Flight deck positions at FlyDubai Master Thread - Merged
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SFLY,
It's not about having one or the other. This is about a pattern of behavior from flydubai, nothing more nothing less. From talking with some of the yanks, most still did have insurance in one form or another.....employed or not.
It's not about having one or the other. This is about a pattern of behavior from flydubai, nothing more nothing less. From talking with some of the yanks, most still did have insurance in one form or another.....employed or not.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: saudi arabia
Age: 37
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
regarding job
I am aeronautical engineer i am fresh graduate i have and type rating of boeing 737 ..is there any way to get inside fly dubai... i am right nnow in dubai.. can any one give some tips plzzz!!!!!!!1
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: limbo
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fork Handles
Can you elaborate on your comment a bit?...Firing Captains?..for good reason?..I'm thinking of applying, know about the "they don't have to have a reason" mindset, just wondering about what's going on
Can you elaborate on your comment a bit?...Firing Captains?..for good reason?..I'm thinking of applying, know about the "they don't have to have a reason" mindset, just wondering about what's going on
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Vegas
Age: 48
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ws737,
There is nothing to elaborate on because Forkhandles is talking out of his a**.
Do you have any substantiating facts or evidence that this has happened? Do you know someone personally who has been fired without just cause?
If so, how about we hear from him/her.
There is nothing to elaborate on because Forkhandles is talking out of his a**.
Do you have any substantiating facts or evidence that this has happened? Do you know someone personally who has been fired without just cause?
If so, how about we hear from him/her.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
trent,
I deleted my post for 2 reasons. you only hear what you want to hear and Im sure Randy bmc can counsel you adequately. Like i said enjoy.
Randy, re pm
Could you be any cheesier. No sour grapes matey. Just fact
I deleted my post for 2 reasons. you only hear what you want to hear and Im sure Randy bmc can counsel you adequately. Like i said enjoy.
Randy, re pm
Could you be any cheesier. No sour grapes matey. Just fact
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Spain
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Recruitment FD
Hello,
Beginning of January I received a call from FD to verify all my data ( flight hours and licence), my contact told me that it was positive and that I can expect an interview in Feb or March and that I will receive an e-mail with confirmation for the date...Since then I have received nothing. Can somebody on this forum confirm that's the long delay between the call and the e-mail is normal.
Also if somebody can give me advices on what tests to expect on the selection days and how to prepare myself, it would be appreciate.
Best Regards,
Beginning of January I received a call from FD to verify all my data ( flight hours and licence), my contact told me that it was positive and that I can expect an interview in Feb or March and that I will receive an e-mail with confirmation for the date...Since then I have received nothing. Can somebody on this forum confirm that's the long delay between the call and the e-mail is normal.
Also if somebody can give me advices on what tests to expect on the selection days and how to prepare myself, it would be appreciate.
Best Regards,
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: dubai
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ali,
I agree with some of what you say, Youre preaching to the converted, ie. I disagree with BA strikes etc, but I think its a little harsh to go around calling people a 'bunch of sissies' because things do not appear to be turning out as promised!
I assume you work for FD? I dont. Theres a few of us (LCC in the uk) that were interested as some colleagues have already gone to FD. Some are also heading to FR. (chalk and cheese!) I was curious about FD but surprised at the less than glowing feedback at this early stage. You obviously have useful inside info, perhaps you can share with those considering the move?
Not sure I or understand what youre getting at re punishing pilots with the rostering. (Have they done anything wrong?)
From what I hear its difficult to plan a life around the rosters and leave. Nothing wrong with expecting a life outside work in any job or industry eh? Any of the present ops/rostering systems can account for additional flights, changes, leave, training, expansion etc. In 2010 I cant really see why a roster has to be published just 5 days in advance in a scheduled airline with only 6 aircraft. Or why leave is allocated the month before its due. Stbys can cover unexpected flights, so there must be more to it.
Either way, Im sure it'll get on its feet soon enough. Good luck to all that have taken the plunge.
I agree with some of what you say, Youre preaching to the converted, ie. I disagree with BA strikes etc, but I think its a little harsh to go around calling people a 'bunch of sissies' because things do not appear to be turning out as promised!
I assume you work for FD? I dont. Theres a few of us (LCC in the uk) that were interested as some colleagues have already gone to FD. Some are also heading to FR. (chalk and cheese!) I was curious about FD but surprised at the less than glowing feedback at this early stage. You obviously have useful inside info, perhaps you can share with those considering the move?
Not sure I or understand what youre getting at re punishing pilots with the rostering. (Have they done anything wrong?)
