Flight deck positions at FlyDubai Master Thread - Merged
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Jony I personally suggest that you are the one who wants to check his attitude not Otto.
Seems to me that he just made a reasonably funny comment because your question is pretty much unanswerable.
Dubaigong tried to help you and you haven't really gotten the hint. I have partially answered your question in my post as well.
We don't know what country you are from, your background, your exepreience, your hours, your level of English. We are getting an idea of your personaiity type but the fact is that even if we had all of that material infront of us, even then it would still be subjective for the reasons that dubaigong mentions.
You also come across as not wanting to explain your circumstances. Why would an A320 currently qualified pilot want to go back to square 1 in FZ. You have the hourss to apply to EK if you have the hours to apply to FZ and would move to widebody. If you want short haul and want to stay on rosters taht get you home then look at the Emirate up the road with the 787 and QR. They both have A320 fleets and options for later if you want to go longhaul.
FZ isn't the sort of airline where you go unless you need something from it. If you are unemployed, need a job now, aren't European and were a Boeing pilot then FZ may make some sense if not there are just so many better options such as QR, EK, etc
FZ is rather like an Easter egg, it is all shiny and pretty on the outside but pretty hollow on the inside. Staff travel is pretty crap compared to other ME carriers.
Your roster as a new guy will be frickin awful, you will be treated like **** and if you have a family you are going to struggle as the cost of living overall is rising waay faster than the pay and they simply do not care.
The most often heard phrase from the chief pilot is, " If you don't like it, then leave"
From the reaction you gave otto and dubaigong you don't come across as the sort of pilot who would be happy in that environment. If however we're all missing something then apply away. As for which location? like I and two others said we would need more info to make a call but at the end of the day even with the info its still a how long is a piece of string question.
Lastly if you are applying to an airline, read the thread as questions like how is the sim/selection/etc have been answered so many times in this thread. It just makes you look lazy!
Seems to me that he just made a reasonably funny comment because your question is pretty much unanswerable.
Dubaigong tried to help you and you haven't really gotten the hint. I have partially answered your question in my post as well.
We don't know what country you are from, your background, your exepreience, your hours, your level of English. We are getting an idea of your personaiity type but the fact is that even if we had all of that material infront of us, even then it would still be subjective for the reasons that dubaigong mentions.
You also come across as not wanting to explain your circumstances. Why would an A320 currently qualified pilot want to go back to square 1 in FZ. You have the hourss to apply to EK if you have the hours to apply to FZ and would move to widebody. If you want short haul and want to stay on rosters taht get you home then look at the Emirate up the road with the 787 and QR. They both have A320 fleets and options for later if you want to go longhaul.
FZ isn't the sort of airline where you go unless you need something from it. If you are unemployed, need a job now, aren't European and were a Boeing pilot then FZ may make some sense if not there are just so many better options such as QR, EK, etc
FZ is rather like an Easter egg, it is all shiny and pretty on the outside but pretty hollow on the inside. Staff travel is pretty crap compared to other ME carriers.
Your roster as a new guy will be frickin awful, you will be treated like **** and if you have a family you are going to struggle as the cost of living overall is rising waay faster than the pay and they simply do not care.
The most often heard phrase from the chief pilot is, " If you don't like it, then leave"
From the reaction you gave otto and dubaigong you don't come across as the sort of pilot who would be happy in that environment. If however we're all missing something then apply away. As for which location? like I and two others said we would need more info to make a call but at the end of the day even with the info its still a how long is a piece of string question.
Lastly if you are applying to an airline, read the thread as questions like how is the sim/selection/etc have been answered so many times in this thread. It just makes you look lazy!
2- I'm unemployed now.
3- Yes, I'm experienced.
+5.000,00 hours on Jets > 55t.
4- Why not QR or EK? Because I don't want neither QR or EK or EY
5- Why FZ? Why not A320? Simply because I want to live in Dubai and fly B737 for FZ. Believe me, there's a lot of worst places to work for.
6- Why? Are you Crazy? Yes, i'm, definitely. Because i want, because I can, because I'll do it.
Any questions?
Last edited by JonyBGood; 14th Jun 2016 at 07:18.
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With this kind of attitude I am not sure that you will manage to pass the screening for FZ wherever you choose to go but good luck anyway...
