Flight deck positions at FlyDubai Master Thread - Merged
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MIA Assessment 23 FEB
If anyone else is planning to be in MIA for the 23rd or 24th assessment, I will have a rental car. I am staying at the Holiday Inn Express KMIA. If you would like to get together and share your experience with the process, let me know. I would be happy to give you a ride if you need one. PM me if you like.
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Skysod really?
Skysod.
Yes we know some of the destinations as not our first choice. Yes we know some could even be considered a bit "tasty".
Lets be honest though. We all know just like there are three useless things in aviation there are also three certainties in life.
Inevitability number one that you have in life is that at some time you will die the next other certainty in life is that you will pay taxes. The last we all know and love is that if you buy a nurse more than two drinks on a night out you will get lucky.
Every other thing in life is uncertain.
With FZ we do however know that we get paid, what is in the contract and we get paid it on time. My pay has been late once by 48 hrs in 3 years. In quite literally every other airline I have worked in the pay has been incorrect, late or non existent. They also pay us more than BA and Lufthansa captains in the RHS of a B737 and more than double many European airlines when we are in the LHS.
So yeah we might get killed, c'est la vie! If Mrs VT gets the life insurance and the mini VTs school fees get paid then I've done my job dead or alive and they get the money. That is the reason that I put the time and effort into my career and is comfort enough for me. So if you are unhappy with the situation then leave! But don't try and put people who may not be so experienced i the region off.
The choices are simple, they give us money we decide if we accept the risk, it is hardly hidden. If we want the cash then that is the risk that comes with it. They have a choice when they join and don't have to join if you or they have better options then good for them.
Can you tell me of a better B737 job anywhere on the planet in a country where you would actually want to live?
Just for info as you clearly aren't in the know! Tin helmets are a little bit WW1. They went to steel for WW2 and have been carbon kevlar for many years now!
Yes we know some of the destinations as not our first choice. Yes we know some could even be considered a bit "tasty".
Lets be honest though. We all know just like there are three useless things in aviation there are also three certainties in life.
Inevitability number one that you have in life is that at some time you will die the next other certainty in life is that you will pay taxes. The last we all know and love is that if you buy a nurse more than two drinks on a night out you will get lucky.
Every other thing in life is uncertain.
With FZ we do however know that we get paid, what is in the contract and we get paid it on time. My pay has been late once by 48 hrs in 3 years. In quite literally every other airline I have worked in the pay has been incorrect, late or non existent. They also pay us more than BA and Lufthansa captains in the RHS of a B737 and more than double many European airlines when we are in the LHS.
So yeah we might get killed, c'est la vie! If Mrs VT gets the life insurance and the mini VTs school fees get paid then I've done my job dead or alive and they get the money. That is the reason that I put the time and effort into my career and is comfort enough for me. So if you are unhappy with the situation then leave! But don't try and put people who may not be so experienced i the region off.
The choices are simple, they give us money we decide if we accept the risk, it is hardly hidden. If we want the cash then that is the risk that comes with it. They have a choice when they join and don't have to join if you or they have better options then good for them.
Can you tell me of a better B737 job anywhere on the planet in a country where you would actually want to live?
Just for info as you clearly aren't in the know! Tin helmets are a little bit WW1. They went to steel for WW2 and have been carbon kevlar for many years now!
Last edited by Vortex Thing; 9th Feb 2015 at 08:08.
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Flydubai Assestment experience
Hi guys,
I want to share my experience with the Flydubai assesment in Istambul.
First: Presentation of the company as usual by Human Resources general manager. Standard like always. We were 4 guys, two spanish, one indian and one indionesian.
Second: Group exercise. first exercise we had to give ideas to the company for their expansion, second exercise to take 15 object from a list of items they provide we were in a desert island. Discuss about everything with the rest of the group and take decitions.
Lunch time. after lunch one guy knock out
Third: Afternoon, personal interview. We were asked about everything, personal and professional questions like usual.
After this, another guy out.
