Air Arabia - all you need to know about it (threads merged)
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F/O Basic
Less then 1000 hrs = 15,000 Dhm
1000 to 2000 hrs = 16,000 Dhm
More then 2000 hrs = 19,000 Dhm
Housing = 10,200 Dhm (122,400 per year) a dedicated housing allowance so pilots who would like to benefit from the advanced pay can utilize the full amount in one lump sum.
Transport = 1,000 Dhm
Total fixed pay = 26,200 - 30,200 Dhm
Seniority increase = 350 Dhm on completion of one year and 500 Dhm for every successive year to a maximum of 5000 Dhm.
Education Allowance = Total allowance up to a max of.75,000 Dhm. (50,000 Dhm for Outside UAE) for an academic year for all children within the age group of 4 to 18 years. There is no per child limit.
Flying Allowance Day flights will be paid @1 time the credit block hours allowance &Night flights will be paid @1.5 times the credit block hours allowance.
Credit Block Hours = Scheduled Two Sector Flight Time rounded to next highest hour. A Sharjah-Sana-Sharjah two sector trip has a scheduled block time of 2:35 Sharjah-Sana and 2:30 Sana-Sharjah for a trip total of 5:05. The credit block hours is 6 hours of pay.
Night Pay is the flying that commences between 1830- 0630 local no matter what time the trip ends. In the Sana, Yemen case above, the credit block hours is 1.5 the day credit block hours or 9 hours of pay in this Sana example if it departs between the hours designated as night. Approximately 39% of Air Arabia flying hours are night flying.
Flying Allowance Rate 1- 25 hrs = 20/hr; 26 -50 hrs = 40/hr; 51- 75 hrs = 80/hr; 76+ = 160/hr
Duty pay @ 10 Dhm/ actual flying duty hour
Day off Flying @ 240Dhm (?) plus flying allowance rate
Annual Leave = 45 days
LOL, Death Insurance, Medical Insurance remains the same.
Sick and Personal Leave remain the same.
Annual Bonus = Unknown, but 2006 was 3 months.
Stock = Unknown, but last restricted award was 150,000 shares to F/Os with progressive vesting dates.
Synopses: The difference between flight time and credit time is apx 7.2% based upon Air Arabia’s schedule. The differential between day and night pay is fair. The incentive for reduced flight times for the crew is large with the according benefit. The difference in potential pay is great but it depends upon the pilot’s personal desires. The pilot has the ability to choose between large salary and quality of life.
Should a pilot choose to maximize his/her pay the potential is great. A pilot can choose to fly 100 hours of night flights. 100 hours of actual flying is about 107.2 credit hours of flying.
Night flying is a 50% premium or 161 hours for pay. You do the same math as for a Captain.
Caveat: there are several areas that must be addressed. The scenarios above are maximums to a degree. They do not take into account under flying which would allow the pilot to accumulate more credit block hours per actual hour flown. It also assumes the night legalities are adhered too but all in all it is a good example. It is possible to make more per month but the minimum is fairly accurate for a 100 hour flying month. Air Arabia pilots fly the legal maximum yearly = 900 block hours. The credited hours can be considerably higher.
Under flying is that amount of flying that is actually done below the scheduled flying. In other words in the Sana case above a pilot flying the 5:05 trip is paid 6 hours.
Assuming it would be possible (legalities etc) to fly this trip all month a pilot would be able to fly this 19.7 times in a month (20 times) and get paid for 120 hours. Should the pilot fly the flight in 4:30 per trip his pay is still 6 hours; however, he would be able to fly this 22.2 times a month. This would pay him 133.3 hours a month or a 13 hour premium for under fly. If this flying were all night flying (once again assuming legalities) the credit time would be 200 hours for pay. A pretty heavy pay check at 55,000+ Dhm!
Assumption is for F/O with over 2000 hours time in type.
AED (Dhm) = 3.66/$1US
Sorry, but the original question was for a Captain.
Pharaoh, actually the answer is almost 3 days old. Pretty slow for PPrune:-)
243.0
Burners and Out!
Less then 1000 hrs = 15,000 Dhm
1000 to 2000 hrs = 16,000 Dhm
More then 2000 hrs = 19,000 Dhm
Housing = 10,200 Dhm (122,400 per year) a dedicated housing allowance so pilots who would like to benefit from the advanced pay can utilize the full amount in one lump sum.
Transport = 1,000 Dhm
Total fixed pay = 26,200 - 30,200 Dhm
Seniority increase = 350 Dhm on completion of one year and 500 Dhm for every successive year to a maximum of 5000 Dhm.
Education Allowance = Total allowance up to a max of.75,000 Dhm. (50,000 Dhm for Outside UAE) for an academic year for all children within the age group of 4 to 18 years. There is no per child limit.
Flying Allowance Day flights will be paid @1 time the credit block hours allowance &Night flights will be paid @1.5 times the credit block hours allowance.
Credit Block Hours = Scheduled Two Sector Flight Time rounded to next highest hour. A Sharjah-Sana-Sharjah two sector trip has a scheduled block time of 2:35 Sharjah-Sana and 2:30 Sana-Sharjah for a trip total of 5:05. The credit block hours is 6 hours of pay.
Night Pay is the flying that commences between 1830- 0630 local no matter what time the trip ends. In the Sana, Yemen case above, the credit block hours is 1.5 the day credit block hours or 9 hours of pay in this Sana example if it departs between the hours designated as night. Approximately 39% of Air Arabia flying hours are night flying.
Flying Allowance Rate 1- 25 hrs = 20/hr; 26 -50 hrs = 40/hr; 51- 75 hrs = 80/hr; 76+ = 160/hr
Duty pay @ 10 Dhm/ actual flying duty hour
Day off Flying @ 240Dhm (?) plus flying allowance rate
Annual Leave = 45 days
LOL, Death Insurance, Medical Insurance remains the same.
Sick and Personal Leave remain the same.
Annual Bonus = Unknown, but 2006 was 3 months.
Stock = Unknown, but last restricted award was 150,000 shares to F/Os with progressive vesting dates.
Synopses: The difference between flight time and credit time is apx 7.2% based upon Air Arabia’s schedule. The differential between day and night pay is fair. The incentive for reduced flight times for the crew is large with the according benefit. The difference in potential pay is great but it depends upon the pilot’s personal desires. The pilot has the ability to choose between large salary and quality of life.
