DAE Flight Academy: Students' feedback please!
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DAE Flight Academy: Students' feedback please!
Hi there..
"Dubai Aerospace Enterprise Flight Academy"
Is anybody here a current student at DAEFA?? I'm looking for feedback from students about:
-Screening/Assessment process (I heard that they need a math/physics genius to pass the initial exams!!!)
-Quality of training
-The environment in general
I appreciate your help
"Dubai Aerospace Enterprise Flight Academy"
Is anybody here a current student at DAEFA?? I'm looking for feedback from students about:
-Screening/Assessment process (I heard that they need a math/physics genius to pass the initial exams!!!)
-Quality of training
-The environment in general
I appreciate your help
Last edited by SilveR5; 22nd Nov 2008 at 05:22.
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Hey Silver5,
I can confirm that their screening process is pretty rigorous and it's beyond what you would expect of any FTO in the Middle East (which is definitely a good thing!)
It's a way of reducing risk to the flight school and yourself. The flight school don't want your hard earned money if they think (a) Your not going to cope with the intensive training, or (b) They believe you'll have little success with becoming a first officer with the airlines after you complete your training.
The selection process and what it entails is available [here]
All the best
I can confirm that their screening process is pretty rigorous and it's beyond what you would expect of any FTO in the Middle East (which is definitely a good thing!)
It's a way of reducing risk to the flight school and yourself. The flight school don't want your hard earned money if they think (a) Your not going to cope with the intensive training, or (b) They believe you'll have little success with becoming a first officer with the airlines after you complete your training.
The selection process and what it entails is available [here]
All the best
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Logic
Yes Aero..I think you are right buddy
& one more important thing to add here is the issue of reputation...since it's a new academy with a brand new training concepts, they should be doing that to guarantee the distinction they promise to achieve..
I would be glad if any1 around here shares some insider's info about it..!
& one more important thing to add here is the issue of reputation...since it's a new academy with a brand new training concepts, they should be doing that to guarantee the distinction they promise to achieve..
I would be glad if any1 around here shares some insider's info about it..!
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One simple fact: DAE chose the eclipse 500 as a training aircraft. This is enough to be skeptical about this academy's strategy. They probably have fantastic people but to me this simple choice is a big concern about the technical knowledge of the decision makers.
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Hi there,
I am booking a tour with DAEFA,and I have a lot of question regarding their training.However,i was concerned regarding math and physics exams. Its just becasue I havent practiced these subjects for very long time. They told me to buy O-Level revision books,and should be sufficient to pass these subjects.However,what i understood is that there isnt failing as such,but if they see that you are weak in these subjects,they recommend 2 month foundation course(which costs $5000).
I'll keep you guys up dated after my visit.
PEACE!
I am booking a tour with DAEFA,and I have a lot of question regarding their training.However,i was concerned regarding math and physics exams. Its just becasue I havent practiced these subjects for very long time. They told me to buy O-Level revision books,and should be sufficient to pass these subjects.However,what i understood is that there isnt failing as such,but if they see that you are weak in these subjects,they recommend 2 month foundation course(which costs $5000).
I'll keep you guys up dated after my visit.
PEACE!
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sispanys ria
so what's ur point exactly?? the eclipse 500 is their A/C for the multi-engine rating and the type rating..in my view, I see this very superior vs. any other pilot training scheme...I can't really see why it looks skeptical or creating big concern to you??
please elaborate...
thanks
so what's ur point exactly?? the eclipse 500 is their A/C for the multi-engine rating and the type rating..in my view, I see this very superior vs. any other pilot training scheme...I can't really see why it looks skeptical or creating big concern to you??
please elaborate...
thanks
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Choice of aircraft
Sispanys,
On the contrary, I found their choice of aircraft to be rather impressive. Allot of the schools in the Middle East have had performance issues with their aircraft for the simple fact that most old & dying PA28s, C152/172s under perform in this part of the world because of the the weather being so hot & humid. Allot of schools have had to actually call off flights due to conditions exceeding aircraft climatic restrictions. You cant afford to have down time when your on an intensive integrated course of training.
The Cirrus SR22 is what they use for primary single engine flight training. It's fitted with a Continental IO-550 which delivers 310HP and is an all glass-cocpit aircraft. I don't think anyone is going to be complaining!
The more advanced portions of flight training (CPL/IR) is conducted on a twin engined (turbine) Eclipse 500 which has just recently won European EASA approval. This is unheard of within the realms of civil flight training. You never hear of ab-intio cadets who experience 50 hours worth of real jet time before they even start their Type Rating.
