GF does it again... DECs!!!
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Can someone please elaborate on this new bidding system that is in the works?
Is it an extension of AIMSS ? and when is it expected to be on-line ? Any one have any credible leads that this will happen, or is this just another rumor like the one where GF is getting a new fleet
For my two bits, i dont care what or how they implement the bidding system re seniority, just having something in place will be better that what we got now ie
Is it an extension of AIMSS ? and when is it expected to be on-line ? Any one have any credible leads that this will happen, or is this just another rumor like the one where GF is getting a new fleet
For my two bits, i dont care what or how they implement the bidding system re seniority, just having something in place will be better that what we got now ie
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Talking about getting a left seat with GF
Ask yourself this question:
- How many expat GF Captains are ex GF First Officers?
I can count only 2 on the 320, B&B! Anyone on 330/340? Don't think so, maybe some on 767...
Makes you wonder why no expat F/O stays here to get his command.
LNB
- How many expat GF Captains are ex GF First Officers?
I can count only 2 on the 320, B&B! Anyone on 330/340? Don't think so, maybe some on 767...
Makes you wonder why no expat F/O stays here to get his command.
LNB
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Hello all.
A few years ago, a large group of F/O's were told the same thing. No DEC. Seniority is strict blah blah blah. It was lies. All those FOs have long gone.
Some tried to warn the new generation not to believe or entrust your future in blatant lies. But a few the current GF expats , who immersed themselves in minor management or training roles, circumvented attempts of previous generations to warn the new- which is what Pprune is all about!
A good percentage of this minority expat group, who lambasted others on pprune trying to forewarn others, have now left aswell! Some in dubious circumstances.
So apologies we weren't steadfast in our warnings to permit proper due dilligence.
On a happier note, I now work with seven former GF FOs. Just recently one upgraded onto an A330 command, another promoted to A320 TIRE and another received perfect scores on command upgrade. Hopefully, the other four aren't far off promotion to command. We all left GF between two to two and a half years ago.
Good luck gentleman. The industry won't always boom. Don't wake up stranded and unable to afford retirement, as a GF FO with a litany of broken promises.
A few years ago, a large group of F/O's were told the same thing. No DEC. Seniority is strict blah blah blah. It was lies. All those FOs have long gone.
Some tried to warn the new generation not to believe or entrust your future in blatant lies. But a few the current GF expats , who immersed themselves in minor management or training roles, circumvented attempts of previous generations to warn the new- which is what Pprune is all about!
A good percentage of this minority expat group, who lambasted others on pprune trying to forewarn others, have now left aswell! Some in dubious circumstances.
So apologies we weren't steadfast in our warnings to permit proper due dilligence.
On a happier note, I now work with seven former GF FOs. Just recently one upgraded onto an A330 command, another promoted to A320 TIRE and another received perfect scores on command upgrade. Hopefully, the other four aren't far off promotion to command. We all left GF between two to two and a half years ago.
Good luck gentleman. The industry won't always boom. Don't wake up stranded and unable to afford retirement, as a GF FO with a litany of broken promises.
and thanks.
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As usual Bagshaw is only telling half of the story!! He and a large group of his ex Ansett cronies had not flown the 320 for over a year and came to GF with the intention of getting current and leaving. The plan was an open secret from the day they arrived and within about 10 months almost all (about 10) had gone to Dragonair or Emirates. You may believe that they were entitled to do that. The problem is GF will not allow themselves to be bitten like that again and are extra careful when recruiting Australians. The line that they left because of lack of command is total nonsense, they had no intention of staying longer than their probation period. Any Australian pilots who are thinking of coming to GF now know who to thank for the airlines lack of confidence in them!
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vfenext
Now that is a half truth. Granted, Bahrain a Godless place and there was no way I was staying. But the bulk of the family guys were happy. Especially when the VPO and CEO assured us at a meeting, seniority in force and there would never be any DEC. The same line being spun again now- and again to the next generation. But DECs still come and go! And for every DEC that comes and goes, a half dozen FOs follow. Strange way to run an airline.
