EK Profit Share
Sorry 330, I meant was IXNAT Mr Ed.
Don
Don
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Regarding DEC's from the U.S.; I find it interesting that there is the general feeling that only those with a pension to supplement their earnings here or those without schoolage children would find the EK package acceptable. That pretty well sums up the value of the EK package as a whole - not good enough for someone who may actually have to live off it.
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I very much doubt the company gives a rip about what I think as they have not asked my opinion in the matter. Do you know anyone on the line here that the company has sought out their opinion? Have they asked yours?
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INAX writes"I believe you may be very mistaken. There are probably close to 1000 early retired wide-body captains at Delta that have retired in the last 18 months"
The number that have taken early retirement in the last 18 months and are UNDER 56 YEARS OLD is around 150 total give or take a few. (The max age for entry as a D.E.C. is 55 at EK) Of those, I very much doubt more than 5 or 10 would make the move here. This is just my opinion. Under the current bankruptcy laws in the states, when a company is operating under chapter 11 protection, the retirement assets are frozen and can only be released if the judge overseeing said bankruptcy approves. I doubt very much any judge will allow pensions to be paid out until an agreement has been reached between DL and its pilots or the company emerges from chapter 11. ( or the judge could allow DL to cancel its working agreement) As a result, I think guys would be reluctant to leave until they know what is going to happen to the DL pension. This being the case, I doubt the package here--even an "enhanced" one as is rumoured--would cause guys to leave the majors in the states en mass. I think our recruitment department has their work cut out for them.
Good luck to us all.
330
P.S. This thread was orginally about profit share--sorry to deflect its intent to this degree. ( I'm counting on at least 16 weeks----it'll take at least that to pay off my credit card debt.)[/quote]
Again, let me correct you. Over the last two years close to 1000 Delta wide body captains HAVE retired. Many if not most are under 56. They were able to obtain their lump sums but now much of their monthly annuities are at risk. There are already about a dozen at SIA, some at Icelandic (Air Atlanta) some at MaxJet some at EOS. Even some awaiting slots at RyanAir. So when you state they are not out there, you are mistaken. The only difference I see flying for EK (what is posted here) and flying for the legacies international is living in Dubai. Most if not all of the int'l pilots I have known have flown close to 900 hours-so that's not an issue, many are former military that have spent years in places outside of the states-not an issue, most have flown all over into different time zones (with no controled rest)-not an issue, most have dealt with a management that could give a rat's a** about the same issues brought up here-not an issue. So again, please tell me why you believe there will not be an influx of DECs from DAL, UAL, NWA, Gemini, Polar, Atlas, Tradewinds? It will be interesting to see the numbers in attendance in Atl with the open house. If anyone is interested I will be able to find out.
IXNAT
No this is not Mr. Ed, but I do know him, I believe.
The number that have taken early retirement in the last 18 months and are UNDER 56 YEARS OLD is around 150 total give or take a few. (The max age for entry as a D.E.C. is 55 at EK) Of those, I very much doubt more than 5 or 10 would make the move here. This is just my opinion. Under the current bankruptcy laws in the states, when a company is operating under chapter 11 protection, the retirement assets are frozen and can only be released if the judge overseeing said bankruptcy approves. I doubt very much any judge will allow pensions to be paid out until an agreement has been reached between DL and its pilots or the company emerges from chapter 11. ( or the judge could allow DL to cancel its working agreement) As a result, I think guys would be reluctant to leave until they know what is going to happen to the DL pension. This being the case, I doubt the package here--even an "enhanced" one as is rumoured--would cause guys to leave the majors in the states en mass. I think our recruitment department has their work cut out for them.
Good luck to us all.
330
P.S. This thread was orginally about profit share--sorry to deflect its intent to this degree. ( I'm counting on at least 16 weeks----it'll take at least that to pay off my credit card debt.)[/quote]
Again, let me correct you. Over the last two years close to 1000 Delta wide body captains HAVE retired. Many if not most are under 56. They were able to obtain their lump sums but now much of their monthly annuities are at risk. There are already about a dozen at SIA, some at Icelandic (Air Atlanta) some at MaxJet some at EOS. Even some awaiting slots at RyanAir. So when you state they are not out there, you are mistaken. The only difference I see flying for EK (what is posted here) and flying for the legacies international is living in Dubai. Most if not all of the int'l pilots I have known have flown close to 900 hours-so that's not an issue, many are former military that have spent years in places outside of the states-not an issue, most have flown all over into different time zones (with no controled rest)-not an issue, most have dealt with a management that could give a rat's a** about the same issues brought up here-not an issue. So again, please tell me why you believe there will not be an influx of DECs from DAL, UAL, NWA, Gemini, Polar, Atlas, Tradewinds? It will be interesting to see the numbers in attendance in Atl with the open house. If anyone is interested I will be able to find out.
