atc response to declaring mayday at departure airfield
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atc response to declaring mayday at departure airfield
could any atc pro enlighten me what procedure would be in place if an a/c departs and declares a mayday shortly thereafter.
i was always and still am under the impression that the airport is at the unrestricted disposal of the distressed crew and they may use any runway, runway direction and facility available to them and that any traffic at that time would be cleared immediately.
thank you
i was always and still am under the impression that the airport is at the unrestricted disposal of the distressed crew and they may use any runway, runway direction and facility available to them and that any traffic at that time would be cleared immediately.
thank you
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I doubt whether anywhere has a set procedure. However, your impression would be pretty much correct in that if you declare a mayday then ATC will do everything possible to assist including making sure the
airport is at the unrestricted disposal of the distressed crew and they may use any runway, runway direction and facility available to them and that any traffic at that time would be cleared immediately.
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First of all, in that situation ATC usually is not much help. The best they can really do for you is to clear the field and airspace between you and the field so you have options. If it is a REAL emergency (not a precautionary one) you are going to be busy flying and planning your return. We train controllers to just get everyone out of the way and acknowledge the emergency, and usually “Cleared to Land Any Runway, Winds XXX at XX” The hardest part was teaching the controllers not to distract the pilot with stupid questions like number of people and fuel on board, say intentions, etc while the pilot is in the middle of the emergency.
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Emergency
Declare an emergency, tell the controller what you need, then do what you need. He will simply have to get whatever and whomever out of your way.
You have priority as soon as you declare an emergency over all other traffic. Declaring an emergency gives the pilot the authority to deviate from any rule or regulation to the extent required to meet the needs of the emergency situation.
You have priority as soon as you declare an emergency over all other traffic. Declaring an emergency gives the pilot the authority to deviate from any rule or regulation to the extent required to meet the needs of the emergency situation.
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Here's one scenario I was thinking about earlier:
Two aircraft take off one after another. Both have bird strike to the engines, no thrust available, as a result they both declare an emergency! Only one runway is available and no alternate aerodrome in the area, what happens then? Anyone landing first will definitely not leave the runway immediately! So what is the ATC going to do in such a case with both aircraft? Just a hypothetical scenario, it should be interesting to see what others have to say about it.
Two aircraft take off one after another. Both have bird strike to the engines, no thrust available, as a result they both declare an emergency! Only one runway is available and no alternate aerodrome in the area, what happens then? Anyone landing first will definitely not leave the runway immediately! So what is the ATC going to do in such a case with both aircraft? Just a hypothetical scenario, it should be interesting to see what others have to say about it.
So what is the ATC going to do in such a case with both aircraft?
Put it this way- you're the Captain of one of those aircraft, and ATC says something like "Runway occupied, go around!". Does it make the slightest difference to what you do next?
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Declaring a Mayday ensures priority is given to you. You should have the resources of ATC and everyone else at your disposal.
The only thing you have to answer for, is your decisions with respect to what you are demanding and your initial decision to declare the emergency. For example, if you declare a Mayday with a single engine failure on a quad, which subsequently closes a runway or causes diversions, then you will probably be held accountable. Or if you demand a particular runway, and it turns out it was not suitable, then you will answer for that too.
Otherwise, if your decisions are justified, you should get exactly what you request without repercussion.
The only thing you have to answer for, is your decisions with respect to what you are demanding and your initial decision to declare the emergency. For example, if you declare a Mayday with a single engine failure on a quad, which subsequently closes a runway or causes diversions, then you will probably be held accountable. Or if you demand a particular runway, and it turns out it was not suitable, then you will answer for that too.
Otherwise, if your decisions are justified, you should get exactly what you request without repercussion.
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Originally Posted by Touch'n'oops
Let's not get silly now!!! 
All I wanted to know was how ATC handled such a situation, NOT what the pilots did in that matter.
mensaboy & Wizofoz: Interesting answers, but you both are still talking about pilot's decision making and whether the situation was really worth calling a MAYDAY.
Last edited by OMDB-PiLoT; 25th Mar 2009 at 20:54.
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OMDB-Pilot where do you got that "knowledge" from?
