EK - Why bother?!
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EK - Why bother?!
I have been following all the discussions re EK on pprune over the last 3-4 months and I am starting to form a picture of an airline that is completely and utterly terrible to work for.
I have an interview with EK next month but the more I read the posts here the more I am starting to doubt my desire to even attend the interview.
I am therefore asking very politelely if there are any EK flight crew here that could tell me in an objective way why I should or shouldn't go ahead with my interview.
I am looking for some sensible answers. Not interested in comparisons with other airlines. Please include what you think is good or bad, i.e pros v cons. I will consider your replies when I make my future career choice.
Thank you.
I have an interview with EK next month but the more I read the posts here the more I am starting to doubt my desire to even attend the interview.
I am therefore asking very politelely if there are any EK flight crew here that could tell me in an objective way why I should or shouldn't go ahead with my interview.
I am looking for some sensible answers. Not interested in comparisons with other airlines. Please include what you think is good or bad, i.e pros v cons. I will consider your replies when I make my future career choice.
Thank you.
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As much as I hate how the airline has gone down the pan during the last 4 years, I still think you should come for your interview.
Its all about perspective, we all have our reasons for applying, coming, staying or leaving. If you have a good job on nice equipment, with a fairly decent future, stay where you are. If you don't, then you have nothing to loose really.
Just remember, they will be trying to sell you the nice shiny pretty, well funded company. You will only really be able to assess just how much they manipulated the truth, after you have been here about 2 years.
Good luck!
Its all about perspective, we all have our reasons for applying, coming, staying or leaving. If you have a good job on nice equipment, with a fairly decent future, stay where you are. If you don't, then you have nothing to loose really.
Just remember, they will be trying to sell you the nice shiny pretty, well funded company. You will only really be able to assess just how much they manipulated the truth, after you have been here about 2 years.
Good luck!
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Hey Bigyin:
I dont work for EK and it doesnt matter to me either way should you choose to attend your interview or not; however as you should already be aware, you will find naysayers and trashtalkers where ever you go.
If soo many people there are soo unhappy then why havent they left yet? I am certain that Ek has its flaws and that some of the griping is waranted but I take with a grain ao salt much of the crap that people talk only beacuse I know that we as pilots can be difficult to please. At the end of the day the decision should be yours!
Good luck
I dont work for EK and it doesnt matter to me either way should you choose to attend your interview or not; however as you should already be aware, you will find naysayers and trashtalkers where ever you go.
If soo many people there are soo unhappy then why havent they left yet? I am certain that Ek has its flaws and that some of the griping is waranted but I take with a grain ao salt much of the crap that people talk only beacuse I know that we as pilots can be difficult to please. At the end of the day the decision should be yours!
Good luck
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What did you say again?
wtf
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Actually, the fact that pilots are leaving emirates does not make it a bad place to be. As stated above, it indicates that it is a job with a finite time span at the moment. Most people will eventually get tired of the crap, and many long days,weeks,months and years. Most junior pilots will benifit every time a more senior pilot leaves.
There is a stage in your career when doing maximum hours on a great big shiny aircraft meens more to you than all the little things that constitute crap. Come to the gulf, enjoy it while you can, but be prepared to accept the fact that you will not enjoy everything or be here for ever.
There is a stage in your career when doing maximum hours on a great big shiny aircraft meens more to you than all the little things that constitute crap. Come to the gulf, enjoy it while you can, but be prepared to accept the fact that you will not enjoy everything or be here for ever.
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Take off your Blinkers
Hey acy RJ driver an Sonny Hammond and all the other Lurkers... you will all ways get moaners an groaners where ever you go.
HOWEVER the company has never in its history lost so many pilots as in the last 18 months.
What I find disturbing is the smoke and mirrors that goes on here with the impression that communication is a two way street when the reality is very different.
Lifestyle change (downwards) and working to the maximum legal hours possible with a huge decrease in the real world pay (what my salary here would purchase in my home country). Living expenses not being compensated for with Inflation in double figures yet annual salary increase in single figures and each year EK announce record profits...each year...Now the company have announced in the December News Letter they are in the process of applying to fly world and ground breaking ultra long haul flights in excess of the present limitation of 16 hrs...
