Etihad upgrades are on A320
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Relief
I think you need a hug mate
from what I know all DEC on the A320 so far have more AIRBUS hours than the 5500 mentioned, I came across 4 of them who are current on A320 & A330 from GF as they were CCQ'd (both seats as well). The B777 will be recruiting F/O’s then move them to airbus as they approach command easily me hope 
The money issue is the big one and we will all have a round at captain’s arm on May 13th.
I think you need a hug mate
from what I know all DEC on the A320 so far have more AIRBUS hours than the 5500 mentioned, I came across 4 of them who are current on A320 & A330 from GF as they were CCQ'd (both seats as well). The B777 will be recruiting F/O’s then move them to airbus as they approach command easily me hope The money issue is the big one and we will all have a round at captain’s arm on May 13th.
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Airpilot_A3xx
Listen mate. You are the living example of what is happening to Etihad.
You came from Gulf Air as a DEC and within a few months you are trying to sc
everyone. No wonder why you are so happy with the new policy. What really upset me is the way you are using Pprune. At your GF times some were using Pprune to balance the negative comments and to cover up what management was doing. That’s why everyone knows who you are. How else would you get promoted if management didn’t knew who you are and what you post? How else would you come here? Well guess what mate? This is not GF and certainly Abu Dhabi is not Bahrain. Coming here just to s your colleagues is a no no. Your friends might be living soon and then you will be left alone you know. The short history of EY has shown many times that what goes around comes around.
The question about the B777 was who is going to fly the B777 from the LEFT seat whenever there are vacancies from resignations, retirements, additional aircrafts etc. And since you are ex GF then tell us what the GulfAir upgrade requirements for the A320 are. Why EY requirements have to be so high compare with Gulf Air and other Airlines.
Enjoy captain’s arm on May 13th.
BCF Brief
The number comes from the latest Paris Air show order. I don’t have access to the delivery schedule as we are not kept in the loop. What I know is from what was sent to us which is a copy of what was sent to the newspapers at that time. As you said deliveries will start later this year and I presume that deliveries will continue next year maybe also the year after and so on. The first A319 has arrived with a second one following very soon. There are rumors that we are getting 2 more A320 but then again who know.
Listen mate. You are the living example of what is happening to Etihad.
You came from Gulf Air as a DEC and within a few months you are trying to sc
everyone. No wonder why you are so happy with the new policy. What really upset me is the way you are using Pprune. At your GF times some were using Pprune to balance the negative comments and to cover up what management was doing. That’s why everyone knows who you are. How else would you get promoted if management didn’t knew who you are and what you post? How else would you come here? Well guess what mate? This is not GF and certainly Abu Dhabi is not Bahrain. Coming here just to s your colleagues is a no no. Your friends might be living soon and then you will be left alone you know. The short history of EY has shown many times that what goes around comes around. The question about the B777 was who is going to fly the B777 from the LEFT seat whenever there are vacancies from resignations, retirements, additional aircrafts etc. And since you are ex GF then tell us what the GulfAir upgrade requirements for the A320 are. Why EY requirements have to be so high compare with Gulf Air and other Airlines.
Enjoy captain’s arm on May 13th.
BCF Brief
The number comes from the latest Paris Air show order. I don’t have access to the delivery schedule as we are not kept in the loop. What I know is from what was sent to us which is a copy of what was sent to the newspapers at that time. As you said deliveries will start later this year and I presume that deliveries will continue next year maybe also the year after and so on. The first A319 has arrived with a second one following very soon. There are rumors that we are getting 2 more A320 but then again who know.
you hurt my feelings Relief... keep it on the green dude Join Date: May 2006
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Aggree !!!!
The only comment I could make on this, is that the ball is already in our management's hands, and long time ago.
Nothing should change for better, it never did.
Expect worse and you won't be disappointed.
Chinese airlines added 1 more month salary yearly.... slowly coming up.....
The only comment I could make on this, is that the ball is already in our management's hands, and long time ago.
Nothing should change for better, it never did.
Expect worse and you won't be disappointed.
Chinese airlines added 1 more month salary yearly.... slowly coming up.....
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A346Driver
You wrote:
“Forgive me but I fail to see the argument behind command directly on a widebody when the airline now has a narrow body fleet. The natural course of progression is F/O widebody, Command narrow body then promotion to Command widebody. Its how its been done for years all over the world and for a good reason.”