I miscounted. I actually work with 10 ex-GF'ers. The majority of them ( 7 ) are Western Europeans. Are you angry at them too VFE? Some of them lasted less than six months!
To the current generationof FOs:
You are committing professional suicide in GF if they persist with DEC. You are fools to think otherwise. There are one or two serving GF FOs who, using Pprune handles, will say otherwise. But it would be foolish to think they haven't tried to follow the rest of us.
Now that is a half truth. Granted, Bahrain a Godless place and there was no way I was staying. But the bulk of the family guys were happy. Especially when the VPO and CEO assured us at a meeting, seniority in force and there would never be any DEC. The same line being spun again now- and again to the next generation. But DECs still come and go! And for every DEC that comes and goes, a half dozen FOs follow. Strange way to run an airline.
I miscounted. I actually work with 10 ex-GF'ers. The majority of them ( 7 ) are Western Europeans. Are you angry at them too VFE? Some of them lasted less than six months!
To the current generationof FOs:
You are committing professional suicide in GF if they persist with DEC. You are fools to think otherwise. There are one or two serving GF FOs who, using Pprune handles, will say otherwise. But it would be foolish to think they haven't tried to follow the rest of us.
Last edited by Bagshaw Crusher; 29th Jun 2006 at 08:39.
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Bagof****e, funny how you have had nothing to say about GF for nearly 3 years and now come up with a diatribe as if you are still here!! For your info there have been almost no DEC's since you left and the ones who have come in are on 767 which does not affect Airbus rated guys. As usual you and your mates can moan about anything and everything, you will never be happy no matter what you have. You have tarnished your countrymen's reputation here. Hope you and your 10 former GF pals are proud of that! Now go and take a long walk on a short pier into the fragrant harbour. Let the people who can do the job you couldn't do get on with it. You know SFA about GF these days so don't dare to address the current pilot group as if you are privy to information that they are not. You are an embarassment now as you were when you were here.
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Originally Posted by jackbauer
For your info there have been almost no DEC's since you left
That was quite an outburst Jack.But I'm sure prospective GF will take on board your last snippet of information. Isn't that what Pprune is for?
Have you immersed yourself on the management floor, in some minor role, as a pitiful survival attempt aswell? So how many Airbus expat command upgrades since I left?
Last edited by Bagshaw Crusher; 29th Jun 2006 at 10:21.
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We have been too busy celebrating since you left to count the upgrades!! PS My mates in Dragon tell me you are not exactly the ace of the base there either, in fact the term used was "a little sh1t stirrer" Why am I not surprised!
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Originally Posted by Bagshaw Crusher
Just recently one upgraded onto an A330 command, another promoted to A320 TIRE and another received perfect scores on command simulator upgrade.
You are a good lesson to junior GF pilots. Do any of you want to wake up one morning, having professionally peaked and with nowhere to go like vfenext?
In saying that, nobody deserves your plight, good luck scratching out your career.
Last edited by Bagshaw Crusher; 29th Jun 2006 at 15:14.
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What a sad sad individual you are Bagof****e. You left years ago and still feel so bitter and twisted that you have to snipe from the wings. What a great Capt you would make. It seems Gf had a lucky escape.
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Oh believe me I have "friends" at Dragonair" and at the mere mention of your name went off on a long list of your exploits. The thing is you don't know me at all while I on the other hand know exactly who you are. If I didn't then how do I know you are in Dragon? You make no mention of that in any of your posts! My friends said nothing about the other FO's, just you. So keep going with the bitter posts cause I am not the only one interested in your septic comments.
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Originally Posted by jackbauer
What a sad sad individual you are Bagof****e. You left years ago and still feel so bitter and twisted that you have to snipe from the wings. What a great Capt you would make. It seems Gf had a lucky escape.