From what I hear its difficult to plan a life around the rosters and leave. Nothing wrong with expecting a life outside work in any job or industry eh? Any of the present ops/rostering systems can account for additional flights, changes, leave, training, expansion etc. In 2010 I cant really see why a roster has to be published just 5 days in advance in a scheduled airline with only 6 aircraft. Or why leave is allocated the month before its due. Stbys can cover unexpected flights, so there must be more to it.
Either way, Im sure it'll get on its feet soon enough. Good luck to all that have taken the plunge.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: China
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With respect to their rosters, days off, and leave.
During the flydubai interview it was said that condensed blocks of flying would be complemented by extended blocks of days off. The suggestion being that the roster would provide enough days off in a row to allow short trips to your home overseas to be made on a reasonably frequent basis. A good number of pilots joined flydubai based exactly on that premise.
The reality however is that crews at flydubai get a roster that gives them a very even distribution of duties across the month. Some might just occasionally get 3 days off in a row, but more usually they get just 2 days off in a row. This type of roster provides practically no opportunity for a trip to Europe, USA or elsewhere. So do dream-on if you think you can join flydubai and get regular trips home outside of your leave periods.
Speaking of leave. Whilst bids for leave need to be submitted many months in advance, the crews are only informed if their leave has been granted when it is just weeks or days away. Booking tickets or trying to avail of staff travel, with Emirates or any other airline, at short notice is then not the easiest, or cheapest, or most guaranteed of travel options.
Many crew have had leave forced upon them, forcing them to use their leave allocation when they did not want to and thus disrupting their plans for leave later in the year, which always assumes that flydubai does not keep pulling the same ‘forced leave’ stunt time after time throughout the year, though they might be in breach of Article 76 of UAE Employment Law if they did that?!
They get no wrap around days either side of their leave days.
They get no early finish or late start duties around days off or leave, in fact just the opposite!
Their rosters are published only a few days before they are due to start.
They have no formal facility to provide a ‘requested day off’ in advance of a published roster. If they need a certain day off they can sometimes, though not always, achieve it by bothering Crewing to see if they can get a duty swap with someone else, and even then only two duty swaps are allowed per active roster.
They only get paper rosters. They have no ability to see their roster or request a duty swap via the internet.
They get lots of standby and reserve duties, for which they do not get paid as might be the case in the USA.
It is probably true to say that these shortcomings are not the fault of the Rostering department, as it is likely that they are only following orders handed down to them from those higher-up the chain of command.
The reality however is that crews at flydubai get a roster that gives them a very even distribution of duties across the month. Some might just occasionally get 3 days off in a row, but more usually they get just 2 days off in a row. This type of roster provides practically no opportunity for a trip to Europe, USA or elsewhere. So do dream-on if you think you can join flydubai and get regular trips home outside of your leave periods.
Speaking of leave. Whilst bids for leave need to be submitted many months in advance, the crews are only informed if their leave has been granted when it is just weeks or days away. Booking tickets or trying to avail of staff travel, with Emirates or any other airline, at short notice is then not the easiest, or cheapest, or most guaranteed of travel options.
Many crew have had leave forced upon them, forcing them to use their leave allocation when they did not want to and thus disrupting their plans for leave later in the year, which always assumes that flydubai does not keep pulling the same ‘forced leave’ stunt time after time throughout the year, though they might be in breach of Article 76 of UAE Employment Law if they did that?!
They get no wrap around days either side of their leave days.
They get no early finish or late start duties around days off or leave, in fact just the opposite!
Their rosters are published only a few days before they are due to start.
They have no formal facility to provide a ‘requested day off’ in advance of a published roster. If they need a certain day off they can sometimes, though not always, achieve it by bothering Crewing to see if they can get a duty swap with someone else, and even then only two duty swaps are allowed per active roster.
They only get paper rosters. They have no ability to see their roster or request a duty swap via the internet.
They get lots of standby and reserve duties, for which they do not get paid as might be the case in the USA.
It is probably true to say that these shortcomings are not the fault of the Rostering department, as it is likely that they are only following orders handed down to them from those higher-up the chain of command.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Sandpit
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi all. I have trawled through the trhreads and finding it hard to get a difinite on whether or not the f/o salary is adequet?? The advertised salary is for 80 hrs ish per month but believe that 600 hrs is more realsitic?? If you were to come out with a wife and 2 young kids is it really enough....after u pay pay house/cars/school top up fees/ etc etc
Any answers gratefully accepted
Any answers gratefully accepted
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: China
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With respect to earnings, most of their pilots remain a long way short of the 80 block hours per month which was suggested at both the interview and being advertised upon their recruitment web page:
Their ratio of 'Flight Duty Period' to 'Block Hours' flown is such that 80 block hours per month should considered as the absolute maximum that can be flown in a month at flydubai. Basically, by the time that you have flown 80 block hours in your month, you are nudging along just under the 100 hours in 28 days Flight Duty Period limit.