Should a pilot choose to maximize his/her pay the potential is great. A pilot can choose to fly 100 hours of night flights. 100 hours of actual flying is about 107.2 credit hours of flying.
Night flying is a 50% premium or 161 hours for pay. You do the same math as for a Captain.
Caveat: there are several areas that must be addressed. The scenarios above are maximums to a degree. They do not take into account under flying which would allow the pilot to accumulate more credit block hours per actual hour flown. It also assumes the night legalities are adhered too but all in all it is a good example. It is possible to make more per month but the minimum is fairly accurate for a 100 hour flying month. Air Arabia pilots fly the legal maximum yearly = 900 block hours. The credited hours can be considerably higher.
Under flying is that amount of flying that is actually done below the scheduled flying. In other words in the Sana case above a pilot flying the 5:05 trip is paid 6 hours.
Assuming it would be possible (legalities etc) to fly this trip all month a pilot would be able to fly this 19.7 times in a month (20 times) and get paid for 120 hours. Should the pilot fly the flight in 4:30 per trip his pay is still 6 hours; however, he would be able to fly this 22.2 times a month. This would pay him 133.3 hours a month or a 13 hour premium for under fly. If this flying were all night flying (once again assuming legalities) the credit time would be 200 hours for pay. A pretty heavy pay check at 55,000+ Dhm!
Assumption is for F/O with over 2000 hours time in type.
AED (Dhm) = 3.66/$1US
Sorry, but the original question was for a Captain.
Pharaoh, actually the answer is almost 3 days old. Pretty slow for PPrune:-)
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I am sorry to all of you who have PMed me but I simply can not answer all your questions individually. I will answer the bulk of them on the forum so others will not have to repeat the question.
Upgrade: this seems to be the most repeated question. Yes Air Arabia has a good upgrade program. The time to the beginning of the process is from 14-20 months now but I am sure it will decrease soon (see aircraft acquisition below.) The length of time depends on the pilot (assuming you have the minimum qualifications for upgrade – they do not bend and you will be passed if you don’t have them.) System knowledge is stressed but most guys have trouble “being a Captain.” All those other things only Captains think about every flight. You know, Cabin Crew, ground handling, connecting flights, take time to tanker or not etc.
Pilots: currently there are about 150 pilots but there should be about 500+ by 2012. Of the approximate 75 Captains 30+ were hired as F/Os (1 new Captain was released just today and several more are in the pipeline.)
Aircraft & Acquisitions: the company currently has 10 A-320s 77K (170,000 lbs.) MGTOW. The plan is for a fleet of at least 34 aircraft. The exact type has not been released but it will be either 737s or 320s. Watch the news at the Dubai Air Show for an announcement – my guess.
Stock: Many have asked me about my mention of the stock and restricted grants. Air Arabia did what most companies do for senior executives and gave restricted grants to only the pilots (and senior management.) This is a windfall for the pilots but as with any such incentive it has a maturity date. The grant was free. Captains received 250,000 shares and F/Os received 150,000 shares. The current stock value is 1.52 which makes this a 380,000 Dhm “present” to captains and 228,000 Dhm “gift” to F/Os. 60% matures in 3 years with 100% in 5 years but it cost nothing. Whatever the stock price is at that time – well that is what you get if you sell – you can keep it too. Dividends are a guaranteed 25% minimum of gross profits.
During the IPO there were other stock incentives for the senior pilots as well as bonus shares for workers, but that is past and not available to people joining now – the IPO is over and the stock trades publicly now. Future programs are – well, speculation on my part alone!
Scheduling: Still a mess but with the new incentives I see a large improvement because of the diverging desires of the various pilots. Some will want money and others will want days off while still others will want the different types of trips. These availabilities are there and the different monetary rewards will weed out the competition between pilots. The biggest problem with scheduling is the company is constantly short of crews.
Crew Bases: Currently OMSJ is the only base but the CEO has made numerous statements that they want bases in the Eastern Mediterranean Region (North Africa is my guess) and East of India (probably Kathmandu or Bangladesh.) The details are still some time away – my guess.
Trips & Layovers: The trips vary but the average length is about 7 hours block with 9 hours duty. The credit is between 8-10.5 hours pay under the new scheme. Everything (except VCBI) is an out and back – no layovers. So you will spend every day (or night) at home. While sounding nice it is a double edge sword. While you definitely will be home every day or night, you will also fly the next day or night. Currently flying is about 17-18 days average, but as trip times are increasing that will have to drop. You may amass 80 hour of block time in 11 days but will have to fly another 6-8 days to gain the final 12-20 hours – and you will have to fly it. This should change by the New Year, but as of today that is the way it is.
Second Officer Program: Yes, ABY has a 2nd officer program but it is quite stringent. Very difficult to get into and quite expensive once in. Pay = non existent, work = slave. Will fly for food is far too generous. However many have done so. Dispatchers and Cabin Crew are now flying the line as paid F/Os on the scale above and one former S/O is now simply waiting to amass flight time to upgrade. Technically challenging, for every flight is a check ride and you will have no life. But if you are up to it then go for it.
Retirement: the pilot force is quite young and there is little incentive by them to request a retirement plan. As a result there is none per say. The stock IPO has given quite a few of the older pilots the opportunity to amass a large amount of shares (many have over a million shares) but other than the restricted grants, bonus grants and IPO strike price purchases; there is nothing else. Well other than the standard UAE severance pay of 2 weeks per year employment. Will it change? Probably as the pilot forces ages.
Management: I labeled this topic “management” since several of you asked me “what is it like to work at Air Arabia.” I believe it is the management that sets the environment and in that respect it is quite good. Yes there are problems with scheduling and in the company’s ingenious way they have reduced that considerably. But from the CEO (who has a TRUE open door policy) to the Director of Operations the bosses are honest guys. They will give you an answer (you may not like the answer) but they will give you an honest one.
The company is turning into a true Southwest Airlines of the USA. The incentive is to save money for the company and by doing so the pilot increases his personal pay. The variety of working environments will now depend on the pilot’s personal desires and those can change at the pilot’s bequest. The growth is phenomenal with corporate profits reporting new records every month. For long term prospects I suggest you read Deutche Bank’s recommendation to institutional investors: a current buy recommendation at 1.75. Moody and S&P's ratings are AAa & AA+. So you decide – yes I am personally bullish on both the stock and the operation.
