Does Emirates ban their pilots from sitting in the cabin during ULR flights?
Thread Starter
Does Emirates ban their pilots from sitting in the cabin during ULR flights like EY?
Was wondering what EK's policy is with the BCRC on the bus or crew rest on the triple 7? Ey has a total ban on the pilots leaving the rest area and either eating or watching a movie in the cabin 
during crew rest. Cabin crew are instructed to report pilots for non compliance....Heading down the QR path.
during crew rest. Cabin crew are instructed to report pilots for non compliance....Heading down the QR path.
Last edited by NG_Kaptain; 1st Nov 2007 at 15:09.
Thread Starter
The Etihad OMA used to state we could sit in any suitable cabin seat or the crew rest area. Now it says not to sit in any passenger seat....period...only horizontal rest in the rest area. That's real hard to do especially on a morning departure to SYD when you really arent sleepy but would like to rest sitting down, maybe watch a movie or catch up on the computer... Its causing some morale issues down here. The travelling engineer gets a seat, but the captain and first officer dont.
Last edited by NG_Kaptain; 1st Nov 2007 at 14:58. Reason: clarity
Whats the difference between having a pilot in the cabin for the entire perth flight up to 12 hours or an occasional one in the cabin on a 14 hour leg.
Its all a load of ****e like the middle east mentality.
Its all a load of ****e like the middle east mentality.
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A real ****ty issue and I believe such a policy was made up by management guys with brown stuff for grey matter.
I've seen airline executives enjoying themselves quietly ( albeit well dressed in business suits ) in business/first class lounges during duty breaks. Likewise management executives treat their family members and friends to nice executive lounges while receiving their ( official, I don't think so ) visits to their offices and ivory towers.
Pilots must make it be known that they need good rest ( not necessarily only sleep ) and break from flight monitoring duties to remain fresh and alert during critical phases of flight. Passengers and management must be RE-EDUCATED on this. Years ago while ' freeloaading " on an MH B777 ( which had a front crew bunk ), a first class pax was instigated by his partner to complained about the skipper's presence in the FC. I overheard the exchange: the skipper asked the pax whether he valued his life if he were to undergo critical surgery and the surgeon wasn't properly rested and groggy, whether if he would begrudge proper rest/recreation/proper and good food for his his surgeon just prior to going under the knife. The skipper " enlightened " the pax that by landing time he would have been on duty for close to 16 hours and without proper rest/recreation/food, he would be almost punch drunk, not really suited for the horrible weather at the eastern seaboard airport of Newark. He had gone to FC for a proper meal ( simultaneously watching the video )....the cocky pax would listened to none of that until the skipper said " I take it that you are now officially interfering with my legal rest time; would you like a witness to that effect for your official complain to the company and my report to the New York Port Authority police ". The pax backed down...we all patted the skipper on the back later. I did not know if anything untoward happened to the skipper as I had left MAS later and I heard the skipper left too. However I thought the skipper made a good point; but I am sure this would not fly with those green eyed monsters we are unfortunate to have as airline bosses and pain in the arse pax.
I've seen airline executives enjoying themselves quietly ( albeit well dressed in business suits ) in business/first class lounges during duty breaks. Likewise management executives treat their family members and friends to nice executive lounges while receiving their ( official, I don't think so ) visits to their offices and ivory towers.
Pilots must make it be known that they need good rest ( not necessarily only sleep ) and break from flight monitoring duties to remain fresh and alert during critical phases of flight. Passengers and management must be RE-EDUCATED on this. Years ago while ' freeloaading " on an MH B777 ( which had a front crew bunk ), a first class pax was instigated by his partner to complained about the skipper's presence in the FC. I overheard the exchange: the skipper asked the pax whether he valued his life if he were to undergo critical surgery and the surgeon wasn't properly rested and groggy, whether if he would begrudge proper rest/recreation/proper and good food for his his surgeon just prior to going under the knife. The skipper " enlightened " the pax that by landing time he would have been on duty for close to 16 hours and without proper rest/recreation/food, he would be almost punch drunk, not really suited for the horrible weather at the eastern seaboard airport of Newark. He had gone to FC for a proper meal ( simultaneously watching the video )....the cocky pax would listened to none of that until the skipper said " I take it that you are now officially interfering with my legal rest time; would you like a witness to that effect for your official complain to the company and my report to the New York Port Authority police ". The pax backed down...we all patted the skipper on the back later. I did not know if anything untoward happened to the skipper as I had left MAS later and I heard the skipper left too. However I thought the skipper made a good point; but I am sure this would not fly with those green eyed monsters we are unfortunate to have as airline bosses and pain in the arse pax.