You fail to see because you don’t want to see or you haven’t got the ability to see. Airlines who operate only wide bodies like Emirates, Singapore, Cathay, Virgin Atlantic etc give wide body Command as a natural progress. Others do it more or less as per the natural course of progression that you descript but this is not what we do. What we do is that we upgrade our FOs on the A320 and at same time we are getting more DECs on the wide bodies. What we do we get direct FOs on the wide bodies while our A320 FOs are waiting for the promised MFF to happen. What we did last summer is that we stopped upgrading because we were to busy training non type rated DECs and DE FOs on wide bodies.
“I know of no DEC's (including myself) who came to EY with the minimum hour requirements. The minimums are there to satisfy insurance requirements but that certainly does not mean that EY employ DEC's with those minimums. My total time is over 15,000 with more than 6000 PIC on A340 and no DEC on my course was below 10,000.”
You must be happy that your hours got you a DEC position with EY. However this is not how it works with Airlines that claim to use Best Practices. By what you say we should get Pilots with thousands of hours to replace all of us. Then we would find one with 15500 hours to replace you and then you can go and jump on top of BA seniority and fly the A380 from the left seat.
“Gentlemen Command is Command, be it on A320, A330 or B777. To be able to get an upgrade withing 3 years is a marvel and something you should not frown upon (and yes I do understand that most F/O's came with heaps of experience to EY, I just dont understand why you dont extend the same courtesy to the guy on your left) . I've been flying 23 years and saw my first jet command 13 years ago. Please do the math.”
Big empty words. Most of EY FOs have been waiting as much as you did. Some they have been FOs for as much as your entire career. Some of them came here because they were promised an early wide body command. These FOs did not start their flying career 3 years ago.
“My intetion is not to show any disrespect to any of my peers but I certainly expect the same treatment. To generalize and say that DEC's have no standards and come from low costs is simply utter rubish. If this is the case I suggest you report each and every case to the safety department. You have valid salary arguments with the airline but knocking your colleagues is not really going to get you anywhere.”
I don’t know to whom you are referring to but if you think that loco airlines like Easyjet, Jetblue and Southwest have no standards then you know nothing about aviation. Easyjet standards in particular are second to no one. I don’t know anyone who left those loco airlines to join EY and I don’t see why they should. Do you?
You wrote:
“Forgive me but I fail to see the argument behind command directly on a widebody when the airline now has a narrow body fleet. The natural course of progression is F/O widebody, Command narrow body then promotion to Command widebody. Its how its been done for years all over the world and for a good reason.”
You fail to see because you don’t want to see or you haven’t got the ability to see. Airlines who operate only wide bodies like Emirates, Singapore, Cathay, Virgin Atlantic etc give wide body Command as a natural progress. Others do it more or less as per the natural course of progression that you descript but this is not what we do. What we do is that we upgrade our FOs on the A320 and at same time we are getting more DECs on the wide bodies. What we do we get direct FOs on the wide bodies while our A320 FOs are waiting for the promised MFF to happen. What we did last summer is that we stopped upgrading because we were to busy training non type rated DECs and DE FOs on wide bodies.
“I know of no DEC's (including myself) who came to EY with the minimum hour requirements. The minimums are there to satisfy insurance requirements but that certainly does not mean that EY employ DEC's with those minimums. My total time is over 15,000 with more than 6000 PIC on A340 and no DEC on my course was below 10,000.”
You must be happy that your hours got you a DEC position with EY. However this is not how it works with Airlines that claim to use Best Practices. By what you say we should get Pilots with thousands of hours to replace all of us. Then we would find one with 15500 hours to replace you and then you can go and jump on top of BA seniority and fly the A380 from the left seat.
“Gentlemen Command is Command, be it on A320, A330 or B777. To be able to get an upgrade withing 3 years is a marvel and something you should not frown upon (and yes I do understand that most F/O's came with heaps of experience to EY, I just dont understand why you dont extend the same courtesy to the guy on your left) . I've been flying 23 years and saw my first jet command 13 years ago. Please do the math.”
Big empty words. Most of EY FOs have been waiting as much as you did. Some they have been FOs for as much as your entire career. Some of them came here because they were promised an early wide body command. These FOs did not start their flying career 3 years ago.
“My intetion is not to show any disrespect to any of my peers but I certainly expect the same treatment. To generalize and say that DEC's have no standards and come from low costs is simply utter rubish. If this is the case I suggest you report each and every case to the safety department. You have valid salary arguments with the airline but knocking your colleagues is not really going to get you anywhere.”
I don’t know to whom you are referring to but if you think that loco airlines like Easyjet, Jetblue and Southwest have no standards then you know nothing about aviation. Easyjet standards in particular are second to no one. I don’t know anyone who left those loco airlines to join EY and I don’t see why they should. Do you?
