EK - Bonus is reduced this year!
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EK - Bonus is reduced this year!
Next month will be bonus talk as the end of the financial year approches. But before we start guessing just remember...
As quoted from an other thread:
The bonus and the 25% of the surplus rule has been changed last year. Since the bonus now applies only to your basic salary. If you fly 75 hours a month average you should be very very close to your 900 hours and maybe more if you count the hours factored.
Depending of your position as Captain or F/O you will have % reduction of your bonus this year. If we get 4.5 weeks like last year. Take your basic + your flight pay salary for the year divided by 52 weeks X 4.5 and this should be the bonus for your work for the year as per last year's rule. Now the new formula goes like this: Basic X 12 divided by 52 X 4.5. So depending on how much you've worked dictates your bonus. If you've worked a lot you get a smaller bonus then if you've worked less and have been unproductive. Why? Because you don't get the bonus applied to your flight hours. What a funny way to reward your employees for their work... probably a manager idea. Work less get more. Work more get less. Can you be more
then that? Greed greed greed... One more and important thing. The bonus should apply to the relative financial year. That means 2007-2008. Don't forget to do your productivity calculation for your financial year. Then you will realize that last year's pay increase was far from the number they told you it was. It's so going south year after year!
So what's in store for this year pay review? Keep Discovering
As quoted from an other thread:
if the company makes $1 Billion then we get two weeks. If the profit is greater, then 25% of the surplus.
Depending of your position as Captain or F/O you will have % reduction of your bonus this year. If we get 4.5 weeks like last year. Take your basic + your flight pay salary for the year divided by 52 weeks X 4.5 and this should be the bonus for your work for the year as per last year's rule. Now the new formula goes like this: Basic X 12 divided by 52 X 4.5. So depending on how much you've worked dictates your bonus. If you've worked a lot you get a smaller bonus then if you've worked less and have been unproductive. Why? Because you don't get the bonus applied to your flight hours. What a funny way to reward your employees for their work... probably a manager idea. Work less get more. Work more get less. Can you be more
then that? Greed greed greed... One more and important thing. The bonus should apply to the relative financial year. That means 2007-2008. Don't forget to do your productivity calculation for your financial year. Then you will realize that last year's pay increase was far from the number they told you it was. It's so going south year after year! So what's in store for this year pay review? Keep Discovering
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Sorry Guys but I'm going against the flow here 
The Pocket Oxford dictionary:
Bonus - Something extra, esp. dividend to shareholders, gratuity added to normal pay
Just say thank you and walk away. If you need the money that badly, keep on walking out the door.
BTW, you appear to contradict yourself. The Bonus is based on basic pay and then you talk about adding flying duty pay
And yes, you're completely correct - we should get more.
BUT, it's a Bonus
The Pocket Oxford dictionary:
Bonus - Something extra, esp. dividend to shareholders, gratuity added to normal pay
Just say thank you and walk away. If you need the money that badly, keep on walking out the door.
BTW, you appear to contradict yourself. The Bonus is based on basic pay and then you talk about adding flying duty pay
And yes, you're completely correct - we should get more.
BUT, it's a Bonus
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Bonus my a**e. You know damn well HD that the way it goes here is that is a necessary addition to compensate for inflation, exchange rates and the general crap you get working for these idiots...
They should be thanking us with this 'bonus' not the other way, it's not charity we've EARNED IT every low value Dirham of it.
While the dictionary is out look up 'cynical' & 'manipulation' of rules and regulations, 'greed' and 'abuse' of power.
They should be thanking us with this 'bonus' not the other way, it's not charity we've EARNED IT every low value Dirham of it.
While the dictionary is out look up 'cynical' & 'manipulation' of rules and regulations, 'greed' and 'abuse' of power.
Last edited by Marooned; 16th Feb 2008 at 12:16.
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Profit sharing is a benefit, It's part of my contract. It's not some kind of generous gift. It's exactly like my annual leave ticket, I take it because it's mine, period.
I am happy to get it, like anybody else, however, I feel it's fiddled with. It seems that regardless how much we beat expectations, the profit share is always a "don't give too much" figure.
A bonus is (like HD rightly defined) some extra money, not contractual. And that.....we will never get......
I am happy to get it, like anybody else, however, I feel it's fiddled with. It seems that regardless how much we beat expectations, the profit share is always a "don't give too much" figure.
