GF Pay rise (since debunked - morphed to ID seat-priority cat-fight)
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Pay rise for Gulf!? On the contrary, they're going to take away from the pilots to give to the CEO! Ok, now for reality, I would like to know what a Captain on the A320 earns at Gulf. Who can help me?
Join Date: Jun 2001
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The chain of command applies to operating crews...when we are not operating, or deadheading for for operational reasons, and are in civvies I cannot possibly see what the "chain of command" has to do with anything...has anybody questioned this "f" class policy, or just complained about it on Pprune?? Are you a 10yr f.o. heleheleyani? Take it up with the appropriate fleet office maybe the policy will be reviewed...sure it's a bit disappointing to see "junior" csm's getting a better seat than a flight deck, but my friend leave "chain of command" out of the picture...or do you roam the streets of Manama in your uniform because "chain of command" has nothing to do when not on duty...and as far as your comment on opinions, this is what the forum is for right?? feel free to disagree...
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Yah dont think it's really fair at all...asked many times when I first joined what it was all about, but recieved the same glum answer..."not knowing"...but relax, on my leave ticket I was bumped from first as a senior CSM was seated in first....so I will put my money where my mouth is...are you able to do that, or just your feet instead?? Have a nice day children...go complain where it counts ...if you have the spine to do so
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Good morning Ironbutt,
I don't expect you to know the subtilities of leadership, but you are so wrong when you think that putting the senior flight attendant in F, while the FO flies in business does not affect the chain of command.
I'm not complaining about the J class, I love the skybeds and ID travel makes travelling on business financially palatable.
If you look into other organisations, you will not find that a Section Chief, will travel FIRST, while the Vice-President sits in business.
Our aircraft is just like a little working cell having its own CEO, VP and Supervisors. It has to have a chain of command, like it or not.
In the military, you will not see an Officer riding with 2nd Class tickets while the Sargeant is on 1st Class. They are off duty, like we are.
It's just not right and it amazes me that you, Ironbutt fiercely agree with this policy.
As for adressing the competent channels to solve the problem. There are no competent channels in Gulf Air.
Unless you voluntarily give your FIRST seat to your FO while you're travelling, all what you are saying is just a bunch of hypocrisies and empty words.
Take care,
LNB
I don't expect you to know the subtilities of leadership, but you are so wrong when you think that putting the senior flight attendant in F, while the FO flies in business does not affect the chain of command.
I'm not complaining about the J class, I love the skybeds and ID travel makes travelling on business financially palatable.
If you look into other organisations, you will not find that a Section Chief, will travel FIRST, while the Vice-President sits in business.
Our aircraft is just like a little working cell having its own CEO, VP and Supervisors. It has to have a chain of command, like it or not.
In the military, you will not see an Officer riding with 2nd Class tickets while the Sargeant is on 1st Class. They are off duty, like we are.
It's just not right and it amazes me that you, Ironbutt fiercely agree with this policy.
As for adressing the competent channels to solve the problem. There are no competent channels in Gulf Air.
Unless you voluntarily give your FIRST seat to your FO while you're travelling, all what you are saying is just a bunch of hypocrisies and empty words.
Take care,
LNB
Last edited by LDG NO BLUE; 1st Feb 2007 at 06:15. Reason: grammar
Join Date: Apr 1999
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I hate to say it boys - but personal attacts show a complete lack of professionalism. You can attack an arguement or your treatment at GF but you had better do it in a constructive way if you hope to be acknowledged and, more importantly, if you hope to have your views taken seriously and with respect.
Any moran can rant and rave. Any moron can attack the messanger and not the message.
Finally, that is exactly the attitude that does NOT make a good captain. I would expect someone in the left seat to be able to coherantly explain themselves in a manner befiting the position. ANYONE can be trained to fly an airplane. The abiliy to take a command however requires, at a bare minimum, the qualities above.
Don't expect a command if you can't at least express yourself without resorting to personal attacks.
Any moran can rant and rave. Any moron can attack the messanger and not the message.
Finally, that is exactly the attitude that does NOT make a good captain. I would expect someone in the left seat to be able to coherantly explain themselves in a manner befiting the position. ANYONE can be trained to fly an airplane. The abiliy to take a command however requires, at a bare minimum, the qualities above.
Don't expect a command if you can't at least express yourself without resorting to personal attacks.
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Although Trader`s rethoric is technically correct, it doesn`t necessarily apply to LNB`s post. Yes, it was definitely aimed at IB57`s post, but if you read it carefully, you might realize that there are more objective rather than subjective points.
