Pay Review EK 2008
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You are definitely not suited for a cockpit with more than yourself in it.
Enjoy the May payday everyone.
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gonoles, in the olden days, EK pilot contracts included a paragraph that stated that pilots would recieve an annual 3% rise in pay, or 'increment', for (I think) 15 years in each grade, (be it captain of FO). After 15 years, these increments would stop. (It's a sort of backhanded recognition of seniority payment.)
I understand that in current contracts, mention of the increment has disapperaed. However, with one notable exception a few years ago, the company has usually honoured the 3% increment, and continue to do so.
So, everyone (who's a pilot) got a 9% pay rise as of May and their 3% increment. If you husband is coming in as a new start, he can expect his starting pay to be 9% higher than what he was told it would be when he was interviewed.
Everyone will agree that's good news. It also an unfortunate fact that he'll/you'll need that extra 9% if you're going to live on anything more than baked beans for the first 12 months here. Prices of everything are rising at a truly alarming rate.
I understand that in current contracts, mention of the increment has disapperaed. However, with one notable exception a few years ago, the company has usually honoured the 3% increment, and continue to do so.
So, everyone (who's a pilot) got a 9% pay rise as of May and their 3% increment. If you husband is coming in as a new start, he can expect his starting pay to be 9% higher than what he was told it would be when he was interviewed.
Everyone will agree that's good news. It also an unfortunate fact that he'll/you'll need that extra 9% if you're going to live on anything more than baked beans for the first 12 months here. Prices of everything are rising at a truly alarming rate.
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The pay rise is as expected and predicted by many but not sufficient to retain many experienced pilots. Don't forget ATC got about 70%!
Given the current state of inflation it is at best 'treading water'.
The recipe to retain experienced pilots is basing out of Dubai. What a
hole
Given the current state of inflation it is at best 'treading water'.
The recipe to retain experienced pilots is basing out of Dubai. What a
hole
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The recipe to retain experienced pilots is basing out of the Sandpit
Wow boys and girls,
Have been reading the thread so far and have been saddened at the lack of self worth being portrayed.
I am more than in agreement that there should be basing outside of the Sandpit. Please sign me up for the first basing.
Unfortunately, I have been here for a few years, and do not yet see a vision of allowing pilots to be based where they want to live. (and these guy's in charge " LOVE" to have a vision)
Does any one else see this?
We can achieve this if, and only IF, we stand together, and DO NOT accept the terms as put forth by the companies who are doing the hiring.
Now back to reality.
Does anyone here see that happening?....
Anyone please............?
We are truly our own worst enemies.
I like to read these threads to find out how the rest of the industry is doing. I made my choice to come over here to the Sandpit, and will have to abide by that decision.
Like it or not, I am stuck, as the rest of you with that decision, and will deal with it as best as I can.
(Yes there are such things as Dubai days, Qatar, Abu Dhabi , Bahrain ,Jeddah, etc.) but we persevere.
I made my move from the states.
Is it the best I can hope for? Only time will tell us that one.
It is better than where I came from? ( sadly yes.)
I did not want to come 6000 miles away from home, nor did most everyone else here. I am not alone in that decision. But I deal with it.
Now, what do WE as Pilots do to make this better?
There is a vast amount of knowledgeable people here reading these forums. Why can not we actually use the knowledge here for our own benefit, instead of just capitulating to the airlines who hire us?
Is this forum a BITCH session, or can we use it to our advantage?
Can we as a group, realize that we actually have something to bring to these airlines other than being ...(.God forbid for the lack of a better phrase) drivers, and be recognized for more than just another pretty face up front?
I leave that question open.
Go ahead and call me naive if you wish, but who is going to make the first step.......?
I can almost guarantee, it is not going to be the companies we work for.
Why the HELL should they?
Now let us have a real debate.
Bring on some good ideas that we can live with, instead of just going along with the flow.
They only have the power we give them.
PITA
Have been reading the thread so far and have been saddened at the lack of self worth being portrayed.
I am more than in agreement that there should be basing outside of the Sandpit. Please sign me up for the first basing.
Unfortunately, I have been here for a few years, and do not yet see a vision of allowing pilots to be based where they want to live. (and these guy's in charge " LOVE" to have a vision)
Does any one else see this?