A bonus is (like HD rightly defined) some extra money, not contractual. And that.....we will never get......
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Getting the bonus, no matter how big or small is great. The issue I have with it all is that every year we are having to deliver 30% more profit to the group. Every year this gets tougher but is still delivered. All we get at the end of it is 2 weeks. Over the last 5 years EK's profitability has gone through the roof yet nothing is reinvested into the staff who actually generated that profit.
Another major reduction in Terms and Conditions to be introduced shortly does not affect flight deck crew but general management in EK. Anyone moving up from a Grade 9 to a Grade 10 will no longer be entitled to firm Business upgrade First tickets. This is applicable for both personal and duty travel. The one major benefit of the promotion has now been taken away.
Another major reduction in Terms and Conditions to be introduced shortly does not affect flight deck crew but general management in EK. Anyone moving up from a Grade 9 to a Grade 10 will no longer be entitled to firm Business upgrade First tickets. This is applicable for both personal and duty travel. The one major benefit of the promotion has now been taken away.
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Ok Mutley, Let me rephrase it so don't loose your marbles.
Profit sharing is a benefit, It's part of "the terms and conditions of your employment with the Company set in this letter, in the Employment Regulation Manual, etc etc". It's not some kind of generous gift. It's exactly like my annual leave ticket, I take it because it's mine, period.
I am happy to get it, like anybody else, however, I feel it's fiddled with. It seems that regardless how much we beat expectations, the profit share is always a "don't give too much" figure.
A bonus is (like HD rightly defined) some extra money, not contractual. And that.....we will never get.....
That detail of the way, I hope you get the essence of my post now....Thanks.
Profit sharing is a benefit, It's part of "the terms and conditions of your employment with the Company set in this letter, in the Employment Regulation Manual, etc etc". It's not some kind of generous gift. It's exactly like my annual leave ticket, I take it because it's mine, period.
I am happy to get it, like anybody else, however, I feel it's fiddled with. It seems that regardless how much we beat expectations, the profit share is always a "don't give too much" figure.
A bonus is (like HD rightly defined) some extra money, not contractual. And that.....we will never get.....
That detail of the way, I hope you get the essence of my post now....Thanks.
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I'll be very pleased to receive anything over and above my normal pay that my employer decides to give me - (that's if my employer decides to give anything extra to me).
However, judging by the last few years' profit share, which did not reflect a percentage of the profit the company actually made in the previous year to each employee (as Singapore Airlines does), I think the misnamed EK 'profit share' might be more accurately named a '13th month' pay.
... and I'll be very glad ot get it.
I just think they could save themselves a lot of binding in the marsh by some employees if they called it what it is rather than try to 'spin' it to staff as something it obviously is not - a profit share.
However, judging by the last few years' profit share, which did not reflect a percentage of the profit the company actually made in the previous year to each employee (as Singapore Airlines does), I think the misnamed EK 'profit share' might be more accurately named a '13th month' pay.
... and I'll be very glad ot get it.
I just think they could save themselves a lot of binding in the marsh by some employees if they called it what it is rather than try to 'spin' it to staff as something it obviously is not - a profit share.
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Well dear "Desert Nomad" - as you've stated correctly:
"All we get at the end of it is 2 weeks. Over the last 5 years EK's profitability has gone through the roof yet nothing is reinvested into the staff who actually generated that profit"
That's exactly why i personally know already now more than 14 colleagues who will be leaving EK after their last payment of this years crappy profit-share;
people are increasibly votin' with their feet now, as better jobs are alround - especiall for Co-pilots, who earn some maegre 3900 Euros by know for flying around the clock - therefore more will be leaving soon - you bet!
"All we get at the end of it is 2 weeks. Over the last 5 years EK's profitability has gone through the roof yet nothing is reinvested into the staff who actually generated that profit"
That's exactly why i personally know already now more than 14 colleagues who will be leaving EK after their last payment of this years crappy profit-share;
people are increasibly votin' with their feet now, as better jobs are alround - especiall for Co-pilots, who earn some maegre 3900 Euros by know for flying around the clock - therefore more will be leaving soon - you bet!
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Being grateful and 'pleased to received' is a begging bowl approach to what we have worked our collective butts off earning.
I need it and I've earned it. I shouldn't need it if the wages had kept up anywhere near inflation or been as 'competitive' as they would have us believe. Every year it is a slap in the face and an insult in the way they manipulate the figures to reduce the amount 'given' rounded down to the nearest week.