Dubai V. Sharjah: They are close neighbors and a large percentage of pilots live in Dubai. The boarder is less than 10 miles from SHJ airport and in many cases closer than downtown SHJ. Now the traffic – well there is enough stuff on the net to find out for yourself.
I hope this answers the bulk of your questions. If I did not get to your direct question I apologize in advance. Re PM me and I will get to it when I can – you have the lead!
Wild Weasel (Rumble 2) is Burners and Out!
Upgrade: this seems to be the most repeated question. Yes Air Arabia has a good upgrade program. The time to the beginning of the process is from 14-20 months now but I am sure it will decrease soon (see aircraft acquisition below.) The length of time depends on the pilot (assuming you have the minimum qualifications for upgrade – they do not bend and you will be passed if you don’t have them.) System knowledge is stressed but most guys have trouble “being a Captain.” All those other things only Captains think about every flight. You know, Cabin Crew, ground handling, connecting flights, take time to tanker or not etc.
Pilots: currently there are about 150 pilots but there should be about 500+ by 2012. Of the approximate 75 Captains 30+ were hired as F/Os (1 new Captain was released just today and several more are in the pipeline.)
Aircraft & Acquisitions: the company currently has 10 A-320s 77K (170,000 lbs.) MGTOW. The plan is for a fleet of at least 34 aircraft. The exact type has not been released but it will be either 737s or 320s. Watch the news at the Dubai Air Show for an announcement – my guess.
Stock: Many have asked me about my mention of the stock and restricted grants. Air Arabia did what most companies do for senior executives and gave restricted grants to only the pilots (and senior management.) This is a windfall for the pilots but as with any such incentive it has a maturity date. The grant was free. Captains received 250,000 shares and F/Os received 150,000 shares. The current stock value is 1.52 which makes this a 380,000 Dhm “present” to captains and 228,000 Dhm “gift” to F/Os. 60% matures in 3 years with 100% in 5 years but it cost nothing. Whatever the stock price is at that time – well that is what you get if you sell – you can keep it too. Dividends are a guaranteed 25% minimum of gross profits.
During the IPO there were other stock incentives for the senior pilots as well as bonus shares for workers, but that is past and not available to people joining now – the IPO is over and the stock trades publicly now. Future programs are – well, speculation on my part alone!
Scheduling: Still a mess but with the new incentives I see a large improvement because of the diverging desires of the various pilots. Some will want money and others will want days off while still others will want the different types of trips. These availabilities are there and the different monetary rewards will weed out the competition between pilots. The biggest problem with scheduling is the company is constantly short of crews.
Crew Bases: Currently OMSJ is the only base but the CEO has made numerous statements that they want bases in the Eastern Mediterranean Region (North Africa is my guess) and East of India (probably Kathmandu or Bangladesh.) The details are still some time away – my guess.
Trips & Layovers: The trips vary but the average length is about 7 hours block with 9 hours duty. The credit is between 8-10.5 hours pay under the new scheme. Everything (except VCBI) is an out and back – no layovers. So you will spend every day (or night) at home. While sounding nice it is a double edge sword. While you definitely will be home every day or night, you will also fly the next day or night. Currently flying is about 17-18 days average, but as trip times are increasing that will have to drop. You may amass 80 hour of block time in 11 days but will have to fly another 6-8 days to gain the final 12-20 hours – and you will have to fly it. This should change by the New Year, but as of today that is the way it is.
Second Officer Program: Yes, ABY has a 2nd officer program but it is quite stringent. Very difficult to get into and quite expensive once in. Pay = non existent, work = slave. Will fly for food is far too generous. However many have done so. Dispatchers and Cabin Crew are now flying the line as paid F/Os on the scale above and one former S/O is now simply waiting to amass flight time to upgrade. Technically challenging, for every flight is a check ride and you will have no life. But if you are up to it then go for it.
Retirement: the pilot force is quite young and there is little incentive by them to request a retirement plan. As a result there is none per say. The stock IPO has given quite a few of the older pilots the opportunity to amass a large amount of shares (many have over a million shares) but other than the restricted grants, bonus grants and IPO strike price purchases; there is nothing else. Well other than the standard UAE severance pay of 2 weeks per year employment. Will it change? Probably as the pilot forces ages.
Management: I labeled this topic “management” since several of you asked me “what is it like to work at Air Arabia.” I believe it is the management that sets the environment and in that respect it is quite good. Yes there are problems with scheduling and in the company’s ingenious way they have reduced that considerably. But from the CEO (who has a TRUE open door policy) to the Director of Operations the bosses are honest guys. They will give you an answer (you may not like the answer) but they will give you an honest one.
The company is turning into a true Southwest Airlines of the USA. The incentive is to save money for the company and by doing so the pilot increases his personal pay. The variety of working environments will now depend on the pilot’s personal desires and those can change at the pilot’s bequest. The growth is phenomenal with corporate profits reporting new records every month. For long term prospects I suggest you read Deutche Bank’s recommendation to institutional investors: a current buy recommendation at 1.75. Moody and S&P's ratings are AAa & AA+. So you decide – yes I am personally bullish on both the stock and the operation.
Dubai V. Sharjah: They are close neighbors and a large percentage of pilots live in Dubai. The boarder is less than 10 miles from SHJ airport and in many cases closer than downtown SHJ. Now the traffic – well there is enough stuff on the net to find out for yourself.
I hope this answers the bulk of your questions. If I did not get to your direct question I apologize in advance. Re PM me and I will get to it when I can – you have the lead!
Wild Weasel (Rumble 2) is Burners and Out!
Last edited by W Weasel; 10th Oct 2007 at 03:50.
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Hi Wild Weasel,
Thank you so much for providing us with this very well detailed information.
I am really looking forward to flying with you guys !
Though you guys seem to fly a lot, the work atmosphere sounds nice, and you really get the money that goes with it ! ! !
Happy landings everybody.
Thank you so much for providing us with this very well detailed information.
I am really looking forward to flying with you guys !
Though you guys seem to fly a lot, the work atmosphere sounds nice, and you really get the money that goes with it ! ! !
Happy landings everybody.
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Fresh Pilots ?
