Emirates DEC
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DECs
Whilst I understand the frustration and ill feeling from current EK FOs waiting there turn for Command and seeing DECs filling the posts dont forget__________
When you eventually leave EK as an experienced Captain (most eventually do) will you be applying and accepting a FOs position with a new company?.
As unfortunate as it is it is called market forces and no one can blame DECs apllying.
Im with your thinking but but think ahead!!
Ps I have not applied to EK
When you eventually leave EK as an experienced Captain (most eventually do) will you be applying and accepting a FOs position with a new company?.
As unfortunate as it is it is called market forces and no one can blame DECs apllying.
Im with your thinking but but think ahead!!
Ps I have not applied to EK
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dubai
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Too bitter and twisted to think ahead!
I am sure all those FO'S whinging about DEC's would not market themselves as Captains in the future if/when they decide to leave EK...that would be blatant hypocrisy wouldn't it!!!
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dubai
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On My upgrade there were only 2 guys out of 16 with less than 10,000 hours. One was a cadet. All but 4 had had a command before.
Most DEC programs are at airlines with low hours F/O's and there is a need for some perceived experience.
This is not the case at emirates where you need 4000 hrs total including 2000 jet to join as an F/o.
Now most guys with that sort of experience are commanders (LCC) or senior F/o's at their current airline.
The DEC policy is wrong. It's a cost saving exercise. When you join as a DEC you will experience Emirates cost neutral style and then bitch about it.
If you are out of work then I see why you would come but we have guys that have retired from BA on a fat pension just to make it tax free, including management.
Most F/o's don't hold anything against the DEC's, except when they are incompetent and or arrogant, which unfortunately they often are (Both)
Several Dec's have downgraded to F/o whilst none or nearly none of the upgraded F/o's have.
Anybody fancy taking-off over Max takeoff Weight deliberately today?
One of MANY examples I’ve seen on ULR trips.
Billy
Most DEC programs are at airlines with low hours F/O's and there is a need for some perceived experience.
This is not the case at emirates where you need 4000 hrs total including 2000 jet to join as an F/o.
Now most guys with that sort of experience are commanders (LCC) or senior F/o's at their current airline.
The DEC policy is wrong. It's a cost saving exercise. When you join as a DEC you will experience Emirates cost neutral style and then bitch about it.
If you are out of work then I see why you would come but we have guys that have retired from BA on a fat pension just to make it tax free, including management.
Most F/o's don't hold anything against the DEC's, except when they are incompetent and or arrogant, which unfortunately they often are (Both)
Several Dec's have downgraded to F/o whilst none or nearly none of the upgraded F/o's have.
Anybody fancy taking-off over Max takeoff Weight deliberately today?
One of MANY examples I’ve seen on ULR trips.
Billy
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dubai
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One more thing
The reason we need DEC's now is because of the DEC policy.
Goma as you say why would anybody join as a F/o if you know that you will jumped by the DEC's.
Why not stay where you are, get the hours and then if you still want to come, come as a DEC. So not many F/o's are joining and our current f/o's can't be upgraded because there is nobody to replace them. We need Captains.... answer get more DEC's. It will only get worse.
Emirates don't see this. They should make a statement that there will be No more DEC's and then maybe the guys will come as f/o's and people can be upgraded.Will they no. Why
It's a reactive airline not a proactive airline when it comes to staff.
Billy
Goma as you say why would anybody join as a F/o if you know that you will jumped by the DEC's.
Why not stay where you are, get the hours and then if you still want to come, come as a DEC. So not many F/o's are joining and our current f/o's can't be upgraded because there is nobody to replace them. We need Captains.... answer get more DEC's. It will only get worse.
Emirates don't see this. They should make a statement that there will be No more DEC's and then maybe the guys will come as f/o's and people can be upgraded.Will they no. Why
It's a reactive airline not a proactive airline when it comes to staff.
Billy
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 563
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As was said above, Emirates does not need DEC's, there are enough capable FO's who can upgrade.
The only reason these W**kers do it is because in the SHORT term it saves money.... actually no it doesn't save money in the short term because most of the DEC's require additional training.
But hey, why care about company morale, who gives a s*it about that
The only reason these W**kers do it is because in the SHORT term it saves money.... actually no it doesn't save money in the short term because most of the DEC's require additional training.
