New Policies at EK (The Green Dot Thread)
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Hi GB, I do sympathise with your assertions, I was fortunate to cut my jet teeth in the London TMA so CDA's were hammered into my particularly dense skull, I think someone made a very valid point that CDA's are "not EK" until recently. I remember a particularly pointless article in the Outer Marker (remember that?) on CDA's which spent three pages reproducing the UK AIP and then finished with...."this is not current EK policy" or some such. I just disagree with the RHS focus.
Regards
TOD
Regards
TOD
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At 6am on my way back from some far flung place I am more than happy to comply with SOP and get the speed back.
If CDAs are required then, of course, try and comply. Most of these destinations are day flights or long enough to get some sleep on the a/c.
If I have to fly level and burn a ''little'' extra fuel then so be it.
It's a damn site cheaper than a go-around and my brain may be able to stay in the vicinity of the aircraft, not 5 miles behind.
Anyone who wants to show me how clever he is by not using the speedbrake on the A330 at 6am will not impress me
Happy landings
If CDAs are required then, of course, try and comply. Most of these destinations are day flights or long enough to get some sleep on the a/c.
If I have to fly level and burn a ''little'' extra fuel then so be it.
It's a damn site cheaper than a go-around and my brain may be able to stay in the vicinity of the aircraft, not 5 miles behind.
Anyone who wants to show me how clever he is by not using the speedbrake on the A330 at 6am will not impress me
Happy landings
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How about you let the guy in the right seat fly the way he feels comfortable....or just do it yourself. I beleive he already has an ATPL and obviously has the required amount of hours to be hired at EK....oh, and is checked every 6 months and a line check.
Or perhaps they should pair you with another Captain so you can go about and stroke each others egos....cause you guys never make mistakes.
Or perhaps they should pair you with another Captain so you can go about and stroke each others egos....cause you guys never make mistakes.
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An ATPL clearly does not qualify one to be a competent aviator. It is not a Captain's job to "let the guy in the right seat fly the way he feels comfortable".
Last edited by grumpy_bugger; 15th Jun 2006 at 04:22.
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Nor does being in the left seat make you competent. Just cause you managed to get through the hurdle of being a captain at EK does not make you god's gift to aviation. There is someone beside you who is second in command and is a "captain in training" for one day he will be in your seat. CRM my friend and respect is what this airline lacks....it is all BS. We talk about the big picture and using all your resources and the best resource is sitting next to you and in the cabin as well...that is what makes a good captain...but a majority of you think it is a very lonely seat there on the left side. Hypocrisy at its best. But you are right in that sense cause anything we do the company fires you. So maybe it is the company culture that stinks and FO's will always be treated like ****. Its all a learning curve in aviation and everyday we are learning....maybe crew sched should roster you on your own sonny.
Last edited by readytocopy; 14th Jun 2006 at 18:39.
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Having been in the left seat for nearly 20 yrs military and civil I have come to a number of conclusions:
1 Nobody tries to fly a bad approach/descent./departure /etc
2 Bollocking someone for trying their best achieves nothing apart from having a one way conversation.
3 Everyone learns from their mistakes, ergo, if it is not going to endanger the aircraft or go outside your own abilities let the mistake happen and talk it through on the ground. ( thats why trainers get paid more coz they get sh#t scared most days!)
4 Nobody stops learning in this game. If you think you have ground yourself before you kill someone.
5 Even the newest cadet has a right to their opinion and to air said.
6 CRM is a new exciting way of discribing Airmanship and good manners.
7 You dont have to tell anyone that you are in charge and the final decision belongs to you .. they know.
8 The days you stop loving what you are doing in the aircraft stop and become a gardener coz it's not a place to be unhappy.
Right I am now taking off my pompous hat and getting a cold one from the fridge. Thank you for your time and good night.
Alwayzz
1 Nobody tries to fly a bad approach/descent./departure /etc
2 Bollocking someone for trying their best achieves nothing apart from having a one way conversation.
3 Everyone learns from their mistakes, ergo, if it is not going to endanger the aircraft or go outside your own abilities let the mistake happen and talk it through on the ground. ( thats why trainers get paid more coz they get sh#t scared most days!)
4 Nobody stops learning in this game. If you think you have ground yourself before you kill someone.
5 Even the newest cadet has a right to their opinion and to air said.
6 CRM is a new exciting way of discribing Airmanship and good manners.
7 You dont have to tell anyone that you are in charge and the final decision belongs to you .. they know.
8 The days you stop loving what you are doing in the aircraft stop and become a gardener coz it's not a place to be unhappy.
Right I am now taking off my pompous hat and getting a cold one from the fridge. Thank you for your time and good night.
Alwayzz
Geez Broke, seems a few well qualified people more or less agree with my dubious opinions.
Just wish I could express it half as well as Alwayz just did.
Ace post
Just wish I could express it half as well as Alwayz just did.
Ace post
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Grumpy You have issues mate
From your first post I can only conclude that you are talking about cadets...because I am in the right hand seat on AB fleet and I may hit the odd light taxying but so do you ....idiot!!!!
and.......... as for the rest of it .......if you havent taken the time to pass on infomation from that massive experience bank you call hours ,,,,,and given a guy something useful to enhance his ignorance then you are the ignorant one.
