100 pilot's sick in EK A/C on ground.. LACK OF CREW!!!
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Hi!
EK is desperate for pilots now, and it will just get worse monthly. I would not be surprised if they start hiring DECs again, and soon.
They emailed something to every email in their database. They asked the pilots to tell any of their pilot friends.
What happened to EK was the normal cyclical pattern of earth. The economy went down, so EK quit hiring, and started saving money on operational costs, like assigning the pilots 92 hour schedules. Conditions at EK have gotten worse, just like a lot of other places.
BUT, EK doesn't have a contract, so they can just cut whatever they want.
THEN, EK got 10 -380s unexpectedly from Qantas, at the same time the economy started to improve. So: Many crews are leaving EK now, as they are fed up, AND there is now somewhere for them to go to. These new airplanes, that were unexpected, need new crews quickly. Then, EK has the normal new planes coming in that they always had.
Because the crews are already schd to 92 hours, they can't just assign them to cover open trips, or guys who get sick... there is NO slack in the schedule!
So, things are snowballing, and with the way the economy is going, more and more places are hiring, which will make it more difficult for EK to get guys, more guys will leave EK, which will make it worse for those there, which means more guys leave, etc., etc.
I have read several posters that say Capts that are leaving are getting paid WAY above normal, with preferential schedules, if they will postpone their departure for XXX amount of time. This also makes things worse, because the guys who stay see the leavers getting big money, and good schedules. The guys who stay have to work even worse schedules, which makes them want to leave.
Currently in the US:
Lots of the regionals are now hiring, starting to hire, or will hire soon.
Virgin America, Atlas, and Southern are hiring. AirTran is starting interviews again this month and will be hiring. It looks like Delta and JetBlue will hire this year, with JB starting in soon. Allegient just bought 757s and may be starting hiring again soon.
EK will HAVE to lower their recruiting standards, AND start improving things for their pilots, if they want to avoid big manning problems.
cliff
NBO
EK is desperate for pilots now, and it will just get worse monthly. I would not be surprised if they start hiring DECs again, and soon.
They emailed something to every email in their database. They asked the pilots to tell any of their pilot friends.
What happened to EK was the normal cyclical pattern of earth. The economy went down, so EK quit hiring, and started saving money on operational costs, like assigning the pilots 92 hour schedules. Conditions at EK have gotten worse, just like a lot of other places.
BUT, EK doesn't have a contract, so they can just cut whatever they want.
THEN, EK got 10 -380s unexpectedly from Qantas, at the same time the economy started to improve. So: Many crews are leaving EK now, as they are fed up, AND there is now somewhere for them to go to. These new airplanes, that were unexpected, need new crews quickly. Then, EK has the normal new planes coming in that they always had.
Because the crews are already schd to 92 hours, they can't just assign them to cover open trips, or guys who get sick... there is NO slack in the schedule!
So, things are snowballing, and with the way the economy is going, more and more places are hiring, which will make it more difficult for EK to get guys, more guys will leave EK, which will make it worse for those there, which means more guys leave, etc., etc.
I have read several posters that say Capts that are leaving are getting paid WAY above normal, with preferential schedules, if they will postpone their departure for XXX amount of time. This also makes things worse, because the guys who stay see the leavers getting big money, and good schedules. The guys who stay have to work even worse schedules, which makes them want to leave.
Currently in the US:
Lots of the regionals are now hiring, starting to hire, or will hire soon.
Virgin America, Atlas, and Southern are hiring. AirTran is starting interviews again this month and will be hiring. It looks like Delta and JetBlue will hire this year, with JB starting in soon. Allegient just bought 757s and may be starting hiring again soon.
EK will HAVE to lower their recruiting standards, AND start improving things for their pilots, if they want to avoid big manning problems.
cliff
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I don't think it will be as simple as just hiring DECs. With the reputation EK has acquired I can't imagine anybody with the required experience wanting to come. Would they hire DECs with less experience than they demand from their own F/Os for upgrade? You now need thousands of hours on an Emirates type to get to the left hand seat. No more hiring DECs who have only flown 737s in Europe as they did last time- and this is definitely a hole they have dug for themselves!
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Question;.why bother?
Your package is pretty much the same..why would you come to EK????? Have you not read what's happening here?
Life must be pretty crap for you to consider moving to EK from a reasonable paying job like that!
Your package is pretty much the same..why would you come to EK????? Have you not read what's happening here?
Life must be pretty crap for you to consider moving to EK from a reasonable paying job like that!