The present reality is that their pilots are barely up to 50 block hours per month.
This shortfall in block hours has had a substantially negative impact upon their pilots take home pay. Putting it into real numbers, if the status quo on block hours flown remains as is, and there is no reason to assume it will change any time soon, the shortfall in predicted annual earnings equates to approximately USD $12,250 for a Captain, and USD $8,150 for a FO.
So subtract these from the figures quoted on the flydubai website and you might be closer to the mark on the earnings that each rank is actually achieving.
For those who might not be aware of it, Flydubai now has two pay scales for flight crew and new hires will join and stay on a ‘B’ scale package.
The basic monthly ‘B’ scale salary for a flydubai FO is 17,000 Dhs and for Captain is 23,500 Dhs. [ Dhs 3.7 = USD 1 ]
Putting that in to perspective, the basic starting salary for an Etihad FO is 25,480 Dhs per month. That just happens to be the same basic salary an ‘A’ scale Captain at flydubai.
The Eithad pilot also gets a quite generous annualised salary increment, which a flydubai pilot does not.
Much as they might not like to hear it, it is highly probable that those who have joined flydubai as an ‘A’ scale FO will go on to become a Captain on the ‘B’ scale, as their promotion will present an opportunity for the management to move them on to the lower scale of T&Cs, no doubt using the standard management tactic of “well take it or leave it”?!
It could well be suggested that, in order to attract pilots, flydubai flight ops management has not been quite as honest as they should have been about projected earnings, as cited on their web site or during the interview process.
- Captain - Variable flying pay (based on working an 80-hour month) AED 12,000
- FO - Variable flying pay (based on working an 80-hour month) AED 8,000
Their ratio of 'Flight Duty Period' to 'Block Hours' flown is such that 80 block hours per month should considered as the absolute maximum that can be flown in a month at flydubai. Basically, by the time that you have flown 80 block hours in your month, you are nudging along just under the 100 hours in 28 days Flight Duty Period limit.
The present reality is that their pilots are barely up to 50 block hours per month.
This shortfall in block hours has had a substantially negative impact upon their pilots take home pay. Putting it into real numbers, if the status quo on block hours flown remains as is, and there is no reason to assume it will change any time soon, the shortfall in predicted annual earnings equates to approximately USD $12,250 for a Captain, and USD $8,150 for a FO.
So subtract these from the figures quoted on the flydubai website and you might be closer to the mark on the earnings that each rank is actually achieving.
For those who might not be aware of it, Flydubai now has two pay scales for flight crew and new hires will join and stay on a ‘B’ scale package.
The basic monthly ‘B’ scale salary for a flydubai FO is 17,000 Dhs and for Captain is 23,500 Dhs. [ Dhs 3.7 = USD 1 ]
Putting that in to perspective, the basic starting salary for an Etihad FO is 25,480 Dhs per month. That just happens to be the same basic salary an ‘A’ scale Captain at flydubai.
The Eithad pilot also gets a quite generous annualised salary increment, which a flydubai pilot does not.
Much as they might not like to hear it, it is highly probable that those who have joined flydubai as an ‘A’ scale FO will go on to become a Captain on the ‘B’ scale, as their promotion will present an opportunity for the management to move them on to the lower scale of T&Cs, no doubt using the standard management tactic of “well take it or leave it”?!
It could well be suggested that, in order to attract pilots, flydubai flight ops management has not been quite as honest as they should have been about projected earnings, as cited on their web site or during the interview process.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: China
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Amelia, to avoid any confusion I would point out that I do not work for flydubai, though I do have many friends and prior colleagues who do work there. Hence the inside info. 
I was sent one snippet which quotes their Chief Pilot saying of their February rosters "Average flight time for February is now ranging between 50- 60 hours/credit time and will continue to climb.". When saying 'flight time' I believe what he is referring to is 'block hours'.
I think you will find that many of the flydubai pilots are taking that statement with a pinch of salt. Any higher figure that you might have was probably just an aberration caused by a backlog of folk taking leave prior to the end of 2009.