SECOND DAY
Simulator test. We were only two first officers so they sit both of us in the sim. Take off from Muscat airport Runway 26 climb until 3000īft (No AP, FD and AT, thats mean fully manually), turn right intercept radial 320 of Muscat VOR. Then radar vectors for a RAW DATA approach RWY 26. Minimums you will not see RWY in sight so GO AROUND procedure. ENG Fail during go around. I continue flying and compensate the asymmetric power until flap retraction altitude (in their profiles 1500FT) then memory items and request from the other first officer ENG FAIL checklist (there was no fire/damage eng). Then they stop the simulator and they explain the second part of the simulator. We could use Autopilot in this phase. Second approach it was a LOC approach RWY 26 with ONE ENG. VNAV available. I completed the approach and in short final APU fire. I landed the airplane (ON GS all the time) stopped in the center of the runway and applied memory items for the APU fire. We call the tower and they said we had fire and smoke in the tail so Evacuation was necessary. I called for the checklist emergency evacuation and advise to evacuate for the forward exits of the plane.
We applied the checklist and finish the session. Small break and my colleague did his session and I did as PM.
Both of us fail the simulator. I feel very sad and I donīt understand why. There was 3 british TRI/TRE plus the girl of the agency back in our sim session. They donīt provide any feedback but it seems to be something wrong during my emergency evacuation exercise.
Now my feeling of everything. I thought that we did both a good job in the sim, taking into account that both of us are first officer I think we have to be evaluated as first officers. In the briefing all the time they repeat you all the time do not worry about your SOPs, we only want to see your flying skills and CRM blablabla... it is not true. Honestly I donīt know what they are looking from me? I think we operate the airplane in a very safe manner all the time. We tried to coordinate ourselves and we did it. Our call outs were differents as well as our SOPs but finally we did a good job. Very strange everything, very very strange. I can not recommend any friend to assist the process, for me it is not fair.
So keep pushing my friends and try to forget this bad experience in my life.
Cheers and good luck for everybody.
I want to share my experience with the Flydubai assesment in Istambul.
First: Presentation of the company as usual by Human Resources general manager. Standard like always. We were 4 guys, two spanish, one indian and one indionesian.
Second: Group exercise. first exercise we had to give ideas to the company for their expansion, second exercise to take 15 object from a list of items they provide we were in a desert island. Discuss about everything with the rest of the group and take decitions.
Lunch time. after lunch one guy knock out
Third: Afternoon, personal interview. We were asked about everything, personal and professional questions like usual.
After this, another guy out.
SECOND DAY
Simulator test. We were only two first officers so they sit both of us in the sim. Take off from Muscat airport Runway 26 climb until 3000īft (No AP, FD and AT, thats mean fully manually), turn right intercept radial 320 of Muscat VOR. Then radar vectors for a RAW DATA approach RWY 26. Minimums you will not see RWY in sight so GO AROUND procedure. ENG Fail during go around. I continue flying and compensate the asymmetric power until flap retraction altitude (in their profiles 1500FT) then memory items and request from the other first officer ENG FAIL checklist (there was no fire/damage eng). Then they stop the simulator and they explain the second part of the simulator. We could use Autopilot in this phase. Second approach it was a LOC approach RWY 26 with ONE ENG. VNAV available. I completed the approach and in short final APU fire. I landed the airplane (ON GS all the time) stopped in the center of the runway and applied memory items for the APU fire. We call the tower and they said we had fire and smoke in the tail so Evacuation was necessary. I called for the checklist emergency evacuation and advise to evacuate for the forward exits of the plane.
We applied the checklist and finish the session. Small break and my colleague did his session and I did as PM.
Both of us fail the simulator. I feel very sad and I donīt understand why. There was 3 british TRI/TRE plus the girl of the agency back in our sim session. They donīt provide any feedback but it seems to be something wrong during my emergency evacuation exercise.
Now my feeling of everything. I thought that we did both a good job in the sim, taking into account that both of us are first officer I think we have to be evaluated as first officers. In the briefing all the time they repeat you all the time do not worry about your SOPs, we only want to see your flying skills and CRM blablabla... it is not true. Honestly I donīt know what they are looking from me? I think we operate the airplane in a very safe manner all the time. We tried to coordinate ourselves and we did it. Our call outs were differents as well as our SOPs but finally we did a good job. Very strange everything, very very strange. I can not recommend any friend to assist the process, for me it is not fair.