Dear Indonep:
I have no idea what you mean by “realistic info on how the life is like for a FRESH pilot working/training as a S/o at Air Arabia?”
Air Arabia is NOT a flight school nor is it a training academy. It is a public corporation whose requirements are to increase shareholder wealth and not a government airline. Its main purpose is to fly people from point A to B safely and efficiently, always remembering to make a profit for shareholders. As a result it does not have ab-initio programs like Egypt Air, Air India, Cathy Pacific and Lufthansa etc. There is no training for a “FRESH” pilot. You will have to have all your licenses/ratings up to the ATP before you can apply for the S/O program.
Unless you are an Emiratee Citizen (citizen of the UAE) you will be competing with other candidates trying to get into the program. Most of the outside candidates that get in already have an A-320 type rating or experience.
In the early days the first candidates were from Europe and came complete with JAR licenses in their pocket. They then paid a lot of cash up front for a rating with ABY. That has changed! The large majority of S/O candidates that come into the program now are in-house employees. These are cabin crew, dispatchers etc. that have taken a leave of absence, traveled to the USA (the majority go there, but some do their training locally) and get their PPL, CPL, IR & MEL. Then they go buy their A-320 type rating somewhere: some in Miami, others in Jordan and others still in Cairo, but wherever they go they get the rating.
Most have about 500+ hours and from now on the program is intense. They know the aircraft but before they fly they have hours in the FMGS trainer. Then they have hours more in the sim again. I am not certain but it is about 4-6 months after the start of the program before they fly their first flight. Every flight from now on is with an instructor (TRI/TRE) and the verbal drilling/examination is extensive. I believe they are required to amass 250 sectors and 500 hours minimum before they can be released for their PPC.
I have flown with many of the graduates but they admit the program is very hard and time consuming. They have no life. Except for the UAE locals there is no pay while in the program and all expenses are on you. You are required to sign a 5 year working bond that does not start until you finish the program and you have no benefits including scheduling, sick leave, and vacation etc rights. You are not an employee and graduating is not a guarantee of even getting hired at ABY. You are lower than a worm in a ditch!
Indonep, I see from your question you are concerned about quality of life as a S/O. Let me tell you, if that is even a slight concern you may want to consider another line of work. As the salesman said to the customer in the Ferrari showroom: “Sir, if you have to ask the price of the car you can not afford the car!”
But not to worry, it appears the only S/Os getting into the program today are UAE citizens or Air Arabia employees. You have the lead!
Rumble 2 is Burners and Out!
I have no idea what you mean by “realistic info on how the life is like for a FRESH pilot working/training as a S/o at Air Arabia?”
Air Arabia is NOT a flight school nor is it a training academy. It is a public corporation whose requirements are to increase shareholder wealth and not a government airline. Its main purpose is to fly people from point A to B safely and efficiently, always remembering to make a profit for shareholders. As a result it does not have ab-initio programs like Egypt Air, Air India, Cathy Pacific and Lufthansa etc. There is no training for a “FRESH” pilot. You will have to have all your licenses/ratings up to the ATP before you can apply for the S/O program.
- Correction: The statement that ABY does not have an Ab-Initio program is inaccurate. There is a program for UAE National Pilots only. The law requires that corporations "hire" and "encourage the advancement or UAE Citizens." Therefore, there is a program for those citizens only.
Unless you are an Emiratee Citizen (citizen of the UAE) you will be competing with other candidates trying to get into the program. Most of the outside candidates that get in already have an A-320 type rating or experience.
In the early days the first candidates were from Europe and came complete with JAR licenses in their pocket. They then paid a lot of cash up front for a rating with ABY. That has changed! The large majority of S/O candidates that come into the program now are in-house employees. These are cabin crew, dispatchers etc. that have taken a leave of absence, traveled to the USA (the majority go there, but some do their training locally) and get their PPL, CPL, IR & MEL. Then they go buy their A-320 type rating somewhere: some in Miami, others in Jordan and others still in Cairo, but wherever they go they get the rating.
- Correction: this was not to imply that all non UAE S/Os bought a rating. As stated, in the early days many of them bought it via ABY. Today the program is different as stated.
Most have about 500+ hours and from now on the program is intense. They know the aircraft but before they fly they have hours in the FMGS trainer. Then they have hours more in the sim again. I am not certain but it is about 4-6 months after the start of the program before they fly their first flight. Every flight from now on is with an instructor (TRI/TRE) and the verbal drilling/examination is extensive. I believe they are required to amass 250 sectors and 500 hours minimum before they can be released for their PPC.
I have flown with many of the graduates but they admit the program is very hard and time consuming. They have no life. Except for the UAE locals there is no pay while in the program and all expenses are on you. You are required to sign a 5 year working bond that does not start until you finish the program and you have no benefits including scheduling, sick leave, and vacation etc rights. You are not an employee and graduating is not a guarantee of even getting hired at ABY. You are lower than a worm in a ditch!
Indonep, I see from your question you are concerned about quality of life as a S/O. Let me tell you, if that is even a slight concern you may want to consider another line of work. As the salesman said to the customer in the Ferrari showroom: “Sir, if you have to ask the price of the car you can not afford the car!”
But not to worry, it appears the only S/Os getting into the program today are UAE citizens or Air Arabia employees. You have the lead!
Rumble 2 is Burners and Out!
Last edited by W Weasel; 10th Oct 2007 at 04:01.
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Dear Sir,
I think i will rephrase my question since I have been slightly misunderstood here!
1) I have recently Graduated with an FAA CPL/IR/ME TT 230 hrs no type rating.
2) I am not a UAE National.
3) What would be an ideal preparation be like IF applying for the post on S/O, in other words what knowledge are we expected to have other that what we learnt during our training at Flight school.
4) I thank you for the info saying there will be no pay, etc.no job guarentee for S/Os who graduate in AA.I will have to plan my expenses & rethink before applying.
5) working conditions etc are least that matter to me, as a young graduate straight out from a flight school( working on the license conversion proces in Indis), getting a job is my main concern.With selling mobile phone SIM cards outside railway stations in India to becoming a cabin crew in a reputed middle eastern airline ,I just Cant wait to get a job and fly commercially!!
I think i will rephrase my question since I have been slightly misunderstood here!
1) I have recently Graduated with an FAA CPL/IR/ME TT 230 hrs no type rating.
