777 or Airbus
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mensaboy:
The late-arrival EK Kool-Aid drinkers hate to look in the mirror. They would prefer you (and others on this site) not reiterate and/or reinforce how uninformed they were in their decisions to come to Emirates.
This, combined with those who are floundering in their careers and looking for the "Rosetta Stone" that will lead them to the "aviation promise land", leads to the animosity surrounding any post you/others submit that reveal the truth about Emirates.
Anybody with half a brain would think a day spent looking at the past 6 years of posts on this site would have been enough to educate them on the perils of their endeavors in coming to Emirates. Unfortunately for many it forces them to face their personal choices/realities. That reality is painful for many of them to swallow.
I would like to think for every uninformed pilot who has come to EK there are at least twice as many who have read all that is available on this site (inc. your posts) and have made the wise decision to stay where they are at and make the best of their aviation careers in their home countries (unless they are unable and desperate due to being unemployed). I am a firm believer they will experience in the end a significant benefit in terms of all around "life" benefits compared to the "package" offered by EK (akin to the Tortoise and the Hair analogy in their careers). I wish I had been in such a position when I was forced to come to EK.
Some have been lucky (myself included) coming during the good times but those times are LONG past at EK. I have always been agnostic on this company and tell it like I perceive it to be. The recent desperate attempts within the company to coerce it's pilots to forward names of "friends" who might be willing to become future slaves speaks volumes of the desperation in the management department. They know they are in a corner and are desperate to save their hides/jobs........Note to Management: don't clutter my email in-box with your pathetic whines.
Anyway, keep up the good work. I hope to address this "MM" and his rantings at some point in time but I do have a full life/existence outside EK in spite of their attempts to limit it otherwise.
I would suggest all of you in the company do the same:
-no working on days off (personally have not done so in 7 years irrespective of the pleas of "we have no one else able to do the flight" and offers of overtime pay/etc......... my response has ALWAYS been:....."that is a crewing/manpower management issue; not my issue. Sort out your own house". I would suggest it would be in all our favors if you each did the same.
-no Captains discretion unless you are 100% CERTAIN there are ZERO chances anything that could go wrong that might jeopardize your decision will be backed 100% by the company (ie. that will NEVER happen but insist upon it 1st IN WRITING before declining afterwords). If you do so, you are 100% covered. Every time I have been put into the Capt discretion predicament I have insisted upon the above in writing, not received it in turn, thereafter declined to accept the legal indemnity of going into discretion, and NEVER once been questioned by the company afterwords for refusing to do so). Just a FYI.
In short, treat this job exactly for what it has become. It is a short term contract where you owe them NOTHING other than the limits of the terms of the contract.
I give no more/I expect no less. I land, sign the book in, go home, shower the stench of EK off my body and am happy man. End of story.
The late-arrival EK Kool-Aid drinkers hate to look in the mirror. They would prefer you (and others on this site) not reiterate and/or reinforce how uninformed they were in their decisions to come to Emirates.
This, combined with those who are floundering in their careers and looking for the "Rosetta Stone" that will lead them to the "aviation promise land", leads to the animosity surrounding any post you/others submit that reveal the truth about Emirates.
Anybody with half a brain would think a day spent looking at the past 6 years of posts on this site would have been enough to educate them on the perils of their endeavors in coming to Emirates. Unfortunately for many it forces them to face their personal choices/realities. That reality is painful for many of them to swallow.
I would like to think for every uninformed pilot who has come to EK there are at least twice as many who have read all that is available on this site (inc. your posts) and have made the wise decision to stay where they are at and make the best of their aviation careers in their home countries (unless they are unable and desperate due to being unemployed). I am a firm believer they will experience in the end a significant benefit in terms of all around "life" benefits compared to the "package" offered by EK (akin to the Tortoise and the Hair analogy in their careers). I wish I had been in such a position when I was forced to come to EK.
Some have been lucky (myself included) coming during the good times but those times are LONG past at EK. I have always been agnostic on this company and tell it like I perceive it to be. The recent desperate attempts within the company to coerce it's pilots to forward names of "friends" who might be willing to become future slaves speaks volumes of the desperation in the management department. They know they are in a corner and are desperate to save their hides/jobs........Note to Management: don't clutter my email in-box with your pathetic whines.