We can achieve this if, and only IF, we stand together, and DO NOT accept the terms as put forth by the companies who are doing the hiring.
Now back to reality.
Does anyone here see that happening?....
Anyone please............?
We are truly our own worst enemies.
I like to read these threads to find out how the rest of the industry is doing. I made my choice to come over here to the Sandpit, and will have to abide by that decision.
Like it or not, I am stuck, as the rest of you with that decision, and will deal with it as best as I can.
(Yes there are such things as Dubai days, Qatar, Abu Dhabi , Bahrain ,Jeddah, etc.) but we persevere.
I made my move from the states.
Is it the best I can hope for? Only time will tell us that one.
It is better than where I came from? ( sadly yes.)
I did not want to come 6000 miles away from home, nor did most everyone else here. I am not alone in that decision. But I deal with it.
Now, what do WE as Pilots do to make this better?
There is a vast amount of knowledgeable people here reading these forums. Why can not we actually use the knowledge here for our own benefit, instead of just capitulating to the airlines who hire us?
Is this forum a BITCH session, or can we use it to our advantage?
Can we as a group, realize that we actually have something to bring to these airlines other than being ...(.God forbid for the lack of a better phrase) drivers, and be recognized for more than just another pretty face up front?
I leave that question open.
Go ahead and call me naive if you wish, but who is going to make the first step.......?
I can almost guarantee, it is not going to be the companies we work for.
Why the HELL should they?
Now let us have a real debate.
Bring on some good ideas that we can live with, instead of just going along with the flow.
They only have the power we give them.
PITA
Last edited by PITA; 17th May 2008 at 08:16. Reason: context
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Pita
Sadly, I think you were serious with your call to the picket line. Am I worried about you? Yes.
The reality is that no one has capitulated to any airline, rather a case of legislation and the inability to form an association. Blame the government if you like, or more appropriately the individual who sought employment here without seeking the facts or chosing to ignore them. i.e. look in the mirror.
I'd rather not debate a meaningless topic on this forum, go pour yourself a LIT and chill.
Sadly, I think you were serious with your call to the picket line. Am I worried about you? Yes.
The reality is that no one has capitulated to any airline, rather a case of legislation and the inability to form an association. Blame the government if you like, or more appropriately the individual who sought employment here without seeking the facts or chosing to ignore them. i.e. look in the mirror.
I'd rather not debate a meaningless topic on this forum, go pour yourself a LIT and chill.
Last edited by atiuta; 17th May 2008 at 06:34.
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Basings, personnally dont see it happening. If it ever did you would have to be very very senior to hold it, unless you were a US DEC and a buddy of ED's/
TC did mention no basings at this time, did not say never.
EK will use BA/SIA/QF as examples of no basings. Note SIA is doing away with the basings all new contracts back in SIN.
TC did mention no basings at this time, did not say never.
EK will use BA/SIA/QF as examples of no basings. Note SIA is doing away with the basings all new contracts back in SIN.
Last edited by fatbus; 17th May 2008 at 06:20.
United does not have bases in Sydney or Glasgow.
BA does not have bases in New York or Auckland
Qantas does not have bases in LA or Warsaw....
The idea that EK should offer to base pilots "where they want to live" as some sort of magnanimous favor is ridiculous.
They will base pilots outside of Dubai when either (or both) it is the only way to attract and retain enough qualified people or it is economically prudent to do so as it cuts the costs of accommodation and provides a reserve coverage at a remote hub.
Personally I think it is inevitable that this will happen eventually. The cost of housing people in Dubai is becoming ever more difficult and expensive, the network is becoming more extensive, and I don't know of any airline that has 450 aircraft operating out of one base. I wouldn't think it would be closer than five years away, however.
Till then, the fact is we signed on with a Middle-eastern airline, so where did you expect to have to live?
BA does not have bases in New York or Auckland
Qantas does not have bases in LA or Warsaw....
The idea that EK should offer to base pilots "where they want to live" as some sort of magnanimous favor is ridiculous.