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EK F/Os need time on type for the upgrade. I'm sure they wouldn't have one rule for their own crews and another for DECs, would they? Perish the thought, that would be like a unilateral change in terms and conditions....
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interview questions
Hi everyone, I just was notified for an interview date later this month, what can you say about the process. I have read all the comments and would like to know if this is worth coming over to do? thank you
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Hi!
ricfly744: EK does not have any -400s. The one's you see that are painted "Emirates SkyCargo" are Atlas planes, operated by Atlas on lease to EK.
EK used to hire DECs, but don't now. They have lots of FOs that are qualified for Capt upgrade, ESPECIALLY if they change the requirements back to what they used to be.
It IS hard to pull a bunch of FOs offline to upgrade them when they are all on 92 hour block schedules, with no one available to fly reserve in their place.
EK's manning situation will get worse month by month for the foreseeable future, in my opinion.
cliff
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ricfly744: EK does not have any -400s. The one's you see that are painted "Emirates SkyCargo" are Atlas planes, operated by Atlas on lease to EK.
EK used to hire DECs, but don't now. They have lots of FOs that are qualified for Capt upgrade, ESPECIALLY if they change the requirements back to what they used to be.
It IS hard to pull a bunch of FOs offline to upgrade them when they are all on 92 hour block schedules, with no one available to fly reserve in their place.
EK's manning situation will get worse month by month for the foreseeable future, in my opinion.
cliff
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Rickfly 744
Firstly although the 744 is listed as an EK aircraft, they are not operated by us, and as far as I know the hours don't count as EK type hours for the purpose of DEC or upgrade.
Your assumption of 80hours probably indicates that you have little idea of what is to come. Work on 95 minimum but then take away the following hidden charges.
Medical – yes you pay
Provident fund – yes you contribute and its compulsory
Telephone charges – outrageously expensive and is deducted from your pay
Fines for missed appointment at the clinic
Emirates national ID (compulsory and you pay)
Top up beer money at many destinations as allowances rarely cover proper meals let alone a few beers, in some places we get no allowances at all)
Very expensive visa charges for maids and helpers (don't need one, well lets see after you arrive when you misses has to spend 3 hours in traffic everyday taking kids to school and doing admin.)
As for the furloughed guy asking about EK it largely depends on if your prepared to jump the bond. If you think you may need to return to the UAE in the future then jumping the bond is probably not an option and you'll be stuck for 3 years, after that they have 3 years worth of your provident fund should you decide to walk without paying your bills
If you think your not likely to come back later you could give it a try, get the training, and experience, then if you don't like it take a page out of the emirates school of management and don't honor your contract, and do a runner.(like many have before you) .
To any prospective employee the following have been done to death so listen, learn, and don't ask about them later.
Don't come here expecting to get commuting rosters..its not going to happen,
Don't come here expecting to get off shore bases..its not going to happen,
Don't come here expecting to bid flights to get home..its not going to happen the bidding systems a joke,
Don't come here expecting to save money because there's no tax and everything is free and provided by the company..its not going to happen, as an FO with kids you'll barely make ends meet
Don't come here expecting to bid and fly long haul and get 18 days off a month..its not going to happen, they have bidding restrictions, and days off restrictions to make sure it doesn't happen.
Don't come here expecting to get use of the jump seat to get too or from home ..its not going to happen (crew are not permitted to use the jump seat for this purpose)
Don't come here expecting your contract not to change..it will change, and usually for the worse,
Don't come here talking about unions, associations and the like, you'll be on the first fight out of here,
Don't come here expecting to get your contracted 3 percent pay increment..we didn't get it last year, and its unlikely we'll get it this year.
Be aware that as far as the Arab locals here are concerned you are a slave just like the maids, drivers, ditch diggers, and ass wipers, who make up 97 percent of Dubai's population, and 83 percent of the UAEs, and if you are not prepared to accept that, don't come.
And lastly don't come here if your a DEC expecting to cuff it. The EK operation is comprehensive and extensive, if you don't have significant wide body, and international airline experience you won't cut it, failure rates are high.
Hope this helps
Firstly although the 744 is listed as an EK aircraft, they are not operated by us, and as far as I know the hours don't count as EK type hours for the purpose of DEC or upgrade.
Your assumption of 80hours probably indicates that you have little idea of what is to come. Work on 95 minimum but then take away the following hidden charges.
Medical – yes you pay
Provident fund – yes you contribute and its compulsory
Telephone charges – outrageously expensive and is deducted from your pay
Fines for missed appointment at the clinic
Emirates national ID (compulsory and you pay)
Top up beer money at many destinations as allowances rarely cover proper meals let alone a few beers, in some places we get no allowances at all)
Very expensive visa charges for maids and helpers (don't need one, well lets see after you arrive when you misses has to spend 3 hours in traffic everyday taking kids to school and doing admin.)
