Must see for EK pilots - Income protection issue
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: UAE
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Guys, it was an insurance scheme, not a savings scheme. You would only ever get anything back from your contributions if you made a claim during the time you were paying contributions. When your car insurance runs out at the end of the year you don't get anything back if you haven't claimed.
I did contribute to LIPS and (I hope) I was covered while I was doing so. Now that I'm no longer contributing (Checks into a personal bank account? Don't think so!
) I'm not covered. End of story.
I did contribute to LIPS and (I hope) I was covered while I was doing so. Now that I'm no longer contributing (Checks into a personal bank account? Don't think so!
) I'm not covered. End of story.
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Not covered...
Big Geordie, I agree with you, but at least when it comes to your car insurance, you know on beforehand when it is going to expire, so you can renew it or look for an alternative, worst case, stop driving your car...
Here, we aren't covered anymore because of non-payment, but we are still at the risk of losing a licence. Also, the change in payment came so unexpected that probably noone investigated a proper alternative.
Poor show...
MR8
Here, we aren't covered anymore because of non-payment, but we are still at the risk of losing a licence. Also, the change in payment came so unexpected that probably noone investigated a proper alternative.
Poor show...
MR8
Join Date: Jul 2005
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In actual fact I believe part of the plan of LIP's was that after a minimum amount of time as a member you can get a percentage of your contributions
back if you leave the scheme.I think it is about time AB lets us all know what the hell is happening.
back if you leave the scheme.I think it is about time AB lets us all know what the hell is happening.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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LIPS is going to die unless AB does some quick damage limitation.
It is an unreasonable request to ask people to pay a years premium into a personal account. Not through reasons of trust but because unexpected circumstances could prevent AB from accessing the funds.
Had a request been made for say 1-2 months premium paid into his account as a stop gap pending alternative and acceptable arrangements being introduced then I would have stumped up the cash.
Because I doubt that most people will pay a years premium into a personal account I will not make that payment either, because under those circumstances I expect LIPS to fail, therefore I would lose my money and not be insured anyway.
I want LIPS to be a success but action is needed now.
It is an unreasonable request to ask people to pay a years premium into a personal account. Not through reasons of trust but because unexpected circumstances could prevent AB from accessing the funds.
Had a request been made for say 1-2 months premium paid into his account as a stop gap pending alternative and acceptable arrangements being introduced then I would have stumped up the cash.
Because I doubt that most people will pay a years premium into a personal account I will not make that payment either, because under those circumstances I expect LIPS to fail, therefore I would lose my money and not be insured anyway.
I want LIPS to be a success but action is needed now.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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LIPS will probably die because people are, rightly, unwilling to send funds through the administrator's personal bank account. Even though the individual loss of a year or so of fees is not great, I don't think it's correct that the administrators be allowed to collect the entirety of the fund if it breaks down.
I would personally much rather see those funds reallocated to a group cause of some sort.
I would personally much rather see those funds reallocated to a group cause of some sort.
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Talk now of the fund being handed over to a local investment company which I don't think will give anyone much confidence either.
Simple solution for AB the way I see it.
Total contributions and any interest accrued - X months management fees = Funds to be returned or donated to a good cause.
or is not that simple?
Simple solution for AB the way I see it.
Total contributions and any interest accrued - X months management fees = Funds to be returned or donated to a good cause.
or is not that simple?
Join Date: Oct 2005
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This LIPS affair is a classic example of why 'an how pilots make such lousy business people...
... and why we're our own worst enemies as a group, because we are so naive and trusting and fundamentally stupid. I have not made another payment, nor will I do so. What a bull**** artist this guy is. Fool me once, shame on you - fool me twice shame on me... Well AB, I didn't just fall off the turnip truck...
Some guy, takes an idea... throws minimum business acumen behind it, but enjoys modest success... we the poor suckers, are payin' into the 'trust fund' in blind faith and now there ain't a word from the dude behind it all.
This is a disgrace.
Now that I think of it, if this pilot insurance stuff was such a good idea, you'd bet your sweet ass there'd be some big legitimate company out there runnin' it properly - and there ain't. That tells me it ain't viable as a legitimate business.
How much more evidence do we need? I'm outta this!
Furthermore folks, I reckon this is a bigger slight to our collective integrity than all that Capt America bull**** from a coupla years ago. I reckon there oughtta be some consequences for this dude AB. I reckon we should avoid this guy like the plague - bid to avoid, call in sick, whatever it takes. There needs to be some relevant and meaningful consequences from this swindle. It only cost me a little more 'n a years worth a premiums but that is still my hard earned money an' it don't belong in his pocket, that's for damned sure.
k-o-t-s
... and why we're our own worst enemies as a group, because we are so naive and trusting and fundamentally stupid. I have not made another payment, nor will I do so. What a bull**** artist this guy is. Fool me once, shame on you - fool me twice shame on me... Well AB, I didn't just fall off the turnip truck...
Some guy, takes an idea... throws minimum business acumen behind it, but enjoys modest success... we the poor suckers, are payin' into the 'trust fund' in blind faith and now there ain't a word from the dude behind it all.
This is a disgrace.
Now that I think of it, if this pilot insurance stuff was such a good idea, you'd bet your sweet ass there'd be some big legitimate company out there runnin' it properly - and there ain't. That tells me it ain't viable as a legitimate business.
How much more evidence do we need? I'm outta this!
