Qatari515

Probably true...

But do not get fooled by time to upgrade....QR and EY have exactly the same policy:

OM says 3 years in company...reality will be much longer if you join now.Goes for both QR and EY
Upgrade done on A320 in both airlines. In EY B777 FO to A330 capt is about to be stopped. As well no MFF for newly upgraded skippers!

Its a though choice if you are planning to come to the sandpit. But it is my opinion that as an FO you better stay in whatever company you came here, wait for an upgrade and than move if you want to do that.
My personal opinion: Same S..T different place....If I move I will move out of the region!

Other warning: Air Asia!

Many people thinking of joining Air Asia as a trade in for QR. My advise would be to talk to the ex Air Asia guys we have flying here.

Ask them about:

Rostering
Legalities
The CEO
Management pressure
Aircraft maintenance
4.5 G Landings
Landings in clean config at 220KIAS
ETOPS or non-ETOPS
CAT I only
money
You think algerian and libian captains are bad to fly with....How about flying with an ex Malaysian Air force jetjock?

And most important: IF, and I say IF with a reason, they give you an upgrade there, do you think any other serious company will hire you as a captain in the future?

JUST ASK THEM BEFORE YOU MAKE A MOVE. It might be worth it...

Lulu qatar

Aske same question to QR pilots :
CEO : you must fly with knife in cabin to SAA becaouse i say so
Roster : joke joke joke 7 days landing at 7 and departing same night 19h
Legality : o you are legal sir coz you flown to India which is 3 h difference
Management pressure : Capt why you didnt use discretion ? O you didnt have hat we must issue you a warning letter
Aircraft maintenance :777 in Gender at the moment
Hard Landings on 330 : AA didnt have any on 330 Qr ( more inst was demoted for that reason then promoted ) JED 9 milion $
Landing in clean config : Check Johannesburg incident o they didnt have clean config but there where 195 kts in overspeed A330 again
Money : as F/O in QA you get about 26 to 29 k when they take youre housing alowance i guess in AAA as Capt you get more and there is no higher rent then Doha remember ( Paris,London,Franfkurt more cheap then Doha )

skya320

EPR SET
1) It's not true. You will be paid basic salary QR 18,000 / month (USD 4,932) until you finish your line training.
During line training you will also get pay by the block hours *AFTER* you get rid of cover pilot. It should be like this if things hasn't change. As for housing allowance, if you choose to stay in the company provided accom., you will not get those housing allowance. Goodluck!

Qatari515

Only one comment...


Lulu, get your facts straight before spreading rubbish on this forum!

QR is not a perfect airline, and we all know it, but lying about the truth is not going to help a thing!

All I was saying is that Air Asia might not be such a good move after QR, especially if your expectations are set very high when going there. It simply is NOT better than QR....

Just for the sport...

CEO....no comment but it seems to me, talking to the Malaysian guys, that the CEO of Air Asia is quite a nutcase himself!

Rostering....just have a look at an Air Asia A320 roster. You'll be crying to have your QR one back, even on A320!

Legality....didnt they tell you in school never to believe the guys behind the desk when they tell you something is legal? Have the decency to open your OM and study chapter 7 so you know what you are dealing with. I can tell you that I never went on an illegal flight in my life, no matter what rostering says. But than again, I know my chapter 7 pretty good! Happens in all airlines!

Pressure...well, many years in this airline....never was pressured one single time to do a flight! I have been asked, thats true, but in 50% of these cases I said NO because it did not suit me and I have not heard anything of it since!

Maintenance...your 777 example just shows you have No idea what you are talking about...Maintenance is very good at QR, and thats just a fact!

HArd landings...we had quit a few, thats true. But none of them was above 2.5G and none of them resulted in a write off! In AA on the other hand....

The JHB landing...ugly story, I agree. But the aircraft never was in the same danger as the 220kias in AA one.Just have a look at my Malaysian Iarforce remark above and than ask any of the Malaysian pilots here exactly what happend, what was said in the flight deck and where the capatins background was... And QR took appropriate action against the captain, while I believe the captain in AA is still flying around in a left seat (Correct me if wrong on this one please...)