They will base pilots outside of Dubai when either (or both) it is the only way to attract and retain enough qualified people or it is economically prudent to do so as it cuts the costs of accommodation and provides a reserve coverage at a remote hub.
Personally I think it is inevitable that this will happen eventually. The cost of housing people in Dubai is becoming ever more difficult and expensive, the network is becoming more extensive, and I don't know of any airline that has 450 aircraft operating out of one base. I wouldn't think it would be closer than five years away, however.
Till then, the fact is we signed on with a Middle-eastern airline, so where did you expect to have to live?
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I will go on record stating that Basings will not happen at EK in the next 10 years.
It simply will not happen for a myriad of reasons.
And I am someone who would do back-flips on Shk Zayed Road if it ever happened. I just cannot see the positives ever coming close to the negatives (from a company POV) of such a policy. The DEMAND vs SUPPLY equation for pilots will never reach a point that it is a requirement. When it comes close, they will simply dip into the 1.5Billion USD profit and up the salary as a last resort.
Look at the difficulties of recruiting in the past 4 years and consider the company's response. They do the minimum required to keep the wheels in motion. Basings would be the maximum, so anyone thinking this will happen in the foreseeable future is..... in my opinion.... deluded.
Even the company has been consistent and clear on the point of basings. (something a little unusual for them) They have never even hinted at such things, and in fact have affectly quashed rumours at the onset.
It simply will not happen for a myriad of reasons.
And I am someone who would do back-flips on Shk Zayed Road if it ever happened. I just cannot see the positives ever coming close to the negatives (from a company POV) of such a policy. The DEMAND vs SUPPLY equation for pilots will never reach a point that it is a requirement. When it comes close, they will simply dip into the 1.5Billion USD profit and up the salary as a last resort.
Look at the difficulties of recruiting in the past 4 years and consider the company's response. They do the minimum required to keep the wheels in motion. Basings would be the maximum, so anyone thinking this will happen in the foreseeable future is..... in my opinion.... deluded.
Even the company has been consistent and clear on the point of basings. (something a little unusual for them) They have never even hinted at such things, and in fact have affectly quashed rumours at the onset.
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Rambo,
You may be happier living back in AUS but I can guarantee you wont enjoy V.............ask any ex VB driver at EK over a beer what its like to work for a V company. Then get back to me. Enjoy your paxing in economy to re-position to LAX and your meal out of a card board box. Grass is not always greener. And yes, please don't winge on DG site in 12 months. Please.
You may be happier living back in AUS but I can guarantee you wont enjoy V.............ask any ex VB driver at EK over a beer what its like to work for a V company. Then get back to me. Enjoy your paxing in economy to re-position to LAX and your meal out of a card board box. Grass is not always greener. And yes, please don't winge on DG site in 12 months. Please.
Well being with my family and watching my kids grow up in a normal environment is worth more than any crap V will throw at me. There shouldnt be any deadheading to LA as the same aircraft operates return flights.
Taxes, well good benefits flow from them. In Dubai you can pay 250 t0 300 K for a family villa if you had to pay this that would be a very big tax on your salary and what do you get , a house that would cost you about 60k to rent back home. EK is an OK job but its a big compromise if it splits your family.
Taxes, well good benefits flow from them. In Dubai you can pay 250 t0 300 K for a family villa if you had to pay this that would be a very big tax on your salary and what do you get , a house that would cost you about 60k to rent back home. EK is an OK job but its a big compromise if it splits your family.
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wizofoz
I know cx has bases in Australia, London and USA for the same reason you have mentioned. I think nothing wrong basing crews in diffrent locations when it makes economic sense, cx used to base all in HKG and spent a lot on housing. Major carries in the states have several bases.
We can not compare living condition of Australia,North America and Europe to ME.Basing outside DXB will save money for the company and many many happy crew is win win situation. Atleast one base in Europe will be big relief.
I know cx has bases in Australia, London and USA for the same reason you have mentioned. I think nothing wrong basing crews in diffrent locations when it makes economic sense, cx used to base all in HKG and spent a lot on housing. Major carries in the states have several bases.
We can not compare living condition of Australia,North America and Europe to ME.Basing outside DXB will save money for the company and many many happy crew is win win situation. Atleast one base in Europe will be big relief.