What's amusing about the whole thing is, there are a few Caucasian dead beats who have professionally peaked at GF, who felt the need to slander me in a bizzarre attempt to shoot the messenger.
ia1166 was a classic example. Here was a guy- who by using his Pprune handle of which everyone knew who he was on the the management floor- would loudly lambast any GF dissent. He would simultaneously be espousing what a wonderful airline GF was. Fair enough, he enjoyed GF, but we now know that wasn't the case. ia1166 was brown nosing by whatever means, including using his very visible Pprune handle, to gain promotion out of seniority for the A340.
Here's the good part for those not aware. When he wasn't promoted out of seniority, he did a runner and disappeared overnight back into the contract world from where he spawned.
Are you and vfenext doing the same? Using well known Pprune handles on the management floor, to push your own mischevious aspirations?
A lesson for junior pilots. Despite working with some great guys from the sub-continent, Sth Africa etc. Beware of the deadbeats, who have professionally peaked. They are mercenaries in the traditional sense, their loyalties quickly change and you would be well advised not to get between them and some small professional or financial gain!
One attribute of a commander Jack, is professional courtesy. It's a foundation block on the flight deck that goes beyond good CRM- basically it's giving a stuff or having some interest in who you work with. I stand by my professional courtesy, by way of pprune, advising that seniority and DECs were broken promises at GF.
So. How many Airbus command upgrades in the last three years for expats? Surely you can extend that courtesy?
Last edited by Bagshaw Crusher; 30th Jun 2006 at 08:44.
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Originally Posted by vfenext
Oh believe me I have "friends" at Dragonair" and at the mere mention of your name went off on a long list of your exploits. The thing is you don't know me at all while I on the other hand know exactly who you are. If I didn't then how do I know you are in Dragon? You make no mention of that in any of your posts! My friends said nothing about the other FO's, just you. So keep going with the bitter posts cause I am not the only one interested in your septic comments.
I smell bullsh$$$. And if you had any 'friends' you would be taking a different line. Because any list of exploits, for myself or any of the other ex-GF'ers, would have to be nothing but positive considering the rapid promotions.
You may know who I am because of the duels I had with the turncoat friend of yours- ia1166. I know who you are because you have professionally peaked at GF, been given your pieces of silver ahead of others as reward for your antics, aswell as your history of bitterness toward Ryanair. Could only be one fellow but who cares really?
Come on vfenext. You can do better than having 'pretend friends' about the place. And despite your slagging off at Australians, it's your countrymen who are non-existant at my airline!
As a professional courtesy, how many expats have upgraded onto the Airbus as commanders in the last 3 years?
But you wouldn't care would you? As a direct entry captain yourself.
Last edited by Bagshaw Crusher; 30th Jun 2006 at 08:44.
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You again Jackbauer?
First you came to this forum to insult us and saying there was no DEC at the moment. You had been away for a while after it was proved that your 20 min at the office were obviously not enough.
Now you are back insulting BC. I have no idea of who he is but, unlike you, we should be here to share accurate information and express points of view about our jobs, not about people.
Maybe you want to change the subject from DECs in GF to BC integrity?
Why u dont want to discuss the simple fact? The simple fact is, so far, nobody could deny that EVERY take off one DEC does, results in one of our colleagues getting less money and experience. The management gives us some reasonable excuses based on conjuctural unexpected situations, I DONT BUY IT for the following reasons:
1- The temporary Greek Captains still around( very nice people by the way)
2- Management says they cannot promote FO cause they need them to fly the planes. If they are so short how am I flying 55 hr in July(330/340), few friends about 60 hr on the 767? this applies also to 330 DEFO.
3- If Training Dept. is limiting promotions, That`s Management job to boost it.
4- If Sim slots are limiting, Why so many people were doing stand in for someboby else in the short event instead of both of then doing SE together. We are using CONSTANTLY double the slots that were needed. Very inefficient.
5- I really like the AHOFO and give him personnal credit but remember A stands for acting. It means that one temporary decision he made can turn to permanent one by his successor. And I am sure the new HOFO will say that was not his/her decision. And here we go again...