IXNAT
No this is not Mr. Ed, but I do know him, I believe.
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Originally Posted by IXNAT
Again, let me correct you. Over the last two years close to 1000 Delta wide body captains HAVE retired. Many if not most are under 56. They were able to obtain their lump sums but now much of their monthly annuities are at risk. There are already about a dozen at SIA, some at Icelandic (Air Atlanta) some at MaxJet some at EOS. Even some awaiting slots at RyanAir. So when you state they are not out there, you are mistaken. The only difference I see flying for EK (what is posted here) and flying for the legacies international is living in Dubai. Most if not all of the int'l pilots I have known have flown close to 900 hours-so that's not an issue, many are former military that have spent years in places outside of the states-not an issue, most have flown all over into different time zones (with no controled rest)-not an issue, most have dealt with a management that could give a rat's a** about the same issues brought up here-not an issue. So again, please tell me why you believe there will not be an influx of DECs from DAL, UAL, NWA, Gemini, Polar, Atlas, Tradewinds? It will be interesting to see the numbers in attendance in Atl with the open house. If anyone is interested I will be able to find out.
IXNAT
No this is not Mr. Ed, but I do know him, I believe.
IXNAT
No this is not Mr. Ed, but I do know him, I believe.
Well, let me jump into this fray and correct you. Delta and Northwest pilots are not the leaders of the American expat pilot bandwagon. They are in fact, the Johnny come latelys. Prior to DAL and NWA having trouble it was USAirways and United along with a few others. USAirways has/had 2000 pilots on furlough, United a similar number. Both airlines have pilots who lost their pensions and saw huge decreases in their salary. Many AA pilots also went out early in order to keep their lump sum. This all since 9-11. In that time we have a grand total of 48 Americans at EK. One was here prior to 9-11, one came when his job at Sri Lankan ( airplanes ) were literally shot to pieces. The other 46 are refugees from the U.S. airline industry. With over 10,000 pilots on furlough that number represents less than one-half of one percent. If we apply that ratio to your 1000 early retired DAL pilots we come up with a grand total of 5. Even if it is double the average since 9-11 that is only 10. My personal estimate from this recruiting trip is about 20 to 30, including F.O.s.
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IXNAT.
I would very much like to see the figures you are getting your info from on the Delta pilot retirees. If your figures are correct then I am very much mistaken and I stand corrected. I've been told (and have not taken the time to verify) by several DL pilots that the majority of early wide-body retirements were guys within 5 years of normal retirement. I shall look into this a little more closely!
You mention that a number of these retirees are working for SIA, Icelandic, EOS ( how many airplanes do they have) etc. Others are waiting to work for RyanAir. How many pilots are you talking here? 15-20-30 out of 1000 or so.(of which a percentage are too old to qualify for entry to EK) I've yet to see 1 DL retiree here in the middle east as a D.E.C. ( 2 DL guys are at EK as F/Os with 1 more joining in May, again as an F/O, none of whom are retirees). Where are all the other retired U.S pilots that were with US Air, U.A.L., A.T.A., Hawaiian American? They don't seem to be clamouring to get here. Quite a number of those guys have lost the bulk of their retirements and were under 50 years of age. Singapore, the UK, Europe, Asia are all perceived in the U.S. in a much different light than the middle east. Americans think that this a very negative place to be right now. I just don't think that EK will get a large influx of U.S. major airline pilots as D.E.Cs. ( unless they are paid much more than the website suggests and AS has said that this is just not the case
)
This is not meant to be a battle with you over numbers. It is just one man's opinion (and we we all know what they say about opinions). You say you have no dog in this fight. Well I do and I stand by my assertion that I cannot condone the hiring of D.E.Cs at EK at this juncture and under the current set of circumstances. There are too many qualified F/Os already here who are a known entity and could easily upgrade. Let's sit at the pub some evening. I'll buy you a pint and we can discuss our different opinions
(unless you are coming here as a D.E.C)
330
P.S. Still waiting on that 16 week check!!!
I would very much like to see the figures you are getting your info from on the Delta pilot retirees. If your figures are correct then I am very much mistaken and I stand corrected. I've been told (and have not taken the time to verify) by several DL pilots that the majority of early wide-body retirements were guys within 5 years of normal retirement. I shall look into this a little more closely!
