Emirates DEC
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Tent in the Desert
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All Upgrade courses have been cancelled for the summer according to a reliable source at Mission Control. Too many Captains apparently, not enough trainers and the ever increasing requirement to train US RJ FO's.
The best that we can probably manage this year is to recruit 400 pilots based on present recruitment rates. Even then we are stretched.
Good news is, courses have been scheduled for after the summer.
The best that we can probably manage this year is to recruit 400 pilots based on present recruitment rates. Even then we are stretched.
Good news is, courses have been scheduled for after the summer.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,451
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Soon , very soon, Ek will have more US pilots than any other group. It will be very interesting to see how things change within the whole company. All we can get now are RJ pilots. If we are lucky 372 guys
Most EK drivers here will be too young to remember I.K., probably the most "stellar" of the stars of the first lot of DECs EK employed from the land of Mom an' Apple Pie. He too, eventually received the (apparently coveted) DCM (=don't come Monday) award from EK, but as far as the hapless FOs who had to fly with him and hold his hand, about three years after he should have.
Others will remember the other American DEC who changed villas so many times, the company put a stop to it, forbidding everyone from doing what, until that one individual screwed it for everybody, had been a particularly popular perk of the job - the ability to do a villa swap or move by mutual consent.
That same individual took it upon himself to rip up the astro turf his neighbour had laid on the roof of his garage a day or two after the neighbour moved out, leaving the place in a terrible mess - and the fellow who moved out responsible for the repair as far as the Housing Dept was concerned. The result? Housing Department now insist a villa or apartment must be left in EXACTLY the state it was in when you moved in. All improvements MUST be removed - with no exceptions. All thanks to that one individual.
767jock, (BTW, that's a very gender-confused 'handle'), I think you should "come on down" to EK. With the attitude you've displayed on this thread so far, you'll fit very snugly into the mould some of your countrymen have made for themselves here.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: here and there
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe there will be a "US Navy Veteran" Basecap for everyone instead of a payrise 
Do be honest I am a bit surprised about the obviously high failure rate of DECs!
Thought training at NW/DL is of the same standard like at LH/BA/AF!
"Leaving level 11 thousand for level 25"O" or confirming a takeoff clearance just by saying "roger" is kind of unprofessional but, I thought the safty culture and the level of training is very similar!
Are EK expectations so much higher than with EU or US majors?
What is the "normal" background of an EK DEC?
Is there in explanation for the failure rate of DECs?
Do be honest I am a bit surprised about the obviously high failure rate of DECs!
Thought training at NW/DL is of the same standard like at LH/BA/AF!
"Leaving level 11 thousand for level 25"O" or confirming a takeoff clearance just by saying "roger" is kind of unprofessional but, I thought the safty culture and the level of training is very similar!
Are EK expectations so much higher than with EU or US majors?
What is the "normal" background of an EK DEC?
Is there in explanation for the failure rate of DECs?
Last edited by Cityliner; 14th May 2008 at 08:48. Reason: Lack of knowledge from the english language
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: i don't know
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is there in explanation for the failure rate of DECs?
I know these jockeys don't like to hear this, but it sure makes a difference how many tons you haul, for how far and into what environement.
There lies the biggest obstacle to overcome and the main criticism from FOs about working with such DECs.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
Age: 55
Posts: 2,831
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well GMDS, I always figured that if you fly the MCP/FCU with the A/P, or manually with the stick, the rest of the aeroplane FOLLOWS - be it 370 tonnes , 180 tonnes or 45 tonnes - or even a Navajo!!!!!!
Get over your weight problem. Flying is not rocket science - just that a fair few at EK make it out to be.... "Ok, Dubai - cat A airfield, terrain to the south (this on a gin clear day?), etc etc etc"
I will agree that environment makes a difference.
Get over your weight problem. Flying is not rocket science - just that a fair few at EK make it out to be.... "Ok, Dubai - cat A airfield, terrain to the south (this on a gin clear day?), etc etc etc"
I will agree that environment makes a difference.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: i don't know
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the rest of the aeroplane FOLLOWS - be it 370 tonnes , 180 tonnes or 45 tonnes - or even a Navajo!!!!!!
Just read the weekly incident reports and count the number of unstabilised approaches. "Short radar vectors" - my a$$ - sounds like a ME blaming game where the author is in it for nothing.