Anyway, keep up the good work. I hope to address this "MM" and his rantings at some point in time but I do have a full life/existence outside EK in spite of their attempts to limit it otherwise.
I would suggest all of you in the company do the same:
-no working on days off (personally have not done so in 7 years irrespective of the pleas of "we have no one else able to do the flight" and offers of overtime pay/etc......... my response has ALWAYS been:....."that is a crewing/manpower management issue; not my issue. Sort out your own house". I would suggest it would be in all our favors if you each did the same.
-no Captains discretion unless you are 100% CERTAIN there are ZERO chances anything that could go wrong that might jeopardize your decision will be backed 100% by the company (ie. that will NEVER happen but insist upon it 1st IN WRITING before declining afterwords). If you do so, you are 100% covered. Every time I have been put into the Capt discretion predicament I have insisted upon the above in writing, not received it in turn, thereafter declined to accept the legal indemnity of going into discretion, and NEVER once been questioned by the company afterwords for refusing to do so). Just a FYI.
In short, treat this job exactly for what it has become. It is a short term contract where you owe them NOTHING other than the limits of the terms of the contract.
I give no more/I expect no less. I land, sign the book in, go home, shower the stench of EK off my body and am happy man. End of story.
Last edited by Dune; 24th Mar 2010 at 17:55.
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I was feeling a trifle bad, having offended some of my colleagues....... even the likes of JB and TU and Fatbus, because agreeably, they do have a point that I am a tad verbose. I will attempt to change that characteristic in my future posts.
Odd though, that the few who detest my posts, never offer up a counter-argument; just that my viewpoints shouldn't be considered because they dislike the verbiage.
ps. a Jack Bauer quote.... ''your repeditive verbage'', which is extremely funny, except for the fact it demonstrates that his thought processes are in-line with his intelligence/education.
Odd though, that the few who detest my posts, never offer up a counter-argument; just that my viewpoints shouldn't be considered because they dislike the verbiage.
ps. a Jack Bauer quote.... ''your repeditive verbage'', which is extremely funny, except for the fact it demonstrates that his thought processes are in-line with his intelligence/education.
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Boeing...
I wonder who these belong to..
Boeing secures a new order for 12 777s from an unidentified customer
Boeing secures a new order for 12 777s from an unidentified customer
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What always surprises me is how quickly any EK thread turns into either a pissing contest or a bunch of little overly spoiled boys whining about their toys.
To the new joiner....consider yourself lucky and take the job. Congratulations. Airbus or Boeing...As if it matters!
This is the Sandpit mate...rules change at the blink of an eye so it is impossible to predict the future.
And always remember: Things could be worse. EY and QR for example!
To the new joiner....consider yourself lucky and take the job. Congratulations. Airbus or Boeing...As if it matters!
This is the Sandpit mate...rules change at the blink of an eye so it is impossible to predict the future.
And always remember: Things could be worse. EY and QR for example!
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This 330/777 business has always been a bit cyclical. The best fleet to be on was the 330 in the early naughties, great layovers not working too hard and the biggest fleet. It expanded with 340s and gave a nice mix of ULH and M/LH initially. When there was a single daily to a destination it typically opened with the 330. As a frequency was added, the 777 took the nice day flight and the 330 the night return. Then the 777 fleet got updated, went mad and started taking over all of the European destinations.
Joining now most people don't actually care which fleet they are on for a year or so then the reality sets in. So looking forward the 380 will start taking over at LHR for sure and a lot of the cushy 777 routes to Europe. The 350 is not that far away and they will not be throwing a new aircraft onto crappy night routes to India.
Moral of the story, don't make a decision on what is happening now but on where you want to be in 5 years time. But....if you are basing a decision to join on the aircraft fleet route network, you will be disappointed sometime in the future so make sure Dubai/EK lifestyle is for you rather than one particular fleet. Hope it helps.
Joining now most people don't actually care which fleet they are on for a year or so then the reality sets in. So looking forward the 380 will start taking over at LHR for sure and a lot of the cushy 777 routes to Europe. The 350 is not that far away and they will not be throwing a new aircraft onto crappy night routes to India.
Moral of the story, don't make a decision on what is happening now but on where you want to be in 5 years time. But....if you are basing a decision to join on the aircraft fleet route network, you will be disappointed sometime in the future so make sure Dubai/EK lifestyle is for you rather than one particular fleet. Hope it helps.