So keep pushing my friends and try to forget this bad experience in my life.
Cheers and good luck for everybody.
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@samca
First of all , Im sorry you didn't get the job. Hopefully this is a reality check for you and hopefully realize that there are not superior pilots out there, we all fly to the best of our abilities and always with the idea of coming back to our loved ones. Cheers and good luck on your career.
First of all , Im sorry you didn't get the job. Hopefully this is a reality check for you and hopefully realize that there are not superior pilots out there, we all fly to the best of our abilities and always with the idea of coming back to our loved ones. Cheers and good luck on your career.
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Thank you very much Gusz, this things sometimes happened and you don't know why. But still having confident in me and I have others assestments so let see what happen
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No restrictions 'officially'. We have pilots from Iranian origin, but they all have 2nd nationalities (passports). I don't think we have any Iranian pilots from Iran with Iranian passports only. I might be wrong though.
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Samca,
They want pilots and assessments cost a lot of money. You say there were 3 TRI/TREs there and the chances are that they all had a good chat afterwards as to how they thought you had done.
There is always more to it than just flying the plane and it is likely that they weren't happy with your communication, CRM, decision making, etc rather than it having anything to do with your physically ability to fly the plane.
They would also expect experience and decision making commensurate with your experience level so if you are a 3000hr B737 Pilot then the reality is that they would expect you to make decisions and fly like a captain. If you were 501hrs on type and 1501hrs TT then they will expect less from you.
One of the other prevalent things that is obvious from your post is that your English could have easily been a factor in all of this as well. I'm not saying it was as I wasn't there but it would have an effect if your spoken English is similar in standard to your written English.
Not getting through when you think that you should have does not automatically make a process unfair I have numerous friends here who were turned down by FZ and who are now at Emirates and Etihad so it may be that they also just didn't think that you would fit the airline.
You have also made numerous posts in the past about whether or not you thought it worthwhile to pay for assessment, whether the airline was far, whether it was for you or not due to family/staff travel/ commuting, etc, etc have a good look at yourself and see whether it was likely that any of that came through in your assessment overall. Did you answer the questions a bit hesitantly and seem unconvinced?
All of these things to an experienced recruiter show up much more easily that you would like to think it is likely that there was more to it than just the sim.
Good luck in wherever you end up but use the opportunity to reflect on how you conducted the entire selection process and take something away from it for when you go to Qatar, Etihad, Emirates etc interviews which I am sure you will aim for if/when you have the requirements.
They want pilots and assessments cost a lot of money. You say there were 3 TRI/TREs there and the chances are that they all had a good chat afterwards as to how they thought you had done.
There is always more to it than just flying the plane and it is likely that they weren't happy with your communication, CRM, decision making, etc rather than it having anything to do with your physically ability to fly the plane.
They would also expect experience and decision making commensurate with your experience level so if you are a 3000hr B737 Pilot then the reality is that they would expect you to make decisions and fly like a captain. If you were 501hrs on type and 1501hrs TT then they will expect less from you.
One of the other prevalent things that is obvious from your post is that your English could have easily been a factor in all of this as well. I'm not saying it was as I wasn't there but it would have an effect if your spoken English is similar in standard to your written English.
Not getting through when you think that you should have does not automatically make a process unfair I have numerous friends here who were turned down by FZ and who are now at Emirates and Etihad so it may be that they also just didn't think that you would fit the airline.
You have also made numerous posts in the past about whether or not you thought it worthwhile to pay for assessment, whether the airline was far, whether it was for you or not due to family/staff travel/ commuting, etc, etc have a good look at yourself and see whether it was likely that any of that came through in your assessment overall. Did you answer the questions a bit hesitantly and seem unconvinced?
All of these things to an experienced recruiter show up much more easily that you would like to think it is likely that there was more to it than just the sim.
Good luck in wherever you end up but use the opportunity to reflect on how you conducted the entire selection process and take something away from it for when you go to Qatar, Etihad, Emirates etc interviews which I am sure you will aim for if/when you have the requirements.