LNB`s points are all valid regarding chain of command and stuff. And the best of it all:
"As for adressing the competent channels to solve the problem. There are no competent channels in Gulf Air. "
Bravo.
Trader, have you ever tried or actually got something useful out of your CP? HOFO? VPO? PCE? Well, we barely have one now! Although he will only take the helm on the April Fool`s Day... another joke perhaps?
Safe Flights
JJ
LNB`s points are all valid regarding chain of command and stuff. And the best of it all:
"As for adressing the competent channels to solve the problem. There are no competent channels in Gulf Air. "
Bravo.
Trader, have you ever tried or actually got something useful out of your CP? HOFO? VPO? PCE? Well, we barely have one now! Although he will only take the helm on the April Fool`s Day... another joke perhaps?
Safe Flights
JJ
Join Date: Apr 1999
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I was actually replying to Turtles post - which was a personal attack.
THe problems at GF are systemic. One part doesn't know what the next is doing and this can only be resolved at the very highest levels. The current HOFO and the last did their best to do what they could but I can see how their hands are tied.
IMO, any new CEO will need carte blanche from the board to completly overhaul this company. It is bloated with too many employees and corruption (just look at the favoritism even as far down as rostering). That is the ONLY way to make GF financialy viable.
But I am not holding my breath and simply fight each battle I come across one by one. I can either accept that or leave. For now I accept it - but with complaints
THe problems at GF are systemic. One part doesn't know what the next is doing and this can only be resolved at the very highest levels. The current HOFO and the last did their best to do what they could but I can see how their hands are tied.
IMO, any new CEO will need carte blanche from the board to completly overhaul this company. It is bloated with too many employees and corruption (just look at the favoritism even as far down as rostering). That is the ONLY way to make GF financialy viable.
But I am not holding my breath and simply fight each battle I come across one by one. I can either accept that or leave. For now I accept it - but with complaints
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That has certainly not been my experience on the 767, most of the expat captains are quite proffesional, least all the ones i have worked with.
Join Date: Nov 1999
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All well put Trader. I guess we'll see what flavor André Dosé brings us in the Spring and what level of backing he will have from the Board to do what is necessary. Fingers crossed.
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LNB...(likely no balls)
1) If you like the military style join the military..GF is civilian.
2) I dont seem to recall having any compunction (look it up) to the f.o.'s riding in "f"
3) I was merely espousing my approval of the CSM's chance now to do so
4) I have ridden in y class many many times while deadheading and "junior staff" f.o.'s s.o. whatever rode in y, of f...they were already there I am not chicken**** enough to make a point of it...
5) If nyone posting here nas operated as an operating crewmember with me, and feels I didnt support them in one way or another...then pass that info along to me at the time...we can all learn something..
6)If I ever have the misfortune of flying with a crybaby like LNB (likely no balls) pls speak up, you can have my seat in F class...
have a nice day children...byebye
1) If you like the military style join the military..GF is civilian.
2) I dont seem to recall having any compunction (look it up) to the f.o.'s riding in "f"
3) I was merely espousing my approval of the CSM's chance now to do so
4) I have ridden in y class many many times while deadheading and "junior staff" f.o.'s s.o. whatever rode in y, of f...they were already there I am not chicken**** enough to make a point of it...
5) If nyone posting here nas operated as an operating crewmember with me, and feels I didnt support them in one way or another...then pass that info along to me at the time...we can all learn something..
6)If I ever have the misfortune of flying with a crybaby like LNB (likely no balls) pls speak up, you can have my seat in F class...
have a nice day children...byebye
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Hi there!
Hey "Guythatstandseverythingfrombehind57" do not take it as a personal issue! You seem to be a very receptive guy but you need to learn how to accept the things that comes from the opposite side.
Speak seriously! Nobody deserves it!
Hey "Guythatstandseverythingfrombehind57" do not take it as a personal issue! You seem to be a very receptive guy but you need to learn how to accept the things that comes from the opposite side.
Speak seriously! Nobody deserves it!
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I accept the opinion..even agree with him..to a point...but I was referred to as a hypocrit...I dont percieve myself to be...when complying with a company policy...if these folks want a change it is up to GF to change the policy...if an f.o. senior wants to ask me for my f class boarding pass when travelling...i'll gladly hand it over...if they want a change in policy allowing them to obtain "f" class staff travel priviliges...then I would have no problem with a senoir to me f.o. csm whatever bumping me out of class...I have no control over it..i enjoy the "f" class privileges..many times i staff travel with my "friends" that are not entitled, i relinquish my seat up front to a random passenger and sit in y class...it's not an ego problem with me, as it seems to be with others here....case closed...see y'all later