Again, I am not tarnishing anyone, everybody will eventually end up a good pilot. All it takes is adequate training and experience, and that is blatantly missing. Without, they are simply not yet up to the task. Those who ridicule this, for whatever reason, might just qualify.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
Age: 55
Posts: 2,831
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A license to drive an HGV - 40 tonne truck - is VERY different from your average 'corolla' license. I know that from experience with big 18 wheelers... Besides, the new rigs being 'drive by wire' - yep, I'll bet my gran could drive one..
Flying very well, very averagely or very poorly largely boils down to ABILITY - although good training and experience can mitigate this to an extent... You can go through the EK 'rocket science by oz-mates' training school and still only be a fairly average aviator (whatever your background) - I've flown with some guys recently who make you sit up just that little straighter if you know what I mean
Flying very well, very averagely or very poorly largely boils down to ABILITY - although good training and experience can mitigate this to an extent... You can go through the EK 'rocket science by oz-mates' training school and still only be a fairly average aviator (whatever your background) - I've flown with some guys recently who make you sit up just that little straighter if you know what I mean
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: left and low
Age: 54
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do have to say in defense of the RJ guys. Anyone who slags them off should try what they were doing, be it in europe or north america. Someone was peeing their pants about an autoland in Perth below limitsor some bull****?....Why dont you try hand flying a Cat 3A off a HUD in a 20 kt crosswind. No autothrottle, manual go around in an aircraft that wants to dive when you apply GA thrust (different thrust couple from the biggies chaps). Yes you do get Cat 3 wx with that kind of wind in some places in the world maties. 5 legs a day, blah blah blah.
Why not show a bit of respect? Some didnt learn to fly in a jumbo.
Why not show a bit of respect? Some didnt learn to fly in a jumbo.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Over the hill and far away
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow...although I have no interest flying in the Middle East, but come on guys, airplane's an airplane. It has engine(s) and wings. It's not that difficult to learn how to fly one - be it a little RJ or a jumbo jet. Actually, I felt the 777 and 744 were easier to fly than a turboprop...
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: i don't know
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok Peter.
I always said, i do not belittle anyone. The RJ guys have done their part, agreed. We've all heard the tales about LCY and what it took to fly it.
Now just how would these RJ jockeys react, if i'd pretend that because i am a heavy jockey, i'd be able to switch seats and fly such approaches like a dream in a RJ80??? .... They always say "...nahhhh, it really takes some training, adaption and experience to be able to wrestle these birds down into the city ......." -- Aha! --
Every operation is different. That's my point: A RJ, even a 73 or 320 skipper is not just born to take a -500 or -300ER seat due to his ability.
IMHO it is bad practice to take DECs who have not flown similar equippment or in similar environement. It is per definition NOT Direct entry.
I always said, i do not belittle anyone. The RJ guys have done their part, agreed. We've all heard the tales about LCY and what it took to fly it.
Now just how would these RJ jockeys react, if i'd pretend that because i am a heavy jockey, i'd be able to switch seats and fly such approaches like a dream in a RJ80??? .... They always say "...nahhhh, it really takes some training, adaption and experience to be able to wrestle these birds down into the city ......." -- Aha! --
Every operation is different. That's my point: A RJ, even a 73 or 320 skipper is not just born to take a -500 or -300ER seat due to his ability.
IMHO it is bad practice to take DECs who have not flown similar equippment or in similar environement. It is per definition NOT Direct entry.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GMDS / White Night
"Every operation is different. IMHO it is bad practice to take DECs who have not flown similar equippment or in similar environement. It is per definition NOT Direct entry."
Well said! Absolutely right.
It goes to say "Good practice to take DECs who HAVE flown similar equipment or in similar environement" It is then a defination FOR DIRECT entry CMD...right!!
Any problem there dear AVIATORS ????
Happy and safe flying.!!
"Every operation is different. IMHO it is bad practice to take DECs who have not flown similar equippment or in similar environement. It is per definition NOT Direct entry."
Well said! Absolutely right.
It goes to say "Good practice to take DECs who HAVE flown similar equipment or in similar environement" It is then a defination FOR DIRECT entry CMD...right!!
Any problem there dear AVIATORS ????
