EY's 12 Hour Layovers.
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EY's 12 Hour Layovers.
I'm just looking to get a feel as to how others view 12 hours down route. Currently it seems its EY's Fav thing. There excuse is that the pilots prefer to have little time downroute and more time at home, however there is no requirement to have anytime off after say a 12 hour layover in JNB or MAN.
I suppose the main thing is, is it safe? my guess is not...thoughts?
I suppose the main thing is, is it safe? my guess is not...thoughts?
Join Date: Jun 2007
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this is bul
**t ey doesn t care about you.. the only reason is lack of crew and JH remuneration based on profit!!! because when you get back home you ve also get minimum rest .. They just don t care.. and if you ask CA he will tell you that is not really true because you don t get 12h but 17h which is much better and not minimum rest 
**t ey doesn t care about you.. the only reason is lack of crew and JH remuneration based on profit!!! because when you get back home you ve also get minimum rest .. They just don t care.. and if you ask CA he will tell you that is not really true because you don t get 12h but 17h which is much better and not minimum rest
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To Ironbutt57
Have to say 24hrs. That way if you are over tired and as a result can't sleep you can watch tv for a while until you do pass out. On a 12hr layover when you cant sleep you get worried about being to tired the next day.
Thats just my opion.
Also seen your name on pprune for a while and I am wondering about why you called yourself Ironbutt57
. Is that because there are 56 Ironbutt's before you out there????
No offence intended just wondering.
Thats just my opion.
Also seen your name on pprune for a while and I am wondering about why you called yourself Ironbutt57
. Is that because there are 56 Ironbutt's before you out there????No offence intended just wondering.
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You guys need to nip this 12hr stuff in the bud whichever way you can. Difficult in the gulf though without a union. You need a touch of common sense from your management which is probably unlikely. This is obviously their way of getting every last drop out of the crew. Even EK don't do that as far as I know. You guys must be knackered!
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same guys did this at GF a few years back... not that i blame them but... it has nothing to do with time with family. it is a direct result of shortage of crew and trying to maximize wha is available to have coverage for more flights. by only leaving you there for 12 hrs you are more productive can work more duty days and allows them to have some standby coverage. to argue if this is safe is like beating your head against a brick wall. any company will just quote their regulatory requirments. fact is this is increase in risk and no company should do it but what can you do habibi
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What is RH doing out there? He used to be with the CAA in the UK, they'd never let this kind of thing persist. Sounds like there are a few people in high places who might just be out there for the short-term and only really care about the bottom line and then their bonuses. Sad really as Etihad was pitched as a world class airline, obviously not for it's pilots...
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Not forgetting that FRA is also a 12 hour layover now. Two through the night flights back in the morning to find yourself on standby 12 hours later. Its pure stupidity.
what are the flight ops pumpets doing?
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RH and PM?? All they care are their pockets, maybe they know they will not last long! They don't even stand on their pilots side when things happened..All RH care about is no pax upgrades from pilots..All PM care about is nothing, look at the mess in training dept!! it takes about 40-50 days to complete about 16 sim sessions and they say they are short of pilots.
Things just got worse now compared to before..as warned by the GF guys..
Things just got worse now compared to before..as warned by the GF guys..
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18hrs, friend of mine at KLM was involved in a study on rest/time zone aclimitazion, and the KLM foks dong the north America routes preferred the 18/36 hr layover..as opposed to the standard 12/24 option...of course their friequencies to markets easily permit this...our here don't anyway..
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Gulf Air required min rest in 1976 as a tempory concession from crews.
However min rest grew more and more common and is now an accepted norm by the controlling Caa and medical advisors...ie as they do not have to do it.
Min rest in my experiance is a killer and thoes that have done it as a norm in Gulf Air are now either dead before retirement age or have had a serious health event shortly after retirement.
Actually min rest in my day at Gulf Air 1974 until 2000 was in the ops manual as.... 9 hours at the hotel.