It is the one occasion where they can actually make a statement of appreciation instead of a begrudging pittance wrapped up in the management spin of 'tough times ahead' etc etc, after which they announce another multi-million sponsorship deal or massive new order of the biggest whatever they can get...
EK is not a cooperative, they make that perfectly clear with every rule they change, break or abuse. If they treat me like mercenary then I'll act like one and want what I am due and it's not 4 bl**dy weeks.
I need it and I've earned it. I shouldn't need it if the wages had kept up anywhere near inflation or been as 'competitive' as they would have us believe. Every year it is a slap in the face and an insult in the way they manipulate the figures to reduce the amount 'given' rounded down to the nearest week.
It is the one occasion where they can actually make a statement of appreciation instead of a begrudging pittance wrapped up in the management spin of 'tough times ahead' etc etc, after which they announce another multi-million sponsorship deal or massive new order of the biggest whatever they can get...
EK is not a cooperative, they make that perfectly clear with every rule they change, break or abuse. If they treat me like mercenary then I'll act like one and want what I am due and it's not 4 bl**dy weeks.
Last edited by Marooned; 18th Feb 2008 at 08:23.
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Trend...
Morooned I agree and that's what I mean.
After all it's about business, and money. That's why i came here. The thing is the downward trend in T&C. A beggar would be happy with any bonus or profit share. We are being paid for a certain job. We have a contract. The formula was clearly laid out and it has changed... PERIOD. Just like that. It's not about being grateful or "happy". It's about respecting a contract. Especially about PROFITS. They're should be no problem of respecting an agreement when it comes to profit. I can understand that during hard times you can reduce T&C for the benefit of everyone. But EK has never made more profits than the last couple of years. So the bonus this year will be reduced. The 2006-2007 bonus/profit share was 4.5 weeks = a certain amount of money based on how much you have earned for that financial year. This year will be less money based on what you have earned. Why do you think they've introduced the flight pay? Because they want to give you less money for the work you do. That's productivity... Nobody was complaining about the basic salary being our only revenue. If at least the flight pay would be the actual flight time we do... no, no schedule flight time. Think productivity always.
What is in store for this year? Watch and see. They did not do that CRS changed for safety only...
They will come up with some way of you thinking you had an increase of income. But actually you will have to work 20% more to get 15% more money at the end of the financial year 2008-2009. That's what they have been doing to us on all aspect of our contract. They are in a position to do it. Now if they keep doing this again and again, only beggars will be left around here. All others who can will go to places where they respect the contract they agreed on.
Keep discovering
After all it's about business, and money. That's why i came here. The thing is the downward trend in T&C. A beggar would be happy with any bonus or profit share. We are being paid for a certain job. We have a contract. The formula was clearly laid out and it has changed... PERIOD. Just like that. It's not about being grateful or "happy". It's about respecting a contract. Especially about PROFITS. They're should be no problem of respecting an agreement when it comes to profit. I can understand that during hard times you can reduce T&C for the benefit of everyone. But EK has never made more profits than the last couple of years. So the bonus this year will be reduced. The 2006-2007 bonus/profit share was 4.5 weeks = a certain amount of money based on how much you have earned for that financial year. This year will be less money based on what you have earned. Why do you think they've introduced the flight pay? Because they want to give you less money for the work you do. That's productivity... Nobody was complaining about the basic salary being our only revenue. If at least the flight pay would be the actual flight time we do... no, no schedule flight time. Think productivity always.
What is in store for this year? Watch and see. They did not do that CRS changed for safety only...
They will come up with some way of you thinking you had an increase of income. But actually you will have to work 20% more to get 15% more money at the end of the financial year 2008-2009. That's what they have been doing to us on all aspect of our contract. They are in a position to do it. Now if they keep doing this again and again, only beggars will be left around here. All others who can will go to places where they respect the contract they agreed on.Keep discovering
Last edited by ekpilot; 18th Feb 2008 at 07:54. Reason: typo
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ekpilot, can't argue with that...
The problem is that whilst it is all about business and productivity we have both hands tied behind our backs while we're bent over taking every 'bright idea' that erodes our Ts & Cs to the core. We have no buffer in the system to dilute or reduce the impact of new 'productive' ideas or question for example why the profit share was so low.