Basically looks that DEC is a response for a lot of inefficiency and bad planning in diferent areas of Operations.
Now you are back insulting BC. I have no idea of who he is but, unlike you, we should be here to share accurate information and express points of view about our jobs, not about people.
Maybe you want to change the subject from DECs in GF to BC integrity?
Why u dont want to discuss the simple fact? The simple fact is, so far, nobody could deny that EVERY take off one DEC does, results in one of our colleagues getting less money and experience. The management gives us some reasonable excuses based on conjuctural unexpected situations, I DONT BUY IT for the following reasons:
1- The temporary Greek Captains still around( very nice people by the way)
2- Management says they cannot promote FO cause they need them to fly the planes. If they are so short how am I flying 55 hr in July(330/340), few friends about 60 hr on the 767? this applies also to 330 DEFO.
3- If Training Dept. is limiting promotions, That`s Management job to boost it.
4- If Sim slots are limiting, Why so many people were doing stand in for someboby else in the short event instead of both of then doing SE together. We are using CONSTANTLY double the slots that were needed. Very inefficient.
5- I really like the AHOFO and give him personnal credit but remember A stands for acting. It means that one temporary decision he made can turn to permanent one by his successor. And I am sure the new HOFO will say that was not his/her decision. And here we go again...
Basically looks that DEC is a response for a lot of inefficiency and bad planning in diferent areas of Operations.
Last edited by bird dog; 30th Jun 2006 at 13:15.
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Anyone care to rise to the challenge that Bagshaw has raised, as opposed to to lowering the tone as some have and turning this into a personal slanging match??
As the man said - How many expat FO's have been upgraded to command in the last 3 years? Simple question, might turn out to be quite enlightening
I know of 2 only, but then again I haven't been here for 3 years.
C'mon...anybody..??
As the man said - How many expat FO's have been upgraded to command in the last 3 years? Simple question, might turn out to be quite enlightening
I know of 2 only, but then again I haven't been here for 3 years.
C'mon...anybody..??
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Good morning,
Dixons,
Let me re-phrase your question:
How many expat upgrades in the last 5 years? In the last 10 years?
jackbauer,
you say:
"the ones who have come in are on 767 which does not affect Airbus rated guys"
I have no problems taking a left seat on the 767 and flying to India!
Next time try to discuss WHAT is right and not WHO is right. CRM rule number one.
Nevertheless you were right calling me stupid. I was stupid in believing that GF would respect my seniority. When they came with DEFOs, that shook my confidence, now with DECs, they took away what was left.
Training:
If training is the bottleneck in this flow, boost the capacity!
Simulator is here. Not enough trainers on 320? Well, improve the conditions, get more SFIs, TRIs, TREs. (good post bird dog).
Put new pilots on the 320 and treat them adequately!
LNB
Dixons,
Let me re-phrase your question:
How many expat upgrades in the last 5 years? In the last 10 years?
jackbauer,
you say:
"the ones who have come in are on 767 which does not affect Airbus rated guys"
I have no problems taking a left seat on the 767 and flying to India!
Next time try to discuss WHAT is right and not WHO is right. CRM rule number one.
Nevertheless you were right calling me stupid. I was stupid in believing that GF would respect my seniority. When they came with DEFOs, that shook my confidence, now with DECs, they took away what was left.
Training:
If training is the bottleneck in this flow, boost the capacity!
Simulator is here. Not enough trainers on 320? Well, improve the conditions, get more SFIs, TRIs, TREs. (good post bird dog).
Put new pilots on the 320 and treat them adequately!
LNB
Last edited by LDG NO BLUE; 1st Jul 2006 at 07:48.
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At last, a seniority case..!!
Gents,
Answering Bagshaw, there were very few expat Airbus upgrades in the last 5, 6 years. I can recall of 2. But there is a very simple explanation for that. There were NO expats in seniority to be upgraded on the Airbus fleet.