Flaps one is not flaps one........... is slats only, on the approach
........flying below green dot clean, close to the ground..while reducing any margin for error with my family on board is neglegent.......so what if you can do it....I know its ok to do it .....but give me one good reason to do it in the first place.......
mmmmmmmmm.......oooh I have one.........how about ...
WHEN YOU FLY FREIGHT
Grumpy you need to pack it in.....i hope to fly with you soon so I can tell you to get a life....!
TR
From your first post I can only conclude that you are talking about cadets...because I am in the right hand seat on AB fleet and I may hit the odd light taxying but so do you ....idiot!!!!
and.......... as for the rest of it .......if you havent taken the time to pass on infomation from that massive experience bank you call hours ,,,,,and given a guy something useful to enhance his ignorance then you are the ignorant one.
Flaps one is not flaps one........... is slats only, on the approach
........flying below green dot clean, close to the ground..while reducing any margin for error with my family on board is neglegent.......so what if you can do it....I know its ok to do it .....but give me one good reason to do it in the first place....... mmmmmmmmm.......oooh I have one.........how about ...WHEN YOU FLY FREIGHT
Grumpy you need to pack it in.....i hope to fly with you soon so I can tell you to get a life....!
TR
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Why do U complain ? If you're not happy, why don't U leave somewhere else u won't find such low skilled pilots ? Does EK belongs to U ? If not, just try to improve things in a smart way, otherwise, just give it up.
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The DEC course must be pretty cruisey if the lads have time for posting tips about Manhood on pprune.....
Brian, is that you??
From the sound of the airmanship "advice" posted here, this cripple obviously needs a pair of FOs (extra crew) to keep him from rolling into the drink if left unsupervised, ala GF.
Mr Grumpy, please post a sample of your wonderful cabin crew briefing style... tell us how you charm the girls!!
Guys this tragic thread is another management ploy (Brian's first mission) to keep the lads from whinging about shaftings.
Brian, is that you??
From the sound of the airmanship "advice" posted here, this cripple obviously needs a pair of FOs (extra crew) to keep him from rolling into the drink if left unsupervised, ala GF.
Mr Grumpy, please post a sample of your wonderful cabin crew briefing style... tell us how you charm the girls!!
Guys this tragic thread is another management ploy (Brian's first mission) to keep the lads from whinging about shaftings.
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GREEN DOT SPEED (AIRBUS)
........flying below green dot clean, close to the ground..while reducing any margin for error with my family on board is negligent.
Go look in your Airbus Bible Volume 3 at the definition of GD speed. Damn EVERY time you take off and select Flap 0 guess what... you're BELOW GREEN DOT SPEED!
Do you consider that "NEGLIGENT"? No of course not, otherwise you would fly Flap 1 until a ball-hair below 20 000' (high enough for your family) and then clean it up, but that would just be plain STUPID.
so what if you can do it....I know its ok to do it .....but give me one good reason to do it in the first place.....
If you need to do it - just do it. 
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If after a long day you are so focused on a perfect profile,hope you leave a little somthing to handle a non normal situation.Mostly ,I prefer a small level segment prior to commencing the final segment.
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Maybe i'm getting too old for that already.....
For all those who had the privilege to fly former generation aircraft it is absolutely
clear that flying below GD is stupid. Actually it's more or less a funny Airbus name for
clean speed. I know Airbus proves it to be possible, just as to stall a plane that supposedly
does not allow stall.
In the days with manual throttles we flew 1.5vs as clean speed. As the AT's and their protection modes
took over, this margin was reduced to 1.3vs. However this all applied for cruise and approach. On take-off
there has always been the 1.2vs because thrust (or power) was fixed on CLB or
MCT or equivalent. So comparing flying below GD on climbout (V2 speeds) with below GD in descent/approach (Vcl speeds),
with partial power or idle, shows little airmanship or aerodynamical knowledge. Airbus can give their
speeds any weird names, it all comes down to vs. Because even a Airbus can stall, it's only more or less
well protected against it with its allowed envelope.
There is very little reason to fly too close to min speed, you trade margin and pax comfort (att)
for just a little show off of knowledge of AOM's but lack of airmenship.
For all those who had the privilege to fly former generation aircraft it is absolutely
clear that flying below GD is stupid. Actually it's more or less a funny Airbus name for
clean speed. I know Airbus proves it to be possible, just as to stall a plane that supposedly
does not allow stall.
In the days with manual throttles we flew 1.5vs as clean speed. As the AT's and their protection modes
took over, this margin was reduced to 1.3vs. However this all applied for cruise and approach. On take-off
there has always been the 1.2vs because thrust (or power) was fixed on CLB or
MCT or equivalent. So comparing flying below GD on climbout (V2 speeds) with below GD in descent/approach (Vcl speeds),
with partial power or idle, shows little airmanship or aerodynamical knowledge. Airbus can give their
speeds any weird names, it all comes down to vs. Because even a Airbus can stall, it's only more or less
well protected against it with its allowed envelope.
There is very little reason to fly too close to min speed, you trade margin and pax comfort (att)
for just a little show off of knowledge of AOM's but lack of airmenship.
Last edited by chinawladi; 25th Jun 2006 at 08:16.