On landing ground staff were always the first to burst in gabbling away demanding the new earliest departure time of our next flight after min rest...they needed this information to relay this to ops Bahrain........if you were foolish enough to give them a time.... this became law... you and your crew were now on yourown and potentially in deep doo doo...basically you had screwed yourself.
The result of your foolishness in cooperating was no ground staff to speed you through customs/immigration etc.. and you and your crew would hang around for ever in 35degrees plus for the crew transport.....
The better approach was to say.. "I will call you on arrival in my room at the hotel with the new departure time, what is your name and what is your staff number, and your telephone number"....(you did all this because sometimes rooms on min rest were not available or only some rooms were available, some were still dirty and steaming from previous crews.
For my sins I was not going to have my crews asleep in the hotel lobby on min rest or waiting for hours for a room or subjected to forced shareing of rooms, washing and changing in airport toilets etc....)
Having got my crew accommodated I phoned the new departure time into Gulf OPs Bahrain and the airport also adviseing that crew min rest of 9 hours would start again if we were phoned within 8 hours from now by anyone before our wake up call....this attitude resulted in telexes being slipped under hotel room doors which crews could if awake and so inclined read....generally it was to advise us of further delays or extensions of several days to our blocks...I once went on a three day block and was required to remain away for 17days over Christmas and New Years
.... my Captains voyage report was not believed in the fleet office and I was called in about it...basically they did not have a clue what was happening to their pilots down route and had zero authority to do anythying about it.
However min rest grew more and more common and is now an accepted norm by the controlling Caa and medical advisors...ie as they do not have to do it.
Min rest in my experiance is a killer and thoes that have done it as a norm in Gulf Air are now either dead before retirement age or have had a serious health event shortly after retirement.
Actually min rest in my day at Gulf Air 1974 until 2000 was in the ops manual as.... 9 hours at the hotel.
On landing ground staff were always the first to burst in gabbling away demanding the new earliest departure time of our next flight after min rest...they needed this information to relay this to ops Bahrain........if you were foolish enough to give them a time.... this became law... you and your crew were now on yourown and potentially in deep doo doo...basically you had screwed yourself.
The result of your foolishness in cooperating was no ground staff to speed you through customs/immigration etc.. and you and your crew would hang around for ever in 35degrees plus for the crew transport.....
The better approach was to say.. "I will call you on arrival in my room at the hotel with the new departure time, what is your name and what is your staff number, and your telephone number"....(you did all this because sometimes rooms on min rest were not available or only some rooms were available, some were still dirty and steaming from previous crews.
For my sins I was not going to have my crews asleep in the hotel lobby on min rest or waiting for hours for a room or subjected to forced shareing of rooms, washing and changing in airport toilets etc....)
Having got my crew accommodated I phoned the new departure time into Gulf OPs Bahrain and the airport also adviseing that crew min rest of 9 hours would start again if we were phoned within 8 hours from now by anyone before our wake up call....this attitude resulted in telexes being slipped under hotel room doors which crews could if awake and so inclined read....generally it was to advise us of further delays or extensions of several days to our blocks...I once went on a three day block and was required to remain away for 17days over Christmas and New Years
.... my Captains voyage report was not believed in the fleet office and I was called in about it...basically they did not have a clue what was happening to their pilots down route and had zero authority to do anythying about it.
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Well if the last two posts are correct then I can see why you are today unhappy and are resigning and moving eastwards....I was never unhappy at Gulf Air as I always felt I had great people on my fleet to fly with and every time my head hit the pillow my cash register rang inbound funds...true it would have been nicer if the company cared about you and stuck to their contract and was better organised...however I always thought it better they were in chaos and thus needed expats....All in all my time at Gulf Air did me OK...and I was lucky to make retirement age intact...the min rest heart attack arrived four years later ...my young mate Rad who joined on the same day as me in 1974 was as you know not so lucky.