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Just remember that if you are based outside the UAE, you might have to pay tax in the country that you are based in. As far as I'm aware that is how it works in places like Cathay Cargo.
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saywhat
regarding tax, it depends on how you setup. If 180 days away from place of residence and pay goes to offshore a/c you are ok. worked fine for last 7 years for my colleagues.
regarding tax, it depends on how you setup. If 180 days away from place of residence and pay goes to offshore a/c you are ok. worked fine for last 7 years for my colleagues.
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Incorrect
at least for Canadians and I believe Kiwis as well:
If a Canadian's wife and kids move home to Canada he is liable for full Canadian tax on his entire pay package and the yield of any offshore investments, even if he never personally returns to Canada again in his life.
Canadian tax law makes the judgement that:
-everyone is resident somewhere
-the first question asked in deciding which is your personal country of residence is the location of your family.
If a Canadian's wife and kids move home to Canada he is liable for full Canadian tax on his entire pay package and the yield of any offshore investments, even if he never personally returns to Canada again in his life.
Canadian tax law makes the judgement that:
-everyone is resident somewhere
-the first question asked in deciding which is your personal country of residence is the location of your family.
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Dubai's diesel prices hit record
United Arab Emirates: Tuesday, May 20 - 2008 at 14:24
"Diesel prices in Dubai yesterday hit a record Dhs17 ($4.63) per gallon, an increase of Dhs1.20 from Dh15.80 a few days ago, reported Gulf News. The diesel price at Dubai filling stations is currently almost 100% higher than at Abu Dhabi National Oil Co (Adnoc) stations in the capital and northern emirates, where it is Dhs8.6 per gallon. "
The pay increase will be wiped out within 4 months. Just this one step on Diesel is 7.6%. There have already been other steps this year.
All this has yet to filter through into the general inflation but against all this, the salary review simply ensured cheaper pilots for the next year.
I cannot believe there are actually pilots who were happy with their increase. Questionable judgement....
United Arab Emirates: Tuesday, May 20 - 2008 at 14:24
"Diesel prices in Dubai yesterday hit a record Dhs17 ($4.63) per gallon, an increase of Dhs1.20 from Dh15.80 a few days ago, reported Gulf News. The diesel price at Dubai filling stations is currently almost 100% higher than at Abu Dhabi National Oil Co (Adnoc) stations in the capital and northern emirates, where it is Dhs8.6 per gallon. "
The pay increase will be wiped out within 4 months. Just this one step on Diesel is 7.6%. There have already been other steps this year.
All this has yet to filter through into the general inflation but against all this, the salary review simply ensured cheaper pilots for the next year.
I cannot believe there are actually pilots who were happy with their increase. Questionable judgement....
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In the last week since the payrise was announced, I have already been notified of significant increases in Levy, aircon, water, electricity, effectively almost cancelling the effect of the payrise, never mind the rest that will also follow suite.
After always having been fairly optimistic about things here I think it's over now. The greed is amazing never mind the ever worsening danger on the roads.
After always having been fairly optimistic about things here I think it's over now. The greed is amazing never mind the ever worsening danger on the roads.
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Just received an email from a friend who's moving his business, including workshop and showrooms, to far smaller quarters way further out. The landlord has upped the rent on his original place by almost 100%.
7% rent cap? Only for some...
Heard that many, including quite a few locals, have been issued with 'evacuation orders' from that part of Satwa between SZR and Wasl Al to make room for Dubai's (about to be created) 'Manhattan'.
7% rent cap? Only for some...
Heard that many, including quite a few locals, have been issued with 'evacuation orders' from that part of Satwa between SZR and Wasl Al to make room for Dubai's (about to be created) 'Manhattan'.
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Disconnected,
Hope you don't own a diesel in DXB... (I don't know anyone driving a diesel).
6.6 for Special last time I topped. Keeps the smile on my face
Let's see when the government reviews the price on gas. Might be a major shocker for all SUV fans when they do it.
Hope you don't own a diesel in DXB... (I don't know anyone driving a diesel).
6.6 for Special last time I topped. Keeps the smile on my face
Let's see when the government reviews the price on gas. Might be a major shocker for all SUV fans when they do it.