Last edited by ekwhistleblower; 18th Jan 2013 at 03:07.
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We have finally made our minds up and yes we are taking the plunge and joining EK this summer . Its a 5 year plan and I'm ready for it. I have been assigned the airbus and youre right it doesnt matter at this point what I fly. Everyone I have talked to has positive and negative views on each a/c, company and Dubai. We are familiar with the lifestyle and by now have read pages of PPrune unhappy pilots at EK , but on the flip side have talked to many content pilots (including their families) currently flying either the boeing or airbus. Im leaving my job here in the US after 7 years of bull**** and no progression, little pay and a reserve schedule and thankfully wont be here for the potential merger with another US carrier for the second time. I know what we are getting into and im sure I will have a new set of frustrations, What airline doesnt at this point in time? Having a Contract/Union.. I have been screwed regardless.
So with that being said ..Thanks for all of your advice and comments since I first posted.
So with that being said ..Thanks for all of your advice and comments since I first posted.
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lcristler,
Good for you. At least you have done your homework and you know what to expect. It's true that no airline is perfect and pilots spend an inordinate amount of time b!tching. The Airbus fleet will offer both the A380 and the A350 in the future and routes will likely improve over time relative to the expanding 777 route system. Good luck and enjoy the ride!
Good for you. At least you have done your homework and you know what to expect. It's true that no airline is perfect and pilots spend an inordinate amount of time b!tching. The Airbus fleet will offer both the A380 and the A350 in the future and routes will likely improve over time relative to the expanding 777 route system. Good luck and enjoy the ride!
Thats right don't listen to any of us bitching about EK. Join, it's fantastic and only getting better. BS. The ones loving EK are usually the ones that are counting their lucky stars they even got into EK. EK standard is very average for alot of the guys.
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Icristler, I'm curious about the first line of your post which says, "We have finally made our minds up and yes we are taking the plunge and joining EK this summer. Its a 5 year plan and I'm ready for it." (My emphasis)
I presume the "we" includes your wife- is she ready for the 5 year plan or is it just you? It sounds trivial but trust me this stuff really matters. I hope your wife came with you for the interview and has some idea what she is committing to for the next five years. How happy the family is depends a lot on personal circumstances and what kind of mood the accommodation department are in when you arrive, but it also has a huge impact on how happy you are.
I presume the "we" includes your wife- is she ready for the 5 year plan or is it just you? It sounds trivial but trust me this stuff really matters. I hope your wife came with you for the interview and has some idea what she is committing to for the next five years. How happy the family is depends a lot on personal circumstances and what kind of mood the accommodation department are in when you arrive, but it also has a huge impact on how happy you are.
Interested about the 5 year plan. I wonder if the carrot of a command just a few years after your 5 year date, and only another two yeas to 100% of B fund will make that a sticky conversation closer to the time.
Have you got any kids? Only asking as very little money will be saved in those years if you do. Once you come here, pay to set up etc, it can be expensive to leave. And thats not including the school fees.
Good luck to you.
Confusious says "Inexperienced Airbus pilot will look in shock and say "what the F@ck is it doing now?"; Experienced Airbus pilot will lower newspaper and have a look and say "Is it doing that again?"".
Have you got any kids? Only asking as very little money will be saved in those years if you do. Once you come here, pay to set up etc, it can be expensive to leave. And thats not including the school fees.
Good luck to you.
Confusious says "Inexperienced Airbus pilot will look in shock and say "what the F@ck is it doing now?"; Experienced Airbus pilot will lower newspaper and have a look and say "Is it doing that again?"".
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To make it really worth your sacrifice and effort, 10 years is a more realistic plan to be fair. Upgrade will take at least 6-7 years and a few years to build enough hours in the left seat to have reasonable options to leave. It's up to you to make the best of it and despite all the negative rants, there are many good things about living in Dubai, having said that, the arriving in the summer will be shocking. Good luck
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"Inexperienced Airbus pilot will look in shock and say "what the F@ck is it doing now?"; Experienced Airbus pilot will lower newspaper and have a look and say "Is it doing that again?"".
