QatarAirways Probe
Join Date: May 2007
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CR
While I generally agree with your generalisation, it will be interesting to see how much truth the RELTA tests reveal. Important to remember that will ONLY show the level of English understood/spoken etc. The rest is up to the training department – I think they know the real truth .……. 
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Without wanting to go into any polemic regarding our training department (Yes, they know what is wrong and where the problems lay. No they will not do anything about it due to commercial pressure) I have to agree with CR on this one...
Saying that good aviators only can be from UK/OZ or the USA is insulting and plain stupid.
I have seen the opposite as well. Remember the whole bunch of Spaniards we had here last year from Air Madrid. They all came with JAR-OPS licences and A330 TR. Well, all but two where requested to leave or where fired at this moment.
What about the Swiss guy with the fake Captains licence ...etc etc etc...
UK/OZ/USA do not have a monopoly on good professional pilots, not by far!
The part where you claim QR is handicapped due to its geographical location is unfortunately very true. Most people originating from a westerly orientated developed country will prefer AUH or DXB over DOH as a base!
The man in charge knows this very well. All he cares for is to crew the airplanes and preferably he will do this by hiring individuals with no other option available to them.
Pilots with only an ICAO licence or the wrong passports, not allowing them to live in the more civilized countries.
These pilots do not cause any troubles and he knows it very well! Unfortunately for our paying pax, these pilots are in general of a much lower level!
Lately we had a huge influx of Latin pilots as well. Same problem there. Level of English is very low, flying skills average, opportunities back home nil (lots of jobs but no money) (Generalisation --> Luckily we have seen some very good guys from that part of the world as well.)
That being said, we still have a rather large group of pilots who are really professional and they come from all over the world!
And in all honesty, I dare to say that our level of pilots on an average is not worse or better than EK or EY!
Compared to EY we are way ahead in terms of documentation, training syllabi etc...
Compared to EK we are somewhat behind but not that far. OK, we do not have the shiny training infrastructure EK has with their training centre but procedure wise, I dare to say we are on the same level. EK’s procedures are being suffocated by strange policies, all originating from their dominantly "English" approach to training and SOPs.
One thing EK and EY have going from them is the fact that they can recruit from a much larger ( and thus offering a wider choice) pilot pool.
So while these companies are saved by recruiting pilots who do not need such a large amount of training to bring them up to standards, QR has to do the opposite.
We have to recruit the leftovers, but until 6 months ago QR managed to bring these guys more or less to the desired standard by offering much more and generally better training!
Lately however, due to the training department letting of their guard and due to an increased recruitment requirement worldwide, the level of training had to be dropped in order to meet the commercial requirements!
And this now is an extremely dangerous position for QR to be in! Combining low level recruits with a lower level of training is a potential recipe for disaster!
On top of that, and this is due to some extremely flawed and poor decision making from our rather weak flight ops management, most senior FOs and Captains who have another option available to them, are leaving or thinking about leaving in the near future. No real future is offered to them by this company so who can blame them!
So this is the second ingredient for that recipe for disaster....
So unless QR does not take an 180 Degree turn in their mentality towards pilot recruitment, training and management, this company truly will see a disaster and become a refugee camp for the outcast of the pilot community!
And this goes for all levels of employment within the company! The whole company is infested by under qualified and incompetent people, many of them in important key positions! Never did they receive any training, never did the company offer them a course but still they have lots of decision power.
Just take a visit to the financial department, rostering department, HR, etc....Mostly you will find are people taking advantage of their powers but without them getting the job done. Luckily, just as in flight ops, these "bad “people and their work are being corrected by the few very competent people working in those departments as well.
And if this continues, our paying passengers should be alerted before its too late!
Saying that good aviators only can be from UK/OZ or the USA is insulting and plain stupid.
I have seen the opposite as well. Remember the whole bunch of Spaniards we had here last year from Air Madrid. They all came with JAR-OPS licences and A330 TR. Well, all but two where requested to leave or where fired at this moment.
What about the Swiss guy with the fake Captains licence ...etc etc etc...
UK/OZ/USA do not have a monopoly on good professional pilots, not by far!
The part where you claim QR is handicapped due to its geographical location is unfortunately very true. Most people originating from a westerly orientated developed country will prefer AUH or DXB over DOH as a base!