Let me spell it out then the good times here in EK ended long time ago, think in today’s aviation world business plans change on a daily basis however what does not sit well with many guys is the way the company will twist the truth.
The biggie here and this is our Senior Manager Flt Ops A.S. going into print some years ago when there was some discontent bubbling in the ranks in a company letter explaining why it was so good to work for EK...His exact words were
This has cheesed off many F.O.s
Hey even 12 months ago we had a speech from A.S. explaining why we were working so hard apologizing all though it sounded like blaming his predecessor for the problems and promising we would not be working so hard by the end of the year because lots more pilots were being recruited....
More smoke and mirrors as in the December Company News Letter you can read that as the A380 is delayed they are slowing down on recruitment...what the F....?? So that’s another heads up that you will work your butt off here and hey I don’t mind going to work but when you have no choice but to do overtime each month it isn’t cricket any more sport....
You all so read where the company are saying with Fatigue it comes down to your fault where Rostering is the Root Problem mixing and mashing Ultra Long Haul Flights with Short Haul late night East West North South and conveniently shifting the blame on to us guys…you name it its done here with FTL’s
Lots more examples. Ask around. Still a good gig how ever not a shade on what it was to work here 5 or 6 years ago and I only see terms and conditions getting worse before they get better.
Come along to the interview just ask some relevent questions after all is said and done your just going to be flying a another plane and only you can make the decision if its the correct gig or not.
HOWEVER the company has never in its history lost so many pilots as in the last 18 months.
What I find disturbing is the smoke and mirrors that goes on here with the impression that communication is a two way street when the reality is very different.
Lifestyle change (downwards) and working to the maximum legal hours possible with a huge decrease in the real world pay (what my salary here would purchase in my home country). Living expenses not being compensated for with Inflation in double figures yet annual salary increase in single figures and each year EK announce record profits...each year...Now the company have announced in the December News Letter they are in the process of applying to fly world and ground breaking ultra long haul flights in excess of the present limitation of 16 hrs...
Let me spell it out then the good times here in EK ended long time ago, think in today’s aviation world business plans change on a daily basis however what does not sit well with many guys is the way the company will twist the truth.
The biggie here and this is our Senior Manager Flt Ops A.S. going into print some years ago when there was some discontent bubbling in the ranks in a company letter explaining why it was so good to work for EK...His exact words were
.." A snappy 3 years to command"
Hey even 12 months ago we had a speech from A.S. explaining why we were working so hard apologizing all though it sounded like blaming his predecessor for the problems and promising we would not be working so hard by the end of the year because lots more pilots were being recruited....
More smoke and mirrors as in the December Company News Letter you can read that as the A380 is delayed they are slowing down on recruitment...what the F....?? So that’s another heads up that you will work your butt off here and hey I don’t mind going to work but when you have no choice but to do overtime each month it isn’t cricket any more sport....
You all so read where the company are saying with Fatigue it comes down to your fault where Rostering is the Root Problem mixing and mashing Ultra Long Haul Flights with Short Haul late night East West North South and conveniently shifting the blame on to us guys…you name it its done here with FTL’s
Lots more examples. Ask around. Still a good gig how ever not a shade on what it was to work here 5 or 6 years ago and I only see terms and conditions getting worse before they get better.
Come along to the interview just ask some relevent questions after all is said and done your just going to be flying a another plane and only you can make the decision if its the correct gig or not.
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From the inside this place has gone from good to mediocre, not only EK to blame but the city has it's part in it. Now if from the outside the mediocre still looks good enough, don't hesitate to apply. It still doesn't look mediocre enough to many of us, so we're staying. For how long? They are finding out right now. Just scratch the surface to have a deeper look when you're here for the interview.
My main problem is that with some experience from other parts of the world I see how easy it would be to keep this place attractive. We've all been in the industry long enough to know that keeping a place attractive, to treat employees with respect and not constantly lying to them is cheaper in the middle and long run. We also know that they know and by ignoring this proven principle they insult us. We know it's deliberate and that makes it easy to despise them in turn, the main reason for discontent and disrespect around here.