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Relief, thanks for the detailed reply. You are right that airlines like Singapore, Virgin Atlantic and Cathay upgrade on wide body aircraft, but that is because they do not have anything else. We now do and what are we supposed to do with the A320? The natural progression is now for EY to upgrade on the A320 then as you guys gain time in the left seat promote you to the bigger aircraft.
I think I mentioned that already when I clearly acknowledged that most guys have heaps of experience. Still in aviation sadly it's pot luck, if you're in the right place at the right time you get lucky, others wait for ever. But that doesnt mean that a Command on an A320 is any less than a Command on an A330 mate.
In closing I would really like to wish you and all the other guys all the best. I have no gripe with you, I'm just trying to say that there is nothing wrong with a Command on the A320. Look forward to it, it's a new rating and frankly a very popular one that can nowadays land you any job you like.
Cheers
Big empty words. Most of EY FOs have been waiting as much as you did. Some they have been FOs for as much as your entire career. Some of them came here because they were promised an early wide body command. These FOs did not start their flying career 3 years ago
In closing I would really like to wish you and all the other guys all the best. I have no gripe with you, I'm just trying to say that there is nothing wrong with a Command on the A320. Look forward to it, it's a new rating and frankly a very popular one that can nowadays land you any job you like.
Cheers
I agree too, 346Driver.
Sadly here there is a blurred line between salary and allowances. A320 drivers may well not earn the allowances, but then dont thave the down route expenses either! The allowances are only supposed to be reimbursements for expenses, therefore not so applicable in 'take home' salary comparisons...?
Please dont shoot me down, I am just trying to apply some logic. Or am I barking?
Sadly here there is a blurred line between salary and allowances. A320 drivers may well not earn the allowances, but then dont thave the down route expenses either! The allowances are only supposed to be reimbursements for expenses, therefore not so applicable in 'take home' salary comparisons...?
Please dont shoot me down, I am just trying to apply some logic. Or am I barking?
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Don't get me wrong, to me it's just a matter of what has been promised in the interview process.
People have chosen to leave a decent job, for most of them, with command propsectives and REAL seniority lists and rules, to come in EY to get a widebody command within 2 to 3 years, AS IT WAS PROMISED IN THE INTERVIEWS .
Now, you tell them you will get command on an A320,on which they could have had command in their previous airline,and most probably earlier and in better conditions........... What do you expect ??????
For the guys who are joining now, or think about joining,that's the best lesson ever : That can happen again and for worse, so :
GO EK !!!!! and get 14 weeks basic salary bonus !!!!!
People have chosen to leave a decent job, for most of them, with command propsectives and REAL seniority lists and rules, to come in EY to get a widebody command within 2 to 3 years, AS IT WAS PROMISED IN THE INTERVIEWS .
Now, you tell them you will get command on an A320,on which they could have had command in their previous airline,and most probably earlier and in better conditions........... What do you expect ??????
For the guys who are joining now, or think about joining,that's the best lesson ever : That can happen again and for worse, so :
GO EK !!!!! and get 14 weeks basic salary bonus !!!!!
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Sorry buddy , but logic does not really apply here.
its a personal choice and even if you do have expenses ,tell me, do you really spend it all .
So what is left you take home . This Makes a great difference on a yearly basis.
Command is Comand that is correct but most of us traded 1 year wait at home for 2 year to upgrade on W/B.
Nobody has been able to say why the 777 guys get to CCQ to 330 for their command and not the 320.
Do they all have previous bus experience .
Can you trade a bus F/O with over 5 years exp.( for command on 330 with a 777 F/O with 6 months RH seat .
Where does LOGIC APPLY ?
Its true you have to be at the right place at the right time .
I believe we all were a matter of years ago and believed what we were told and took the decision to come . .
Has GCAA approved the Mixed Fleet 320/330 .
These are issues that may calm the waters and create some expectations towards a better career option .
Safe flying
its a personal choice and even if you do have expenses ,tell me, do you really spend it all .
So what is left you take home . This Makes a great difference on a yearly basis.
Command is Comand that is correct but most of us traded 1 year wait at home for 2 year to upgrade on W/B.
Nobody has been able to say why the 777 guys get to CCQ to 330 for their command and not the 320.
Do they all have previous bus experience .
Can you trade a bus F/O with over 5 years exp.( for command on 330 with a 777 F/O with 6 months RH seat .
Where does LOGIC APPLY ?