2) I am not a UAE National.
3) What would be an ideal preparation be like IF applying for the post on S/O, in other words what knowledge are we expected to have other that what we learnt during our training at Flight school.
4) I thank you for the info saying there will be no pay, etc.no job guarentee for S/Os who graduate in AA.I will have to plan my expenses & rethink before applying.
5) working conditions etc are least that matter to me, as a young graduate straight out from a flight school( working on the license conversion proces in Indis), getting a job is my main concern.With selling mobile phone SIM cards outside railway stations in India to becoming a cabin crew in a reputed middle eastern airline ,I just Cant wait to get a job and fly commercially!!
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Air Arabia
Aircraft & Acquisitions: the company currently has 10 A-320s 77K (170,000 lbs.) MGTOW. The plan is for a fleet of at least 34 aircraft. The exact type has not been released but it will be either 737s or 320s. Watch the news at the Dubai Air Show for an announcement – my guess.
as DEC could you give the the address please
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Aby @ Omsj
http://www.airarabia.com/careers.html
I'd wait until the announcement on whether they get 737s or not.
I'd wait until the announcement on whether they get 737s or not.
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Jobs for you in India
Indonep:
I do not mean to discourage you from following your dream; however, with only 230 hours there is a whole lot you will need to learn. That said every Captain flying today once had 230 hours.
I am assuming you are an Indian National from the things you said (“learnt,” “railway stations in India,” “license conversion process in India,” etc.) As a result you have excellent avenues available to you; avenues others only dream about.
There are tens of articles that explain the need for pilots in your home country. Your federal government has publicly chased airline CEOs for internal airline problems. Anyway, I have enclosed a few addresses for you from airlines desperate for pilots in your native India.
*Kingfisher Airlines: http://www.flykingfisher.com/exp_crew.asp?id=30 While their trainees start on the ATR that is a good airplane for a new pilot. They Currently have 30 320s & ATR aircraft but have ordered 160+ aircraft including A-330s, 340s, 350s and 5 A-380s.
Jet Airways: http://www.jetairways.com/MSIB21/Tem...ACHEHINT=Guest
Currently they have 55 aircraft ranging from ATRs to B-777 & A-340s. They have 72 aircraft on order including 20 B-787s.
Indigo Airlines:
http://book.goindigo.in/skylights/cg...ghts.cgi#pilot They have 11 A-320s with 89 on order.
*Air Deccan: http://www.flyairdeccan.net/Careers.htm They have 30 aircraft with 21 on order.
*SpiceJet Airlines: http://www.spicejet.com/pilotprogram.asp or http://www.spicejet.com/careers.asp They have 11 737-800 with 14 on order. Seriously looking for pilots!
*Indian Airlines: http://indian-airlines.nic.in/script...TP_wb_2007.htm They have 74 aircraft with 39 319/320 on order.
*Air India: http://www.airindia.com/page.asp?pageid=9 They have 45 aircraft mainly B-747 & B-777 but have orders for 67 aircraft ranging from 737-800s to triple 7s and dreamliners. They have a dedicated cadet program.
Air Sahara: http://www.airsahara.net/s2v1/AboutUs/careers.aspx?id=5 They have 27 aircraft with 4 on order. They also have a helicopter division with 4 helicopters.
*Go Airlines: http://www.goair.in/co-pilot.asp They have 10 A-320 with 20 on order.
*Paramount Airways: http://www.paramountairways.com/careers.html 5 aircraft with an order for 40 additional.
* Indicates a dedicated cadet or second officer program. You will notice that while some of these airlines do not directly say they have a cadet or second officer program you will see phrases like: “For A-320 A minimum of 25 hrs on ME aircraft (of which 10 hrs could be on an approved ME simulator) is mandatory. Also Currency of ME Instrument Rating is necessary at the time of joining for A-320. For ATR Preference will be given to ME endorsement holders.” From Air Deccan.
Guys, 25 hours ME is an inexperienced pilot or a 2nd Officer/Cadet Pilot!
This is just a start but you will have a very easy time getting out of the train station and into a cockpit in your country.
Burners & Out.
I do not mean to discourage you from following your dream; however, with only 230 hours there is a whole lot you will need to learn. That said every Captain flying today once had 230 hours.
I am assuming you are an Indian National from the things you said (“learnt,” “railway stations in India,” “license conversion process in India,” etc.) As a result you have excellent avenues available to you; avenues others only dream about.
There are tens of articles that explain the need for pilots in your home country. Your federal government has publicly chased airline CEOs for internal airline problems. Anyway, I have enclosed a few addresses for you from airlines desperate for pilots in your native India.
*Kingfisher Airlines: http://www.flykingfisher.com/exp_crew.asp?id=30 While their trainees start on the ATR that is a good airplane for a new pilot. They Currently have 30 320s & ATR aircraft but have ordered 160+ aircraft including A-330s, 340s, 350s and 5 A-380s.
Jet Airways: http://www.jetairways.com/MSIB21/Tem...ACHEHINT=Guest
Currently they have 55 aircraft ranging from ATRs to B-777 & A-340s. They have 72 aircraft on order including 20 B-787s.
Indigo Airlines:
http://book.goindigo.in/skylights/cg...ghts.cgi#pilot They have 11 A-320s with 89 on order.
*Air Deccan: http://www.flyairdeccan.net/Careers.htm They have 30 aircraft with 21 on order.
*SpiceJet Airlines: http://www.spicejet.com/pilotprogram.asp or http://www.spicejet.com/careers.asp They have 11 737-800 with 14 on order. Seriously looking for pilots!
*Indian Airlines: http://indian-airlines.nic.in/script...TP_wb_2007.htm They have 74 aircraft with 39 319/320 on order.
*Air India: http://www.airindia.com/page.asp?pageid=9 They have 45 aircraft mainly B-747 & B-777 but have orders for 67 aircraft ranging from 737-800s to triple 7s and dreamliners. They have a dedicated cadet program.
Air Sahara: http://www.airsahara.net/s2v1/AboutUs/careers.aspx?id=5 They have 27 aircraft with 4 on order. They also have a helicopter division with 4 helicopters.
*Go Airlines: http://www.goair.in/co-pilot.asp They have 10 A-320 with 20 on order.