Basic rule (as I learned in pilot training) in an emergency:
1. aviate
2. navigate
and THEN if you have the time
3. communicate
And during my time as ATC-Controller we knew about that and if
there was a mayday call or a mayday squawk you get EVERYTHING
out of the way for that aircraft.
So basically once you squawk or call emergency and its acknowledged
you can assume the whole area and the entire airport is at your disposal!
But that was centuries ago, maybe you have to hand in a signed emergency form nowadays
Basic rule (as I learned in pilot training) in an emergency:
1. aviate
2. navigate
and THEN if you have the time
3. communicate
And during my time as ATC-Controller we knew about that and if
there was a mayday call or a mayday squawk you get EVERYTHING
out of the way for that aircraft.
So basically once you squawk or call emergency and its acknowledged
you can assume the whole area and the entire airport is at your disposal!
But that was centuries ago, maybe you have to hand in a signed emergency form nowadays
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Hypothetical Question
OMDB-PiLoT
Hypothetical Answer.
1. How long is a piece of string?
2. If my aunty had balls.......
3.Where would they bury the survivors?
I hope this helps.
For the grammar police, I know never answer a question with a question.
Hypothetical Answer.
1. How long is a piece of string?
2. If my aunty had balls.......
3.Where would they bury the survivors?
I hope this helps.
For the grammar police, I know never answer a question with a question.
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OMDB-PiLoT
It happened to me once! However, not bird strikes.
1st ACFT returned immediately for landing and vacated
2nd ACFT departed 1 min behind, returned for landing on same runway as no 1
no time for a runway inspection between the 2 landings, but fire and rescue in position for both landings. The other parallel runway was still in use with other landing aircraft, but departures were delayed. The crossing runway not available for emergency landings unless for critical emergencies (these two were not)
was I busy on DEP, hell yes, and so became the TWR controller
It happened to me once! However, not bird strikes.
1st ACFT returned immediately for landing and vacated
2nd ACFT departed 1 min behind, returned for landing on same runway as no 1
no time for a runway inspection between the 2 landings, but fire and rescue in position for both landings. The other parallel runway was still in use with other landing aircraft, but departures were delayed. The crossing runway not available for emergency landings unless for critical emergencies (these two were not)
was I busy on DEP, hell yes, and so became the TWR controller
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@Schibulsky: Ya its pretty clear you are old enough to not comprehend what I was talking about. With all due respect, its apparent your "experience" didn't teach you how to read comments in this forum properly, which includes the question asked in the first post here. Please stop acting like a sciolist*! If you read my previous posts clearly, you will understand what I mean. The ATC needs to ACKNOWLEDGE the MAYDAY to clear everything up in that airspace! So to assume that the whole aerodrome will just wipe out dead from the airspace by declaring MAYDAY is wrong.
*Look at the end of this page for what it means.
@Rule3: Ya I think banging your head is all you need right now.
@ATSI: Thanks for sharing that event with us. I guess my scenario isn't 'hypothetical' anymore and gives an opportunity for the so-called "experienced" pilots in this forum to learn something. Anything can happen in aviation.
*Look at the end of this page for what it means.
@Rule3: Ya I think banging your head is all you need right now.
@ATSI: Thanks for sharing that event with us. I guess my scenario isn't 'hypothetical' anymore and gives an opportunity for the so-called "experienced" pilots in this forum to learn something. Anything can happen in aviation.
Last edited by OMDB-PiLoT; 25th Mar 2009 at 20:57.
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So what is the ATC going to do in such a case with both aircraft? Just a hypothetical scenario, it should be interesting to see what others have to say about it.
The truth is that all the rules go out the window and everyone should do what they can to prevent people from dying.... if that means clearing taxiways, aprons or grass 23 for use then so be it.
safe flying
P
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OMDB-Pilot:
WRONG!!!!
absolute BS!!!
Why do you think "communicate" is the last on the list?
Because you might have fcuk all time to tell everybody what you are doing!
When you call mayday everybody immediately hits the big red buttons and you should see how your 7700 lights up the screens in every ATC unit in that area. Btw. nice whoooping sound too
But looks like you have never set foot into an ATC unit!
