc. etc. so I actually think that was fair enough.
Starry eyed optimist here, but AT LEAST the last two updates have included the "T" word, Thank you!! Flyinbg are arses off, it is a baby step in the right direction to get some tiny bit of appreciation rather than another corporate bolocking!!
I agree about the Blankets!!
Nicking a matress from a vacent FC cabing makes both the seat and the CRC much more bearable during a West-Coast flight. If we can't take one, how about provinding us with one?
As to Taxi speed, if ELOM is showing atrend towards somthing unsafe, telling us and asking we keep on eye on it is exactley how it should work, rather than pulling people, making up more rules etc. etc. so I actually think that was fair enough.
Starry eyed optimist here, but AT LEAST the last two updates have included the "T" word, Thank you!! Flyinbg are arses off, it is a baby step in the right direction to get some tiny bit of appreciation rather than another corporate bolocking!!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Retired
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When are we to be rid of this idiot? His thanks followed in the next paragraph by a threat just highlights his insincerity. I am surprised that we didn't have another plagiarised summary of the state of the world airline industry followed by a note as to how lucky we are to have a job. Be gone, please..you have long overstayed your welcome, now you are just irritating.
Last edited by Dirigible; 3rd Apr 2010 at 13:13. Reason: syntax
Join Date: Apr 1999
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Controlled Crew Rest Proceedure
We have an authorised proceedure for mitigating the huge fatigue involved in this job, called controlled crew rest. But how dare you expect to have pillows to enable you to take this mitigation if the flight is full!!
We should have two pillows and blankets provided on the flight deck for this procedure so that controlled crew rest can be adequately utilised regardless of whether the flight is full or empty.
Surely the GCAA approval of variations must have taken into consideration the use of this proceedure to allow these extremes of duty times for two crew operations!
I've always thought that it must look dreadful to any passengers who observe the flight attendants taking an armful of pillows and blankets to the flight deck. I am sure they'd be mortified to think that the crew are sleeping up the front! Best to avoid this by having these items on the flight deck before passengers board the aircraft, imho.
We should have two pillows and blankets provided on the flight deck for this procedure so that controlled crew rest can be adequately utilised regardless of whether the flight is full or empty.
Surely the GCAA approval of variations must have taken into consideration the use of this proceedure to allow these extremes of duty times for two crew operations!
I've always thought that it must look dreadful to any passengers who observe the flight attendants taking an armful of pillows and blankets to the flight deck. I am sure they'd be mortified to think that the crew are sleeping up the front! Best to avoid this by having these items on the flight deck before passengers board the aircraft, imho.
Last edited by kiwi; 3rd Apr 2010 at 16:44.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Monrovia / Liberia
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EASA - Scientific and Medical Evaluation of Flight Time Limitations
Wrt In-Flight Rest, is this of any value?
Title - Scientific and Medical Evaluation of Flight Time Limitations
Description - Final Report - “Scientific and Medical Evaluation of Flight Time Limitations”
The quality of rest regarding rest location / rest facilities for flight crew and cabin crew (re. EU OPS 1.1115 para 1.1 and 1.2).
Various adjustments will be required if the rest facilities do not meet the standards of a ‘good quality’ bunk (footnote to Q11...... The bunk facility should be completely separated from cockpit and passenger compartment and should be adequately insulated and situated to minimize random and aircraft noise and light. It should contain one or two horizontal sleeping surfaces of adequate size. Preferably, it also has a comfortable seat, climate and humidity control. It is assumed that the requirements for rest facilities will be covered under a separate document after conducting comparative studies of different bunk arrangements (e.g. advisory circular).
From studies that have investigated the extent to which aircrew are able to rest and recuperate in seating accommodation, it has been concluded that rest in a ‘normal’ business class seat separated from the passengers is 75% effective compared with bunk rest, and rest in a flight deck seat that meets certain minimal standards is 33% effective [Simons M & Spencer M, 2007].
These factors should therefore be applied to those for bunk sleep so that, for example, the 75% increase, applied to bunk sleep, is reduced to 0.75 x 0.75 = 56% and 0.75 x 0.33 = 25% respectively.
No data have been collected from aircrew resting in normal economy seating, and it is not recommended that any increase in maximum FDP be allowed in that case (until studies are carried out on this).
To summarize, the recommended extensions to the unaugmented FDP, based on the quality of accommodation described below, expressed as a percentage of the rest period available to a single crew member, are as follows [Simons M & Spencer M, 2007]. The percentages have been suitably rounded for ease of application.
A business seat should be a seat reclining to at least 40 degrees back angle to the vertical, outside the cockpit and separated from the passengers and cabin illumination by at least a dark curtain. The seat should offer sufficient leg and foot support and should have sufficient pitch and width to rest comfortably [Simons M & Spencer M, 2007].
A flight deck / other seat should be a seat in the cockpit or in the passenger cabin reclining to at least 40 degrees from the vertical and providing sufficient leg and foot support [Simons M & Spencer M, 2007; Nicholson AN & Stone BM, 1987].
No data are available of comparative studies of seating arrangements; more detailed requirements may await the results of future comparative studies.
The recommendations above are based on studies in cockpit crew. No data are available about the relation between seating accommodation and sleep in cabin crew. Although it is assumed that physiological characteristics and needs of cabin crew are similar to those of cockpit crew, their work and augmentation schedules differ considerably from those of cockpit crew. Therefore, it is recommended to conduct studies of the above-mentioned issues in cabin crew in order to define specific requirements.
The full report is available at: http://www.easa.eu.int/ws_prod/r/doc/research/FTL Study Final Report.pdf
Title - Scientific and Medical Evaluation of Flight Time Limitations
Description - Final Report - “Scientific and Medical Evaluation of Flight Time Limitations”
The quality of rest regarding rest location / rest facilities for flight crew and cabin crew (re. EU OPS 1.1115 para 1.1 and 1.2).
