Silly rest periods in IAH (EK)
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Join Date: Mar 2001
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Silly rest periods in IAH (EK)
Oh well, I knew I was expecting too much when the Houston flight went daily, but at least I might have thought that the Medical dept/fatigue study group might be listened to this time.
As of next month, the IAH flights are almost daily, 17 hour block times, and 24hr layover, which includes to trip to/from the hotel which I've heard is an hour away!
Looks like TC will get his wish soon and keep us on the A/C to make this flight a turn around!
As of next month, the IAH flights are almost daily, 17 hour block times, and 24hr layover, which includes to trip to/from the hotel which I've heard is an hour away!
Looks like TC will get his wish soon and keep us on the A/C to make this flight a turn around!
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Some brief statistics on this little gem of a pattern;
In the 59:45 hrs TAFB, you'll be flying 55% of that time.
Total time in IAH is 24hrs:30 mins.
With travel, and no doubt the regular delays, you'll be lucky to have 20hrs in the hotel.
Supposedly there will be three days off afterwards, but my concern is the fatigue levels throughout the whole crew on the return sector, not how many days off you get after the near accident.
At what point do AAR and TC stop taking the p#*s and start taking safety seriously? I guess next it'll be LA with 12 hrs in the hotel.
No doubt the only way to deal with this is the obligatory ASRs until the company is forced to react to it (bit like the MRU ASRs; "the FRMC is monitoring the situation, and will ignore it for as long as possible")
In the 59:45 hrs TAFB, you'll be flying 55% of that time.
Total time in IAH is 24hrs:30 mins.
With travel, and no doubt the regular delays, you'll be lucky to have 20hrs in the hotel.
Supposedly there will be three days off afterwards, but my concern is the fatigue levels throughout the whole crew on the return sector, not how many days off you get after the near accident.
At what point do AAR and TC stop taking the p#*s and start taking safety seriously? I guess next it'll be LA with 12 hrs in the hotel.
No doubt the only way to deal with this is the obligatory ASRs until the company is forced to react to it (bit like the MRU ASRs; "the FRMC is monitoring the situation, and will ignore it for as long as possible")
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Same thing I heard from some friends who have flown the IAH pattern.Absolute killer.17 hrs flight there and 15hrs back at the moment.
Perhaps some of our US pilots can speak to the FAA and voice some concerns.I must go back and make sure I have put avoid IAH on the latest bid.
Perhaps some of our US pilots can speak to the FAA and voice some concerns.I must go back and make sure I have put avoid IAH on the latest bid.
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what_goes_up; -
What a puerile f*%king comment. I hope you don't feature in any serious fatigue risk management committee.
At best, you have a shallow understanding of what ULR fatigue is all about. It's certainly not only about time in an aircraft bunk.
What a puerile f*%king comment. I hope you don't feature in any serious fatigue risk management committee.
At best, you have a shallow understanding of what ULR fatigue is all about. It's certainly not only about time in an aircraft bunk.
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Mate
I'm doing it for years now, so I know exactly what I am talking about.
But no worries, I am in no committee. Couldn't stand to work for sissies who'd rather get a 8-5 job.
I'm doing it for years now, so I know exactly what I am talking about.
But no worries, I am in no committee. Couldn't stand to work for sissies who'd rather get a 8-5 job.
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what goes up
Do you know that there's no difference if you sleep in the bunk, sleep on passenger seat or working walking s*itting or pi**ing, you still in the aircraft for 17 hours???? And just fyi not everybody can sleep in bunk.. and for people who can stay in the bunk for 7 hours.. they really amazed me.
next time let your mouth say the comment (close to your brain if you have one ).. not from your a** hole.
Do you know that there's no difference if you sleep in the bunk, sleep on passenger seat or working walking s*itting or pi**ing, you still in the aircraft for 17 hours???? And just fyi not everybody can sleep in bunk.. and for people who can stay in the bunk for 7 hours.. they really amazed me.
next time let your mouth say the comment (close to your brain if you have one ).. not from your a** hole.
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And just fyi not everybody can sleep in bunk..
That is where aviation is going. Either you learn to prepare for a ULR flight to be tired at the right time and be able to get at least some sleep or you fly for LoCo's and do up's and down's the whole day but be in bed at a convenient time.
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Typical idiot comment Fatbus.You really have a good understanding of FTL's and bidding.Its because of dicks like you that airlines like EK get away with this crap.If you actually fly for a living come and join EK and I'm sure you can get as many of these flights as you like.Cant wait to see you fit your months flying into 10 days.
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Guys,
Personally, I don't mind these rotations as I can sleep quite well in the bunk. Having said that however, I must agree that this rotation is an absolute disgrace! It's not because I can sleep well, that the rest of my crew will be able to do the same thing. Also, the comment that you must avoid it then is quite silly, because there is no guarantee that you won't receive the pairing when avoiding it. I guess some of the previous suggestions are worth looking into: write ASR's, contact the FAA if you are American and let the (aviation) world know that this pairing is just too much...