As for the furloughed guy asking about EK it largely depends on if your prepared to jump the bond. If you think you may need to return to the UAE in the future then jumping the bond is probably not an option and you'll be stuck for 3 years, after that they have 3 years worth of your provident fund should you decide to walk without paying your bills
If you think your not likely to come back later you could give it a try, get the training, and experience, then if you don't like it take a page out of the emirates school of management and don't honor your contract, and do a runner.(like many have before you) .
To any prospective employee the following have been done to death so listen, learn, and don't ask about them later.
Don't come here expecting to get commuting rosters..its not going to happen,
Don't come here expecting to get off shore bases..its not going to happen,
Don't come here expecting to bid flights to get home..its not going to happen the bidding systems a joke,
Don't come here expecting to save money because there's no tax and everything is free and provided by the company..its not going to happen, as an FO with kids you'll barely make ends meet
Don't come here expecting to bid and fly long haul and get 18 days off a month..its not going to happen, they have bidding restrictions, and days off restrictions to make sure it doesn't happen.
Don't come here expecting to get use of the jump seat to get too or from home ..its not going to happen (crew are not permitted to use the jump seat for this purpose)
Don't come here expecting your contract not to change..it will change, and usually for the worse,
Don't come here talking about unions, associations and the like, you'll be on the first fight out of here,
Don't come here expecting to get your contracted 3 percent pay increment..we didn't get it last year, and its unlikely we'll get it this year.
Be aware that as far as the Arab locals here are concerned you are a slave just like the maids, drivers, ditch diggers, and ass wipers, who make up 97 percent of Dubai's population, and 83 percent of the UAEs, and if you are not prepared to accept that, don't come.
And lastly don't come here if your a DEC expecting to cuff it. The EK operation is comprehensive and extensive, if you don't have significant wide body, and international airline experience you won't cut it, failure rates are high.
Hope this helps
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SKY
Your saying that at any given time there are 1200 guys on leave or in traing?. Better get your fact rights. Anyway a sickness rate of 5% is not that a big deal. Will get worse though
Your saying that at any given time there are 1200 guys on leave or in traing?
. Better get your fact rights. Anyway a sickness rate of 5% is not that a big deal. Will get worse though
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Emirates has been the fastest growing and most succsesful airline of the 21st century, and I am sure we will continue to be so. Our business model has proven to be sustainable even in difficult times, and we are a healthy and profitable company unlike many of our competitors.
That being said I dont think everything is perfect in our airline, but I think its very sad that many of you who contribute to this forum use it to vent off frustration. Your behaviour hurts the airlines reputation, and makes it difficult to hire new employees that is needed for further growth, prosperity and wellbeing for all of us. It also creates an impression of EK that in my mind is simply not correct, this in turn hurts our public image and in the longterm such behaviour can hurt the companys profitabillity and as a consequence your job security. We are a community and we should let disagreements within stay within, and I think negative contributors about EK on this forum should think more about that.
It would be much more productive if you tried to take your complaints to the manager in charge of the area you have problems with. They try to do a good job and is open minded to your feedback and wants to run the best possible airline, which I assume that you want as well.
That being said I dont think everything is perfect in our airline, but I think its very sad that many of you who contribute to this forum use it to vent off frustration. Your behaviour hurts the airlines reputation, and makes it difficult to hire new employees that is needed for further growth, prosperity and wellbeing for all of us. It also creates an impression of EK that in my mind is simply not correct, this in turn hurts our public image and in the longterm such behaviour can hurt the companys profitabillity and as a consequence your job security. We are a community and we should let disagreements within stay within, and I think negative contributors about EK on this forum should think more about that.
It would be much more productive if you tried to take your complaints to the manager in charge of the area you have problems with. They try to do a good job and is open minded to your feedback and wants to run the best possible airline, which I assume that you want as well.
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Dear Mana,
I absolutely agree, Emirates will continue to be the fastest growing airline in the world.
It is because no one in the developed wolrd can hire slaves.
What do you get for AED 700 in this world, a w###e for a night, if you are in the Far East?
Emirates middle managers get less than baggage handlers in Europe. Yes it will grow because slavery is acceptable here, and there are too many starving people in the world to abuse.
Regardless of how many of us bi##h here, it will make no differance to the growth of Emirates, so do not worry my friend. You will always have a great job, while your fellow co workers are Fu##ed for AED 700 a month.