There's a good article about DAE in a magazine called Civil Aviation Training.
On the contrary, I found their choice of aircraft to be rather impressive. Allot of the schools in the Middle East have had performance issues with their aircraft for the simple fact that most old & dying PA28s, C152/172s under perform in this part of the world because of the the weather being so hot & humid. Allot of schools have had to actually call off flights due to conditions exceeding aircraft climatic restrictions. You cant afford to have down time when your on an intensive integrated course of training.
The Cirrus SR22 is what they use for primary single engine flight training. It's fitted with a Continental IO-550 which delivers 310HP and is an all glass-cocpit aircraft. I don't think anyone is going to be complaining!
The more advanced portions of flight training (CPL/IR) is conducted on a twin engined (turbine) Eclipse 500 which has just recently won European EASA approval. This is unheard of within the realms of civil flight training. You never hear of ab-intio cadets who experience 50 hours worth of real jet time before they even start their Type Rating.
There's a good article about DAE in a magazine called Civil Aviation Training.
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"Allot of the schools in the Middle East have had performance issues with their aircraft for the simple fact that most old & dying PA28s, C152/172s under perform in this part of the world because of the the weather being so hot & humid"
,Aero, that is nonsense. perhaps you'd like to name these schools with their 'old and dying' PA28s, 152s and 172s and when they have been grounded because of 'climatic' conditions.
,Aero, that is nonsense. perhaps you'd like to name these schools with their 'old and dying' PA28s, 152s and 172s and when they have been grounded because of 'climatic' conditions.
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perhaps you'd like to name these schools with their 'old and dying' PA28s, 152s and 172s and when they have been grounded because of 'climatic' conditions.
I can also confirm that QAC have also had no-fly weeks during the summer months due to soaring temperatures. If I'm not mistaken, the PA28s climatic restriction is posted as ISA+30, which would equate to 45°C. Temperatures can easily exceed this during the summer months.
As for aging fleet, it's no secret that the operational performace of aircraft slowly deteriorate over their life span. Quite a few FTOs in the Middle East have aircraft that were built back in the early 70s making them 35+ years old.
Cheerio.
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Ok I will elaborate little bit more.
Like any other aircraft the Eclipse will have to face the demanding climatic conditions of the region. Have a look at its performances and tell me if you would recommend it for multi-engine training (N-1 operations).
Now the second issue concerns the current situation of the manufacturer. Some serious aviation consultants seems convinced the production will stop within 6 months as it will probably face similar bankruptcy problems as Adams and Grob. While Cessna & Embraer can afford to develop such products thanks to their strong experience and wide product range (balancing development costs), developing a full production of a new jet aircraft was quite a tough challenge. With all respect to these ambitious developpers, their unrealistic vision of the situation, encouraged by enthusiastic (and irresponsible) operators lead them to a dead end.
Day Jet sold 28 of its Eclipse for $500k each while the manufacturer had to adjust its prices by almost 1 Million USD. In the meantime the Turkish MyJet is having 200% trust in this program and orders 120 aircrafts for its air taxi program...
The VLJ industry is suffering from a highly speculative marketing just like the real estate industry in the UAE. The ending will probably be similar as all the actors prefers to keep denying the reality while the curtain is closing. There must be one very happy guy who enjoyed loads of commissions by recommending this machine in the Middle East but I wouldn't like to be one of the buyers.
Once again it's only my personnal point of view. I would have recommended turboprops for a flight academy due to much higher flat ratings in hot climate and lower fuel consumptions. I guess no other flight academy in the world made a similar decision... it must mean something.
Like any other aircraft the Eclipse will have to face the demanding climatic conditions of the region. Have a look at its performances and tell me if you would recommend it for multi-engine training (N-1 operations).
Now the second issue concerns the current situation of the manufacturer. Some serious aviation consultants seems convinced the production will stop within 6 months as it will probably face similar bankruptcy problems as Adams and Grob. While Cessna & Embraer can afford to develop such products thanks to their strong experience and wide product range (balancing development costs), developing a full production of a new jet aircraft was quite a tough challenge. With all respect to these ambitious developpers, their unrealistic vision of the situation, encouraged by enthusiastic (and irresponsible) operators lead them to a dead end.