The man in charge knows this very well. All he cares for is to crew the airplanes and preferably he will do this by hiring individuals with no other option available to them.
Pilots with only an ICAO licence or the wrong passports, not allowing them to live in the more civilized countries.
These pilots do not cause any troubles and he knows it very well! Unfortunately for our paying pax, these pilots are in general of a much lower level!
Lately we had a huge influx of Latin pilots as well. Same problem there. Level of English is very low, flying skills average, opportunities back home nil (lots of jobs but no money) (Generalisation --> Luckily we have seen some very good guys from that part of the world as well.)
That being said, we still have a rather large group of pilots who are really professional and they come from all over the world!
And in all honesty, I dare to say that our level of pilots on an average is not worse or better than EK or EY!
Compared to EY we are way ahead in terms of documentation, training syllabi etc...
Compared to EK we are somewhat behind but not that far. OK, we do not have the shiny training infrastructure EK has with their training centre but procedure wise, I dare to say we are on the same level. EK’s procedures are being suffocated by strange policies, all originating from their dominantly "English" approach to training and SOPs.
One thing EK and EY have going from them is the fact that they can recruit from a much larger ( and thus offering a wider choice) pilot pool.
So while these companies are saved by recruiting pilots who do not need such a large amount of training to bring them up to standards, QR has to do the opposite.
We have to recruit the leftovers, but until 6 months ago QR managed to bring these guys more or less to the desired standard by offering much more and generally better training!
Lately however, due to the training department letting of their guard and due to an increased recruitment requirement worldwide, the level of training had to be dropped in order to meet the commercial requirements!
And this now is an extremely dangerous position for QR to be in! Combining low level recruits with a lower level of training is a potential recipe for disaster!
On top of that, and this is due to some extremely flawed and poor decision making from our rather weak flight ops management, most senior FOs and Captains who have another option available to them, are leaving or thinking about leaving in the near future. No real future is offered to them by this company so who can blame them!
So this is the second ingredient for that recipe for disaster....
So unless QR does not take an 180 Degree turn in their mentality towards pilot recruitment, training and management, this company truly will see a disaster and become a refugee camp for the outcast of the pilot community!
And this goes for all levels of employment within the company! The whole company is infested by under qualified and incompetent people, many of them in important key positions! Never did they receive any training, never did the company offer them a course but still they have lots of decision power.
Just take a visit to the financial department, rostering department, HR, etc....Mostly you will find are people taking advantage of their powers but without them getting the job done. Luckily, just as in flight ops, these "bad “people and their work are being corrected by the few very competent people working in those departments as well.
And if this continues, our paying passengers should be alerted before its too late!
Last edited by shneidertrophy; 17th Dec 2007 at 04:46.
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Cavelino, Schneider..edited post as you both right,it came across wrong re. pilot origins.Agree that origin/license has nothing to do with ability, I have flown/tested many pilots from around the world and have seen excellent pilots from all corners of the world. The countries were mentioned to reflect EK/EYs preferred recruit and was not meant to suggest they were 'better'. The overall message is as Schneider states,it is still the last choice and as such will attract a certain market that will put up with less.
Join Date: Aug 2006
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I am amazed with above comments! In Europe QR is considered one of the best carriers of the Gulf. Very to know that its not worth joining.
All comments about origin and skills should be totally rejected!!
All comments about origin and skills should be totally rejected!!
Join Date: Sep 2007
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vivace and sqwakbox
Why are you working in Qatar Airways?
Are you from, South America, India or Pakistan?
Qatar Airways are yours first choice airline?
Are you an 'prime' candidate in the aviation market?
Are you from, South America, India or Pakistan?
Qatar Airways are yours first choice airline?
Are you an 'prime' candidate in the aviation market?
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Could anyone update us to the state of QRs new management, a little while back it was posted that many changes and sackings were going on. I have heard that the HR team has all changed, has this made a difference.
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Race
Without getting into any controversial political topic, me and a lot of my friends believe that Race is Not the determining value/factor in one's progress. In today's world it is the developing nations who are taking the world by the forelock.
In no time will India, Pakistan and South America, as mentioned by one of our Superior Human (Nationality) pilot, be leading the stride for a safe efficient aviation sphere.