Capt pay in AA is almost the same as new FO in QR....


So please, stop the BS and inform people correctly! As said before , QR is far from being a perfect airline and it is not everybody's cup of tea but hey, keep it descent!
I understand you are frustrated about something but that does not justify lies. You are not only fooling others, you are fooling yourself as well!

Mr Ho

400 fo and 12 upgrade every year? That mean 33 year to captian? This arab math wrong yes?

ali03

Hi
Hope it was ok for you

ali03

thanks a lot for your help !

Qatari515

Your math is wrong HO, as usual! Too much Melanine in your powder milk maybe?

Three years ago --> 0 upgrades
Two years ago --> 10 upgrades
Last year --> 15 upgrades
This year --> 15 upgrades

The number is rising and will go to a minimum of 4/month --> 48/year

Substract from that the guys who fail ( yes, not everybody is suitable for command HO, remember that), the guys who dont meet the requirements etc and I would honestly say that if you join now, you can expect an upgrade in 6/7 years!

This still is good compared to the international average in major carriers.

CX --> 12 years
BA --> 17 years
AF --> 11 years
UA --> 15 years+
AA --> 15 years +

Once more...stick to the facts!

ali03

Hi
i just come from Qatar interview
it was ok for the questions but not really for the sim
i have about 3600 h on 737 and im type rated 737NG
it was A320 so you can imagine how was the sim
they said us to wait about 3 weeks
i worry about it
what do you think about it Loc?
many thanks

abel.amir

Hi all:

I do not understand why is so bad to work for Qatar Airways and you are still working there, I bet it must be horrible to work with those of you constantly complaining for a lack of a better word. *******Do yourself a big favor and QUIT*******

tbaylx

Funny that is just what GF management was saying just before a good percentage of the pilots did just that.

Lulu qatar

Qatari 515 you want to say that its better to wait 5-6 y as F/O in Doha then to go to A.A as DEC and spend this time as Capt and log 3500 PIC and earn same salary ???? Whats the point staying in QA if you can spend same time in AA with same salary and be Capt . Dont have to mention thet Malaysia is cheaper then Doha ( rent 10 times less then in Doha ,food 3 times....) and you dont live in ME in dust with Land Cruisers chase youre wife when she walk at road . A.A dont have TERMINATION department which 5 star airline like QA has on 3th floor next to imigration dep. Why rsignation/termination department ? simple answer there is more rsignations and terminations then any other airline so we need someone to send us home in 24h . Is it true or i lie again Qatari 515 ?? Qatari 515 how do you explain EU,Lationos and others F/O who run away to AA without resignation in QA ? Yea if you resign youre salary is frozen for 3 month and you are not alowed to leave Qatar ( so free and fair airline) Popay got tru intervew in Qa and went to AA,Francess left ,Jamal left,Mark left,Hardip ....... more and more all in AA are thay stupid ??Q.A is airline which you jojn and resign after 2-5 y its all becaouse misstreatment and no respect to pilots . Youre CP or DCP can be good and give you 4 days off but thats all he can do if CEO dont want to sign youre upgrade youre CP cant do anything and it happened already .Cabin crew need clereance from CEO to get married ?? Whats this man ? In AA dont think so .We have over 5 Capt and F/o who cant bring wifes into Doha coz they are ex crew and CEO dont want to give (no objection to Immigration ) is this better then AA as well ? On meeting he will tell us : i will act against you but am busy now (crew reporting Capt asking for De caffe ) remember last meeting ?Anyone can resign i have many pilots want to jojn QA this is 1 more he told us .As long as airlines go down and we have pilots on market salary will stay decreased for 30 % as inflation in 2 y is total 30 % .

Two Dogs....

Lulu I don't think even 515 actually believes half the stuff he says here. He lay with his new master when he first arrived and ever since then has been trying to put a positive spin on the horrid facts. Goat Airways is probably the worst airline in the world, avoid if possible. If they catch you try to get out asap. What else does a job hunter need to know??