Furthermore folks, I reckon this is a bigger slight to our collective integrity than all that Capt America bull**** from a coupla years ago. I reckon there oughtta be some consequences for this dude AB. I reckon we should avoid this guy like the plague - bid to avoid, call in sick, whatever it takes. There needs to be some relevant and meaningful consequences from this swindle. It only cost me a little more 'n a years worth a premiums but that is still my hard earned money an' it don't belong in his pocket, that's for damned sure.
k-o-t-s
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dubai
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Finally a reply from AB on the company email. Only 200 out of 500 have paid into his personal bank account. What does that tell you?
Can we please have our money back please!
Can we please have our money back please!
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Pathetic responses.
Supposedly professional people yet again trying to pass the blame for their own decisions onto someone else. No one was forced to join LIPS in the first place and from the slagging I have read here, you would think the individuals were on compulsory membership.
I'm real glad we don't have any degree of pilots association in EK because there is a complete lack of resolve to support it.
AB had the balls to setup LIPS and continues to work towards a satisfactory solution. The current situation is NOT an acceptable process and AB acknowledges that fact. It is precisely why he is working towards a solution.
AB - you have my support and I'm looking forward to an improved process.
Supposedly professional people yet again trying to pass the blame for their own decisions onto someone else. No one was forced to join LIPS in the first place and from the slagging I have read here, you would think the individuals were on compulsory membership.
I'm real glad we don't have any degree of pilots association in EK because there is a complete lack of resolve to support it.
AB had the balls to setup LIPS and continues to work towards a satisfactory solution. The current situation is NOT an acceptable process and AB acknowledges that fact. It is precisely why he is working towards a solution.
AB - you have my support and I'm looking forward to an improved process.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Problem is AB did not come with a proper response to the crisis. I will rejoin the schem when there is an acceptable (liable) way of paying my dues. If AB had made it clear that he would only take ONE payment and fix the problem before the next monthly payment, maybe people would have given him a cheque. 300 guys cannot be that wrong...
And he should have involved a few more peolpe than just himself...
And he should have involved a few more peolpe than just himself...
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dubai
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Does anyone have any updates? How many are still paying into Lips? How much money is in the fund? Are AB and MP still taking their directors fees? What is stopping them from paying themselves until all the funds dry up? Am I the only one that feels cheated?
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Dubai ex Brissie
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ZQN,
LIPS has been restructured utilising the services of a licenced fund manager in Dubai. They will take over all admin, collection of premiums and investment of the fund - reducing costs and increasing yield. Two new committee members have volunteered their time to assist in overseeing the fund. Both very senior and well respected management pilots.
Meanwhile about 300 members current and still no claims.
Feel free to ring me anytime to discuss. The official launch of the new LIPS will be in Jan.
Merry Xmas,
AB.
LIPS has been restructured utilising the services of a licenced fund manager in Dubai. They will take over all admin, collection of premiums and investment of the fund - reducing costs and increasing yield. Two new committee members have volunteered their time to assist in overseeing the fund. Both very senior and well respected management pilots.
Meanwhile about 300 members current and still no claims.
Feel free to ring me anytime to discuss. The official launch of the new LIPS will be in Jan.
Merry Xmas,
AB.
Last edited by cyclops camel; 12th Dec 2007 at 09:55.
Join Date: Jan 2000
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cyclops camel:
This is very good news for those of us who were uncomfortable with the current structure and had pulled out of the program.
Suggest an email on the crew portal from you outlining the new structure would be highly beneficial not only for those currently in the system but also for those who were members and pulled out and those who never were members that might now be interested.
Cheers
This is very good news for those of us who were uncomfortable with the current structure and had pulled out of the program.
Suggest an email on the crew portal from you outlining the new structure would be highly beneficial not only for those currently in the system but also for those who were members and pulled out and those who never were members that might now be interested.
Cheers
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Dear Andy
Surely you can find a better medium to communicate to the members of LIPS
than through PPRUNE? Why do you not at least have the professionalism to
send us a personal email or a letter in our boxes at work? I thought back in August you were going to have a web page up and running as well. As far as directors fees are concerned up until this point I don't see how any have been warranted. I am hoping to see a vast improvement in both the communication and accountability of this scheme, and to be presented with a written contract or proper documentation, like other reputable insurance companies provide. The sarcastic tone of your post is unwarranted.
Surely you can find a better medium to communicate to the members of LIPS
than through PPRUNE? Why do you not at least have the professionalism to
send us a personal email or a letter in our boxes at work? I thought back in August you were going to have a web page up and running as well. As far as directors fees are concerned up until this point I don't see how any have been warranted. I am hoping to see a vast improvement in both the communication and accountability of this scheme, and to be presented with a written contract or proper documentation, like other reputable insurance companies provide. The sarcastic tone of your post is unwarranted.
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Dunerider,
Details are still being finalised and an email will be sent to you very soon when all is in place.
I just wanted to stop the speculation before it got out of hand again in this forum.
AB.
Details are still being finalised and an email will be sent to you very soon when all is in place.
I just wanted to stop the speculation before it got out of hand again in this forum.
AB.
Join Date: Aug 2006
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In a previous "life" there were two options for a LIPS, one with an insurance company the union recommended and/or a local scheme run by pilots. Let's just say the union/insurance policy was terrible. They made individuals jump through incredible hoops only to be very "stingy" with payouts. The local scheme, was fantastic in all respects. So what am I saying? I will stick with the local scheme run by peers with local control. This transition I think has been good for our local scheme. Keep up the good work Andy....we want it to work.