Should you pass the screening then if you react the same way on the aircraft it will be a real problem for you to adapt to the multicultural environment that you will be facing in FZ.
Should you pass the screening then if you react the same way on the aircraft it will be a real problem for you to adapt to the multicultural environment that you will be facing in FZ.
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With this kind of attitude I am not sure that you will manage to pass the screening for FZ wherever you choose to go but good luck anyway...
Should you pass the screening then if you react the same way on the aircraft it will be a real problem for you to adapt to the multicultural environment that you will be facing in FZ.
Should you pass the screening then if you react the same way on the aircraft it will be a real problem for you to adapt to the multicultural environment that you will be facing in FZ.
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Someone asked about flight deck culture. For the most part it's a good work environment, however the company is hiring more DECs that have limited CRM skills, mostly because they come from cultures that never taught respect for fellow pilot, i.e. When I was Jr the Captains were sh1t to me so I am going to be sh1t to you! Some of the guys that upgraded after failing several times at their European airline are a handful to fly with as well, they think they know it all and are here to teach you even though they are not a LTC. I'll even be sexist and say we have a couple lady cAPTAINS that can't handle the male dominated work environment and then overcompensate by making sure you know THEY are in charge. Most people come to work now with the attitude to just get the job done and go home. It's not fun or even interesting to be here anymore. Without fail, every new guy I've flown with lately has said flydubai was their LAST option and only place that would hire them, either for failing all other assessments or because they do not have any experience to qualify any place else. Not exactly an airline attracting the best candidates. Anyone thinking they will come here and "it won't be that bad" or "there are worse places" please withdraw your application now. This turd ain't worth it. It won't get better. The management can have all the meetings they want with line pilots to "discuss" secret changes that will be coming one day, but sad fact is the salary is pathetic and if you have family you most likely drowned in debt if you try to make a go of it here as an FO. Good luck!
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Match made in Valhalla!
Combine what Lostin T2 said, with which I mostly sadly and wholeheartedly concur with plus the fact that when I was an FO and I did bring any of this to light the reaction wasn't exactly ,"Thank you for your candour, it must be hard to write a report such as this. We have had the same captain reported over 20 times including for actually striking an FO, for taking a plane against the FOs wishes with an MEL which wasn't going to help on braking action poor onto a snowy/icy shortened runway for landing and only just making it/ for throwing tantrums generally and pissing off her entire crew!"
Add this to a Captain nicknamed Captain Death because you wondered if he was going to try and kill you. Add this to the Captain who thought it was fine to land F15 on a normal basis as there was insufficient time to get more flaps down rather than go around. Add this to the captain who thought adding temp corrections was a waste of time. Add this to the Captains who wont listen to more expereienced FOs suggestions like configuring before descent in Kathmandu or Kabul resulting in numerous higly unstable go arounds ( often mishandled) and add all of that to a company where a couple of instructors had less knowledge than some cadets and even less CRM. (Sidebar there were/are some lovely, oustanding, knowledgeable and helpful captains both male and female there and also some excellent instructors. The captains and instructors mentioned above were by far the minority but they minority was growing unchecked and even in the face of overwhelming evidence nobody cared enough to stop the rot!)
So when you add this to poor rostering for the bottom 50% at least of the airline and poor commensurate pay if you have a family in Dubai.
I suggest you take your attitude and join FZ JonyBG you will be welcomed with open arms. You sound like you will fit right in. In fact apply as a DEC they likely won't notice its not like CRM is a requirement for DECs.
Oh btw if you think there a lot worse places to fly for you havent been around that much. Yes you get paid on pay day, which to be fair I hadnt always had but that was why it was a step up for me. I cannot begin to tell you where my quality of life is now compared to last year this time and it isn't just the money and being widebody in a grown up airline it is actually having a voice!
Re selection DXB isn't a choice, unless things have changed it is SOU/IST and DXB for final interview either way. I suggest you take IST from what you said because I want you to get in you and the airline deserve each other!
Your profile makes no sense to me for wanting to go to FZ at the stage you are at but hey its your life. Ask yourself how many pilots in the last 7 years have left EK to go to FZ and how many the other way and you will likely see I'm with the group vote here but hey it could all just be risky shift eh!
Good luck, you won't need it though!