Its true you have to be at the right place at the right time .
I believe we all were a matter of years ago and believed what we were told and took the decision to come . .
Has GCAA approved the Mixed Fleet 320/330 .
These are issues that may calm the waters and create some expectations towards a better career option .
Safe flying
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YES ALGHAZAL ,
I have to agree with you .
Guys its a better option to look else where ,not only for your career but your lifestyle .
HOUSING not enough and not what you expect .
UPGRADES , not on what was offered W/B .
SALARY , not enough Cost of living rising.
I have to agree with you .
Guys its a better option to look else where ,not only for your career but your lifestyle .
HOUSING not enough and not what you expect .
UPGRADES , not on what was offered W/B .
SALARY , not enough Cost of living rising.
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Well said jet-lag I agree with you. Pay certainly has to be addressed as our do our T&C.
Pay increments to meet inflation
Housing
Schooling
Real Firm leave tickets
Pension Plan
Alghazal you do have a point about promises made at the interview but still I feel the upgrade schedule is more important than the actual fleet of upgrade. In other words they should not compromise the rate of upgrades with DEC's. DEC's like myself should only cover excess command requirements that command upgrades cannot cover.
I just hope that our management does not make empty promises about the MFF 320/330 because that will have a very negative effect.
Pay increments to meet inflation
Housing
Schooling
Real Firm leave tickets
Pension Plan
Alghazal you do have a point about promises made at the interview but still I feel the upgrade schedule is more important than the actual fleet of upgrade. In other words they should not compromise the rate of upgrades with DEC's. DEC's like myself should only cover excess command requirements that command upgrades cannot cover.
I just hope that our management does not make empty promises about the MFF 320/330 because that will have a very negative effect.
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I'm sure other professions like doctors ans lawyers have forums like this to cry and wine all day long..........pilots really are pathethic.......stop embarrassing me.......but then wadefac 
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EY346Driver
“In closing I would really like to wish you and all the other guys all the best. I have no gripe with you, I'm just trying to say that there is nothing wrong with a Command on the A320. Look forward to it, it's a new rating and frankly a very popular one that can nowadays land you any job you like.”
I wish I could accept your wishes but then again…
…What if I already have the rating? What if I was already a Captain on the A320 or any other narrow body jet before I joint EY. What if I have chosen EY based on what was promised and on what was on offer at that time. Maybe I did not join as a Captain simply because I did not met the requirements for a wide body DEC at that time. You see is not that simple.
“DEC's like myself should only cover excess command requirements that command upgrades cannot cover.”
For once we both agree on something. Unfortunately once again there are ZERO (0) upgrades for May while DECs are still arriving in big numbers. Our training department is very busy clearing DECs instead of upgrading FOs. Mind you this is applicable to all fleets including the 320.
“In closing I would really like to wish you and all the other guys all the best. I have no gripe with you, I'm just trying to say that there is nothing wrong with a Command on the A320. Look forward to it, it's a new rating and frankly a very popular one that can nowadays land you any job you like.”
I wish I could accept your wishes but then again…
…What if I already have the rating? What if I was already a Captain on the A320 or any other narrow body jet before I joint EY. What if I have chosen EY based on what was promised and on what was on offer at that time. Maybe I did not join as a Captain simply because I did not met the requirements for a wide body DEC at that time. You see is not that simple.
“DEC's like myself should only cover excess command requirements that command upgrades cannot cover.”
For once we both agree on something. Unfortunately once again there are ZERO (0) upgrades for May while DECs are still arriving in big numbers. Our training department is very busy clearing DECs instead of upgrading FOs. Mind you this is applicable to all fleets including the 320.
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Relief do you get any "relief" taking out your frustration on me? I sure hope so mate.
Let me understand your logic here. You dont like DEC's, fine, you have every right to, but that really means that when you get your upgrade in EY you will stay till retirement. Because according to your beliefs you must not go elsewhere as a DEC and take (according to you) someones upgrade.
If you left an A320 command for an A330 f/o position then you need to take a close look at your thought process (to put it very lightly)
Grow up mate, stop your bitching and whinning and get on with it.
Let me understand your logic here. You dont like DEC's, fine, you have every right to, but that really means that when you get your upgrade in EY you will stay till retirement. Because according to your beliefs you must not go elsewhere as a DEC and take (according to you) someones upgrade.
What if I already have the rating? What if I was already a Captain on the A320 or any other narrow body jet before I joint EY.
Grow up mate, stop your bitching and whinning and get on with it.
Last edited by EY346Driver; 4th May 2008 at 10:59.