The Etihad Package...
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: europe
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I never applied, never would , hence I never failed an interview with any Gulf carrier. I think I made it quite clear why I never bothered. I find it very interesting that I did not hear ANY valid argument so far for choosing to work and live there... I think that is an answer as well!
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somehwere on the planet
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Sisyphos
Ok i'll bite on this....
First if you have never lived here you are speaking from stuff you have heard, not experienced.
climate : terrible most of the year
I love the weather here. It is sunny 95% of the time and for all but 3 months the weather is really nice. Yes it gets silly hot for 3 months when humidity comes up but the rest of the time it's great. I scuba dive year round here and i haven't once had to come home from a pairing, scrape the ice off my car in a parking lot, drive myself home and shovel my driveway. Call me crazy but i prefer the weather here anyday. You get used to the heat as well and airconditioning is a wonderful thing
traffic : grueling, life threatening simply
Yes traffic can suck somedays at certain times and all of the time in certain areas. however traffic also sucks in alot of major cities all over the world. You see some interesting driving decisions here but it is hardly the apocalypse everyone makes it out to be. With some thought you can avoid alot of the traffic issues. It isn't ideal but it certainly wouldn't figure into a decision on taking a job here or not.
labor union : none
True. Unions can be two edged swords however. Generally pilots are treated fairly well, at least at EK. yes every once and awhile they come up with annoying new policies, but i doubt that a union would change much of that. Overall union protection seems unecessary here. And i am speaking from a position of a former union leader and negotiator so i've seen both sides.
culture : big malls and even bigger cars. great.
Pretty shallow point of view and inflamatory. If you chose to stay on the commercial sideof things then yup you can have a big car and see the fancy malls. Lots more to it than that and some interesting stuff do see in Dubai. The museum is actually quite good, and a short drive across the border to smaller villages in Oman will put you back in time for a great history lesson. There is alot more to the region than shopping malls if you go looking for it and are interested.
inflation : double digits
Yup a big issue. EK gave a 13% raise this year partly because of it. I doubt that covered the whole inflation thing, but at least it helped. in their defense i didn't have too many of my friends at western airlines getting at 13% raise this year despite being subject to huge raises in gas and food prices. Inflation will continue to be a problem here in future years and is something that should be considered.
management : unreliable, no job protection laws whatsoever
Speaking from an EK pilots position. Management is generally quite good at this airline despite some annoying littel decrees from time to tiime. They have kept this airline profitable through some of the worst times in aviation history and continued phenomenal growth while doing it. The airline is generally very well managed. There are job protection laws here, though not on the same level as a european carrier. First we are contract pilots here on a contract and are subject to all that that entails. However as far as i''m aware there haven't been many guys laid off here, and anyone who've i spoken too who has been sick for any length of time has been very well taken care of by EK.
seniority list : worthless, since most won't stay anyway the whole career
Plenty of pilots stay here for a career. The seniority list is not as binding as it would be in a legacy carrier for two reasons. One they employ DEC as necessary. Two they use a rotating bid group system of bidding that allows everyone a decent roster on 3/5 months or more. I personally like it better than a strict seniority system. Be aware of it before applying. The DEC issue can be problematic though the numbers aren't huge.
housing : erratic, no guarantees regarding where you end up. are you guys really willed to gamble on the place your families has to live thereafter??
Housing is a problem at the moment. it takes EK several months to get people into a decent place. However housing is fully paid for, with no expenses. Once you do get permanent accomodation it is of a very good standard. it is an issue that they know about and are working on. If you chose to come be aware the first 6 months or so may see you in temporary accomodation. After that the accomodation is free and nice.
flight time limitations, overtime etc : as they please, general hours above average
FTL are much better here than north america. I flew 350 hours last year, hardly a taxing schedule with 42 days of leave. it's mostly a long haul fleet with few sectors. The night trips suck but its part of the job. I''m harldy overworked.
currency: US$. well...
Yup the exchange rates suck at the moment. i do get a bit of extra currency from the company to make up for some of that, but i sure would like to see a strong US dollar again. if you are sending lots of money home then its something to consider. if you keep it here for more favourable exchange rates then you may fare better later on if the US dollar comes back. Overall here your expenses are very low with housing, portion of your school fees etc being covered for you. I generally have much much more disposable income here for investing/playing that i would working for a western carrier.
It's not a perfect job, but that one dosen't exist. Overall i am quite happy here and the question i ask is why would i want to go back home and work? Yes i miss friends/famly left back home, but i actually get to see them more often with the amount of leave/time off i get. An expat job isn't for everyone but it sure works for others. You should really have tried it before preaching to the internet on how bad it is and why would anyone even think of going there.
