DAE Flight Academy: Students' feedback please!
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: WGS 84
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well for the time it's still "easy" to get the GCAA ATP through the FAA one. Should you consider a JAA standard training today I would recommend to get it in Europe instead of a speculative frozen GCAA one. In the mean time going for a quick FAA ATP then GCAA conversion when needed will not cost that much and will give you the unfrozen license...
In my opinion, as a part of the CPL-IR it is quite more educative to experience some real weather, icing and other "classic" procedures (NDB, restricted airports etc...) instead of being vectored for ILS approaches on 3500 m long runways in clear sky, no wind, no rain, no terrain etc...
In my opinion, as a part of the CPL-IR it is quite more educative to experience some real weather, icing and other "classic" procedures (NDB, restricted airports etc...) instead of being vectored for ILS approaches on 3500 m long runways in clear sky, no wind, no rain, no terrain etc...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: wherever I can fly for money!
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey DoggyDip!!
Sorry mate...I've almost dropped ur message...!!! obviously it's very important one
Well..I'll be looking forward to getting the updates as soon as you come back
All the best !
Well..I'll be looking forward to getting the updates as soon as you come back
All the best !
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: WGS 84
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm still not convinced of the educative benefits of overflying 1000 Nm of water to go to Mumbai but after all people can choose their academy.
When are those Eclipse supposed to be delivered ?
When are those Eclipse supposed to be delivered ?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: wherever I can fly for money!
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey you DAEFA guys...
Where are you?!!
it seems that no one of them ever knew about PPRuNe!!
or more interestingly they might be having no chance to comb their hair even!!!
Where are you?!!
it seems that no one of them ever knew about PPRuNe!!
or more interestingly they might be having no chance to comb their hair even!!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: wherever I can fly for money!
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah I knew that Eclipse Aviation has filed for bankruptcy, and Cirrus has furloughed hundreds of manufacturing workers until January...One can't tell how is it gonna affect the future of the starter academy!
still not a word has came out from anyone there...strange, isn't it!
still not a word has came out from anyone there...strange, isn't it!
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Manchester
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chapter 11
Guys, Eclipse Aviation aren't going anywhere. They have filed for Chapter 11 which allot of companies do when it's crunch time and necessary to protect value & reduce debt. Companies are still allowed to operate (with limitation) under Chapter 11.
Full press statement here
DAE have little leverage over the financial well being of their suppliers. I'm assuming they'll have no choice but to lease training aircraft from a 3rd party if EA500 deliveries don't materialize in time.
"In the face of unprecedented economic challenges, it is clear that the sale of the Eclipse business through the Chapter 11 process is the right course of action to maximize the value of the business, secure its future and protect the best interests of Eclipse's stakeholders, including customers, suppliers, employees and creditors," said Roel Pieper, CEO of Eclipse Aviation. "The successful sale will position the business for aggressive global expansion, allowing the company to fulfill its promise and solidify its position as the world's leading manufacturer of VLJs."
DAE have little leverage over the financial well being of their suppliers. I'm assuming they'll have no choice but to lease training aircraft from a 3rd party if EA500 deliveries don't materialize in time.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: wherever I can fly for money!
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mike.Park
Yeah you are right about chapter 11.. to be accurate, we should say "filing for bankruptcy protection".
But we are still at the same conclusion..or better say "the same speculations"...and we don't know what kind of limitations those guys will face at EA.
I wonder how do they manage to conduct the training currently...may be they already have the Cirrus single-engine A/C, but what about the ME?? are they still committed to train students on the Eclipse 500?? On time??
I think that the original delivery date of EA500 is Feb2009..not sure about the date but I hope it's true...even if leased, this would be a satisfactory option..at the end I would love to know that they move forward according to plan.
But we are still at the same conclusion..or better say "the same speculations"...and we don't know what kind of limitations those guys will face at EA.
DAE have little leverage over the financial well being of their suppliers. I'm assuming they'll have no choice but to lease training aircraft from a 3rd party if EA500 deliveries don't materialize in time.
I think that the original delivery date of EA500 is Feb2009..not sure about the date but I hope it's true...even if leased, this would be a satisfactory option..at the end I would love to know that they move forward according to plan.