Day Jet sold 28 of its Eclipse for $500k each while the manufacturer had to adjust its prices by almost 1 Million USD. In the meantime the Turkish MyJet is having 200% trust in this program and orders 120 aircrafts for its air taxi program...
The VLJ industry is suffering from a highly speculative marketing just like the real estate industry in the UAE. The ending will probably be similar as all the actors prefers to keep denying the reality while the curtain is closing. There must be one very happy guy who enjoyed loads of commissions by recommending this machine in the Middle East but I wouldn't like to be one of the buyers.
Once again it's only my personnal point of view. I would have recommended turboprops for a flight academy due to much higher flat ratings in hot climate and lower fuel consumptions. I guess no other flight academy in the world made a similar decision... it must mean something.
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Ah .Aero so you really mean the Diamonds and not the Pipers and Cessnas. Then why didn't you say so in the first place? Which Middle East training aircraft were built in the early seventies? You say there are quite a few - perhaps you can point them out. And maybe you can post the POH entry that limits PA28 ops to ISA+30.
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Sispansys,
Eclipse Aviation like so many other companies out there are having a hard time with their finances. I don't know what the financing agreement was between DAE & Eclipse Aviation or what the agreed timetable for delivery was, but I hear first delivery is earmarked for Q1/2009 ?
EA are optimistic about the influx of orders they'll now be able to secure from Europe as they've just received their EASA certification and according to press statements, employees are back at work again. I believe their new business model relies less on orders from air taxi start ups.
As for performance, both the SR22 G3 & the EA500 will out-perform most other training aircraft on the market. They both have great climb rates and cruise speeds, and they'll have no problem getting above mucky weather rather quickly. No more waiting to get to 5,000 ft to practice stalls - no more waiting to get to your designated training area.
Don't forget, the EA500 will only be carrying a student & an instructor with no baggage. Factory seating options are 5 or 6 places.
DAE obviously have deep pockets here!
Eclipse Aviation like so many other companies out there are having a hard time with their finances. I don't know what the financing agreement was between DAE & Eclipse Aviation or what the agreed timetable for delivery was, but I hear first delivery is earmarked for Q1/2009 ?
EA are optimistic about the influx of orders they'll now be able to secure from Europe as they've just received their EASA certification and according to press statements, employees are back at work again. I believe their new business model relies less on orders from air taxi start ups.
As for performance, both the SR22 G3 & the EA500 will out-perform most other training aircraft on the market. They both have great climb rates and cruise speeds, and they'll have no problem getting above mucky weather rather quickly. No more waiting to get to 5,000 ft to practice stalls - no more waiting to get to your designated training area.
Don't forget, the EA500 will only be carrying a student & an instructor with no baggage. Factory seating options are 5 or 6 places.
DAE obviously have deep pockets here!
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the EA500 will out-perform most other training aircraft on the market.
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Aircraft choice
A fleet of Senecas or Seminoles would not have been the answer to what DAE were looking for. The airlines have been saying they want pilots who have been trained in an airline orientated environment, with glass cockpit exposure. DAE wants to take that a step further and introduce real jet time from the start. These EA500s are going to be put to good use.
I know the academy are talking to aviation authorities in the region as they plan on flying abroad with their EA500s. This was something they reiterated. They want their students to fly pressurized jets, charting international airways, crossing FIR boundaries, and landing at foreign airports. What flight school offers such experiences as part of their CPL/IR training?
Traditional multi-engined trainers would simply not deliver. DAE are taking a different approach to flight training and they've obviously got the money to do so.
SR22s don't come cheap either - they cost over $1/4 million a pop!
I know the academy are talking to aviation authorities in the region as they plan on flying abroad with their EA500s. This was something they reiterated. They want their students to fly pressurized jets, charting international airways, crossing FIR boundaries, and landing at foreign airports. What flight school offers such experiences as part of their CPL/IR training?
Traditional multi-engined trainers would simply not deliver. DAE are taking a different approach to flight training and they've obviously got the money to do so.
SR22s don't come cheap either - they cost over $1/4 million a pop!
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I don't get your point. Crossing FIRs and landing in foreign (other arabic) countries have nothing to do with the main purpose of the CPL-IR (such as using a pressurization system). As a matter of fact I used to fly international destinations during my CPL-IR in Europe, DAE is not gonna initiate a revolution. Mixing up CPL-IR, mutli engine and jet training will not nescessarly mean pilots would be better airbus pilots with 250 TT than "classic" students.