Various adjustments will be required if the rest facilities do not meet the standards of a ‘good quality’ bunk (footnote to Q11...... The bunk facility should be completely separated from cockpit and passenger compartment and should be adequately insulated and situated to minimize random and aircraft noise and light. It should contain one or two horizontal sleeping surfaces of adequate size. Preferably, it also has a comfortable seat, climate and humidity control. It is assumed that the requirements for rest facilities will be covered under a separate document after conducting comparative studies of different bunk arrangements (e.g. advisory circular).
From studies that have investigated the extent to which aircrew are able to rest and recuperate in seating accommodation, it has been concluded that rest in a ‘normal’ business class seat separated from the passengers is 75% effective compared with bunk rest, and rest in a flight deck seat that meets certain minimal standards is 33% effective [Simons M & Spencer M, 2007].
These factors should therefore be applied to those for bunk sleep so that, for example, the 75% increase, applied to bunk sleep, is reduced to 0.75 x 0.75 = 56% and 0.75 x 0.33 = 25% respectively.
No data have been collected from aircrew resting in normal economy seating, and it is not recommended that any increase in maximum FDP be allowed in that case (until studies are carried out on this).
To summarize, the recommended extensions to the unaugmented FDP, based on the quality of accommodation described below, expressed as a percentage of the rest period available to a single crew member, are as follows [Simons M & Spencer M, 2007]. The percentages have been suitably rounded for ease of application.
Recommended extensions to the unaugmented FDP, as a percentage of the rest period:
- Acclimatised: 75% (Bunk) / 60% (Business Seat) / 25% Flight Deck or other Seat / no extension (Economy Seat).
- Unacclimatised: 50% (Bunk) / 40% (Business Seat) / 20% Flight Deck or other Seat / no Extension (Economy Seat).
The seating arrangement must meet certain minimum specifications for these extensions to be justified.- Acclimatised: 75% (Bunk) / 60% (Business Seat) / 25% Flight Deck or other Seat / no extension (Economy Seat).
- Unacclimatised: 50% (Bunk) / 40% (Business Seat) / 20% Flight Deck or other Seat / no Extension (Economy Seat).
A business seat should be a seat reclining to at least 40 degrees back angle to the vertical, outside the cockpit and separated from the passengers and cabin illumination by at least a dark curtain. The seat should offer sufficient leg and foot support and should have sufficient pitch and width to rest comfortably [Simons M & Spencer M, 2007].
A flight deck / other seat should be a seat in the cockpit or in the passenger cabin reclining to at least 40 degrees from the vertical and providing sufficient leg and foot support [Simons M & Spencer M, 2007; Nicholson AN & Stone BM, 1987].
No data are available of comparative studies of seating arrangements; more detailed requirements may await the results of future comparative studies.
The recommendations above are based on studies in cockpit crew. No data are available about the relation between seating accommodation and sleep in cabin crew. Although it is assumed that physiological characteristics and needs of cabin crew are similar to those of cockpit crew, their work and augmentation schedules differ considerably from those of cockpit crew. Therefore, it is recommended to conduct studies of the above-mentioned issues in cabin crew in order to define specific requirements.
Join Date: Jun 2008
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What a knob! Hey, heres a customer service tip for you Edward...Those nice FC passengers who pay a fortune towards our salaries would really appreciate a dining choice before they fall asleep in their comfy suites.
Whoever the cheap t#@t is who decided to cut corners on catering for a few bucks should personally explain to those FC passengers why they can only have one bun and one meal selection for the whole flight.
Dont trip on your knee pads on the way out the door!
Whoever the cheap t#@t is who decided to cut corners on catering for a few bucks should personally explain to those FC passengers why they can only have one bun and one meal selection for the whole flight.
Dont trip on your knee pads on the way out the door!
Join Date: Jan 2006
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These guys just don't get it. If the pilots are resting better during a long haul flight the odds of an incident costing millions of dollars decrease. If a pillow and/or duvet helps a pilot sleep better on a 15 hour sector then the company should provide it for him.
When these guys heard that we might be taking the pillows from empty pax seats, they should have insisted that extra be put on board for us. The cost can't be that much. Instead they turn it on us, insist we are doing things wrong, and if caught will be getting a trip to see the Chief Pilot.
We are just trying to get some sleep. Put some extra pillows, blankets, and duvets on board for the pilots. The life you save may be your own.
7
When these guys heard that we might be taking the pillows from empty pax seats, they should have insisted that extra be put on board for us. The cost can't be that much. Instead they turn it on us, insist we are doing things wrong, and if caught will be getting a trip to see the Chief Pilot.
We are just trying to get some sleep. Put some extra pillows, blankets, and duvets on board for the pilots. The life you save may be your own.
7
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: london
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MAN this is fun to watch. as a newer Airline you people do have a bunch of government style fools running the p[lace. filled with rules on top of rules and NO one to fix issues , just make more rules.. I am sorry for you guys, and Girls. zMost newer Airlines take decades to get this Mucked up with layers of incompetent Management. record time it seems to have happened there
(I'll admit, the last one was harsh)
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Sorry, did I miss something?
I thought Sheik Ahmed was Emirati. Didn't realise he had aquired a British Passport. Mind you, half of India have so why shoudn't he!
Harry
ps We could always get the Aussies in but judging by PP's effort at running the training department for several pathetic years, I think the English are better placed......just!
I thought Sheik Ahmed was Emirati. Didn't realise he had aquired a British Passport. Mind you, half of India have so why shoudn't he!
Harry
ps We could always get the Aussies in but judging by PP's effort at running the training department for several pathetic years, I think the English are better placed......just!