Happy and safe flying.!!
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
Age: 55
Posts: 2,831
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Except for the F/O's who are waiting for their courses MR VERTIGO.....
Get a grip man
Edited to add: Experience on type and routes doesn't always count, when you've not got the ability. I did have a couple of fun trips with a couple of the first DEC's back in '04. All that 330/340 time they had - they may as well of been flying kites
Oh yeah, they had that magic 10000 hrs that aar so covets
Get a grip man
Edited to add: Experience on type and routes doesn't always count, when you've not got the ability. I did have a couple of fun trips with a couple of the first DEC's back in '04. All that 330/340 time they had - they may as well of been flying kites
Oh yeah, they had that magic 10000 hrs that aar so covets
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dubai
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Two points.
1. Dear Capt Doe.
I tend to agree with the " An airplane is an airplane" So could you explain why all the US majors pay a 777 diver a lot more than the regional’s pay an E145 driver for as you guys say in the states “I have no clue!”
2. Also whilst agreed the East coast in the winter can be a challenge it is also fair to say you have numerous options (airfields) if diversion is required.
It's not really the same flying over K2 and having an engine failure and then trying to explain to the DEC where the engine out drift down options are located in the manuals that some (Due arrogance) have neglected to read.
As I have said before, not all are bad but the ones that come here with attitude are dangerous. Even more so because they don’t even know they are dangerous.
Now EK is to blame for the ridiculous policy but the DEC’s are also responsible for their attitude. Gents try treading lightly and acting professionally(Some not All). Again the ones that should take this advise are the ones that will ignore it
Billy
I tend to agree with the " An airplane is an airplane" So could you explain why all the US majors pay a 777 diver a lot more than the regional’s pay an E145 driver for as you guys say in the states “I have no clue!”
2. Also whilst agreed the East coast in the winter can be a challenge it is also fair to say you have numerous options (airfields) if diversion is required.
It's not really the same flying over K2 and having an engine failure and then trying to explain to the DEC where the engine out drift down options are located in the manuals that some (Due arrogance) have neglected to read.
As I have said before, not all are bad but the ones that come here with attitude are dangerous. Even more so because they don’t even know they are dangerous.
Now EK is to blame for the ridiculous policy but the DEC’s are also responsible for their attitude. Gents try treading lightly and acting professionally(Some not All). Again the ones that should take this advise are the ones that will ignore it
Billy
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dubai
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Emirates DEC
Dear Mr Swish,
In view of some of your previous posts;
In view of these wonderful and highly informative and I must say intelligently constructed Posts. We can all probably assume that you are a 44 year old Eastern European (previously rejected by E.K.). A highly experienced expatriat B767 Pilot with more than 6,ooo hours 
who hates everything to do with India (and F/O's 
). And above all - with one HUGE CHIP on your shoulder.
I am sure our undeserving and highly under experienced F/O's will really enjoy a shafting from the likes of you BUDDY.
Enjoy the "Fun Fun Fun" in the 3rd World mate, coz with your attitude that's exactly where you will probably still be in 7 years!
I doubt very much that you can even spell C.R.M. 
In view of some of your previous posts;
"I come from Eastern Europe
I will never forget the F--ker from Oz, who on purpouse looked at my first log-book, upside down (it is in Cyrilic) just to make a point...
That was at an Emirates interview in Sept '97. He was a senior instructor on the 310...
I hate my job now, because in my dozen years of expat flying I had to prove I was at least 3 times better than everybody else on the short list, just coz I speak English with East European accent...
But beware "good guys" - we will pull the carpet from under yr feet soon, coz we r good n cheap
Basil, U know wah to do wit dat long finger of yrs, dat U wave at us, EE pilots...
Last edited by swish266 : 17th July 2006 at 21:15. "
AND
Quote: "Re: Latest EK selection news To d guys like LHR-R:
8000+ B767, 4000+ PIC B767, 5 continents - Do I qualify, Mate?
To the others:
Would U guys mind telling me how many of the following the average B777 captain's roster has each month:
1. B-to-B subcontinent (Pak, Ind, Bang) flts?
2. Long haul E-W of more than 9 hours?
3. Days away fro DXB?
4. Days in DXB incl stbys?
5. Flt duty hours?
This **** bout factoring of FDH for inflt rest, is it on?