A few shortcomings still prevail in the so called third world countries which is why the countries on the whole have not been named in the list of developed countries YET, but that does not mean that the people in these countries are of an inferior race.
India as Most of us know had some of the earliest civilizations and lead the world in many discoveries and super powers like US, have employed people from India in its Top Positions with many being in the Scienctific Aviation field like NASA itself.
It is a pity that people look down upon others based on their passports causing ill things like prejudice and caste-barriers. In this century people working for flagships and airlines which portray ones background should be a little more mature than this.
If they are not, then these are the kind of people AIRLINES should be wary of hiring as lets face the Fact. ITS A MULTICULTURAL WORLD NOW and It is unfortunately our field Aviation itself which has helped bridge the GAP between the SO called Superior and Inferior races making no one any different than the other.
AND CHILL, WE are ALL HUMAN BEINGS....!
With Best Intentions,
Mav.
In no time will India, Pakistan and South America, as mentioned by one of our Superior Human (Nationality) pilot, be leading the stride for a safe efficient aviation sphere.
A few shortcomings still prevail in the so called third world countries which is why the countries on the whole have not been named in the list of developed countries YET, but that does not mean that the people in these countries are of an inferior race.
India as Most of us know had some of the earliest civilizations and lead the world in many discoveries and super powers like US, have employed people from India in its Top Positions with many being in the Scienctific Aviation field like NASA itself.
It is a pity that people look down upon others based on their passports causing ill things like prejudice and caste-barriers. In this century people working for flagships and airlines which portray ones background should be a little more mature than this.
If they are not, then these are the kind of people AIRLINES should be wary of hiring as lets face the Fact. ITS A MULTICULTURAL WORLD NOW and It is unfortunately our field Aviation itself which has helped bridge the GAP between the SO called Superior and Inferior races making no one any different than the other.
AND CHILL, WE are ALL HUMAN BEINGS....!
With Best Intentions,
Mav.
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Lets not forget another important factor as well.Doha.
Not the most attractive place on earth...this probably limits the place where Q.A. is able to recruit as well...
People are refusing to come here or are resigning from qatar airways because of Doha as well...
No change..no future...
Not the most attractive place on earth...this probably limits the place where Q.A. is able to recruit as well...People are refusing to come here or are resigning from qatar airways because of Doha as well...
No change..no future...
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Think you guys are worth more
from wot I read you guys seem like you are worth tons more than wot is going on at QR .. am sure some of u see it as great .. but from wot I read its not so great..n even tho they are bringing in new people - they also don't seem so great (ex BA?) .. sad ..think you all are worth more than abuse. cheap pay.. crappy accom.. i hope it gets better for you .. but am not sure ....
take care you guys ...
take care you guys ...
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A really good post Willie, an experienced and professional opinion.
I worked at QR for 5 years and left 2 years ago to join a major European longhaul legacy carrier with a big reputation. I can make direct comparisons. Technically speaking, documentation, manuals, flight planning, SOP's, checking, training and maintenance were in my opinion all at a similar or higher level at QR, they compare very favourably indeed. Some of the people I few with at QR would be a credit to any airline anywhere.
I worked at QR for 5 years and left 2 years ago to join a major European longhaul legacy carrier with a big reputation. I can make direct comparisons. Technically speaking, documentation, manuals, flight planning, SOP's, checking, training and maintenance were in my opinion all at a similar or higher level at QR, they compare very favourably indeed. Some of the people I few with at QR would be a credit to any airline anywhere.
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Like most company's in the world, there are good things and bad at Qatar Airways. No company can be perfect. It is growing thus the problems. Regarding the pilots some are excellent, some good,some average and yes some bad. Nothing new there , all airlines have more or less the same kind of work force. GMFO does his best to make the operation a fair place to work and so do some of the other management pilots. The A330 fleet seems to be a good fleet to fly for , pretty well managed and rosters improving every month ( plus they are out by the 21st/22nd of the preceeding month ). The picture is a little confused on the A300 & A320 fleets, but who said this is a perfect world.
The airline has great potential, the kinks need to be worked out. It is the small things that make a airline great, hope for the best guys and happy new year.
The airline has great potential, the kinks need to be worked out. It is the small things that make a airline great, hope for the best guys and happy new year.
