legalize

Does any one know the pay scale for Dispatch and operations within Air Arabia?

320AETOS

Hi all

Does anyone have any info on what the captain interview is like?

THX

A320PLT

Thanks WW. I have known Big Lou oh check that "little Lou" for several years. In fact the last time I saw him which seems like now only at OBAP conventions he did look much smaller.

I have been invited to an interview there at Air Arabia and was planning AUG but may do it sooner than that. If you get the chance drop me a pvt message as I have a couple of questions for you.

Thanks

A320PLT

skmarz

One quick question, is there a bond? If so, how much?

Second question, for those who are willing to respond......EK or Air Arabia? Or did I just ask a ridiculous question?

Sorry if I did, still new to researching the Middle East Airlines and I have a lot to learn......


Thanks

wanax

WW et al -

What constitutes "currently on the A320"? Am a current TR 320 puke but may be embarking on a brief ME military tour of duty. If I'm outa cockpit for a bit...show stopper?

Also, must one relinquish one's seniority number from US Deathstar airlines upon date of hire? Just keeping my options open .

Great gouge here. Thanks for showing the love.

KRUGERFLAP

Dear felow pilots of Air Arabia,


Do you know how many acft will be leased before the order of the 49 Airbus(Dubai air Show 2007) starts to arrives in 2012?

I saw this old news bellow and i´d like to know if it´s a good idea for senior fo in the region type rated in the a320 but current flying the A330 to go to Air Arabia.

"Because Air Arabia will take delivery of the aircraft starting in 2012, meaning it will have to lease an average of four additional aircraft until it receives the new planes. " Gulf news - nov 2007


As far as i know they got 1 or two a320 from Vueling,so only two/three more until 2012,is that right?,If so i think the upgrades will slow down until mid 2011,please prove me wrong,i had enough of long haull and i need a change for the left seat faster than in my present employer who just change the rules and no more uogrades on the same fleet,so i have to move to A320 when my time comes,so i prefer to join Air Arabia,because i think the TTU is lower

Thank You,

KF

Spoogie

KF

sounds like u wanna leave ABU DHABI to go to Sharjah?

320windrider

krugerflap , AA bought 3 planes from vueling and 1 is on lease and still at least 2 more aircrafts to be deliverd from TLS this year , untill the deliverys begin in 2012 , AA will recieve minimum 3 to 4 aircrafts per year if not more , so dont worry about being upgraded.. there will be pleanty of planes to fly ...

320 star

the last Vueling A/C came with 13 F/Os (Spanish+ French)so i guess no more F/Os until Sep, but they are still short of Captains which means fast track upgrade to accommodate the 4 to 6 A/C growth/year

KRUGERFLAP

Thanks for the insight!

C ya

W Weasel

Hey Oosik:

No sweat about the log books. As a retired Capt that is not a problem. You have to remember this part of the world is British:-( You have to “renew your instrument rating” under that British lock-step and you need to have your log book “signed.” Yea all that JAA crap! You know, 100 years of tradition unaffected by progress!

Well not to worry. Signing logbooks, like a 200 hour student pilot is truly insulting; but the British system seems to feel that it is “quite cheerie old boy.” So here is what you do. Contact you former CP (if he is still around.) If not get a fleet manager, director of operations or VP of Flight to sign your timesheets; you probably are friends with them or at least senior and they are happy to have you retire:-) Your sheets will have all the necessary info and you will only have to separate block time from pay time.

If that fails, bring any data showing you are retired and how many years you flew as a pilot. The world knows a pilot for a major US carrier averages about 400-600 block hours a year (not pay but block.) If you flew 25-30 years – well you do the math but suffice it to say you have a solid 5 figures of flight time.

You can bring your military log books and do a simple 1.15 conversion which most companies feel is fine. Bring a copy of your DD-214s as well and that will be sufficient.

Now for Airbus procedures – they are really funny. Most of the airlines over here are extremely different from what you are use to. They do not develop training the way you know it. As a result, they use manufacturer’s documents. FCOMS are a compilation of a ton of different books. Unlike in the USA where everything you need to know is in one volume, you may have to look in 4-5 books for data on one system. Then you still don’t know if you have everything. Also manufacturers write books as manufacturers, not airlines. They are written by lawyers for liability purposes and as such they are written intentionally vague and disjointed. Very disturbing for people who worked for major western airlines!