MR8
Personally, I don't mind these rotations as I can sleep quite well in the bunk. Having said that however, I must agree that this rotation is an absolute disgrace! It's not because I can sleep well, that the rest of my crew will be able to do the same thing. Also, the comment that you must avoid it then is quite silly, because there is no guarantee that you won't receive the pairing when avoiding it. I guess some of the previous suggestions are worth looking into: write ASR's, contact the FAA if you are American and let the (aviation) world know that this pairing is just too much...
MR8
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Dune , been doing it a lot longer than you .Just get over it , you don't have to bid those trips if you don't want to . FYI I do and enjoy the time off.
And as someone else said that is the way aviation is going , if you don't like it don't do it ,you have choices, stop bitching like girly man . Most of the guys on my street like the ULR 's
Just to add , Dune , where you here when we did the Moscow turns? I was and did the month in 8 days- Sun and Tues . Oh ya that was when the weekend was thrus and fri, but I'm sure you knew that.
And as someone else said that is the way aviation is going , if you don't like it don't do it ,you have choices, stop bitching like girly man . Most of the guys on my street like the ULR 's
Just to add , Dune , where you here when we did the Moscow turns? I was and did the month in 8 days- Sun and Tues . Oh ya that was when the weekend was thrus and fri, but I'm sure you knew that.
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I remember doing the slingshot to HKG.I also remember how nice it was living at Chicago Beach.Whats doing return Moscows with 3 pilots got to do with it.How many hours did you actually do in the 8 days flying that allowed you to have the rest of the month off.How many of the guys in your street like done the IAH flight.You must live in that street with all the guys from the insomniac's association.
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Am I the only one who thinks fatbus and what goes up are rather misguided to say the least.I for one cannot believe the cr p coming out of them!!
Personally I have been flying ULR with several other airlines long before EK even got out of the gulf area and I can tell you EK have got it all wrong.
Bunks far fron the flight deck,no firm policy on use of seats in the cabin(other airlines block 2 J class seats for the heavy crews),short layovers,insufficient rest on return,the list is almost endless.
Yes its good hours etc etc but in terms of ones health and sustainability its dangerous.
Its gonna be hard to avoid these trips now as most guys I talk to are not really interested in doing them.Wouldnt it have been nice to have some dialouge with mangemnet over these trips before we started them.We have lots of experience out there who have done this type of flying for years.
Over and out
Personally I have been flying ULR with several other airlines long before EK even got out of the gulf area and I can tell you EK have got it all wrong.
Bunks far fron the flight deck,no firm policy on use of seats in the cabin(other airlines block 2 J class seats for the heavy crews),short layovers,insufficient rest on return,the list is almost endless.
Yes its good hours etc etc but in terms of ones health and sustainability its dangerous.
Its gonna be hard to avoid these trips now as most guys I talk to are not really interested in doing them.Wouldnt it have been nice to have some dialouge with mangemnet over these trips before we started them.We have lots of experience out there who have done this type of flying for years.
Over and out
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EK has been conducting ULR for about 10s in the scheme of things. Unless you've done it for at least ten years of your career then I reckon you're blowing smoke out of your bum. I love the idea of doing all my flying on long trips so I can get the time off but the way EK does it is both unprofessional and immature and the people that agree with these policies reflect that.
All these wheels have been invented. There is no innovation in this stuff just bent machinery.
All these wheels have been invented. There is no innovation in this stuff just bent machinery.
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Been doing this ULR stuff since 1990 so no smoke there!
quite agree with the comments about EK s policy on this type of flying being immature and unproffesional.But think most of us have been in EK long enough to know that our view points dont matter that much or at all.
Suppose all we can do is bid or not for these trips as we see fit just like any other part of the roster.
But guys please do not think that these 24 layover trips are what this type of flying is all about.The poor guys who get the short end of the stick who have to rest first in a dark tube for 7 hours when departing at 08 30 am are the ones who feel the pain the most.
As for the comment previously about not being able to sleep in the bunk is not the companys problem.I see it as partly there fault.As per my previous post no seats available in the cabin and claustrphobic and I would imagine rather unhygenic bunks are all part of the problem.Ohh for the original boeing designed crew rest compartment.
rather rushed post sorry for the grammar, of for a curry
Over and out
Cheers
quite agree with the comments about EK s policy on this type of flying being immature and unproffesional.But think most of us have been in EK long enough to know that our view points dont matter that much or at all.
Suppose all we can do is bid or not for these trips as we see fit just like any other part of the roster.
But guys please do not think that these 24 layover trips are what this type of flying is all about.The poor guys who get the short end of the stick who have to rest first in a dark tube for 7 hours when departing at 08 30 am are the ones who feel the pain the most.
As for the comment previously about not being able to sleep in the bunk is not the companys problem.I see it as partly there fault.As per my previous post no seats available in the cabin and claustrphobic and I would imagine rather unhygenic bunks are all part of the problem.Ohh for the original boeing designed crew rest compartment.
rather rushed post sorry for the grammar, of for a curry
Over and out
Cheers