Qatari515

Dogman,

wrong once more. I do believe what I am writing here and I never had or will have a master mate!

Lulu,

As I said before, QR is not perfect and we all know it! But I have been here many years and believe me, I do have other options when looking at my nationality and original licence!

I just do not believe in people who can only spread lies here, with the sole purpose of destabilising this airline.
Did you know we have a large group of posters who spread only rubbish with as a purpose seeing as many people as poissible leave or refrain from joining, so they can have the position they want or the salary they need?

I am sorry, but I dont play games like that! Thats why...STICK TO THE FACTS!

Just as an example: POPAY went to AA after he passed the interview....man, check your fact before you write something please!

Do you really want to go deeper into the details of why those guys you mentioned there by name are joining AA? If you want I will, but I am sure they will not be happy to see their stories spread out on a public forum!

You want to go there and become an i nstant HOTSHOT captain...by all means mate, GO! Try it!
Go and live in Kota kinabalu, live on 6500UDS while flying 100hrs/month

That is IF they keep their promise and actually make you a captain!

And good luck to you, IF you ever make it to your claimed 3500Hrs PIC, in finding another job. I know at least three major carriers who will NOT accept you as DEC if you did your initial upgrade at Air Asia.

But hey, I am not the one keeping you from taking that decision! GO AHEAD! Just do not come crying somewhere in the future!

I just give facts, thats all. And I learned not to believe in fairy tales anymore. Instant upgrade, cheap lifestyle,.....Nono, does not fool me!

And whats the BIG DEAL about waiting 5 years for a command anyway? Are you that old that you have to be captain right here right now? Whats the hurry?
I bet in your previous company it took much longer to get an upgrade than in QR. doesnt it?

Just remember, when you are this impatient to get what you think might be the walhalla in aviation, maybe you are not cut out of the right wood to become a commander!

All I am trying to do here is to prevent some of the nice latin american guys we have here from making a decision, which could easily turn out the biggest mistake in their carreers!
A lot of them believe AA is the paradise in aviation to go to, all I am asking is to think twice!

Talk to the guys who have been there, go and have a look yourself!

What kind of a company that takes itself seriously, does a one hour improvised interview after which they offer you an instant upgrade! You think its because they need your perfect flying skills, your unfailable decision making capabilities,....?????YEAH RIGHT? They might take you because they are in dire needs for pilots at the moment because too many Malaysians ran away as fast as they could!

What will happen once you are in is that they will start nagging about your licence ( which is not JAR OPS), your frozen ATPL etc after which they will tell you its not possible to sit on the left seat....OOps sorry....

Once more....GO AHEAD and try it!

Last post from my part on this boring subjects...the deaf dont listen and the blind dont see anyway

Smirnoff N21

Hey big fellas come on give it a break. It's totally normal that people migrate all the time to and from QR and AA back and forth. It's about philosophies and believes of what's right and what's wrong as well as self-esteem and valuation of folks concerned. QR believes F/O has to be an astronaut to be a Cpt and demands accordantly, fair enough, though practise shows in some cases the opposite let alone the performance of DEC. AA uses the current market situation and blindness of others and seeks a bargain, head hunting for experienced guys and given them THE last boost, smart move if you ask me. Again, I'd do the same and would recommend to QR to do the same. It can't be that wrong since many others do fast track upgrade or DEC for SFO. I'll take the freedom to speak for some folks who left to AA, it's definitely a better deal, alone taking into account the unreliability of QR. The only reason why so many ongoing candidates left QR is that there's no TRUST. No one believes a word said in the office. It may appear a bit implausible when it comes to F/Os but there are many Cpts. as well who made their move. QR 515 I'm sorry to disagree with you but I definitely recommend to anyone to make that move. Other than that it's pointless to try to discredit anyone's reputation or principles of conduct. Just to make you aware not every QR's F/o gets it a go in AA, they seem to be well aware of candidates past and file's cleanness and potential for command-abilities. The idea of being concerned about the individual's well-being is inappropriate in the world of practical decision making. If QR was really seeking candidates dedicating themselves to the airlines future they would offer a career path not an abuse. Regarding the licenses and other aspects no worries it's all blessed by the CAA and before you offered a job all eventualities are well teken care of. Come on 5 awards for being of THE most innovative business entity is something. Think about it.
Don't take it personally take it on the rocks!!!