*Paramount Airways: http://www.paramountairways.com/careers.html 5 aircraft with an order for 40 additional.
* Indicates a dedicated cadet or second officer program. You will notice that while some of these airlines do not directly say they have a cadet or second officer program you will see phrases like: “For A-320 A minimum of 25 hrs on ME aircraft (of which 10 hrs could be on an approved ME simulator) is mandatory. Also Currency of ME Instrument Rating is necessary at the time of joining for A-320. For ATR Preference will be given to ME endorsement holders.” From Air Deccan.
Guys, 25 hours ME is an inexperienced pilot or a 2nd Officer/Cadet Pilot!
This is just a start but you will have a very easy time getting out of the train station and into a cockpit in your country.
Burners & Out.
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Weasel,
Your recent posts have been one of the best Ive read so far on this forum, in terms of information quanitity and quality. You are very generous.
If I could point out a few items (and ask a question or two):
1) I understand the S/O pay is approx.AED5000/month(?)(I know, not much)
2) The sectors that a zero-time S/O is required to fly is 125, I think 45 sectors if he comes to ABY with 'other' jet time and is fresh from Initial 320 training.
3) Is the F/O basic pay (<1000hrs) , 15000/mth or 13000/mth?
4) Any more TRIs/TREs inbound to ABY???
I have vested interest in these 'pieces' of info, as I am one of the in-house S/O hopefuls!!
see you around!
Your recent posts have been one of the best Ive read so far on this forum, in terms of information quanitity and quality. You are very generous.
If I could point out a few items (and ask a question or two):
1) I understand the S/O pay is approx.AED5000/month(?)(I know, not much)
2) The sectors that a zero-time S/O is required to fly is 125, I think 45 sectors if he comes to ABY with 'other' jet time and is fresh from Initial 320 training.
3) Is the F/O basic pay (<1000hrs) , 15000/mth or 13000/mth?
4) Any more TRIs/TREs inbound to ABY???
I have vested interest in these 'pieces' of info, as I am one of the in-house S/O hopefuls!!
see you around!
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Axialflow:
I did not mean to present bad information and to answer your question/statement on S/O pay I can not say. As I stated I am not management, nor am I a recruiter so all the information I present is only that which is publicly available to Air Arabia pilots. I also presented information about S/Os from those guys I flew with who came through the program and that presentation was a consensus. If the pay is now 5K a month for S/Os I say they deserve it.
The sector time – well I said “I believe” and I was referring to zero time. I do know that each pilot is assessed on individual merits, but I verified your statement about 125 sectors and you are right to a degree. It is 125 minimum plus checks. I found out only 1 pilot did it in that time however. But your data is correct.
The F/O pay IS 15,000 for less than 1, 000 hours plus housing (10,200) and transportation (1,000): for a basic of 26,200 basic. The 19,000 is for 2K+
One new TRI hired 1-2 months ago, but I don’t know the inbound pipeline.
Hope to see you on the line and I’ll jerk gear for you.
Burners and Out!
I did not mean to present bad information and to answer your question/statement on S/O pay I can not say. As I stated I am not management, nor am I a recruiter so all the information I present is only that which is publicly available to Air Arabia pilots. I also presented information about S/Os from those guys I flew with who came through the program and that presentation was a consensus. If the pay is now 5K a month for S/Os I say they deserve it.
The sector time – well I said “I believe” and I was referring to zero time. I do know that each pilot is assessed on individual merits, but I verified your statement about 125 sectors and you are right to a degree. It is 125 minimum plus checks. I found out only 1 pilot did it in that time however. But your data is correct.
The F/O pay IS 15,000 for less than 1, 000 hours plus housing (10,200) and transportation (1,000): for a basic of 26,200 basic. The 19,000 is for 2K+
One new TRI hired 1-2 months ago, but I don’t know the inbound pipeline.
Hope to see you on the line and I’ll jerk gear for you.
Burners and Out!
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Unrated pilot - still want the job
Hi Guys
First time on the forum. Need some Air Arabia info. I have 1600 TT. 400 Jet time on Citation III. 500 Multi Time.
No A320 rating. Do i stand a chance to get into Air Arabia. If the airline pays for my rating i am prepared to pay pay them back in monthly installments for sign a bond.
Any advice.....
First time on the forum. Need some Air Arabia info. I have 1600 TT. 400 Jet time on Citation III. 500 Multi Time.
No A320 rating. Do i stand a chance to get into Air Arabia. If the airline pays for my rating i am prepared to pay pay them back in monthly installments for sign a bond.
Any advice.....
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weasel...hahahaha, Ill be looking for that gear!!
Thanks for the confirmations. I do hope we get some more TRIs on line. How effective can line training be if you fly once a month! Well, im an optimist...things will def. improve as the mgmt. are a switched-on bunch.
One last question on FO salaries...inlcuding the flying allowances, what does the FO salary top out at in a month (assuming an average mix of night and day flying).
take it easy,
ax.
Thanks for the confirmations. I do hope we get some more TRIs on line. How effective can line training be if you fly once a month! Well, im an optimist...things will def. improve as the mgmt. are a switched-on bunch.
One last question on FO salaries...inlcuding the flying allowances, what does the FO salary top out at in a month (assuming an average mix of night and day flying).
take it easy,
ax.
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Answer to the TRI question. There are currently 16 TRIs/Es working like crazy.
Ax - well your statement is really hard to answer. You will fly 900 a year but the combination is up to you. Obviously, the more you fly in 1 month will give you a greater annual salary than stretching it out over 12 months. The progressive monthly salary so dictates. But here is a little you can use.
A new F/O will make 26,200 a month basic (less than a 1,000 hours in type.) Assuming 75 hours a month credited block time you make another 3,500 plus perdiem. At ABY you will not spend this since all is out and back and you can figure 100 hours = 1,000. So a 75 hour month will give you 30,700.
Now you have to determine how that 75 hours actually is gained. It could be as high as 70 hours actual block or as little as 50 hours block (night.) So while the credit is 75 the actual block will be determined on what you fly.
If you fly more per month then it will obviously be more. Let's say you take 45 consecutive days annual leave and you fly the max the rest of the year. You will have 900 hours in 10.5 months. Assuming this is spread this evenly over 10 months (also a limiting factor) you will 90 hours a month block. If you mix this 40% night and 60% day the numbers come out like this.