I absolutely agree, Emirates will continue to be the fastest growing airline in the world.
It is because no one in the developed wolrd can hire slaves.
What do you get for AED 700 in this world, a w###e for a night, if you are in the Far East?
Emirates middle managers get less than baggage handlers in Europe. Yes it will grow because slavery is acceptable here, and there are too many starving people in the world to abuse.
Regardless of how many of us bi##h here, it will make no differance to the growth of Emirates, so do not worry my friend. You will always have a great job, while your fellow co workers are Fu##ed for AED 700 a month.
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Mana Dubai!!!! Hey this is not some 3rd world country like Myanmar or Zimbabwe! Everyone has the right just like you, however telling people what to say and write is akin to censorship and a dictatorial regime. Very simple if you don't like what you see , don't look and if you don't like what you read start a new anti PPrune website and get everyone to boycott PPrune. Its your right but don't come here and play the high and almighty!
Dubai's status
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@ManaDubai
They try to do a good job and is open minded to your feedback
Your behaviour hurts the airlines reputation, and makes it difficult to hire new employees
management is doing at the moment, don't mix up reporting a problem with causing it!!!Anyway, with your attitude you could become a perfect EK management tool....or are you already?
btw...heard of freedom of opinion lately?
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ManaDubai AKA.........??? Bless.... do you not like our comments, maybe if EK had the decency to stop screwing us around we wouldn't complain.
"Take your complaints to your manager", Dude you are living in some parallel universe! They couldn't give a sh*t about our comments or morale.
It's your first post here so I suspect you are a management stooge/brown noser or you haven't suceeded with your previous handle poss ManaAdasystem?
"Take your complaints to your manager", Dude you are living in some parallel universe! They couldn't give a sh*t about our comments or morale.
It's your first post here so I suspect you are a management stooge/brown noser or you haven't suceeded with your previous handle poss ManaAdasystem?
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It would be much more productive if you tried to take your complaints to the manager in charge of the area you have problems with
Fatigue: We've told you there's a problem, we submit ASRs, you do a 'study' which you then ignore. You order aircraft with inadequate rest facilities then boll**k us for walking to the coffins in our PJs.
We make a decision on the line which is constantly second guessed by management who hide behind a desk because they don't want to fly the insane rosters, over controlling and woefully under-supporting.
You sack pilots without any due process or even compassion in some cases.
You arbitrarily change terms and conditions, reduce contractual pay entitlements, increase flight times whilst reducing rest, evict us from accommodation at short notice to move to the cheaper stuff you've managed to find.
The list goes on but all of the above YOU, the management, are fully aware of and have done sweet FA about. Why? It costs! That's why we are so 'profitable' because you have failed to invest in your infrastructure in the pursuit of profit... the short term gain and now here's the long term pain. Everything behind the glossy facade in EK is on the cheap & it is unsustainable.
Do you really think anyone has any faith in 'taking their problem to a manager' who cannot make any decision without fearing for his own job? It just never gets us anywhere. There is no 'trust' anymore as you have abused it so often. All smiles and graces at the road-shows and interviews then once you are here (committed you and your family to a completely different way of life, left any job security you may have had), you cynically spout the EK mantra 'if you don't like it leave'.
And now you want to give the impression that we are some kind of cooperative, that we're all in it together while WE make record profits for YOU in the good and bad times but you still scr*w us into the ground.
The truth is out there and do not blame the pilots for the bad press YOU have created.
YOU have painted yourselves in to a corner, Catch 22; Pilots are less inclined to join and more than a few are looking to leave. To address the fatigue issue in particular you need to have more pilots, not just enough to cover the line flights but enough to have some flex and reduce rosters to a more humane lower cap. However without improving the Ts & Cs YOU have eroded you won't get them. Those still here will work even harder and the problems will escalate.
The solution to all of this is with YOU not us. PPrune is the symptom not the cause, YOU are! As soon as YOU come to terms with this the sooner we might actually move forward.
Our business model has proven to be sustainable even in difficult times, and we are a healthy and profitable company unlike many of our competitors.
Last edited by Marooned; 10th Mar 2010 at 03:34.
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Mana, I fly down the road. I thought like you......tell management the problem and how they aren't honoring the contract. Show them studies about fatigue and how it harms the safety of flight to have us flying nights then days. Guess what, They don't care. I am finding it's the way of the Middle East. No one gives a Rats A@% as long as its not happening to them or their still getting their pay. If EK is worried about the reputation maybe they should change the practices of management.