In the end it's their choice to deal that way. If they think that a increasing number of resignations and a decreasing number of adequate applications is good corporate governance then so be it.
By turning up the heat the ice is only getting thinner.
My main problem is that with some experience from other parts of the world I see how easy it would be to keep this place attractive. We've all been in the industry long enough to know that keeping a place attractive, to treat employees with respect and not constantly lying to them is cheaper in the middle and long run. We also know that they know and by ignoring this proven principle they insult us. We know it's deliberate and that makes it easy to despise them in turn, the main reason for discontent and disrespect around here.
In the end it's their choice to deal that way. If they think that a increasing number of resignations and a decreasing number of adequate applications is good corporate governance then so be it.
By turning up the heat the ice is only getting thinner.
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The departees for January include one Direct Entry Captain, he's been at EK for no more than a few months, also included is a Captain upgraded in the last six months, he's been in the company around four years.
Guess they've just done their time.
In simple terms the good points about Emirates that include modern equipment, a diverse network and possible early command no longer compensate for living in a rat trap, a management team that continue to attempt and to succeed in extracting more from the crews in return for less compensation bringing me onto the salary package that diminishes in buying power by around 10% per annum due to inflation and exchange rates and revisions in the way the crews are paid.
Forgot to mention that each month the resignation list also includes one or two recently joined F/Os. Just one for January. Guess he did his time.
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Perhaps another point of view. I find the company no different than another major, large airline. I don't know what airlines all the other posters are comparing EK to, but in my experience as an airline, EK is way above average operationally. I do believe the pay is very mediocre for what we do, but that may increase to more of industry average at some point. Certainly a lot of rumors to that.
Fatigue? What a joke. Again, I don't know what everyone is complaining about. 900 hours a year, that averages 75 hours a month. I have never felt so rested flying for an airline. Leave-42 days a year. Whether you get all 42 days is another question. Several times a year you get to be in the top two bid groups. Find that somewhere else. Company provided accomodations, no worries about utilities, no worries about house bills.....
Dubai? It's not your home country probably, so take that as it is. Are there problems and frustrations-you bet. Can they be overcome-of course, again depending on your point of view. Is traffic horrible-yes.
Again, from my point of view, which is somewhat different than what you read here is that it's a big airline with incredible growing pains. Are you looking for job security, then this may be the place for you. I guess many pilots here are getting a bit homesick, and thus issues that would be put up with at their home country's airline stand out greater here.
I sure I will be vilified for saying something positive about EK, and perhaps after a few more years, I too will be fed up with some things here. But now, it is job security for a pilot, an airline that continues to expand and get new equipement, an airline that is making a profit and a chance to be a Boeing or Airbus widebody captain in 3 or 4 years.
Remember, those that are happy here will not post much here. Those that are unhappy will. It's just like the news, good things aren't reported, just the bad.
TU
Fatigue? What a joke. Again, I don't know what everyone is complaining about. 900 hours a year, that averages 75 hours a month. I have never felt so rested flying for an airline. Leave-42 days a year. Whether you get all 42 days is another question. Several times a year you get to be in the top two bid groups. Find that somewhere else. Company provided accomodations, no worries about utilities, no worries about house bills.....
Dubai? It's not your home country probably, so take that as it is. Are there problems and frustrations-you bet. Can they be overcome-of course, again depending on your point of view. Is traffic horrible-yes.
Again, from my point of view, which is somewhat different than what you read here is that it's a big airline with incredible growing pains. Are you looking for job security, then this may be the place for you. I guess many pilots here are getting a bit homesick, and thus issues that would be put up with at their home country's airline stand out greater here.
I sure I will be vilified for saying something positive about EK, and perhaps after a few more years, I too will be fed up with some things here. But now, it is job security for a pilot, an airline that continues to expand and get new equipement, an airline that is making a profit and a chance to be a Boeing or Airbus widebody captain in 3 or 4 years.
Remember, those that are happy here will not post much here. Those that are unhappy will. It's just like the news, good things aren't reported, just the bad.