I need to make a fast decision should I join yr happy/unhappy crowd.
Spare me d details bout accom n rest. I know DXB very well!
Tnx a lot whoever contributes a sensible input!
P.S.: I would appr if s/one sends me a sample B777 captain's roster. "
AND
QUOTE: " I feel exactly this way.
15 yrs of expat jobs killed my love for flying! I did not choose to leave my homeland - my a/l went under.
I am 43 but I am ready to go tomorrow. Still need to fly for another 7 though, so I can sail round the world like Immelmann wants.
My Dad's buddies all died within 2-3 years of 60. The lack of stress just killed them.
People say best 10 years of your career are 50-60. I would say the money we save between 50-60 pays for surviving untill 70.
Is this what I want? "
AND
QUOTE: " 'Nam & India I worked for HVN in the late '90ies, for 3.5 yrs. After I left, I used to say - "Will go back there only on a B52 with nukes".
Actually after spending 57 days on layovers in India in 2005 and doing 17 trips by June 2006 my choice is Vietnam.
Sorry guys.
I am scared to fly into India. Looking at the TCAS is one thing but listening on the radio is... mind-bogging! I've placed a 100USD bet that there will be a major accident in the next 6 months.
I started my expat flying in 1995. I can tell U - nobody will dish out d big bucks for a good look and a decent accent. They throw the big bucks at U because the job is crap - its risky.
On my last 3-day layover I had an open wound on my ankle (a rope burn) that was nicely healing. Guess what - it got infected in Bombay!!!
In a piss-pit like India and Vietnam an expat must consider above and before all the health issues... Because, "no honey, no money"...
A fellow pilot was diagnosed with viral meningitis in Saigon way back in '97. The air ambulance arrived within 2h from SIN - it took 8h to do his paperwork at customs&immi - they almost lost him.
Imagine U are driven to a flight in one of the shiny new Atoses or Indicas and U get smashed by a truck?! No medevac for U - you will bleed to death before any help gets to you through the traffic caused by the rubberneckers. And if at all U get to the hospital on time... Not worth going on...
I am just in the right mood to enlighten you guys, that think that can make a nice buck while on furlough...
On an expat job you are treated like an attachment to the a/c. Not a fragile human being, be it India, Vietnam, China or any other 3rd world place...
God Bless the uninformed!
Amen
Last edited by swish266 : 6th July 2007 at 11:26. "
AND QUOTE: "A few Golden Rules "
A Captain should:
"
That was at an Emirates interview in Sept '97. He was a senior instructor on the 310...
I hate my job now, because in my dozen years of expat flying I had to prove I was at least 3 times better than everybody else on the short list, just coz I speak English with East European accent...
But beware "good guys" - we will pull the carpet from under yr feet soon, coz we r good n cheap
Basil, U know wah to do wit dat long finger of yrs, dat U wave at us, EE pilots...
Last edited by swish266 : 17th July 2006 at 21:15. "
AND
Quote: "Re: Latest EK selection news To d guys like LHR-R:
8000+ B767, 4000+ PIC B767, 5 continents - Do I qualify, Mate?
To the others:
Would U guys mind telling me how many of the following the average B777 captain's roster has each month:
1. B-to-B subcontinent (Pak, Ind, Bang) flts?
2. Long haul E-W of more than 9 hours?
3. Days away fro DXB?
4. Days in DXB incl stbys?
5. Flt duty hours?
This **** bout factoring of FDH for inflt rest, is it on?
I need to make a fast decision should I join yr happy/unhappy crowd.
Spare me d details bout accom n rest. I know DXB very well!
Tnx a lot whoever contributes a sensible input!
P.S.: I would appr if s/one sends me a sample B777 captain's roster. "
AND
QUOTE: " I feel exactly this way.
15 yrs of expat jobs killed my love for flying! I did not choose to leave my homeland - my a/l went under.
I am 43 but I am ready to go tomorrow. Still need to fly for another 7 though, so I can sail round the world like Immelmann wants.
My Dad's buddies all died within 2-3 years of 60. The lack of stress just killed them.
People say best 10 years of your career are 50-60. I would say the money we save between 50-60 pays for surviving untill 70.