But hey, why care about company morale, who gives a s*it about that
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
Posts: 2,777
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EK need piloits, thats it. If they cant get enough F/O's then DEC's. Right now the few extra Capt's on the bus come from within, upgrades pushed back because everyone telling their mates DONT come. The result is a larger number of F/O's reguire more training due to there back ground. The other issue is a hugh increase in extra taining / failures on the 777 upgrade, quick fix delay the 777 upgrade and back fill with DEC's, company could care less about your upgarde compared to getting airplane's in the air ( read record profits)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For the record, any FO posting here and complaining about DEC's knew full well what the policy was when they joined.
They will also, no doubt, be the first in the line should a better DEC opportunity present itself. Perhaps they will decline opportunities where they deem the advertising airline has "no need for perceived experience".
I'm not a proponent of the DEC policy either, but I do find it rather droll to hear the same old drivel about those nasty DEC's when the plantiff was fully aware of the incumbent policy.
One for the DEC's, could we cut the complaints about the rostering. Catching the long snake to the bottom of the rung was also a known quantity. Fortunately you have a rotating bid system.
They will also, no doubt, be the first in the line should a better DEC opportunity present itself. Perhaps they will decline opportunities where they deem the advertising airline has "no need for perceived experience".
I'm not a proponent of the DEC policy either, but I do find it rather droll to hear the same old drivel about those nasty DEC's when the plantiff was fully aware of the incumbent policy.
One for the DEC's, could we cut the complaints about the rostering. Catching the long snake to the bottom of the rung was also a known quantity. Fortunately you have a rotating bid system.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dubai
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
swish266
Good job EK Bus Driver,
I guess there are not too much Eastern European DEC with EK. But there will soon be one more. So U can print all my stuff and carry it in your flight bag. Sooner rather than latter we will get to read it together on these longeeesh sleepless nights, Mate!
I guess there are not too much Eastern European DEC with EK. But there will soon be one more. So U can print all my stuff and carry it in your flight bag. Sooner rather than latter we will get to read it together on these longeeesh sleepless nights, Mate!
Mr Swish,
My Dear Chap, you underestimate me!
The only way we will be flying together will be on a Line Check or SIM evaluation MATE! I'm sure the Flight Training Scheduler will also be able to roster you with a
F--ker from Oz
) .
And it will be real fun, fun, fun !!
overexperienced
You see my Eastern Friend, it is not just F/O's that are unhappy with the whole DEC philosophy and it's associated Policies (and PROBLEMS).
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 327
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wee one,
Yep mate. There are guys around with this experience level. Just not enough command time +55T and there you go...
Some guys are pretty desperate to come here. But at least they join the cue at the end.
I heard that after the numerous downgrades of DECs they decided to throw the DEC thing overboard...
Seems to me that the problem is some individuals from a country with +1B population in near Asia cooking these brilliant plannings for our fleets. Nobody second guesses them and they got it wrong AGAIN..... Sorry for the ones being shafted....
oooh I love these Dilbert cartoons.....
Yep mate. There are guys around with this experience level. Just not enough command time +55T and there you go...
Some guys are pretty desperate to come here. But at least they join the cue at the end.
I heard that after the numerous downgrades of DECs they decided to throw the DEC thing overboard...
Seems to me that the problem is some individuals from a country with +1B population in near Asia cooking these brilliant plannings for our fleets. Nobody second guesses them and they got it wrong AGAIN..... Sorry for the ones being shafted....
oooh I love these Dilbert cartoons.....
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There would be no need to come to Dubai as a DEC if the sheckels were better. Truth is the F/O new joiner money + 9% isnt up to what most guys with 8000 hrs 3000 cmd are leaving behind.
So why come at all? Very good question. Actually an agonisingly good one. The LCC / short haul envirnoment isn't one you can survive indefinately. Its one big gamble, but count me in anyway.
The DEC route is the only option where the money at day 1 is ok. The F/O route is the more practical and may I suggest moral.....I'm coming as a F/O, and sorry to repeat myself again but the money isn't wonderful. From what I can see Emirates does not need DEC's, but they are handy and cheap and quick. Accountants like handy, cheap and quick. One other thing I think most have missed here, as far as I know the UAE and Dubai are not democracies, niether is Emirates Airlines. So if you take the gamble, like me you gotta be prepared to loose.
I havent joined yet and I know lots of guys with lots of command time to add to their new wide bodied time. This should equal wide body capt.
So why come at all? Very good question. Actually an agonisingly good one. The LCC / short haul envirnoment isn't one you can survive indefinately. Its one big gamble, but count me in anyway.