TU
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Used to be very happy at Emirates, now the best I can say is that I am not unhappy. If this is extrapolated over the next few years it's reasonable to project that I will become unhappy and later on very unhappy.
As such I am now planning for a future that does not include Dubai and/or Emirates Airlines.
Nothing to do with 'doing my time'. We work in an industry were financially and professionally it is (was) preferable to stay in one place. I only wish I could do that.
As such I am now planning for a future that does not include Dubai and/or Emirates Airlines.
Nothing to do with 'doing my time'. We work in an industry were financially and professionally it is (was) preferable to stay in one place. I only wish I could do that.
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1 year = 365 days
42 days = 1.4 months holidays
12 - 1.4 = 10.6 months of work
900/10.6 = 85 hrs/month
So when you work you would potentially "feel" 85 hours if you work 900 hrs year.
But yes, 900 over the WHOLE year is 75. Just giving you a different angle.
42 days = 1.4 months holidays
12 - 1.4 = 10.6 months of work
900/10.6 = 85 hrs/month
So when you work you would potentially "feel" 85 hours if you work 900 hrs year.But yes, 900 over the WHOLE year is 75. Just giving you a different angle.
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I am an ex-EK employee, not a pilot, presently pursuing a Masters in AirTransport Management. I find this thread interesting as it deals mainly with EK. As a ex-employee, i believed EK was a nice co to work for then whole of 90s, i left EK because i suspected its potential to grow, i have been fascinated by EK's growth since leaving. In college i've had discussions with Marketing managers from Airbus who claimed EK would be the premier airline of the world and how the world would travel via DXB. I strongly believe that EK has been successfull till date wholly and solely because of the Indian sub-continent. Maurice Flanagan had identified the unfullfiled demand for a good service airline connecting the large migrant population from the ISC to mainly the west. EK has successfully filled this demand, in the abscence of viable airline from any of the 4 countries, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Srilanka. In the case of SL they have also acquired the management of the national carrier, PIA and BIMAN are now up for grabs.
However to spoil EK's party, EY and QR have the same ambition and India its cream market, now has a robust aviation industry awaiting the clearance to fly international early this year. The following report by IATA and many such avail freely, leads one to believe humbly that i was correct in my decision to leave EK. DXB has created a leasing co, the shiny jets can always be sold to the leasing co to recover the costs, however a lot of folks will be made redundant before that.
http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles.../10093144.html
Airport capacity warning
However to spoil EK's party, EY and QR have the same ambition and India its cream market, now has a robust aviation industry awaiting the clearance to fly international early this year. The following report by IATA and many such avail freely, leads one to believe humbly that i was correct in my decision to leave EK. DXB has created a leasing co, the shiny jets can always be sold to the leasing co to recover the costs, however a lot of folks will be made redundant before that.
http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles.../10093144.html
Airport capacity warning
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EKLAWYER,
The arrogance of your first paragraph just about sums up some of the bitter people on the right seat at ek.
You assume that a chap from "coconut aiways" suddenly becomes more qualified that a chap with thousands of hours say around the greek islands, just becuase hes been playing monkey see monkey do on a push button jet for three years! Those decent pilots deserving the left seat at ek and being shafted are being done a disservice by your generalisation and arrogance as it engenders a defensive response and mutual disrespect as demonstrated in my reply.
Stop bitching, Your choices your decisions.
The arrogance of your first paragraph just about sums up some of the bitter people on the right seat at ek.
You assume that a chap from "coconut aiways" suddenly becomes more qualified that a chap with thousands of hours say around the greek islands, just becuase hes been playing monkey see monkey do on a push button jet for three years! Those decent pilots deserving the left seat at ek and being shafted are being done a disservice by your generalisation and arrogance as it engenders a defensive response and mutual disrespect as demonstrated in my reply.
Stop bitching, Your choices your decisions.
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Perhaps TU you could enlighten us all as to what type of flying you are doing in these 75 hrs a month.Are you a family man or single? Are you a Capt or a F.O? Maybe you are so rested as you dont live in a construction area.Which type of airlines are you comparing EK to.Once you clarify that and probably that you have been in DXB for less than 18 mths we might listen to what you have to say.