Last edited by mohdawang; 1st Nov 2007 at 03:51.
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No FC seating for pilots
This directive is supposedly direct from TC.
Therefore, like the jumpseat, basings, etc it will not change as long he is the boss.
Might as well live with it, or vote with your feet.
Therefore, like the jumpseat, basings, etc it will not change as long he is the boss.
Might as well live with it, or vote with your feet.
Thread Starter
Ey Oma
EY's OMA states so, infact is says no pax seat in first, business or economy may be used unless previously authorised (diamond, pearl, coral). Pilots end up sitting in the galley on an air larder or cabin jump seat to rest when not horizontal in the coffin.
The mechanic gets a business class seat and is constantly mistaken for a pilot since the uniform is similar except for the eppulates.
The mechanic gets a business class seat and is constantly mistaken for a pilot since the uniform is similar except for the eppulates.
Last edited by NG_Kaptain; 1st Nov 2007 at 14:56. Reason: added
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A simliar question was posed on our pilot group e mail recently. If the aircraft is full and the resting crew can't get back to the front due to a fire or structural failure, where do they sit for landing?
On some of our flights where the CRC is available and first class is full the captain rests in the CRC at the rear. In the case that he can't get back to the front he becomes excluded from the decision making process and taking his required position for the rest of the flight. In the much more likely case of a depressurisation or uncontrollable fire his input to the 'master plan' following the IAs may be a long time coming.
On some of our flights where the CRC is available and first class is full the captain rests in the CRC at the rear. In the case that he can't get back to the front he becomes excluded from the decision making process and taking his required position for the rest of the flight. In the much more likely case of a depressurisation or uncontrollable fire his input to the 'master plan' following the IAs may be a long time coming.
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I share your concerns about the difficulty - and maybe the impossibility - of the captain getting back to the cockpit in some circumstances. It's unfortunate to note that the very circumstances that would prevent him doing so would probably mean the crew were dealing with a very, very serious situation indeed, where the captain's input might prove to be rather important, even vital.
Last edited by MTOW; 1st Nov 2007 at 16:53.
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NG Kaptain and Travelling Engineers
Since i am both a Licensed Engineer and now an A320 pilot (short haul I know BUT), I can firmly come down on the side that the engineer SHOULD have a seat.
Firstly, the point that the crew at landing could be on duty for 16 hours or so and should be refreshed is no less important for the engineer goign with you. When you think about it, pilots are getting off to go and rest at that point. The engineer has to get off and WORK!
Now do you want the engineer who certifies that the aircraft and consequently responsible for ALL the inabitants inside ALSO, to be knackered either? Nope not me mate.
Also, at EK, the seat the engineer sits on is NOT a freebie seat as most people think. Its probably the most expensive seat on the aircraft. its an internal purchase by the engineering department at FULL UNRESTRICTED FARE by the engineering department to send the engineer with the aircraft.
This money is recharged back to operations by engineering along with the cost of supplying the engineer for that period of time.
Internal accountancy!
And the rate for the boys who are sitting there when I was doing it was 65Dhs per hour. When you think that is only £8.50 per hour is it such a big deal to give them a nice seat for a few hours to sit and relax before he has to go and earn his crust?
Hope that sheds a little light on your travelling Engineers
Flying Spanner
Firstly, the point that the crew at landing could be on duty for 16 hours or so and should be refreshed is no less important for the engineer goign with you. When you think about it, pilots are getting off to go and rest at that point. The engineer has to get off and WORK!