36 hours night = 54 credit
54 day = 57.8 credit
111.8 pay for 90 hours block
progressive pay is
500 for first 25 credit hours
1,000 for 2nd 25 credit hours
2,000 for 3rd 25 credit hours
5888 for last 36.8 credit hours
Total 9388 AED + PD 1,100
Total 10,488 + basic = 26,200
36,688 (apx $10,000 US) for 10 months.
Remaining months will be basic at 26,200 for annual total of 419,280
The combos can be higher or lower depending on how you fly. A quick example is fly the same 900 hours in 9 months (100 block per month.) Use the same mix 40/60%
40% = 40 hours = 60 credit hours
60% = 60 hours = 64.2 credit hours
124.2 hours
500 = 1st 25
1,000 = 2nd 25
2,000 = 3rd 25
7,872 = 49.2 hours
Total = 12,472 + 1,300 PD = 13,772 or 39,972 for 9 months for annual total of 438,348 AED
You can see how the differential can work. The combinations are endless and as I said before up to the pilot.
Hope this helps.
Burners and Out!
Ax - well your statement is really hard to answer. You will fly 900 a year but the combination is up to you. Obviously, the more you fly in 1 month will give you a greater annual salary than stretching it out over 12 months. The progressive monthly salary so dictates. But here is a little you can use.
A new F/O will make 26,200 a month basic (less than a 1,000 hours in type.) Assuming 75 hours a month credited block time you make another 3,500 plus perdiem. At ABY you will not spend this since all is out and back and you can figure 100 hours = 1,000. So a 75 hour month will give you 30,700.
Now you have to determine how that 75 hours actually is gained. It could be as high as 70 hours actual block or as little as 50 hours block (night.) So while the credit is 75 the actual block will be determined on what you fly.
If you fly more per month then it will obviously be more. Let's say you take 45 consecutive days annual leave and you fly the max the rest of the year. You will have 900 hours in 10.5 months. Assuming this is spread this evenly over 10 months (also a limiting factor) you will 90 hours a month block. If you mix this 40% night and 60% day the numbers come out like this.
36 hours night = 54 credit
54 day = 57.8 credit
111.8 pay for 90 hours block
progressive pay is
500 for first 25 credit hours
1,000 for 2nd 25 credit hours
2,000 for 3rd 25 credit hours
5888 for last 36.8 credit hours
Total 9388 AED + PD 1,100
Total 10,488 + basic = 26,200
36,688 (apx $10,000 US) for 10 months.
Remaining months will be basic at 26,200 for annual total of 419,280
The combos can be higher or lower depending on how you fly. A quick example is fly the same 900 hours in 9 months (100 block per month.) Use the same mix 40/60%
40% = 40 hours = 60 credit hours
60% = 60 hours = 64.2 credit hours
124.2 hours
500 = 1st 25
1,000 = 2nd 25
2,000 = 3rd 25
7,872 = 49.2 hours
Total = 12,472 + 1,300 PD = 13,772 or 39,972 for 9 months for annual total of 438,348 AED
You can see how the differential can work. The combinations are endless and as I said before up to the pilot.
Hope this helps.
Burners and Out!
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Adding that to the basic (for a 2,000+ Captain) the monthly salary would be 68,000 Dhm per month. The same flying in day would be 55,000 Dhm.
W Weasel, this payment is allowance included or just basic salary plus flight time?
Do new joiners get the stock "present" too?
Seems to me that this kind of payment is much better than EY or EK, so why are some pilots leaving for that companies (as said in this forum)?
Thank you for your participation here, you seem to be a very well informed guy regarding ABY.
SF
W Weasel, this payment is allowance included or just basic salary plus flight time?
Do new joiners get the stock "present" too?
Seems to me that this kind of payment is much better than EY or EK, so why are some pilots leaving for that companies (as said in this forum)?
Thank you for your participation here, you seem to be a very well informed guy regarding ABY.
SF
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Serious Flyer:
I don’t want to make is sound like a rose garden. Yes the numbers are right but as I said the work is hard. There are no layovers (except CMB) and while you are home every day or night you also fly every day or night. 100 block hours is hard time and while the trips are high time you will work at ABY.
As for the guys leaving – well there are second thoughts in the patch now. Notice the topic “Air Arabia - New Pay Rates.” These are new and the company is quite knowledgeable about the other jobs in the market. They simply had to become competitive and still keep the low cost model. They also knew about the difference in flying difficulties and without a night differential – well they had to do something and they did.
Everyone has to realize that this is different flying from what you probably did before. You are not going to sit at the bar and have a few drinks before you fly again tomorrow. If you do it, it will be at your home. You are not going to chase a few pretty skirts overnight and do the “gear up ring off” bit. ABY is as close to an 8 to 5 job as you can probably get in the airline business.
Some guys want that and I don’t blame them – bin there done that. They want the comradery of an overnight - dido. They want to see the sights of a strange, new town – gotta see it. But that will not happen at ABY. You will not fly an A-380 or Triple 7 here. You will not eat sushi in Tokyo or Pasta in Milan – ain’t goin’ to happen, never did never will! But if you are into your family and want to make some money – well it is competitive.
As for EK & EY – they are a different beast. They are staunch and non-flexible. If that is your cup of tea it is fine – what they give you is what you get, little change. But if you want to deal with whatever you may ever need, then flexibility is what you want. Wife having a baby, no sweat! Need time off for the kid’s football game, done! Dad need to go to hospital in Italy – you got the time off; just make it up sometime else in your schedule.
Sure that may mean you will have to cover for someone else and we all know who abuses it (so does management.) We take care of it fairly well, but still you may get stuck with something you do like because of that fact.
All I can say is the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence; unfortunately it is also thicker. In the last couple years only 2 people left here for EK. Both had family working there and found a better deal as a result (dual housing allowance etc.) EY on the other hand has seen a great exodus. Mainly F/Os who saw the pay differential, work environment and equipment a great disparity – and it WAS.