Last edited by SilveR5; 9th Dec 2008 at 13:02.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Manchester
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't think it is an immediate crisis for those who are already at the flight school.
The school already have their single engined aircraft (SR22), and they also have their B737 simulator & their flight training devices.
Believe it or not, most of your ab-initio training is conducted on a single engined aircraft so I don't think the current cadets are anywhere near to starting their multi-engined phase of flight training.
According to their website:
135 Hours in the Cirrus SR22
66 hours on Flight Training Devices
50 Hours in the Eclipse EA500 Jet
The school already have their single engined aircraft (SR22), and they also have their B737 simulator & their flight training devices.
Believe it or not, most of your ab-initio training is conducted on a single engined aircraft so I don't think the current cadets are anywhere near to starting their multi-engined phase of flight training.
According to their website:
135 Hours in the Cirrus SR22
66 hours on Flight Training Devices
50 Hours in the Eclipse EA500 Jet
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: RAK
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To my knowledge, knowing a few of the upper managment people at DAEFA, they are considering many different strategies with the latest developments at Eclipse. Of course leasing from a third party is an option, another would be to scrap Eclipse and go with a different VLJ all together. Before anyone reply's to this saying what other jet's are there. I am sure they are talking with Cessna and companies like that. As for replies from people within the company concerning the developments at the Flight Academy, come on people, read some of these posts. It is almost ignorant to assume that they are keeping silent on here. Isn't it a little funny to see stuff that isn't posted anywhere online or in any of their marketing material quoted on here?? As for the health of the Flight Academy, they seem to be almost over the hump of "start up" and finally starting to accelerate into normal day-to-day operations. There have been multiple students coming in for screening and the pipeline for cadet intake is filling pretty fast. Of course, as with any business it is not as fast as people would have assumed it would be, but give it time. Rome was not built in a day you know.
As for the ciriculum: Yes there is a lot of FAA and JAA theory built into it. That is why they have brought in instructors from all over the world. The theory of instruction there should be based on Scenario and some of the instructors there already have a good deal of experience with it. From other schools that I have seen that implement this type of training, it is based more on the students and less on the instructors themselves. Think of it as a guided approach to learning, putting more of the trial and error side of learning back into it. Obliviously they shouldn't let things go too far, but that is the best way to learn. For more info on scenario based training, look at the FAA-FITS information available at www.faa.gov or Cirrus themselves use this type of training when it comes to training new owners and Cirrus Standardized Instructor Pilots (CSIP's) and they have a lot of good infor on there site as well. The biggest thing about flying routes, for everyone who say's its a waste of valuable training time, is that you will be flying changing scenarios on every portion. You will have a set number of failures to acheive, a set number of tasks to perform and always, judgment skills are being formed. Working in a two crew environment helps to bridge the gap between Traditional training (Manoeuvers Based) and the Airlines. It's actually a good concept, I just think they may have made a huge mistake trying to do this in Ras Al Khaimah. Some of the new traning ideas coming out on the market, most of them can be found on the EATS (European Aviation Training Symposium) website, will or at least should be the goal of this and many other flight schools. Of course, all of that is left to be seen.
As for the Ground School: All I see on here in almost every thread they anyone has put is that the ground school is useless because you only get GCAA Lics. Well, do you really think a flight school is out to screw you so badly as to make you do something as hard core, and personally as useless as all imagination, if they didn't have something in the works with the JAR authority to allow them to write the tests either off site or even in building?? Come on, that is cruel and unusual punishment if that's the case. Of course, as with anything else in this world, you will always be certified by the authority in which you train. Oxford and Lufthansa send cadets over to the states to build up there flight time so they can do the tests, but they always bring them back here to do the checkrides so why is it such a shock to you guy's that, if you train in the GCAA you get GCAA lics? I'll bet the overall goals of DAEFA is to one day have a training alliance setup with a provider in the JAR World so that when you are ready for the checkride and you have written the tests, you will have the opportunity to go there and do the checkrides. Or at least this is how I would have set things up and will be extremely disappointed if this is not the case over there and then I will have nothing but bad things to say.
I hope this helps a little to you guys, oh, and one more thing. What the hell do you mean "I guess those people don't know about PPruNe?? Of course not, they are students getting into the aviation industry for the first time!!!!! Come on, how long did it take before you or more likely, someone told you about it?? Give them a little credit, they are trying to make the best decisions they can with the information available to them.