Do not ask guys with ATC knowledge for info and then start your ill informed BS
Keep looking for the "mayday button" on your FMC...
The ATC needs to ACKNOWLEDGE the MAYDAY to clear everything up in that airspace!
So to assume that the whole aerodrome will just wipe out dead from the airspace by declaring MAYDAY is wrong
Why do you think "communicate" is the last on the list?
Because you might have fcuk all time to tell everybody what you are doing!
When you call mayday everybody immediately hits the big red buttons and you should see how your 7700 lights up the screens in every ATC unit in that area. Btw. nice whoooping sound too
But looks like you have never set foot into an ATC unit!
Do not ask guys with ATC knowledge for info and then start your ill informed BS
Keep looking for the "mayday button" on your FMC...
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When you call mayday everybody immediately hits the big red buttons and you should see how your 7700 lights up the screens in every ATC unit in that area. Btw. nice whoooping sound too
But looks like you have never set foot into an ATC unit!
LOL... here's something interesting
Originally Posted by Schibulsky
OMDB-Pilot:
The ATC needs to ACKNOWLEDGE the MAYDAY to clear everything up in that airspace!
Originally Posted by Schibulsky
So basically once you squawk or call emergency and its acknowledged
you can assume the whole area and the entire airport is at your disposal!
you can assume the whole area and the entire airport is at your disposal!
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Originally Posted by Schibulsky
So basically once you squawk or call emergency and its acknowledged
you can assume the whole area and the entire airport is at your disposal!
So basically once you squawk or call emergency and its acknowledged
you can assume the whole area and the entire airport is at your disposal!
The first sentence was probably just too long for you.
You probably think I should have said: "..leave your aircraft, visit the ATC unit and watch what happens.."
But even then you are obviously still too dense to get the point!
So I type r e a l l y slowly for you now:
The nice people in the funny tall building and the others with the weird round TVs have a thingy that is turning all the time and tell them where you are and where you are going.
It makes also funny noises and flashes when people like you experience a bad bad situation (probably in your case: losing all auto pilots
)Then they take the other thingy (the one with the buttons) and tell all other people in the other tall buildings (and the other round TV guys) that there is somebody who has a problem and might come for a visit.
And because they are very very well trained that happens very very fast.
o.k.??
Now your problem starts...do I have a procedure for that?...am I allowed to fly this thing with my hands?...is there no button for that?...will I get reported because I land without clearence?
Believe me, thats the first time you can happily ignore the guy (tall building or round TV) who always told you what to do
Now I rest my case and get back to the vodka, need it to not develope fear of flying with pilots like you
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OMDB-PiLoT, I still think you're hypothetical question is silly, well right out stupid!!!
I can't imagine an ATC controller asking a plane, with no thrust, to hold or go somewhere else.
I agree that this may happen, but what can ATC do to organise two crap gliders???
It will obvious be a 'stuck it and see' situation. You would hope that one aircraft would arrive first and use it's momentum (That's right, aircraft CAN roll without thrust.) to clear the runway for the next aircraft. Say the aircraft can't clear or the two aircraft arrive to together. One go for the runway and the other look for a clear taxiway or look to touch down near the aerodrome, so emergency services can reach them quickly.
At the end of the day it will come down to good old fashion airmanship. Both flight deck crews should hopefully have a good enough SA to pickup the other MAYDAY.
OMDB-PiLoT: DO YOU ACTUALLY FLY?????????
I can't imagine an ATC controller asking a plane, with no thrust, to hold or go somewhere else.
I agree that this may happen, but what can ATC do to organise two crap gliders???
It will obvious be a 'stuck it and see' situation. You would hope that one aircraft would arrive first and use it's momentum (That's right, aircraft CAN roll without thrust.) to clear the runway for the next aircraft. Say the aircraft can't clear or the two aircraft arrive to together. One go for the runway and the other look for a clear taxiway or look to touch down near the aerodrome, so emergency services can reach them quickly.
At the end of the day it will come down to good old fashion airmanship. Both flight deck crews should hopefully have a good enough SA to pickup the other MAYDAY.
OMDB-PiLoT: DO YOU ACTUALLY FLY?????????