Dick could you please re-write your last post so that it makes some sense.
Dick could you please re-write your last post so that it makes some sense.
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Perhaps TU you could enlighten us all as to what type of flying you are doing in these 75 hrs a month.Are you a family man or single? Are you a Capt or a F.O? Maybe you are so rested as you dont live in a construction area.Which type of airlines are you comparing EK to.Once you clarify that and probably that you have been in DXB for less than 18 mths we might listen to what you have to say.
Dick could you please re-write your last post so that it makes some sense.
Dick could you please re-write your last post so that it makes some sense.
I will tell you what kind of airlines I am comparing EK to. The kind where you fly six sectors a day in and out of a major hub airport and change aircraft everytime passing through the hub, where in the winter you are deicing several times a day and in the summer you are dodging TRWs all day long. I am comparing EK to airlines where you fly a four day trip, fly anywhere from 4-15 sectors, depending on the type of aircraft, getting to cheap hotels and getting a whole 8-10 hours rest all for 20 hours of flight time. And this includes duty rigs of 1:3.5 or 1:4.
No, I haven't been here quite 18 months, and perhaps my opinion will change, but right now-I haven't been on a layover for less than 24 hours, okay, maybe 22, I haven't had any major maintenance delays over one hour and have never had more than two ADDs. Compare that with airlines in the U.S., airlines in Latin and South America, and some of the European LCCs.
Is EK a dream job? Hell no, but it is a lot better than many and job security goes a long way. Staff travel could be a lot better, (unlimited free perhaps), jump seat availability, and of course better pay. But doesn't that hold true for just about every airline? But this isn't the sh*t job everyone here seems to say it is. Could there be improvements? Of course, especially in the training "arena". And I call it the arena since it seems to be adverserial. But fatigue? Please..........Maybe back off a couple of pints on layovers.
So please tell the ignorant (me) the airlines that offer an upgrade in 3-4 years to a 777, and offer better pay, and provide full housing (not an allowance) provide more than adequate health care and one doesn't have to live in a smog infested, middle of the jungle hootch. 'Cause I will be happy to find a better paying job with the job security that EK offers. I really don't want to live in Mumbai, Seoul, Hanoi, Almaty, or go through six months of ground school on an aircraft I am qualified on (ANA).
TU
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Hi Brian
Hey Tango Uniform hate to let the truth get in the way of a good story ...
Your spreading some Porky Pies with this little quote....
Fatigue on the Airbus fleet is a FACT
Pilots having Days and weeks off sactioned by the EK clinic FACT Why dont you Operate the sector DXB-SYD-CHC-SYD-DXB or DXB-MEL-AKL -MEL-DXB as Crew B and you will be extremely tired when you get back to Dubai FACT Then chuck in some short haul night flights the best one is the 4 sector DXB-Doha-DXB-Doha-DXB ( and yes we do manage to change aircraft as well...)
To make a statement as broad as
may apply to your roster however the FACTS are that EK does have Rostering Issues which have resulted for the first time here in EK guys being given a couple of weeks off by the Medical Drs FACT
You sure you are not Brians Twin Brother by any chance...
Your spreading some Porky Pies with this little quote....
Fatigue? What a joke. Again, I don't know what everyone is complaining about. 900 hours a year, that averages 75 hours a month. I have never felt so rested flying for an airline. Leave-42 days a year. Whether you get all 42 days is another question.
Pilots having Days and weeks off sactioned by the EK clinic FACT Why dont you Operate the sector DXB-SYD-CHC-SYD-DXB or DXB-MEL-AKL -MEL-DXB as Crew B and you will be extremely tired when you get back to Dubai FACT Then chuck in some short haul night flights the best one is the 4 sector DXB-Doha-DXB-Doha-DXB ( and yes we do manage to change aircraft as well...)
To make a statement as broad as
Fatigue? What a joke
You sure you are not Brians Twin Brother by any chance...
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But fatigue? Please..........Maybe back off a couple of pints on layovers.
Maybe back off a couple of pints