Beside this, the aircraft is limited to 48 celsius and using the pressurization will probably badly deteriorate the performances you may have heard about the Eclipse. I really want to see its EO RoC in summer and how long the engines will last. Lets first wait for the aircrafts to be delivered.
As you said DAE must really have a lot of money to spend in an aircraft having a $2 million yearly depreciation...
Beside this, the aircraft is limited to 48 celsius and using the pressurization will probably badly deteriorate the performances you may have heard about the Eclipse. I really want to see its EO RoC in summer and how long the engines will last. Lets first wait for the aircrafts to be delivered.
As you said DAE must really have a lot of money to spend in an aircraft having a $2 million yearly depreciation...
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And maybe you can post the POH entry that limits PA28 ops to ISA+30. Cant find it,
The limitation is for human not machine,so what is the human limit where this thing is?
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Where are we now?!
Hey guys...wait a second!
you all have very good technical data here...and this is really amazing coz I think only limited number of people in the middle east are heavily invovled in this sort of info...but this is not my point really...I just wish that we don't drift away from the main question...however, all your inputs are still highly appreciated
Cheers
you all have very good technical data here...and this is really amazing coz I think only limited number of people in the middle east are heavily invovled in this sort of info...but this is not my point really...I just wish that we don't drift away from the main question...however, all your inputs are still highly appreciated
Cheers
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Sispanys,
Your quite right in your suggestion. Their integrated course (now GCAA approved) was actually modeled on existing integrated ATP(a) criteria found in Subpart D of JAR-FCL1. The completed curriculum of training at DAE will actually surpasses JAR training requirements by approximately 20-30%.
The primary objectives of the CPL/IR will still be met during the course of training.
Secondary to this will be the experiences you gain having a acheived those objectives using modern and complex aircraft, the EA500 in this case.
Now I'm nothing more than a bystander here. Only time will tell if their 'system' of training impresses or otherwize.
Aim Hi,
All powerplants have climatic restrictions on both ends of their 'operational' ranges.
You wouldn't fly a C172 in -20°C temperatures without a winterization kit installed would you?
Crossing FIRs and landing in foreign (other arabic) countries have nothing to do with the main purpose of the CPL-IR (such as using a pressurization system).
The primary objectives of the CPL/IR will still be met during the course of training.
Secondary to this will be the experiences you gain having a acheived those objectives using modern and complex aircraft, the EA500 in this case.
Now I'm nothing more than a bystander here. Only time will tell if their 'system' of training impresses or otherwize.
Aim Hi,
All powerplants have climatic restrictions on both ends of their 'operational' ranges.
You wouldn't fly a C172 in -20°C temperatures without a winterization kit installed would you?
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Their integrated course (now GCAA approved) was actually modeled on existing integrated ATP(a) criteria found in Subpart D of JAR-FCL1. The completed curriculum of training at DAE will actually surpasses JAR training requirements by approximately 20-30%.
I would instead recommend to get a JAR CPL-IR...because I'm not sure the GCAA CPL-IR would be helpful in Europe.
All powerplants have climatic restrictions on both ends of their 'operational' ranges.
You wouldn't fly a C172 in -20°C temperatures without a winterization kit installed would you?
You wouldn't fly a C172 in -20°C temperatures without a winterization kit installed would you?
SilverR5 you're right but I think this interesting conversation is also related to the academy...
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I don't really get the point of working harder than for a JAR license if it's only to get a GCAA one
Voluntarily sculpting your syllabi to meet that of JAR ensures:
- The licencing requirements are in line with local regulations. Allot of the NAAs/ANSPs in the Middle East such as (DGCAM, BCAA, GCAA) are adopting JAA-FCL & JAR-OPS and implementing them into the local statutory books.
- Potential for JAA approval in the future. This as you know already exists around the world in countries like Australia (WAAC), Canada (MFC) etc. The regulatory processes needed for such approvals are greatly reduced when the FTO in question has voluntarily aligned it's OPS+REGS to comply with that of JAR from day one. When DAE becomes a JAA approved FTO in the future (which I know is being considered at the moment), this will open them up to the European market and they'll be competing alongside other JAA approved schools.
- Choice of licensing streams. If they do become JAA-approved, they will likely offer GCAA licences alongside JAA-issued ones.
- Ease of conversions in the interim. DAE graduates with GCAA fATPLs might wish to convert their licences to a JAA fATPLs in the future. This process will be easier when you have been trained to JAA criteria. Someone who has trained to the tune of FARs for example might find this conversion process a little more "involved".