The promised addition of more aircraft and more crew will probably not do much to alleviate the lack of flying, and it might well make it worse for a while. What they need are more routes and more utilisation out of the aircraft that they already have!
Fwiw, I also think you are right about the salary, or lack of it. To go an live and work in the sandpit, with all that that entails, requires a hefty reward, not a small one!
I was sent one snippet which quotes their Chief Pilot saying of their February rosters "Average flight time for February is now ranging between 50- 60 hours/credit time and will continue to climb.". When saying 'flight time' I believe what he is referring to is 'block hours'.
I think you will find that many of the flydubai pilots are taking that statement with a pinch of salt. Any higher figure that you might have was probably just an aberration caused by a backlog of folk taking leave prior to the end of 2009.
The promised addition of more aircraft and more crew will probably not do much to alleviate the lack of flying, and it might well make it worse for a while. What they need are more routes and more utilisation out of the aircraft that they already have!
Fwiw, I also think you are right about the salary, or lack of it. To go an live and work in the sandpit, with all that that entails, requires a hefty reward, not a small one!
Last edited by ex-XL; 8th Feb 2010 at 17:54. Reason: Chinese network connection screwed up
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: erf
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cost of living
Ok, so its been mentioned that the salary at FD for an F/O won't stretch that far so are guys subsidising rent costs with salary or can you find somewhere fairly descent for the said amount?
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With the decrease in the housing allowance many guys are sharing places. If you need a 3 bedroom apartment or villa for a family, then you will have to use some salary to cover it depending on where you are willing to live.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Dubai
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
typical or not?
hey FZckntkawrap - just wondering if the other pilots at flydubai are as blatant bigots as your good self? you sound like a joy to fly with...
"So to even have 15 days notice to plan something doesn't mean anything because the brown mafia will do whatever they want with your schedule, even on your 8 days off! This isn't being a whiner..."
"So to even have 15 days notice to plan something doesn't mean anything because the brown mafia will do whatever they want with your schedule, even on your 8 days off! This isn't being a whiner..."
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Dubai
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Race would have to be the issue for that statement to be considered bigoted. The issue is (some) office staff hating pilots because of our compensation, vacation, and what is considered to be an unfair distribution of the work. Guess you haven't worked out in the world too much. Everyone has a mafia: British Mafia, Australian Mafia, Brazilian Mafia, I think even the Russian's have one 
...........
...........
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: DXB
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you need a 3 bedroom apartment or villa for a family, then you will have to use some salary to cover it depending on where you are willing to live.
SFLY,
Yes, but then we are permanent residents in our home country.
We are in the UAE for as long as we are needed then we are out.
As such, we need to maintain property in our home countries AND have somewhere to live here.
That's why most employers provide housing or at least an allowance that covers decent accomodation.
Yes, but then we are permanent residents in our home country.
We are in the UAE for as long as we are needed then we are out.
As such, we need to maintain property in our home countries AND have somewhere to live here.
That's why most employers provide housing or at least an allowance that covers decent accomodation.
Last edited by Wizofoz; 10th Feb 2010 at 04:31.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dubai, UAE by way of Denver, Colorado, USA
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To address some of the issues posted:
The one thing that impresses me the most about flydubai is that the issues are known, and there are steps being taken to change them.
With regard to rosters, we have been given explanations by both the scheduler and our chief pilot that they are aware of the problems and what they are doing to correct them. We will be getting new scheduling software, new destinations, and new aircraft, all of which will correct many of the issues people on this thread are now complaining about.
Leave is currently done manually, and I received every week but one I asked for in the entire upcoming year, all 6 weeks of it. I have never been able to do that at any of my previous airlines and be awarded it! Once leave is more automated, I think there will be some more flexibility in that as well. This is just speculation on my part.
As far as housing goes, the market in Dubai is still in a downward trend. I have kids, all of which are here with me in school, and we live in a nice area. I receive 144K per year, which may be advanced to me if I choose, and my place is 160K including the appliances. It is a 4 bedroom flat on the beach with a full beach view. The housing allowance was enough to get something here in a nice two bedroom, and the guys that are getting one bedrooms are spending in the 80K range in Old Town and the Marina and banking the rest. None of my buds are sharing, but I am sure it is done to bank even more cash. You can buy in Springs, Mirdiff, JBR, the Marina, Old Town, Dubai Sports City, and Arabian Ranches, to mention a few, and live within the allowance given.