They have carte blanche to implement what they want, when they want... see if they get away with it before it becomes lore and in time we forget that it ever used to be different. Your wife and kids know... the zombie that used to be a husband hanging around the house until the next flight, more trips to the clinic, depression...
Think productivity? Think more fatigue and less for us more for them.
You're right of course, it is only going to get worse.
The problem is that whilst it is all about business and productivity we have both hands tied behind our backs while we're bent over taking every 'bright idea' that erodes our Ts & Cs to the core. We have no buffer in the system to dilute or reduce the impact of new 'productive' ideas or question for example why the profit share was so low.
They have carte blanche to implement what they want, when they want... see if they get away with it before it becomes lore and in time we forget that it ever used to be different. Your wife and kids know... the zombie that used to be a husband hanging around the house until the next flight, more trips to the clinic, depression...
Think productivity? Think more fatigue and less for us more for them.
You're right of course, it is only going to get worse.
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Let's wait and see!
I think this year is the make or break year for me. If it doesn't get better this year It will never get better. Sadly i will have to do what so many people have done already (probably smarter people then me ). It won't be a good enough deal for me to live here anymore. We only have one life after all. I am not prepared to take anymore reduction in T&C that's for sure. Dubai is far from being a reason to stick around for me. I do my productivity maths every year you can be sure... Let's wait and see... one more time. In the meantime the bonus/profit has been reduced that's a fact!
Keep Discovering
Keep Discovering
Last edited by ekpilot; 18th Feb 2008 at 08:41. Reason: typo
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Hello chaps,
Might be joining EK in about 6 months...you all seem very negative about the company with suggestions that t's and c's are being eroded.Is it that bad? I have several friends who joined recently who seem quite happy.
Do you think maybe the company has spread itself too thin with its huge expansion?
Surely if they want to be the best not just the biggest airline they are going to have to sort these employee problems out or they won't have any.
Regards Seagoll
Might be joining EK in about 6 months...you all seem very negative about the company with suggestions that t's and c's are being eroded.Is it that bad? I have several friends who joined recently who seem quite happy.
Do you think maybe the company has spread itself too thin with its huge expansion?
Surely if they want to be the best not just the biggest airline they are going to have to sort these employee problems out or they won't have any.
Regards Seagoll
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Honey Moon Period
The Honeymoon period lasts about 18 months nowadays. Give your friends a chance and pretty soon the whole Dubai effect will take place.
Personally, I could carry on flying for emirates till retirement. However, Dubai as a place has made me very tired. Coupled with the usual management issues (Which exist in all airlines) just makes it all that less appealing. I would much rather be based home in Europe and continue flying for the devil I know. But I know that at least in the short to medium term, that is not going to happen. So I will look for other options as they come along.
Check Six
Personally, I could carry on flying for emirates till retirement. However, Dubai as a place has made me very tired. Coupled with the usual management issues (Which exist in all airlines) just makes it all that less appealing. I would much rather be based home in Europe and continue flying for the devil I know. But I know that at least in the short to medium term, that is not going to happen. So I will look for other options as they come along.
Check Six
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It is a profit share as stated on the contract. That should mean that the higher the profit the higher the share....NOT!
Management is just doing his job. They are trained to screw the workers in order to fill proportionally their pockets.
Unfortunately that job is becoming easier and easier because workers are weaker and weaker the main reason being total lack of solidarity...and guts.Everybody is thinking for himself...having mortgages to pay..big polluting car to pay, may be a couple of families to feed , well this is their project..the way the want you to be. An unhappy consumer...to easily screw...easy to blackmail.
Union are not legal in UAE. Well we are lucky they are because otherwise some unionist pilot will be helping management to screw us better with some insights.
There are other form of protest at your reach.
It is a small button on your phone with the number 2 printed on it.
I know a company in which 80% of cockpit crew called sick on the same day.What union where failing to obtain was obtained in 48 hours....
Management is just doing his job. They are trained to screw the workers in order to fill proportionally their pockets.
Unfortunately that job is becoming easier and easier because workers are weaker and weaker the main reason being total lack of solidarity...and guts.Everybody is thinking for himself...having mortgages to pay..big polluting car to pay, may be a couple of families to feed , well this is their project..the way the want you to be. An unhappy consumer...to easily screw...easy to blackmail.
Union are not legal in UAE. Well we are lucky they are because otherwise some unionist pilot will be helping management to screw us better with some insights.