You mention that a number of these retirees are working for SIA, Icelandic, EOS ( how many airplanes do they have) etc. Others are waiting to work for RyanAir. How many pilots are you talking here? 15-20-30 out of 1000 or so.(of which a percentage are too old to qualify for entry to EK) I've yet to see 1 DL retiree here in the middle east as a D.E.C. ( 2 DL guys are at EK as F/Os with 1 more joining in May, again as an F/O, none of whom are retirees). Where are all the other retired U.S pilots that were with US Air, U.A.L., A.T.A., Hawaiian American? They don't seem to be clamouring to get here. Quite a number of those guys have lost the bulk of their retirements and were under 50 years of age. Singapore, the UK, Europe, Asia are all perceived in the U.S. in a much different light than the middle east. Americans think that this a very negative place to be right now. I just don't think that EK will get a large influx of U.S. major airline pilots as D.E.Cs. ( unless they are paid much more than the website suggests and AS has said that this is just not the case
)This is not meant to be a battle with you over numbers. It is just one man's opinion (and we we all know what they say about opinions). You say you have no dog in this fight. Well I do and I stand by my assertion that I cannot condone the hiring of D.E.Cs at EK at this juncture and under the current set of circumstances. There are too many qualified F/Os already here who are a known entity and could easily upgrade. Let's sit at the pub some evening. I'll buy you a pint and we can discuss our different opinions
(unless you are coming here as a D.E.C) 330
P.S. Still waiting on that 16 week check!!!
Last edited by 330 heavy; 21st Mar 2006 at 17:46.
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Pilots coming over
It is hard to say how many pilots will leave Delta. I am one that is leaving, not as a DEC though. Just a narrow body F.O.. I have had a number of pilots ask me about EK and they are thinking about jumping ship. I haven't heard how the job fair went, when I do I will let you know. The opinions expressed in from both stand points of an influx coming or a trickle are correct. It will be a coin flip for most and no one knows which way they will go.
What separates Delta from the other carriers, was the retirement plan was different. I don't think any of the other carriers in the last few years has had the early retirements we have had.
Fraternally,
calcio11
What separates Delta from the other carriers, was the retirement plan was different. I don't think any of the other carriers in the last few years has had the early retirements we have had.
Fraternally,
calcio11
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[quote=330 heavy]IXNAT.
I would very much like to see the figures you are getting your info from on the Delta pilot retirees. If your figures are correct then I am very much mistaken and I stand corrected. I've been told (and have not taken the time to verify) by several DL pilots that the majority of early wide-body retirements were guys within 5 years of normal retirement. I shall look into this a little more closely!
Sorry it has been a few days to respond to the above-on the road. You are correct, my numbers were incorrect concerning the Delta pilots. It was actually closer to 2000 retired early from late 2004. My friend did attend the Atlanta EK "job fair". He mentioned that it seemed there were about a total of 100-120 in attendance and a number that had set up sim evals prior. So will there be an influx of these Delta early retirees? My friend could not get into the simulator in the three days they were there due to the fact that they were all full up. So there you go, there seems to be quite a bit of interest if nothinig else. Oh yes, he mentioned that there were a few individuals from Canada and Northwest doing the evaluation. Hope this has been helpful.
IXNAT
I would very much like to see the figures you are getting your info from on the Delta pilot retirees. If your figures are correct then I am very much mistaken and I stand corrected. I've been told (and have not taken the time to verify) by several DL pilots that the majority of early wide-body retirements were guys within 5 years of normal retirement. I shall look into this a little more closely!
Sorry it has been a few days to respond to the above-on the road. You are correct, my numbers were incorrect concerning the Delta pilots. It was actually closer to 2000 retired early from late 2004. My friend did attend the Atlanta EK "job fair". He mentioned that it seemed there were about a total of 100-120 in attendance and a number that had set up sim evals prior. So will there be an influx of these Delta early retirees? My friend could not get into the simulator in the three days they were there due to the fact that they were all full up. So there you go, there seems to be quite a bit of interest if nothinig else. Oh yes, he mentioned that there were a few individuals from Canada and Northwest doing the evaluation. Hope this has been helpful.
IXNAT
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Last year was "4 weeks". The target is the same and profit is up by ...... a lot, so anything less would be a huge dissapointment.
Standing by to be dissapointed..... again....
Standing by to be dissapointed..... again....
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2 weeks only dont forget the rising cost of accommodation as well as fuel.
If Ek had a brain they would build there own city and save long term , but its easier to rip off the ex-loyal workforce.
If Ek had a brain they would build there own city and save long term , but its easier to rip off the ex-loyal workforce.
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15 weeks profit share, 50% pay rise and 200k housing allowance. 60hrs/month and a guaranteed 100 days leave per year.
My dad always told me to look for the golf ball where I wanted to find it first. Sadly I am about to play 3 off the tee again.
Cerberus
My dad always told me to look for the golf ball where I wanted to find it first. Sadly I am about to play 3 off the tee again.
Cerberus