The DEC route is the only option where the money at day 1 is ok. The F/O route is the more practical and may I suggest moral.....I'm coming as a F/O, and sorry to repeat myself again but the money isn't wonderful. From what I can see Emirates does not need DEC's, but they are handy and cheap and quick. Accountants like handy, cheap and quick. One other thing I think most have missed here, as far as I know the UAE and Dubai are not democracies, niether is Emirates Airlines. So if you take the gamble, like me you gotta be prepared to loose.
I havent joined yet and I know lots of guys with lots of command time to add to their new wide bodied time. This should equal wide body capt.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UAE
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For fellas who threaten DECs with their threats of EK trainers having long memories, well what goes around comes around. There are DECs who will become TREs/TRIs and they too can extract their pounds of flesh. Sheesh, the cheek of some..........
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Stratosphere
Posts: 226
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DEC's recruitment is here to stay - the quote attributed to TCAS was that he'd rather have a DEC who'd flown nothing bigger and newer than a DC9 than upgrade an existing F/O, coz it's cheaper.
Never mind the quality, feel the width...
Never mind the quality, feel the width...
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dubai
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Geragau. The post was directed at Swish only and not all DEC’s. He was out of order and it was not a threat just a little bit of education.
Mr Staynes is correct with perspective on SOME not all Dec’s.
The policy is wrong and we blame the company.
You wouldn’t be too happy if Emirates now decided that they can’t get enough DEC’s so they start all the new DEC’s on higher pay and put them at the top of the seniority list. It could happen and I would like to read your posts then, so don’t have a go at us for being upset.
Not only F/o’s are upset by the Dec thing.
If you are DEC and have come with an attitude then we blame you. If you are normal and professional most guys won’t have a problem with you. Still doesn’t make it right.
Billy
Mr Staynes is correct with perspective on SOME not all Dec’s.
The policy is wrong and we blame the company.
You wouldn’t be too happy if Emirates now decided that they can’t get enough DEC’s so they start all the new DEC’s on higher pay and put them at the top of the seniority list. It could happen and I would like to read your posts then, so don’t have a go at us for being upset.
Not only F/o’s are upset by the Dec thing.
If you are DEC and have come with an attitude then we blame you. If you are normal and professional most guys won’t have a problem with you. Still doesn’t make it right.
Billy
Last edited by Billy Madrid; 18th May 2008 at 12:55.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dubai
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DEC's
The post was directed at Swish only and not all DEC’s.
He was out of order and it was not a threat just a little bit of education
He was out of order and it was not a threat just a little bit of education
If you are normal and professional most guys won’t have a problem with you
If you are DEC and have come with an attitude then we blame you
Billy you are SPOT ON
I couldn't agree more.Well said!
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Airplane
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do you guys think anyone cares if you "blame" them. Give me a break.
If I were to leave EK for a job somewhere else as a DEC, the last thing on my mind would be if a f/o would accept me. It would be more of a question if I accept them.
I know, I know, someone is going to say CRM. Go ahead, who cares.
7
If I were to leave EK for a job somewhere else as a DEC, the last thing on my mind would be if a f/o would accept me. It would be more of a question if I accept them.
I know, I know, someone is going to say CRM. Go ahead, who cares.
7
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dubai
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
757 No unfortunately I don’t think they do care. (The ones with the bad attitude) My opinion and that is all I can give, is that they should care.
My point to the DEC’s is, think about it.
Is it really that long since you were an F/o?
How would you feel if you were an F/o that has been delayed by you?
Would you like to fly with Mr Swish? Even if he only means half of what says. (Fun, Fun ,Fun!!)
Then with ULR flights you might well get that pleasure.
Respect people and they will respect you.
I think you answered your own question about CRM!!!!!
My point to the DEC’s is, think about it.
Is it really that long since you were an F/o?
How would you feel if you were an F/o that has been delayed by you?
Would you like to fly with Mr Swish? Even if he only means half of what says. (Fun, Fun ,Fun!!)
Then with ULR flights you might well get that pleasure.
Respect people and they will respect you.
I think you answered your own question about CRM!!!!!
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Airplane
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I knew it. Wasn't long before someone implied that my CRM was not up to snuff. Any time someone has an opinion, another someone brings up that old CRM trump card. 
I got news for ya, the captain always has the ace.
7
I got news for ya, the captain always has the ace. 7