As far as fz Captains being on par with Etihad FOs, it is an apples to oranges comparison. At flydubai, our flight pay is 100 AED per hour, so it is a big chunk of our pay. If you calculate 0 as your flight pay, maybe it is the same, but that would only be accurate on leave. No one here is flying 0 hours. I would say it is between 45-65 hours. The guys in the interview are being told that, and that once we have our schedule ironed out and the aircraft we need to receive, it will be 80 hours. That is the plan.
We are taking delivery of our aircraft, and we have the new destinations on the books, so these are not pipe dreams.
This is a NEW airline, and it is amazing what they have accomplished in the short amount of time they have been around. Everyone we now hire is asked to be flexible while the operation gets on its feet. The block hours will come, the destinations will come, the rosters will come. It is not going to happen overnight, but the folks who are in charge for the most part are aware of the issues and working on them. That is much more than I can say for most of the places I have worked in the past.
This place is not perfect, and there are empires being established, just like at any workplace, not to mention airline. There is no utopian job that I am aware of, especially in this industry, but I am happy here, and I know a lot of other people who are as well. There are things that need to be fixed, things that need to come about, and I have not "drank the Kool-aid" to the point that I do not see those. As I said above though, from what I have seen, the powers that be are working on them.
One more point to make. The other nice thing here is that if you see a way to make something better, the suggestion is usually at a minimum considered. It is not a perfect culture, but that goes a long way with me.
Oh, and I DO work here. Give it 6 months and see what the rosters look like. That will address the pay and the gripes over schedules. I think they will continue to improve.
Hope that helps! I am happy to provide any information on pay, housing, education, etc. to anyone interested.
RandyBMC
The one thing that impresses me the most about flydubai is that the issues are known, and there are steps being taken to change them.
With regard to rosters, we have been given explanations by both the scheduler and our chief pilot that they are aware of the problems and what they are doing to correct them. We will be getting new scheduling software, new destinations, and new aircraft, all of which will correct many of the issues people on this thread are now complaining about.
Leave is currently done manually, and I received every week but one I asked for in the entire upcoming year, all 6 weeks of it. I have never been able to do that at any of my previous airlines and be awarded it! Once leave is more automated, I think there will be some more flexibility in that as well. This is just speculation on my part.
As far as housing goes, the market in Dubai is still in a downward trend. I have kids, all of which are here with me in school, and we live in a nice area. I receive 144K per year, which may be advanced to me if I choose, and my place is 160K including the appliances. It is a 4 bedroom flat on the beach with a full beach view. The housing allowance was enough to get something here in a nice two bedroom, and the guys that are getting one bedrooms are spending in the 80K range in Old Town and the Marina and banking the rest. None of my buds are sharing, but I am sure it is done to bank even more cash. You can buy in Springs, Mirdiff, JBR, the Marina, Old Town, Dubai Sports City, and Arabian Ranches, to mention a few, and live within the allowance given.
As far as fz Captains being on par with Etihad FOs, it is an apples to oranges comparison. At flydubai, our flight pay is 100 AED per hour, so it is a big chunk of our pay. If you calculate 0 as your flight pay, maybe it is the same, but that would only be accurate on leave. No one here is flying 0 hours. I would say it is between 45-65 hours. The guys in the interview are being told that, and that once we have our schedule ironed out and the aircraft we need to receive, it will be 80 hours. That is the plan.
We are taking delivery of our aircraft, and we have the new destinations on the books, so these are not pipe dreams.
This is a NEW airline, and it is amazing what they have accomplished in the short amount of time they have been around. Everyone we now hire is asked to be flexible while the operation gets on its feet. The block hours will come, the destinations will come, the rosters will come. It is not going to happen overnight, but the folks who are in charge for the most part are aware of the issues and working on them. That is much more than I can say for most of the places I have worked in the past.
This place is not perfect, and there are empires being established, just like at any workplace, not to mention airline. There is no utopian job that I am aware of, especially in this industry, but I am happy here, and I know a lot of other people who are as well. There are things that need to be fixed, things that need to come about, and I have not "drank the Kool-aid" to the point that I do not see those. As I said above though, from what I have seen, the powers that be are working on them.
One more point to make. The other nice thing here is that if you see a way to make something better, the suggestion is usually at a minimum considered. It is not a perfect culture, but that goes a long way with me.
Oh, and I DO work here. Give it 6 months and see what the rosters look like. That will address the pay and the gripes over schedules. I think they will continue to improve.
Hope that helps! I am happy to provide any information on pay, housing, education, etc. to anyone interested.
RandyBMC
Last edited by RandyBMC; 1st Mar 2010 at 11:08.