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Dear Vortex
If you are working in Flydubai you must know that It is a eliminatory proccess thats mean that if you don't pass the First exercise dynamic group your are out, if you don't pass the second one which is a personal interview IN ENGLISH you are out. I don't care my grammar you understand becouse It doesn't matter to much I was able to pass this 1 hour interview in english with british people making me all kind of questions. I've been flying 3 years with British pilots and I know you are very proud about your language but you must know It was not the reason. My level 5 was enough believe me. And It is enough each time that I Fly to USA, so you can be completly sure that my ENGLISH was not the problem during my simulator test. Becouse if they want Pilots with a perfect grammar just they would say level 6, and for this Assestment as far as I know level 4 is enough.
Second, i don't understand very good what yo say about my doubts and personal thinking expressed in other posted here in this forum. Do you think that influenced in something the sim? I don't think so. You are trying to look for reason to put over my shoulders that I fail the sim for myself and the people that did my check are fully fair and as I told you and repeat you It is very difficult to pass a simulator with 4 people back watching each decition you take.
Also I repeat you Vortex, you say that It is not only the flying skills what they are looking for, and as I said our CRM was very good taking into account our very different SOPs and standard call outs, we prepared for the sim the night before in the hotel looking for our differences and trying to see how to connect our Ops. So we flew, navigate and com safe, but not using flydubai procedures just our procedures, It always will be someone telling why you celan at this altitude instead this one, or why you do nothing in an engine flameout until flap retraction altitude, my answer is becouse I used the SOPs of my company and everybody in the briefing room were agree. My feeling as I said It is not fair at all becouse they try to be very friendly during the briefing and after in the sim they are going to look for any fail yo do for knocking down. It was not fair, very strange everything. Anyway It is my First Assestment after a long time and I expect more transparency for the rest. Let see,
Regards and happy flights
If you are working in Flydubai you must know that It is a eliminatory proccess thats mean that if you don't pass the First exercise dynamic group your are out, if you don't pass the second one which is a personal interview IN ENGLISH you are out. I don't care my grammar you understand becouse It doesn't matter to much I was able to pass this 1 hour interview in english with british people making me all kind of questions. I've been flying 3 years with British pilots and I know you are very proud about your language but you must know It was not the reason. My level 5 was enough believe me. And It is enough each time that I Fly to USA, so you can be completly sure that my ENGLISH was not the problem during my simulator test. Becouse if they want Pilots with a perfect grammar just they would say level 6, and for this Assestment as far as I know level 4 is enough.
Second, i don't understand very good what yo say about my doubts and personal thinking expressed in other posted here in this forum. Do you think that influenced in something the sim? I don't think so. You are trying to look for reason to put over my shoulders that I fail the sim for myself and the people that did my check are fully fair and as I told you and repeat you It is very difficult to pass a simulator with 4 people back watching each decition you take.
Also I repeat you Vortex, you say that It is not only the flying skills what they are looking for, and as I said our CRM was very good taking into account our very different SOPs and standard call outs, we prepared for the sim the night before in the hotel looking for our differences and trying to see how to connect our Ops. So we flew, navigate and com safe, but not using flydubai procedures just our procedures, It always will be someone telling why you celan at this altitude instead this one, or why you do nothing in an engine flameout until flap retraction altitude, my answer is becouse I used the SOPs of my company and everybody in the briefing room were agree. My feeling as I said It is not fair at all becouse they try to be very friendly during the briefing and after in the sim they are going to look for any fail yo do for knocking down. It was not fair, very strange everything. Anyway It is my First Assestment after a long time and I expect more transparency for the rest. Let see,
Regards and happy flights
Last edited by samca; 9th Feb 2015 at 09:39.
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Yes Samca,
I am more than aware what the recruitment process is for my own airline.
Re the process being eliminatory yes I accept that you can get cut at any stage in the process. This however does not mean that you have done anything other than meet the minimum standard required for that phase.