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BigGeorgie-Yes its my wife and our two young children. My wife is from UK , she was actually a pilot when we met in US. We live in Phoenix, Arizona where the temps are around 110-115 degrees in the summer time so the heat wont be a total shock when we arrive! We did check out Dubai when I had the interview for a week. I have heard the happy wife happy life phrase alot and am well aware we all have to be onboard with the decision and enjoy our lives in Dubai. Hope that is the case for the duration.
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dude, the dry heat in arizona is nothing compared to dubai, lets see if your wife will be happy here.
did they tell you during the interview the divorce rate here is way below average and the upgrade takes 3 years?
the recruiters should burn in hell, they lie so much I wonder how they can look the recruits in the eyes when they fly with them one day, don't know why they even do it.
did they tell you during the interview the divorce rate here is way below average and the upgrade takes 3 years?
the recruiters should burn in hell, they lie so much I wonder how they can look the recruits in the eyes when they fly with them one day, don't know why they even do it.
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Why be so judgemental????
Goretex and others,
How about you let people make their own decisions? While everyone appreciates opinions about EK and your perspectives, the negativity is getting to be too much - things are getting personal. Let people make their own decisions based on the information they have. He did his homework. He's read all of the negativity on this forum. He's talked to current pilots - both happy and unhappy campers. Perhaps you haven't seen how bad the airline business is in the US - it's as broken as anywhere else. No airline is even close to perfect.
Nobody knows what others go through in their own lives - you don't know their personal circumstances. You need to just let people make their own decisions and go with it... Gortex, if you are so unhappy, perhaps you should consider leaving as soon as possible - life is too short to be mad all of the time. Who wants that constant stress?
Sure, this is Pprune and I expect people to be super-negative about everything and very judgemental. Just let people be adults and make their own decisions after they get the information they need... Maybe you'll be right and he'll hate EK and Dubai - or maybe he won't.
How about you let people make their own decisions? While everyone appreciates opinions about EK and your perspectives, the negativity is getting to be too much - things are getting personal. Let people make their own decisions based on the information they have. He did his homework. He's read all of the negativity on this forum. He's talked to current pilots - both happy and unhappy campers. Perhaps you haven't seen how bad the airline business is in the US - it's as broken as anywhere else. No airline is even close to perfect.
Nobody knows what others go through in their own lives - you don't know their personal circumstances. You need to just let people make their own decisions and go with it... Gortex, if you are so unhappy, perhaps you should consider leaving as soon as possible - life is too short to be mad all of the time. Who wants that constant stress?
Sure, this is Pprune and I expect people to be super-negative about everything and very judgemental. Just let people be adults and make their own decisions after they get the information they need... Maybe you'll be right and he'll hate EK and Dubai - or maybe he won't.
Last edited by Iver; 18th Apr 2010 at 23:06.
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Wow, I can't believe people can still be fooled into coming down here. The BS machine that is recruitment still manages to net people even with the info around. I'd love to know what was said re. command time, accom, profit share pay rise etc....
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At least Icristler seems to have done a bit more research than some people who just put their rose tinted glasses on for the interview and believe whatever they are told- whilst ignoring everything they read here.
I would caution that what you see in one week during the interview isn't the "real" Dubai- recruitment are very careful to give you the sanitised version. I would suggest that anybody making such a life changing decision takes at least a week's holiday as well as the time spent during the interview to get a really good feel for the place. Have a look at the prices in the supermarkets and other shops and compare it to an F/Os salary. Then remember that your pay rises may be minimal for the next 7 or 8 or whatever years until you upgrade but infaltion hasn't been minimal here for the last decade or so.
It isn't for everybody but some people (a rapidly shrinking number) really do love it here.
Oh, and if you think the heat here is going to be just like Arizona, you may be in for a bit of a surprise.
Good luck, let us know how you get on once you arrive.
I would caution that what you see in one week during the interview isn't the "real" Dubai- recruitment are very careful to give you the sanitised version. I would suggest that anybody making such a life changing decision takes at least a week's holiday as well as the time spent during the interview to get a really good feel for the place. Have a look at the prices in the supermarkets and other shops and compare it to an F/Os salary. Then remember that your pay rises may be minimal for the next 7 or 8 or whatever years until you upgrade but infaltion hasn't been minimal here for the last decade or so.
It isn't for everybody but some people (a rapidly shrinking number) really do love it here.
Oh, and if you think the heat here is going to be just like Arizona, you may be in for a bit of a surprise.
Good luck, let us know how you get on once you arrive.