Having said that, a lot of the procedures used in training (chapter 18) of your pilot handbook (aka aircraft manual) are probably very similar to Airbus SOPs. Come on how many different ways can you do an engine failure? How many different ways can you read and do an ECAM memo? Aviate, navigate, and communicate works using any procedures on any plane; so just fly the plane and you’ll do fine!

To answer your question about giving it a shot, here is my opinion. JUST FLY THE PLANE! You will get a sim ride and who in the world cares what you say (throttle, thrust lever, power levers, go poles or motor sticks) just push them when you want to go and pull them back when you want to stop.

While what is called system knowledge will be an integral part, the ultimate need is for excellent pilots. Guys like you, who have experience that can not come out of a book. Guys who can fly the airplane: do that and you may do quite well.

Just remember, whether it is in the Gulf, India, or Asia, this is what they use. Even smaller airlines in Europe use the same thing so if you want to give it a shot anywhere then this part of the world is probably the best for you.

Good luck,

Burners and Out

W Weasel

Hey 320 Windrider:

Not to be argumentative, but I think your info is a little misleading to be fair. Osama (Quality Assurance), Mohammad Qassimi (delivery) and Ibrahim Mohammad (Engineering) have verified that no further planes were coming from TLS this year. One option is coming in late September and there may be another option to receive one from an airline that MAY not take delivery, but the second one is not our plane yet.

The 3-4 planes a year until 2012 is also pure conjecture. There is nothing on the books to suggest this.

Now having said that, in my 4 years here, nothing goes by the books. In 2004 we were supposed to have 6 planes by the end of 2009; today we have 15! If other opportunities, like Vueling, come up I am willing to bet the company will gobble them up. And while it is fully possible and probable that we could get another 2 planes this year and maybe 3-4 the next few years; no one has so indicated. Rumors and conjecture, but nothing official.


As for upgrades, well guys you know when we get planes, pilots also come in the door. Captains that is! I have been flying with F/Os that have completed their assessment and have been put on indefinite hold. Training is overloaded and the company needs to get the Captains on the line. Currently they are set with F/Os but Captains are unbelievably short. We all are flying max and while guys are making a whole lot of money, upgrades have all but come to a stop. The reason is simple. A current Captain on the 320, will only take a PT, PC and a few bounces in the plane to get on the line. 2 sim sessions! So the company can get 3-4 Captains on the line for the same amount of sim time to upgrade one F/O. Also the line time for a seasoned Captain will be but a fraction of the line time for a first time Captain.

It has been this way every summer since we started (and I’ve seen them all.) About October-November we should be caught up with Captains (assuming we don’t add frequency and new cities like we are currently doing.) At that time the F/O sim backlog jam should start clearing out like Emirates Road after midnight. But just like Emirates 311 it will be jammed again by April or May.


I don’t want to be argumentative, but I also want to present facts as best I know them.

B&O

W Weasel

Hi Wanax:

Sorry about your tour in the sand pit, but then again we fly around here everyday without combat pay:-)

Current means just the same as in the USA. You are current as a Captain for 6 months since your last PC, F/Os 12 months. So as long as it is less than 6 months since your last PC and you did not fly any other civil aircraft, then you are still current!

Please remember to specify TR. I understand what you mean but it does not mean the same here. There are a ton of Type Rated F/Os on small aircraft like the 320 with only a Commercial License (unlike the US airlines.) Even those with an ATP may have a TR but not left seat qualified. So be specific when you fill out your paperwork. You are an ATP with a P1 Type Rating on the A320 having xxxx hours in the left seat.


It hasn’t been the policy of ABY to require guys to give up their seniority number. The best example of that is the Canadians (who started the company). The vast majority (all except 2 – Warren Davey and Glen Burns) were furloughed Air Canada guys. They have all (save 1) gone back to Canada so as long as the company (ABY) does not upgrade you (therefore you signing a bond) that should not be a problem. However, from a decency standpoint you would want to spend at least a year or so to pay back the training time, visa moving medical and license costs etc from the company.