There are other form of protest at your reach.
It is a small button on your phone with the number 2 printed on it.
I know a company in which 80% of cockpit crew called sick on the same day.What union where failing to obtain was obtained in 48 hours....
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To properly understand why there is a generally negative sentiment, you need to understand where we sit as employees in the big picture.
I think it is beyond argument that the general labourers here have been exploited to the extreme. If they were paid any less, you could probably call them slaves and no one would argue, except the government, because we have human rights here.
We then are just the upper echelon of the imported labour work force. It is endemic in every locally owned busines to increase prices but not salaries. We are no different. We are not isolated and being victimised by our management. What is happening to us is normal management of workers in the UAE, it is happening to everyone and t is not going to change anytime soon and certainly not in the time frame that i need.
That is why i have made my choice to leave. Sure market forces may dictate an increase in salary, but management will always be looking to claw that back through increased productivity or some other smoke screen that effectively reduces your hourly rate. I have seen it happen many times since i arrived, it will happen again becaus that is the mentallity of employers here. It is a cultural issue. The people here have been exploiting workers for hundreds of years. Their grandfathers did it, their fathers did and now they are doing it. It is not going to change. It is the culture.
Once I understood how deeply rooted this behaviour is in the local culture, I became comfortable with the situation and realised that it is their choice to be like that, they will reap the gains and/or pay the price when the time comes, who knows. But what also became crystal clear to me was that there is no point waiting for the management to become suddenly enlightened and start paying us more than they have to. It is never going to happen. There will never be basings or commuting rosters by choice. Again, maybe the market will dictate it, but as soon as conditions allow, those gains will be withdrawn. It is the way of the Middle East.
Your choice then is, do i stay and accept the limitations of being a salaried employee in the middle east, or do i take control of my own destiny and do what i have to to make sure my family lives the life that we choose to live. Not the one that you must live as an employee in the Middle East.
I have chosen the latter. For me it is big step to walk away from from arguably the best expat job going. But for me, the life here can only be temporary, i have run out of coins to put in the ride and now have to get off.
The consolation for me is that in my lifetime, there has never been a better time to take some risks with your career. Getting a job is not an issue. It is finding the one that will give you the best quality of life that is a bit harder. One thing i know for sure is, as far as i am concerned, that job is not in Dubai.
The Rev
I think it is beyond argument that the general labourers here have been exploited to the extreme. If they were paid any less, you could probably call them slaves and no one would argue, except the government, because we have human rights here.
We then are just the upper echelon of the imported labour work force. It is endemic in every locally owned busines to increase prices but not salaries. We are no different. We are not isolated and being victimised by our management. What is happening to us is normal management of workers in the UAE, it is happening to everyone and t is not going to change anytime soon and certainly not in the time frame that i need.
That is why i have made my choice to leave. Sure market forces may dictate an increase in salary, but management will always be looking to claw that back through increased productivity or some other smoke screen that effectively reduces your hourly rate. I have seen it happen many times since i arrived, it will happen again becaus that is the mentallity of employers here. It is a cultural issue. The people here have been exploiting workers for hundreds of years. Their grandfathers did it, their fathers did and now they are doing it. It is not going to change. It is the culture.
Once I understood how deeply rooted this behaviour is in the local culture, I became comfortable with the situation and realised that it is their choice to be like that, they will reap the gains and/or pay the price when the time comes, who knows. But what also became crystal clear to me was that there is no point waiting for the management to become suddenly enlightened and start paying us more than they have to. It is never going to happen. There will never be basings or commuting rosters by choice. Again, maybe the market will dictate it, but as soon as conditions allow, those gains will be withdrawn. It is the way of the Middle East.
Your choice then is, do i stay and accept the limitations of being a salaried employee in the middle east, or do i take control of my own destiny and do what i have to to make sure my family lives the life that we choose to live. Not the one that you must live as an employee in the Middle East.
I have chosen the latter. For me it is big step to walk away from from arguably the best expat job going. But for me, the life here can only be temporary, i have run out of coins to put in the ride and now have to get off.
The consolation for me is that in my lifetime, there has never been a better time to take some risks with your career. Getting a job is not an issue. It is finding the one that will give you the best quality of life that is a bit harder. One thing i know for sure is, as far as i am concerned, that job is not in Dubai.
The Rev