First if you have never lived here you are speaking from stuff you have heard, not experienced.
climate : terrible most of the year
I love the weather here. It is sunny 95% of the time and for all but 3 months the weather is really nice. Yes it gets silly hot for 3 months when humidity comes up but the rest of the time it's great. I scuba dive year round here and i haven't once had to come home from a pairing, scrape the ice off my car in a parking lot, drive myself home and shovel my driveway. Call me crazy but i prefer the weather here anyday. You get used to the heat as well and airconditioning is a wonderful thing
traffic : grueling, life threatening simply
Yes traffic can suck somedays at certain times and all of the time in certain areas. however traffic also sucks in alot of major cities all over the world. You see some interesting driving decisions here but it is hardly the apocalypse everyone makes it out to be. With some thought you can avoid alot of the traffic issues. It isn't ideal but it certainly wouldn't figure into a decision on taking a job here or not.
labor union : none
True. Unions can be two edged swords however. Generally pilots are treated fairly well, at least at EK. yes every once and awhile they come up with annoying new policies, but i doubt that a union would change much of that. Overall union protection seems unecessary here. And i am speaking from a position of a former union leader and negotiator so i've seen both sides.
culture : big malls and even bigger cars. great.
Pretty shallow point of view and inflamatory. If you chose to stay on the commercial sideof things then yup you can have a big car and see the fancy malls. Lots more to it than that and some interesting stuff do see in Dubai. The museum is actually quite good, and a short drive across the border to smaller villages in Oman will put you back in time for a great history lesson. There is alot more to the region than shopping malls if you go looking for it and are interested.
inflation : double digits
Yup a big issue. EK gave a 13% raise this year partly because of it. I doubt that covered the whole inflation thing, but at least it helped. in their defense i didn't have too many of my friends at western airlines getting at 13% raise this year despite being subject to huge raises in gas and food prices. Inflation will continue to be a problem here in future years and is something that should be considered.
management : unreliable, no job protection laws whatsoever
Speaking from an EK pilots position. Management is generally quite good at this airline despite some annoying littel decrees from time to tiime. They have kept this airline profitable through some of the worst times in aviation history and continued phenomenal growth while doing it. The airline is generally very well managed. There are job protection laws here, though not on the same level as a european carrier. First we are contract pilots here on a contract and are subject to all that that entails. However as far as i''m aware there haven't been many guys laid off here, and anyone who've i spoken too who has been sick for any length of time has been very well taken care of by EK.
seniority list : worthless, since most won't stay anyway the whole career
Plenty of pilots stay here for a career. The seniority list is not as binding as it would be in a legacy carrier for two reasons. One they employ DEC as necessary. Two they use a rotating bid group system of bidding that allows everyone a decent roster on 3/5 months or more. I personally like it better than a strict seniority system. Be aware of it before applying. The DEC issue can be problematic though the numbers aren't huge.
housing : erratic, no guarantees regarding where you end up. are you guys really willed to gamble on the place your families has to live thereafter??
Housing is a problem at the moment. it takes EK several months to get people into a decent place. However housing is fully paid for, with no expenses. Once you do get permanent accomodation it is of a very good standard. it is an issue that they know about and are working on. If you chose to come be aware the first 6 months or so may see you in temporary accomodation. After that the accomodation is free and nice.
flight time limitations, overtime etc : as they please, general hours above average
FTL are much better here than north america. I flew 350 hours last year, hardly a taxing schedule with 42 days of leave. it's mostly a long haul fleet with few sectors. The night trips suck but its part of the job. I''m harldy overworked.
currency: US$. well...
Yup the exchange rates suck at the moment. i do get a bit of extra currency from the company to make up for some of that, but i sure would like to see a strong US dollar again. if you are sending lots of money home then its something to consider. if you keep it here for more favourable exchange rates then you may fare better later on if the US dollar comes back. Overall here your expenses are very low with housing, portion of your school fees etc being covered for you. I generally have much much more disposable income here for investing/playing that i would working for a western carrier.
It's not a perfect job, but that one dosen't exist. Overall i am quite happy here and the question i ask is why would i want to go back home and work? Yes i miss friends/famly left back home, but i actually get to see them more often with the amount of leave/time off i get. An expat job isn't for everyone but it sure works for others. You should really have tried it before preaching to the internet on how bad it is and why would anyone even think of going there.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sun
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Sisyphos, your description is perfectly applicable to EY . tbaylx is also correct BUT hi is with EK. And his correct in the Climate comments too. The reactions to your comments makes sense to me. Don't expect these big boys to admit that joining EY was a mistake. Many times I have noticed that the happy ones are those who were unemployed or were doing ****i contracts those who couldn't make it with EK and a few who were shown the door by previous employers. Sadly these guys are the most welcome by EY.