Cheers folks and if you have questions, I would say to direct them to DAEFA themselves and try not to speculate. Look at all the information I got out of them just by making a phone call and taking a little initiative to get to some actually in the flight academy that knew what was really going on.
As for the ciriculum: Yes there is a lot of FAA and JAA theory built into it. That is why they have brought in instructors from all over the world. The theory of instruction there should be based on Scenario and some of the instructors there already have a good deal of experience with it. From other schools that I have seen that implement this type of training, it is based more on the students and less on the instructors themselves. Think of it as a guided approach to learning, putting more of the trial and error side of learning back into it. Obliviously they shouldn't let things go too far, but that is the best way to learn. For more info on scenario based training, look at the FAA-FITS information available at www.faa.gov or Cirrus themselves use this type of training when it comes to training new owners and Cirrus Standardized Instructor Pilots (CSIP's) and they have a lot of good infor on there site as well. The biggest thing about flying routes, for everyone who say's its a waste of valuable training time, is that you will be flying changing scenarios on every portion. You will have a set number of failures to acheive, a set number of tasks to perform and always, judgment skills are being formed. Working in a two crew environment helps to bridge the gap between Traditional training (Manoeuvers Based) and the Airlines. It's actually a good concept, I just think they may have made a huge mistake trying to do this in Ras Al Khaimah. Some of the new traning ideas coming out on the market, most of them can be found on the EATS (European Aviation Training Symposium) website, will or at least should be the goal of this and many other flight schools. Of course, all of that is left to be seen.
As for the Ground School: All I see on here in almost every thread they anyone has put is that the ground school is useless because you only get GCAA Lics. Well, do you really think a flight school is out to screw you so badly as to make you do something as hard core, and personally as useless as all imagination, if they didn't have something in the works with the JAR authority to allow them to write the tests either off site or even in building?? Come on, that is cruel and unusual punishment if that's the case. Of course, as with anything else in this world, you will always be certified by the authority in which you train. Oxford and Lufthansa send cadets over to the states to build up there flight time so they can do the tests, but they always bring them back here to do the checkrides so why is it such a shock to you guy's that, if you train in the GCAA you get GCAA lics? I'll bet the overall goals of DAEFA is to one day have a training alliance setup with a provider in the JAR World so that when you are ready for the checkride and you have written the tests, you will have the opportunity to go there and do the checkrides. Or at least this is how I would have set things up and will be extremely disappointed if this is not the case over there and then I will have nothing but bad things to say.
I hope this helps a little to you guys, oh, and one more thing. What the hell do you mean "I guess those people don't know about PPruNe?? Of course not, they are students getting into the aviation industry for the first time!!!!! Come on, how long did it take before you or more likely, someone told you about it?? Give them a little credit, they are trying to make the best decisions they can with the information available to them.
Cheers folks and if you have questions, I would say to direct them to DAEFA themselves and try not to speculate. Look at all the information I got out of them just by making a phone call and taking a little initiative to get to some actually in the flight academy that knew what was really going on.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: wherever I can fly for money!
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What the hell do you mean "I guess those people don't know about PPruNe?? Of course not
Thanks for the info you shared with us here. Your input is highly appreciated at any time.
Cheers
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: RAK
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey SilveR5, sorry for the blast on the PPRuNe thing, I just know that I have heard about it in the last couple of years and have been flying for over ten years now. Most of the time when I put in a search for a flight school, I got the exact site I wanted and not a huge list of other sites and no response that included PPRuNe. I might have miss spoke, but that wasn't supposed to sound like an insult but more as a Well Duh type of thing. As for the students, I don't really know why none of them reply. I hope the course isn't so intense that they have no other life, but I don't really know.
As for the other jet options, there are Cessna Mustangs. They seem reliable and knowing people at Cessna, they say they could have aircraft over in this part of the world for delivery as soon as they would want them. I'll bet there could be issues with finding flight traning devices for them. I don't know who actually has the contract on building them, but that could possibly take longer than the aircraft to recieve. But that would be my guess. Other than that, I really haven't been keeping up with the VLJ markets to see what else is available. Last I heard, anything else is still to far away from production. Maybe a good old King Air or possibly a larger jet and a smaller old fashion twin traininer may be in order. Lets hear it for a good old Seminole or something. I think may have taken a bit of a hit trying to promote flat out "Glass" equipped aircraft, but hey, I guess I'm a little more old school.