Here is an example let's say there are 4 phases all of which have a pass mark of 75%. It is entirely possible for someone to get 75% in every phase, or for someone to get 99% in every phase and from the outside you as a candidate would not see the difference. However the system is likely flexible enough that should someone say get 99% in 3 phases and get 74% in one of the last phases I am sure they would rethink what outcome they came to with that candidate. On the other hand if someone had actually just gotten through each phase then they may well say that though the general standard had been achieved there was not enough overall to make an offer. This would be normal for any company's selection process at this level.
Yes the company say we will accept Level 4. This however is not because that is what they seek. It is to not eliminate candidates who are well above that level but do not have a piece of paper saying so! That is the absolute minimum requirement, not what they are looking for.
Good example in the UK the Royal Air Force say they are looking for candidates with 5 GCSEs, the majority are university graduates or at least have A levels the British Army says they need 2x A Level's however 85% of cadets entering the academy are university graduates. The minimum is just like a flying one there is no requirement to go to it before you go around!
The logic of your argument is that you have an ATPL and a type rating therefore you should automatically pass the assessment as you can fly the plane legally! You say your English is no problem, chap I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings but have you read your last post. Don't be touchy about it accept it, yes lucky old me I'm a native English speaker, etc, etc but the fact is you are difficult to understand.
I was trying to offer you some encouragement and help for you as a fellow professional pilot. You take it however you like. The fact remains they didn't interview you for no reason, on paper you must have the requirements. The fact that YOU believe your sim performance was fine does not mean that they did. So the reality is that something somewhere in the selection process was not what they were looking for. I was simply suggesting you look at yourself and try and find what is was as if you believe that they simply did not select you for no reason then that would not entirely make sense. There must be a reason and you should endeavour to find it within yourself so that you can take it forward at your next selection. The reason is likely not just your sim. If however you wish to believe that they spent thousands of dollars putting you through a process to say NO just because they felt like it then you crack on with that and go back to being angry with me....
I am more than aware what the recruitment process is for my own airline.
Re the process being eliminatory yes I accept that you can get cut at any stage in the process. This however does not mean that you have done anything other than meet the minimum standard required for that phase.
Here is an example let's say there are 4 phases all of which have a pass mark of 75%. It is entirely possible for someone to get 75% in every phase, or for someone to get 99% in every phase and from the outside you as a candidate would not see the difference. However the system is likely flexible enough that should someone say get 99% in 3 phases and get 74% in one of the last phases I am sure they would rethink what outcome they came to with that candidate. On the other hand if someone had actually just gotten through each phase then they may well say that though the general standard had been achieved there was not enough overall to make an offer. This would be normal for any company's selection process at this level.
Yes the company say we will accept Level 4. This however is not because that is what they seek. It is to not eliminate candidates who are well above that level but do not have a piece of paper saying so! That is the absolute minimum requirement, not what they are looking for.
Good example in the UK the Royal Air Force say they are looking for candidates with 5 GCSEs, the majority are university graduates or at least have A levels the British Army says they need 2x A Level's however 85% of cadets entering the academy are university graduates. The minimum is just like a flying one there is no requirement to go to it before you go around!
The logic of your argument is that you have an ATPL and a type rating therefore you should automatically pass the assessment as you can fly the plane legally! You say your English is no problem, chap I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings but have you read your last post. Don't be touchy about it accept it, yes lucky old me I'm a native English speaker, etc, etc but the fact is you are difficult to understand.
I was trying to offer you some encouragement and help for you as a fellow professional pilot. You take it however you like. The fact remains they didn't interview you for no reason, on paper you must have the requirements. The fact that YOU believe your sim performance was fine does not mean that they did. So the reality is that something somewhere in the selection process was not what they were looking for. I was simply suggesting you look at yourself and try and find what is was as if you believe that they simply did not select you for no reason then that would not entirely make sense. There must be a reason and you should endeavour to find it within yourself so that you can take it forward at your next selection. The reason is likely not just your sim. If however you wish to believe that they spent thousands of dollars putting you through a process to say NO just because they felt like it then you crack on with that and go back to being angry with me....
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Samca,
Having read your post, I am of the opinion that your English is absolutely fine. In fact, I would go further and suggest it is better than some of the people I fly with.