Is this what I want? "
AND
QUOTE: " 'Nam & India I worked for HVN in the late '90ies, for 3.5 yrs. After I left, I used to say - "Will go back there only on a B52 with nukes".
Actually after spending 57 days on layovers in India in 2005 and doing 17 trips by June 2006 my choice is Vietnam.
Sorry guys.
I am scared to fly into India. Looking at the TCAS is one thing but listening on the radio is... mind-bogging! I've placed a 100USD bet that there will be a major accident in the next 6 months.
I started my expat flying in 1995. I can tell U - nobody will dish out d big bucks for a good look and a decent accent. They throw the big bucks at U because the job is crap - its risky.
On my last 3-day layover I had an open wound on my ankle (a rope burn) that was nicely healing. Guess what - it got infected in Bombay!!!
In a piss-pit like India and Vietnam an expat must consider above and before all the health issues... Because, "no honey, no money"...
A fellow pilot was diagnosed with viral meningitis in Saigon way back in '97. The air ambulance arrived within 2h from SIN - it took 8h to do his paperwork at customs&immi - they almost lost him.
Imagine U are driven to a flight in one of the shiny new Atoses or Indicas and U get smashed by a truck?! No medevac for U - you will bleed to death before any help gets to you through the traffic caused by the rubberneckers. And if at all U get to the hospital on time... Not worth going on...
I am just in the right mood to enlighten you guys, that think that can make a nice buck while on furlough...
On an expat job you are treated like an attachment to the a/c. Not a fragile human being, be it India, Vietnam, China or any other 3rd world place...
God Bless the uninformed!
Amen
Last edited by swish266 : 6th July 2007 at 11:26. "
AND QUOTE: "A few Golden Rules "
A Captain should:
- Lead by example.
- Not expect his crew to do something he doesn't like or can't do.
- Never forget he started from the right and a PPL.
- Offer comments only if the F/O has indicated they are welcome. Unless of course it's training.
- Be humble enough to analyse his own mistakes for the benefit of the crew.
- Adapt to his F/O's level of performance rather than expect vice-versa.
- Be a Diplomat rather than a Dictator.
- Involve/consult his crew about a decision, even if it is obvious his/her experience has led him/her to the right one.
- Always be prepared to leave his mindset, even God made a few mistakes.
"In view of these wonderful and highly informative and I must say intelligently constructed Posts.
We can all probably assume that you are a 44 year old Eastern European (previously rejected by E.K.). A highly experienced expatriat B767 Pilot with more than 6,ooo hours who hates everything to do with India (and F/O's ). And above all - with one HUGE CHIP on your shoulder.I am sure our undeserving and highly under experienced F/O's will really enjoy a shafting from the likes of you BUDDY.
Enjoy the "Fun Fun Fun" in the 3rd World mate, coz with your attitude that's exactly where you will probably still be in 7 years!
I doubt very much that you can even spell C.R.M.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IMHO it is bad practice to take DECs who have not flown similar equippment or in similar environement. It is per definition NOT Direct entry.
SV, as one example, years ago required from DEC applicants minimum 3000 hours command in 4-engine heavy jets, prior to being selected...and no, any military flying didn't count.
Putting small airplane drivers into quite large airplanes can be done, but the training costs can go waaay over budget....and usually do.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dubai
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mr Swish
You really are not the sharpest tool in the box are you. Most people would have stopped digging but not you.
So now we know who you are, I suggest that some of those disadvantaged F/o's on the bus are now trainers on the Bus and quite capable of reading PPRUNE. Even more will become trainers and most will have very long memory's.
I hope you enjoy your Sim check rides with these guys, I'm sure it'll be real FUN showing them how much your 767 time counts for nothing on an EK BUS.
Tread carefully or expect to be back flying 767's on 6 month temporary contracts out of china, sooner than you expected!
Billy
So now we know who you are, I suggest that some of those disadvantaged F/o's on the bus are now trainers on the Bus and quite capable of reading PPRUNE. Even more will become trainers and most will have very long memory's.
I hope you enjoy your Sim check rides with these guys, I'm sure it'll be real FUN showing them how much your 767 time counts for nothing on an EK BUS.
Tread carefully or expect to be back flying 767's on 6 month temporary contracts out of china, sooner than you expected!
Billy