Cheers guys and I wish I could give some more insight, but I'm a little tapped for information after last nights post.
As for the other jet options, there are Cessna Mustangs. They seem reliable and knowing people at Cessna, they say they could have aircraft over in this part of the world for delivery as soon as they would want them. I'll bet there could be issues with finding flight traning devices for them. I don't know who actually has the contract on building them, but that could possibly take longer than the aircraft to recieve. But that would be my guess. Other than that, I really haven't been keeping up with the VLJ markets to see what else is available. Last I heard, anything else is still to far away from production. Maybe a good old King Air or possibly a larger jet and a smaller old fashion twin traininer may be in order. Lets hear it for a good old Seminole or something. I think may have taken a bit of a hit trying to promote flat out "Glass" equipped aircraft, but hey, I guess I'm a little more old school.
Cheers guys and I wish I could give some more insight, but I'm a little tapped for information after last nights post.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DAE Flight Academy
A word to you about DAE flight Academy, well a Few words, run, stay away, don’t waste your money. They have lost a few instructors already; they don’t even have a FTO yet. This school is a giant waste of time and money. If you are European stay in Europe and get JAA certificates. UAE certificates are useless if you are not an Arab or if you don’t have a lot of time IE 2000 hours Transport Cat Jet PIC time. This school is someone’s Fantasy. Think about it they don’t even have an airline partner willing to give their students guaranteed Interviews. 150K for what? What airline is going to take you with 250 and a E500 and a Airbus or 737 Type on UAE certificates. You are going to have to go to eagle jet and buy line training for another $50000USD, Think about it Emirates does their cadet training in Australia for less than half the Price, Ethiad has their program already. Fellow Pilots Don’t waste your time. RAK by the way is a S&%T Whole of a Place trust. It is not DUBAI. If you still feel like wasting money to fly a useless E500 go right a head. Anyway Guys Merry Christmas keep the blue side up.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: any town as retired.
Posts: 2,182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RaK is not a load of %^%^
It is just different from Dubai, just as Luton is different to London, etc, etc.
I hear that they have a new COO, in DAE, any idea why.
Dr Potty has no connection to DAE, so concerned at this one.
Also heard that RAK airways has set up a JV for Cabin Crew and general SEP training in the Heavy Lift building at RAK.
Horizon is setting up a remote facility, just down the road in UAQ.
So the Northern Emirates have something to attract "learners".
RAK has its problems, but lack of airspace, and less road and air traffic is no one of them.
Glf
I hear that they have a new COO, in DAE, any idea why.
Dr Potty has no connection to DAE, so concerned at this one.
Also heard that RAK airways has set up a JV for Cabin Crew and general SEP training in the Heavy Lift building at RAK.
Horizon is setting up a remote facility, just down the road in UAQ.
So the Northern Emirates have something to attract "learners".
RAK has its problems, but lack of airspace, and less road and air traffic is no one of them.
Glf
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Manchester
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
More sims
News update from CAT Magazine (Dec 2008 ed.)
SR22 SIMULATORS
ASE, Inc. has completed the design, manufacture and installation
of two cirrus SR22 G-3 simulators for the Dubai Aerospace Enterprise
Flight Academy. One unit was approved by the FAA as an advanced
aviation training device in September 2008. The second is a
JAR 2A Level 2 FTD and was qualified in Ras al Khaimah, UAE in
September. Two more devices are scheduled for delivery to DAE Flight
Academy in January 2009.
SR22 SIMULATORS
ASE, Inc. has completed the design, manufacture and installation
of two cirrus SR22 G-3 simulators for the Dubai Aerospace Enterprise
Flight Academy. One unit was approved by the FAA as an advanced
aviation training device in September 2008. The second is a
JAR 2A Level 2 FTD and was qualified in Ras al Khaimah, UAE in
September. Two more devices are scheduled for delivery to DAE Flight
Academy in January 2009.
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Australia
Age: 60
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DAE also set up a university in Dubai which they then closed down last year because it could not generate a return on their investment fast enough. Be careful where you spend your money and make sure it's guaranteed.