US Deathstar Airlines - love it?

B&O

W Weasel

toro11:

The new contract has been published and discussed ad-infinitum. Go back through the threads around the end of last year and you will find it all.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/middle-...merged-15.html

Then you can do your own math and get a good idea.

You have the lead.

W Weasel

FlytoParis:

Yes there are a set number of minimum days off. It is set by the GCAA and basically it says you have to have 7 days off each month, with a 3 month average of 8 days per month. In other words you could have 7 days this month, 8 days next month but then you would need 9 days the 3rd month.

Also the definition of a day off means 2 local nights in base (which is important in ABY’s operation.)

There are other rules based upon days flying (7 consecutive days requires 2 consecutive days off) etc. but not to worry; just about every reg in the books will come into play.

For example, I have 9 trips this month with 12 days leave,7 days off and 3 days that start just before midnight (23 hours off prior to flying on those days) or end just after midnight.

Yet this roster has 63 block hours, 82 duty hours and pays 90 hours in basically 9 days. It is an extremely hard schedule and I will have to spend a few days recouping but still!

So don’t worry about days off. You may have a weak month (a lot of low time flying in many days) here and there but more often than not you will run against some limitation that forces days off on top of your schedule.

As for KTM, it has had some big changes. Crews are no longer based there nor are we over-nighting there any more. It appears to have been a bust for even the cabin crew are now flying out of SHJ. I believe they only have 1 airplane still flying out of there and what the future holds in still up for grabs. You must realize, there are so many routes where we absolutely fill planes at any price that marginal 50, 60 or 70% load factors are unacceptable.

Burners & Out

nibraska

Can any one tell me if recruiting will be effected because of the raising Fuel price?
Will ME airlines be intrseted on recruiting the 900+ pilots who are going to lose their jobs in the states and in europe?
Please PM.
Regards

W Weasel

Nibraska, pilots have been loosing their jobs in the states for 50 years. We use to say, the requirement for a pilot, of a major airline, to upgrade to Captain is that you were furloughed at least once and divorced at least twice.

Come on guys, this is nothing new! In 1969 (yes I was flying then and I know many of you were not even a gleam in your Daddy’s eye) a sign on I-5 outside Seattle said: “Would the last person leaving Seattle please turn out the lights.” Seattle (Boeing) were nearly out of business. Not only were the company engineers loosing jobs, the airlines were furloughing (laying off) like crazy. Then the first oil crunch in 1973 and the bigger one in 1978 saw thousands of pilots walking the streets (some forever.) The largest set back was under the Reagan administration when good old Ronnie boy fired all the Air Traffic Controllers (PATCO.) Not only did every airline in the nation lay off pilots but major airlines shut their doors forever. Braniff, old Continental, Western, National and eventually Pan Am. Sure some of the pilots got into other carriers and even parts of carriers were picked up by still others (United and Pan Am’s Pacific routes, while Delta bought Pan Am’s Europe operation) but large number of pilots never flew again – ask those airbus pilots at Pan Am

Please remember 900 pilots at UAL or 1000 at AMR or 2000 at Delta (while 10-15% of their pilot force) are not the final number. Recall AMR negotiated for nearly 2 years on its pilot contract and much of this is a negotiating ploy. Of course there is hardship for the carriers, but I have seen it before. A large percentage of these “jobs” will go through voluntary leave of absences and early retirements. The final number will be far less and while that is of little consequence to the guy out on the street; non-Americans must understand the USA is a complete seniority system. There are no direct entry Captains at major airlines and furloughs go from the bottom up. In the vast majority of cases that means the guy with the most flying left in his career is the guy out on the street.

Also it is highly unlikely that many of the pilots there will come to the ME. All the while the ME, India and Asia need pilots by the tens of thousands. So fear not about that highly trained F/O at American Airlines. He will probably use his engineering or computer science degree to get a job writing software for a few years until he is recalled.

Burners and Out!