It takes about 10 years to bring up a potential Cpt candidate and requires tremendous financial and time consuming investment. It takes just few vain promisses and abuses to lose it. Stuff to think about, ain't it.

A330 man

Q.A

Lulu Qatar & Pipr Rider, check this link, it will provide you with more information about the new policy of fleet transfer especially for instructors.
Cheers

http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/34...structors.html

Qatari515

OK, fair enough....

I said Id leave it at this, and so I will.

Two rethorical questions for you than N21:

1) How come you stayed many years, took the so called abuse and only left after a private dispute (nothing to do with flight ops but with HR) prooved to be impossible to solve?

2) How come that, when you left, you did NOT go to Air Asia? You had the option available to you, yet You opted to go to an outfit which, looking at the outside glitter and glamour awards you are referring to, is much less reputable, pays less and has a much more uncertain future company wise.

I am sure you must have had a very valid reason, as I hold you in high respect as you know and you are one of the smartest people I have seen around here for a long time. What intrigues me is that so many people seem to be defending a company which actually, they dont know at all!

I thought Air Asia was a good company and could even be once an alternative for myself, but after having met several pilots who flew there before and who told me the insides, I changed opinion dratstically.

It might be a good alternative if one is without a job. But I am not sure at all if it would suit as an alternative to QR.

As you said, jedem das seine = everybody decides for himself, case closed I would say. I just tried to offer some much needed perspective to the case here, as once more here in Qatar the pessimism and "grass is greener on the other side syndrome" are spreading faster than a supervirus!

For some guys it will be the right thing to do I am sure. This for sure is the case for the guys who failed their upgrades here for example. But to make this move after 6 - 12 months here, after having invested so much money plus having signed a bond....Not a good thing I would say.

But than again, who am I?

Qatari515

Too many questions....

QR is looking to buy a regional jet. They took options on the new C-series. However nobody knows if this is just a strategic move to block a production line ( a well practiced move in the middle east), to put them in the leasing company or to operate them themselves!

The end of service benefit is described in the Qatari labour law and thus is a legal requirement to be given to all skilled laborers in this country.
It is three weeks of your last basic salary, per year of service for the first 5 years. For year 6-10 it is 4 weeks, above 10 (hahaha) it becomes 5 weeks

737NG to 777 is possible and depends on company requirements

Long term .....well euhhh????

Two Dogs....

For someone without a Master you do seem rather well practiced at "chase the ball", "find the stick" and "roll over"???

Question: Why do so many people absolutely hate all things Qatari? To answer, that well Fred over there says he loves the place and therefore everyone else is lying, is a very strange argument 515?

Truthful words again from Smirnoff:

vivace

Qatari515, in response to your post above... the guys who have left so far to AA apart from one German guy,had very good reputations/clean records with QR and were heading for command in QR. From friends in training dept. they were surprised they left as they had a good history in the company. I know two of them and these guys opted for lifestyle, Malaysias an attractive place with a low cost of living.
You mention facts but yours are all way out, Im a 10000hr + capt,more than 7000 on Airbus and believe me I looked into going there as well just for the better living conditions.I researched it...salary there is around 9000USD a month, the company is a very different place now to the AA guys you talk to who left in the old days. All new aircraft, big orders and a huge force here in Asia. Many ex AA capts left to EY,EK and Europe as well as KAL etc etc.Companies dont bias baed on previous airline,they survey you in the interview,thats what its for. You dont just walk into the job either,targetting high hour experienced guys with a comprehensive sim check,high failure rate. For me it wont work as with teeenage kids who need a private IB(euro system)school,there is no education allowance so I had to cancel the plan.