Now do you want the engineer who certifies that the aircraft and consequently responsible for ALL the inabitants inside ALSO, to be knackered either? Nope not me mate.
Also, at EK, the seat the engineer sits on is NOT a freebie seat as most people think. Its probably the most expensive seat on the aircraft. its an internal purchase by the engineering department at FULL UNRESTRICTED FARE by the engineering department to send the engineer with the aircraft.
This money is recharged back to operations by engineering along with the cost of supplying the engineer for that period of time.
Internal accountancy!
And the rate for the boys who are sitting there when I was doing it was 65Dhs per hour. When you think that is only £8.50 per hour is it such a big deal to give them a nice seat for a few hours to sit and relax before he has to go and earn his crust?
Hope that sheds a little light on your travelling Engineers
Flying Spanner
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I agree.. Pilots should be given the option of rest at 1J/K or the use of the crc.. They should also be given a menu when they are sitting on their designated seat in first class and get pampered throughout the flight. IT IS extremely important that this type of policy is implemented in EK as to retain the wonderfull special pilots they have in todays capacity.
EMIRATES PILOTS DESERVE MORE THAN WHAT THEY ARE GETTING...
EMIRATES PILOTS DESERVE MORE THAN WHAT THEY ARE GETTING...
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Hi boy, our smiley sure has green eyes! Reptilian logic!
As for FlyingSpanner, no one begrudge the mechanic's ( oops, LAME's ) eligibility for a good seat for rest. In fact the engineer should rightly be classified as a " flight crew " ( on GD, etc ) and be allocated a horizontal rest bunk so that he can discharge his duties after flight. Likewise, the pilots should equally, if no more, be required to be provided suitable rest ( I stress again, not just only sleepin quarters ) facilities.
Any arguments against providing pilots with the best rest available are just arsey logic by green eye monsters!
As for FlyingSpanner, no one begrudge the mechanic's ( oops, LAME's ) eligibility for a good seat for rest. In fact the engineer should rightly be classified as a " flight crew " ( on GD, etc ) and be allocated a horizontal rest bunk so that he can discharge his duties after flight. Likewise, the pilots should equally, if no more, be required to be provided suitable rest ( I stress again, not just only sleepin quarters ) facilities.
Any arguments against providing pilots with the best rest available are just arsey logic by green eye monsters!
Last edited by mohdawang; 1st Nov 2007 at 19:48.
Thread Starter
Flying spanner
What I was trying to say is if the mechanic has a seat saved for him why cant we use one when when one is vacant...Not saying block seats, unless the BCRC is u/s. BTW the only reason we carry a mechanic is to reset the inflight entertainment and fix the Diamond and Pearl class seats which are constantly breaking.
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Like EK Lawyer, I'm still waiting for an indication of where the policy is on the use of seats FOR EK. A fictious policy perhaps, surely not?
Good to see that John Boy understands how it really is.
Good to see that John Boy understands how it really is.
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What is the CAR Ops reference on the humidifier? This is the first I have heard of one. At Etihad we have no humidifiers in the BCRC. We have no bedding just a bussiness class blanket and a pax pillow and no company provided PJ's. I wear my Spider man Pyjama's.
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There was an FCI out soon after the introduction of the EK345 saying we couldn't use First for crew rest, but could use Business. The FCI has long since expired and hasn't made it into any of the manuals as far as I know. Like Locke says, don't abuse and don't shout about it and there won't be a problem.
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I also remember an email from LL, the former Airbus fleet mgr. that said we could eat, read, watch movies etc. in First Class, but not sleep. If we wanted to sleep on the 345 we had to go to the BCRC.
I always sit in FC for anything but sleeping and have only had one new purser say anything to me about it. I just told him that if it ever came up to say that I insisted as PIC. That seemed to satisfy him. This is, after all the days of termination of pursers over the rest situation. You can't blame them for being too carefull.
Regards,
330 Man
I always sit in FC for anything but sleeping and have only had one new purser say anything to me about it. I just told him that if it ever came up to say that I insisted as PIC. That seemed to satisfy him. This is, after all the days of termination of pursers over the rest situation. You can't blame them for being too carefull.
Regards,
330 Man