There are those folks that want to fly a wide body (an airplane is an airplane – show me the money.) There are those folks who want to run the streets – when I was younger and could; I did, so I know their desires. There are those that feel upgrade training will be different – I don’t believe it will anywhere in this part of the world. But whatever their personal desires, well they are personal and I have been lucky to hear many of the complaints first hand. Some of them I agree with and some not, but it does not matter what I fell for they are making the decision. Now is a great time in the industry and a guy/gal can choose like they could not for decades? I have not seen anything like this since the mid 70s but then again that was only a few years after LUV started. Those “poor” guys as still flying 73s
The numbers I quoted are as stated. The 55K or 68K include allowance and flying in my example. A 2,000+ Captain will definitely make 55+ K for 100 on the new scale, no matter what he flies – heck you make 40,500 for sitting on your butt for the month. That will only happen at ABY in two situations. 1) You are on leave and 2) you are 900 hours and out of time; the rest you will fly.
Hey guys ABY is not for everyone! One thing that is certain (at least now) you will not be invited into the Chief Pilot’s Office for “tea and biscuits” after a flight because you argued about a fuel load in Bombay like you would at EK. You won’t have to deal with the Gestapo at departure like you will at EY. You go, you fly and you leave – it is that simple. You have a problem, you’ll get a solution and the D.O. is a great guy who has the power to listen – he does.
Sure you screw up; you’ll get your hand slapped. You screw up twice; you’ll get it slapped real hard. Do it again you’ll find yourself in the sim doing a check ride – you deserve it. Be an arrogant idiot – we all know them – well you’ll find few guys at your farewell party.
It is not brain surgery. Go to work, fly your plane, do it safe, do it on time as best you can, don’t jerk off the other employees, don’t break anything, don’t hurt anyone and make money for the company – they will leave you alone and you will make a descent wage.
Hope this helps,
Burners and Out
I don’t want to make is sound like a rose garden. Yes the numbers are right but as I said the work is hard. There are no layovers (except CMB) and while you are home every day or night you also fly every day or night. 100 block hours is hard time and while the trips are high time you will work at ABY.
As for the guys leaving – well there are second thoughts in the patch now. Notice the topic “Air Arabia - New Pay Rates.” These are new and the company is quite knowledgeable about the other jobs in the market. They simply had to become competitive and still keep the low cost model. They also knew about the difference in flying difficulties and without a night differential – well they had to do something and they did.
Everyone has to realize that this is different flying from what you probably did before. You are not going to sit at the bar and have a few drinks before you fly again tomorrow. If you do it, it will be at your home. You are not going to chase a few pretty skirts overnight and do the “gear up ring off” bit. ABY is as close to an 8 to 5 job as you can probably get in the airline business.
Some guys want that and I don’t blame them – bin there done that. They want the comradery of an overnight - dido. They want to see the sights of a strange, new town – gotta see it. But that will not happen at ABY. You will not fly an A-380 or Triple 7 here. You will not eat sushi in Tokyo or Pasta in Milan – ain’t goin’ to happen, never did never will! But if you are into your family and want to make some money – well it is competitive.
As for EK & EY – they are a different beast. They are staunch and non-flexible. If that is your cup of tea it is fine – what they give you is what you get, little change. But if you want to deal with whatever you may ever need, then flexibility is what you want. Wife having a baby, no sweat! Need time off for the kid’s football game, done! Dad need to go to hospital in Italy – you got the time off; just make it up sometime else in your schedule.
Sure that may mean you will have to cover for someone else and we all know who abuses it (so does management.) We take care of it fairly well, but still you may get stuck with something you do like because of that fact.
All I can say is the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence; unfortunately it is also thicker. In the last couple years only 2 people left here for EK. Both had family working there and found a better deal as a result (dual housing allowance etc.) EY on the other hand has seen a great exodus. Mainly F/Os who saw the pay differential, work environment and equipment a great disparity – and it WAS.
There are those folks that want to fly a wide body (an airplane is an airplane – show me the money.) There are those folks who want to run the streets – when I was younger and could; I did, so I know their desires. There are those that feel upgrade training will be different – I don’t believe it will anywhere in this part of the world. But whatever their personal desires, well they are personal and I have been lucky to hear many of the complaints first hand. Some of them I agree with and some not, but it does not matter what I fell for they are making the decision. Now is a great time in the industry and a guy/gal can choose like they could not for decades? I have not seen anything like this since the mid 70s but then again that was only a few years after LUV started. Those “poor” guys as still flying 73s
The numbers I quoted are as stated. The 55K or 68K include allowance and flying in my example. A 2,000+ Captain will definitely make 55+ K for 100 on the new scale, no matter what he flies – heck you make 40,500 for sitting on your butt for the month. That will only happen at ABY in two situations. 1) You are on leave and 2) you are 900 hours and out of time; the rest you will fly.
Hey guys ABY is not for everyone! One thing that is certain (at least now) you will not be invited into the Chief Pilot’s Office for “tea and biscuits” after a flight because you argued about a fuel load in Bombay like you would at EK. You won’t have to deal with the Gestapo at departure like you will at EY. You go, you fly and you leave – it is that simple. You have a problem, you’ll get a solution and the D.O. is a great guy who has the power to listen – he does.
Sure you screw up; you’ll get your hand slapped. You screw up twice; you’ll get it slapped real hard. Do it again you’ll find yourself in the sim doing a check ride – you deserve it. Be an arrogant idiot – we all know them – well you’ll find few guys at your farewell party.
It is not brain surgery. Go to work, fly your plane, do it safe, do it on time as best you can, don’t jerk off the other employees, don’t break anything, don’t hurt anyone and make money for the company – they will leave you alone and you will make a descent wage.
Hope this helps,
Burners and Out
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Serious Flyer:
The stock issues are gone. I have no idea if there will be additional grants. Only people on the property as of 1 Sept 07 got the grants. The bonus shares were for people on property as of March 07. I have no idea what the company will do in the future, but I am sure they do not want to dilute the shares I hope not!
But bonus has been the best in the UAE the last 2 years. I have no idea what will happen but I am sure everyone is thinking in the 4 month range for 07. Of course it depends on profits but they have been making massive profits every month. Go for 4
The stock issues are gone. I have no idea if there will be additional grants. Only people on the property as of 1 Sept 07 got the grants. The bonus shares were for people on property as of March 07. I have no idea what the company will do in the future, but I am sure they do not want to dilute the shares I hope not!
But bonus has been the best in the UAE the last 2 years. I have no idea what will happen but I am sure everyone is thinking in the 4 month range for 07. Of course it depends on profits but they have been making massive profits every month. Go for 4