True, the upgrades completely stopped after GF072 crash in 2000. This was enough to prompt expat FOs resignations, all looking for greener pastures and faster commands. Result: lots of local guys around, specially on A330/A340 and these have been upgraded since 2004, after R.H. upgrade from within policy.
Unfortunately, DECs on B767 continued and when we tought they were over, they just start it all over again.
Hopefully the upgrades will resume after the busy summer season and this long wait (at least for me) will be soon over.
Safe Flights!
JJ
Answering Bagshaw, there were very few expat Airbus upgrades in the last 5, 6 years. I can recall of 2. But there is a very simple explanation for that. There were NO expats in seniority to be upgraded on the Airbus fleet.
True, the upgrades completely stopped after GF072 crash in 2000. This was enough to prompt expat FOs resignations, all looking for greener pastures and faster commands. Result: lots of local guys around, specially on A330/A340 and these have been upgraded since 2004, after R.H. upgrade from within policy.
Unfortunately, DECs on B767 continued and when we tought they were over, they just start it all over again.
Hopefully the upgrades will resume after the busy summer season and this long wait (at least for me) will be soon over.
Safe Flights!
JJ
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I'm only here coz a friend in sia told me that BC was slandering me again. So here goes. Please check my prevoius posts and tell me if any of them was brown nosing? I have been censored by 4HP a few times for my tirades against GF. I have never been involved in recruitment but i have been dragged kicking and screaming into training. It was when the ex-ansett guys turned up under training that i advised them to not believe that they will all get command within 2 years as they say they had been told. I advised them to keep their apps in with EK/Dragon/CP etc. Fair enough? Ok but BC let rip on PPRUNE what i said in private and caused me a lot of grief.
My departure from GF. Yes rude, and unprofessional but after years of trying to get a better financial deal (for everybody) i had had enough and had a much better deal elsewhere who wouldn't wait for my notice period. GF will and has survived without me. The Flt Ops director (whose now left so i can say this publicly) at the time said "if you don't like it you should just leave". They owed me heaps of leave so i left. I wouldn't dream of getting on Pprune to rant about myself like you did and still do.
Promotion for me? I was a captain already, what promotion did i need exactly?
Promotion for fos? yes but GF has a huge backlog of very capable local fellas. Why would they promote the expats first? BC is obviously a sky god and should be promoted to Ceo. Why should a bunch of ex ansett guys bypass the seniority list. Yes i came in as a DEC but thats me. Not you BC. I was interviewed and asked to be a DEC. What to do. Say no?
VFEnext is a friend of mine and your open attacks on him are frankly beyond belief.
I am very happy where I am and therefore have no need to attack GF or its people. You must be unhappy or as i said in my PM to you, still an FO and as we have all heard, a dodgy one at best.
Goodnight and goodluck, and if i could get away with it go forward and multiply but to be honest, the less of you in our community the better.
My departure from GF. Yes rude, and unprofessional but after years of trying to get a better financial deal (for everybody) i had had enough and had a much better deal elsewhere who wouldn't wait for my notice period. GF will and has survived without me. The Flt Ops director (whose now left so i can say this publicly) at the time said "if you don't like it you should just leave". They owed me heaps of leave so i left. I wouldn't dream of getting on Pprune to rant about myself like you did and still do.
Promotion for me? I was a captain already, what promotion did i need exactly?
Promotion for fos? yes but GF has a huge backlog of very capable local fellas. Why would they promote the expats first? BC is obviously a sky god and should be promoted to Ceo. Why should a bunch of ex ansett guys bypass the seniority list. Yes i came in as a DEC but thats me. Not you BC. I was interviewed and asked to be a DEC. What to do. Say no?
VFEnext is a friend of mine and your open attacks on him are frankly beyond belief.
I am very happy where I am and therefore have no need to attack GF or its people. You must be unhappy or as i said in my PM to you, still an FO and as we have all heard, a dodgy one at best.
Goodnight and goodluck, and if i could get away with it go forward and multiply but to be honest, the less of you in our community the better.
Last edited by ia1166; 4th Jul 2006 at 00:13.