Spoogie

WWeasel...The question remains! How do you think Air Arabia will fear in light of this escalating oil price. Do you think the hiring for F/O's will stop/continue. I start with them soon and I am also curious, after being laid off a few times!!

nibraska

Dude W Weasel ,
Thanks a lot for the informative reply.
the only thing that i noticed people in this site agree on is:
there is a big demand on pilots.
my question is, why are the airlines acting diffrently?
list of requirments just to be considered to attaend the placment test!!!
not to mention flying hours, type of license, medical bla bla bla bla.
we all know that what will make you a good pilot is your training with the air line not the 12 month course you do to obtain you CPL.
Im really waiting on your comments on this.


Cyyya

W Weasel

Hey Guys:

The first time I came through the Middle East was in 1978 in the right seat of an L-1011 charter flight. We flew from SAN to LHR to DXB to KTM. Fuel and crew stops them all. You must remember there were no airlines here at that time. No EK or EY; no Jazerra or Omani; no Qatar or ABY – nothing but Saudi, Kuwait and Gulf Air with its VC-10s. Don’t get technical about Royal Jordanian, Iran Air, Syranian Air etc for they are not and never have been big players.

The point is the aviation business in this region has literally blown up the last decade. Even the powerhouse (EK) only really grew the last 6-7 years. As for low cost airlines ABY was the first some 4.5 years ago. Today you have SAMA, NAS, Jazerra, RAK, and Fly Dubai right here. If you exclude Indian Airlines, you have another dozen or so in India (Indigo, Deacon, Sahara, Indian Express etc.) All flying 737s or 320s and only 2 hours from the ME! Even the Indian big boys (Jet Airways and Kingfisher) with their A-330s, 340s and 777 have only come on scene the last few years (Kingfisher is getting A-380s.) Now throw in the Chinese (China Southern, Northern, Eastern etc.) and you have 50% of the planet’s population (along with 2 of the 3 fastest growing economies on the planet) within reach of a baby bus or turbo Hoover Boeing. Don’t forget the Russians George (Patton)!

So Nibraska you are right to say “there is a big demand [for] pilots.” But more so there is a big choice for pilots. So the question is why ABY?

In my case I can only say there are a ton of personal reasons: location, management, corporate vision, job satisfaction, equipment, maintenance growth, esprit-de-corp and a dozen other factors. Sure there is BS, but where isn’t it? You want to make good money and have a low cost of living go to Air Asia or Vietnam Air – Dubai and Sharjah are quite expensive. Nice planes and good money – but those pilots at ABY that flew there and left can tell you – did you ever work for a Vietnamese? Great layovers and walk right into a 340 or 777 – go to EK or EY – can you say arrogant management George? Nice planes and good location – Qatar or Bahrain – but expect to spend a fortune and wait months for a house or school.

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Those that know me know I do not drink the Jonestown Kool-aid. But you want different flying; it exists all over the region. Beautiful countryside flying A-321s for Air Astana – can you say Borat? A-380s for Kingfisher – shake your head! Want a beer – don’t go to Jazerra! See a bikini at the beach – just say no to NAS! Big cash; pay your taxes at Jet Airways. Why do cows, with acres of grass to eat, always stick their heads between the wires on a fence to chew the grass on the other side of the fence?


While it is very expensive to live and work here at ABY, you have everything as well. With the falling dollar (the local currency AED is tied to the US dollar) inflation is running about 12-15%. However, the UAE (especially Dubai) is a fully Western nation/city. English is spoken everywhere including the local Emiratee population. The intellectual level of the local population (including the Bahrainis, Omani etc) is extremely high with advanced degrees from Europe and the USA. Western schools flourish and the education level is far above that of the USA’s best private schools. Services (internet, cell phones, movies, etc) as well as the infrastructure (roads, sewer – excluding drainage for rain – garbage collection) is the best in the world. The UAE does everything bigger and larger than anywhere in the world – it is custom.

Homes, my friends for those in the West, you have never seen such homes! 4000-5000 sq ft homes are a dime a dozen and they are considered “modest.” I have previously described my home and location, but size is something most of you in the West can not even dream about.

So I hope I have answered some of your concerns. For those of you who have PMed me I believe I have included your concerns and my beliefs and feelings. I will address the requirements mentioned a little more later, but I honestly feel I have done that already.

I’m out-a-here! You have the lead!