VT
Add this to a Captain nicknamed Captain Death because you wondered if he was going to try and kill you. Add this to the Captain who thought it was fine to land F15 on a normal basis as there was insufficient time to get more flaps down rather than go around. Add this to the captain who thought adding temp corrections was a waste of time. Add this to the Captains who wont listen to more expereienced FOs suggestions like configuring before descent in Kathmandu or Kabul resulting in numerous higly unstable go arounds ( often mishandled) and add all of that to a company where a couple of instructors had less knowledge than some cadets and even less CRM. (Sidebar there were/are some lovely, oustanding, knowledgeable and helpful captains both male and female there and also some excellent instructors. The captains and instructors mentioned above were by far the minority but they minority was growing unchecked and even in the face of overwhelming evidence nobody cared enough to stop the rot!)
So when you add this to poor rostering for the bottom 50% at least of the airline and poor commensurate pay if you have a family in Dubai.
I suggest you take your attitude and join FZ JonyBG you will be welcomed with open arms. You sound like you will fit right in. In fact apply as a DEC they likely won't notice its not like CRM is a requirement for DECs.
Oh btw if you think there a lot worse places to fly for you havent been around that much. Yes you get paid on pay day, which to be fair I hadnt always had but that was why it was a step up for me. I cannot begin to tell you where my quality of life is now compared to last year this time and it isn't just the money and being widebody in a grown up airline it is actually having a voice!
Re selection DXB isn't a choice, unless things have changed it is SOU/IST and DXB for final interview either way. I suggest you take IST from what you said because I want you to get in you and the airline deserve each other!
Your profile makes no sense to me for wanting to go to FZ at the stage you are at but hey its your life. Ask yourself how many pilots in the last 7 years have left EK to go to FZ and how many the other way and you will likely see I'm with the group vote here but hey it could all just be risky shift eh!
Good luck, you won't need it though!
VT
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737 Max
So with the 737 Max program which is ahead of schedule per Boeing and deliveries for many airlines who have ordered it are looking at getting them earlier ,what has FD opted to do take earlier deliveries or wait till scheduled delivery date?
Also how many 737 Max is FD getting in 2017?
Also how many 737 Max is FD getting in 2017?
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VT
Can you tell us more of your experience? It's not a great picture you paint, is there no appreciation for FO inputs? After all fo's are there to stop Captains from ••••ing it up for all of us???
Can you tell us more of your experience? It's not a great picture you paint, is there no appreciation for FO inputs? After all fo's are there to stop Captains from ••••ing it up for all of us???
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Dio,
I am not sure that you understand the modern flight deck operation...
No " the First Officer is not there to stop Captains from ....ing it up for all of us " and the Captains are not there to stop First Officer from ....ing for all of them either.
Today you have two flight crews with different level of experience on the flight deck to manage the flight , one has the final authority ( the commander ) and the other trying ( most of the time ) to get more experience to be ready for the upgrade on the left.
Appart from that it is two qualified pilots , one acting as pilot flying and the other as pilot monitoring to support the pilot flying and the roles are reversed on the next sector.
I hope you will understand that as it is the only way to fly safe.
It is not ( anymore ) one boss and a slave , people with that state of mind should be banned from any flight deck ( both sides , Captain and First Officer )
I am not sure that you understand the modern flight deck operation...
No " the First Officer is not there to stop Captains from ....ing it up for all of us " and the Captains are not there to stop First Officer from ....ing for all of them either.
Today you have two flight crews with different level of experience on the flight deck to manage the flight , one has the final authority ( the commander ) and the other trying ( most of the time ) to get more experience to be ready for the upgrade on the left.
Appart from that it is two qualified pilots , one acting as pilot flying and the other as pilot monitoring to support the pilot flying and the roles are reversed on the next sector.
I hope you will understand that as it is the only way to fly safe.
It is not ( anymore ) one boss and a slave , people with that state of mind should be banned from any flight deck ( both sides , Captain and First Officer )
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So with the 737 Max program which is ahead of schedule per Boeing and deliveries for many airlines who have ordered it are looking at getting them earlier ,what has FD opted to do take earlier deliveries or wait till scheduled delivery date?
Also how many 737 Max is FD getting in 2017?
Also how many 737 Max is FD getting in 2017?