I wouldn't take too much notice of what some people write on this thread.
Good luck with your job hunt.
WTD
Having read your post, I am of the opinion that your English is absolutely fine. In fact, I would go further and suggest it is better than some of the people I fly with.
I wouldn't take too much notice of what some people write on this thread.
Good luck with your job hunt.
WTD
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Can anyone shed any light on the recent assesment in Dubai at end of January I have a few friends who didn't pass their simulator & a few who have heard nothing for 2 weeks straight...
Is there a back log in the recruitment office? Just any information I could pass on to the hopefulls.
Is there a back log in the recruitment office? Just any information I could pass on to the hopefulls.
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Thank you very much what to do, I know what is happening here. Anyway I'll keep pushing and I'm completly sure everything will go fine in the following assestment.
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Perception versus Reality!
Skysod
Not so. It is not that I took the comment seriously. I appreciate sarcasm as much as the next man. I just thought that with the current hyperbole surrounding the issue to which you allude the timing was not as appropriate as it may be for a public forum.
Had you made the same comment to me down at the club over a drink. I would have laughed and likely joined in with some witty repartee. However we out here are party to life out here and those looking in from the outside do not find it quite so easy to distinguish mirth from angst.
Just my take.
What -to - Do
You are right there are people here with worse English than Samca. Two wrongs however do not make a right. To say his English is fine is simply not true and you know it. I purely said it could have been a contributing factor.
Most things are contributory straws to the camels back as opposed to outright back breakers in cases of assessments for fully qualified pilots but it is hardly unreasonable to surmise that it had absolutely no bearing on the outcome either be it for this particular day or any other future assessment IMHO.
Too Much
No news is good news with our assessment process. They are just very very undermanned and overwhelmed in recruitment.
Not so. It is not that I took the comment seriously. I appreciate sarcasm as much as the next man. I just thought that with the current hyperbole surrounding the issue to which you allude the timing was not as appropriate as it may be for a public forum.
Had you made the same comment to me down at the club over a drink. I would have laughed and likely joined in with some witty repartee. However we out here are party to life out here and those looking in from the outside do not find it quite so easy to distinguish mirth from angst.
Just my take.
What -to - Do
You are right there are people here with worse English than Samca. Two wrongs however do not make a right. To say his English is fine is simply not true and you know it. I purely said it could have been a contributing factor.
Most things are contributory straws to the camels back as opposed to outright back breakers in cases of assessments for fully qualified pilots but it is hardly unreasonable to surmise that it had absolutely no bearing on the outcome either be it for this particular day or any other future assessment IMHO.
Too Much
No news is good news with our assessment process. They are just very very undermanned and overwhelmed in recruitment.
Probably not true - QR has a no poaching policy with EK - very reliable source.
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Dear Vortex,
If your company thinks like you and my english is so very difficult to understand as you said, the best thing they can do It is to contract native english speakers pilots only, It is Easy. I don't share nothing you are exposing here sorry. And I'm more than happy not going there. But just remember something, with the economy in Europe getting better they will regret to threat professional pilots in this way. Rgds
If your company thinks like you and my english is so very difficult to understand as you said, the best thing they can do It is to contract native english speakers pilots only, It is Easy. I don't share nothing you are exposing here sorry. And I'm more than happy not going there. But just remember something, with the economy in Europe getting better they will regret to threat professional pilots in this way. Rgds
probably the same with FZ as well....
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Interviewing in Miami at the end of February with CTC. It sounds like it's just a Q&A, aptitude test, group exercise, "evidence based" interview, and then if I make day 2 a 737 sim ride. According to the email candidates selected in Miami won't have to go to visit Dubai prior to starting work. I'm suprised though that there is no medical screening at this stage or technical exam.
Also call me lazy but I can't go through this whole thread and find if we do get hired how do we convert our FAA ATP to a UAE certificate. Should we plan several months of training or just get a quick type in the 73 and good to go.
Also call me lazy but I can't go through this whole thread and find if we do get hired how do we convert our FAA ATP to a UAE certificate. Should we plan several months of training or just get a quick type in the 73 and good to go.