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Best solution for FO's facing a steep authority gradient is to just tell the PIC he is welcome to be PF on both sectors it will save a lot of hassle for you and besides there are tons more flights ahead of you when you will get a more compassionate PIC who appreciates that there is more than one way to fly an aircraft.
From what I hear most of the arguments are about descent and approach at FZ.
There are many different ways and styles to fly a 737 so long as they are safe and within limitations the other flight crew should respect this and not try and intervene with his/her style of flying.
There are more and more ASR's with crew arguments lately only about 30% are being reported and documented.
This type of problem is becoming more and more serious at FZ.
From what I hear most of the arguments are about descent and approach at FZ.
There are many different ways and styles to fly a 737 so long as they are safe and within limitations the other flight crew should respect this and not try and intervene with his/her style of flying.
There are more and more ASR's with crew arguments lately only about 30% are being reported and documented.
This type of problem is becoming more and more serious at FZ.
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Thank you Dubaigong!
Dio - If you read my post through you will see that I did make an effort to explain that this culture was a small minority.
The top end of the seniority list has some very very highly experienced and respected instructors, examiners and Captains AND FOs. (I know and have flown with a handful who chose quite specifically to not upgrade for rostering/professional reasons)
Some of these guys have been flying Boeing since Pontius was a pilot and I was honoured to have them bring me on and help me on my joirney in aviation both before, during and now even still after my time at FZ.
Also in the mid and bottom tiers of seniority there are good numbers of more than up to the job pilots by any standards. However there remains a significant and growing majority or more and more recent hires who are clearly demonstrative of the bar having been lowered. For the most the new upgrades were on average better than most of the DECs after a certain hiring point BUT and I caveat this was also lkely to exposure and experience to the region being very very important and DECs coming from one area having not flown to the sort of destinations that are FZ every day stops found themselves lacking and sadly sometimes unwilling to listen to FOs who had flown into same destinations for years.
I remember flying with some great FOs who had been passed over due to clearly arbitrary and spurious subjective CRM markers. The fact was as an FO if you had one of the TREs who was nice/fair you were fairly treated. However if you let's say a certain arabic speaking instructor you could be set back a year for upgrade for not doing something the captain should have done.
Before any one shouts were you one of the afflicted? Nope I merely point it out on behalf of at least 4 good friends all of whom became skippers at FZ and funnily enough. One of those has gone to EK, two to China and another back to UK.
All of them went on to bigger and better things very quickly after having been held bakc for a year when they were by all accounts well above the standard!
But hey what would I know. Im not a TRE!
Dio - If you read my post through you will see that I did make an effort to explain that this culture was a small minority.
The top end of the seniority list has some very very highly experienced and respected instructors, examiners and Captains AND FOs. (I know and have flown with a handful who chose quite specifically to not upgrade for rostering/professional reasons)
Some of these guys have been flying Boeing since Pontius was a pilot and I was honoured to have them bring me on and help me on my joirney in aviation both before, during and now even still after my time at FZ.
Also in the mid and bottom tiers of seniority there are good numbers of more than up to the job pilots by any standards. However there remains a significant and growing majority or more and more recent hires who are clearly demonstrative of the bar having been lowered. For the most the new upgrades were on average better than most of the DECs after a certain hiring point BUT and I caveat this was also lkely to exposure and experience to the region being very very important and DECs coming from one area having not flown to the sort of destinations that are FZ every day stops found themselves lacking and sadly sometimes unwilling to listen to FOs who had flown into same destinations for years.
I remember flying with some great FOs who had been passed over due to clearly arbitrary and spurious subjective CRM markers. The fact was as an FO if you had one of the TREs who was nice/fair you were fairly treated. However if you let's say a certain arabic speaking instructor you could be set back a year for upgrade for not doing something the captain should have done.
Before any one shouts were you one of the afflicted? Nope I merely point it out on behalf of at least 4 good friends all of whom became skippers at FZ and funnily enough. One of those has gone to EK, two to China and another back to UK.
All of them went on to bigger and better things very quickly after having been held bakc for a year when they were by all accounts well above the standard!
But hey what would I know. Im not a TRE!
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I would like to hear from anyone that just did an assessment in IST in the past couple days directly on the sim. Are you still required to go to Dubai for the rest of the group discussion BS or you are pretty much in if you nail the sim and some basic q&a??