RBBB
 

Hey Whirlybird

I humbly apologise labelling you a journo, a more devastating slight I could not have bestowed upon you.

Having done an exercise test, I can vouch for it being a pain in the a**e, but thankfully not in the chest.

Air pig.

Anyone had RBBB with the new European Class 3 for ATCO's, and is the procedure similar?

Cheers

bbrush,

That's me. This thread has actually been an interesting read. Upon my initial UK Class 1/EU Class 3 at Gatwick about three weeks ago [ATCO Licence], 'Left Axis Deviation' was reported on my ECG reading.

I had to have a follow-up consultation and exercise ECG on Tuesday. The exercise ECG went very well and I got pleasing results, however during my consultation, the Cardiologist seemed to pick up a slight murmur and has requested that I undergo an Echocardiogram. Hugely frustrating as it means a longer wait of uncertainty, not to mention the £250.00 price tag attached.

Have considered going down the NHS route [free of charge], however this is likely to incur further delays so may well have to end up returning to the CAA to get the Echocardiogram carried out. No request of a 24-hour ECG though.

Cardiologist informed me that the CAA will 'normally' still issue me with a EU Class 3 certificate provided that the murmur [possibly caused by a minor leakage from a heart valve] isn't too major.


Those are my experiences thus far. Has anyone else been issued with a certificate upon a discovery of a heart murmur? I'm trying to remain positive, but can't help getting a little anxious.

Same issue for me. First picked up in SE Asia during the four hour medical with one of the most competent physicians I have encountered. He mentioned the result and he was sure I was well aware but I was certainly not. My questions were ultimately met with it's no big deal, lots of pilots have it.

I was however advised that if I ended up in the hospital with a heart attack the ECG would be useless unless the staff knew of the condition.

<<not to mention the £250.00 price tag attached.>>

Surely if you are a Heathrow ATCO you would not have to pay that?

It's an initial Medical, HD; I'm not an ATCO just yet! NATS only pay for initial Medicals but nothing to cover any additional costs during this initial phase. 'EGLL' refers to my nearest major Airport, not my occupational base unfortunately! :ok:

Received news from my GP today that I would be looking at a three month wait, should I go down the NHS route. Would like to get things moving as soon as possible though, so I may have to end up forking out the money and return to the CAA. Given the fact that I need to get my certificate within twelve months of my conditional job offer, would encourage me to get things done quickly, so it looks to be the expensive route after all.

On the, thankfully, rare occasions when I have needed specialist examinations I have forked out for private treatment. With NHS it was 2-3 months of waiting and worrying but going private had the job done in a few days.

Good luck. Hope everything pans out OK.

Incomplete RBBB
 

Can anyone tell me if this is a less significant form?
I've just had class 2 & had this picked up. AME told me one in five people have this & it's nothing to worry about, just needs to be reported. Also said won't affect me getting class 1 either.

Yes, if it's incomplete there's no problem and you can get a Class 1. I found that out when doing some research. I think it's somewhere on the CAA website, but I can't remember where now.

Cheers, Whirlybird.
I did have a quick search but never found it, however on looking again found it this time:
it's in JAR 3.145 (Subpart B) page 35

"Incomplete Right Bundle Branch
RBBB algorithm only applies to

Current algorithm for RBBB for a EU Class 3:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/1943/RBBB%20Algo0609.pdf

It's strange, I haven't been requested to do a 24-hour ECG. Instead, just an Echocardiogram.

Thanks, HD. Hopefully things will pan out okay. I'm looking to book an appointment with the CAA as soon as possible. Might be a slight wait of a week or two as their Cardiologists are not in every day.

At 63, I`ve just lost my Class 1 Medical having been diagnosed with Atrial Fibrillation. The CAA, remember the days when they used to be a non profit-making organisation, have grounded me and sent me a copy of their Protocol and a list of Consultants and standard fees.
Now out of work, and surviving on 2 small pensions from previous employers, I took the cheap way out.
I took my CAA letters, including the Protocol to my GP, who I have known for over 20 years. She logged on to the local NHS site was able to get me an appointment at my local Hospital the following week. I have completed all the tests, didn`t do well on the exercise ECG, being overweight didn`t help, but so far it hasn`t cost me anything.
I`m on tablets approved by the CAA and so will try and get another excercise ECG at a later date and if that is satisfactory will send the documents off to the CAA, with the appropriate fee of course, for them to read and pontificate.

Received confirmation today that I have gained my EU Class 3 [UK Class 1] Medical!!

This was following on from my original Left Axis Deviation. It emerged that I have a slight heart murmur, however following on from my Echocardiogram, the murmur seems minor enough for the CAA Medics to grant me my certificate!

I'll have to have another Echocardiogram in three years time to make sure nothing has changed significantly, but aside from that, my ATCO career can begin! I am absolutely ecstatic!


All the best to anyone going through the medical process. Although it can be costly at the CAA, they do a fantastic job and I wholeheartedly recommend their expertise.

So glad all has panned out OK. My wife has a heart murmur, which was only found with an echo scan 2 years ago. She had it checked recently and it had not changed so she has to have her next check in 3 years.

If you have a UK Class 1 medical there ain't much wrong with you!!

Hope all goes well with the course...

HD: Many thanks!!

Very true!

Advice needed please
 

Thanks for that. I think I would be classed as unfit going by the info in the cardiology link.

Peeliewally. Apart from the medical aspects, at 39 you would find ATC training gruelling and IMHO there would be a greater than 50% chance that you would not make it to validation.

However, it has happened so I wish you the very best of luck...

Thanks for your advice. I don't think being 39 stands me at any disadvantage, possibly more advantageous. I currently have a very demanding job supporting some of the most advanced technologies in the broadcasting industry. I work unsociable shifts for the worlds most respected broadcaster and I'm regularly required to work alone for hours on end with no help from anyone else. I understand completely that it is very different from Air Traffic Control and that ATC is probably one of the most stressful jobs out there. I like working under pressure and I do it every time I'm on shift. If I get the ok from CAA Medical department I will grab this opportunity with both hands and hold on very tight and I wont let go. This is probably the most helpful forum I have joined and I have utmost respect for all it's members and their opinions. Thanks again. I'll keep you posted as I await the news.....

I agree 100% that you should give it a whirl if the medics pass you. However, it is as well to be aware of the possible problems. My views are based on training controllers over a period of some 30-odd years, both at home and abroad. For example, radar control is a skill. Some can do it; others cannot. Unfortunately, in many cases, this does not become obvious until live training commences but it is easier the younger one is.

Good luck and keep us posted..

Whirls

Sorry I havent read all 4 pages of this thread but just to try and reduce any worry you have I too have got a RBBB and i am class 1 fit and flying:D

My mother had it really bad and had some ablative surgery and is now totally fine.
My bro (28) has is worse than me and not as bad as my mum and has some drugs from time to time.
I (36) havent had any issues (skips etc) since i last had mine looked at via the NHS circa 2007.

Via the NHS I followed the following route.
1995 GP referal - hospital, 24hr ECG and an ultrasound check out - all ok and nothing on he ECG.
Then in 2007
GP referral following an increase in the frequency of flutters from a skip here or there once every few months to several a day
Consultant referral
24 ECG
Numerous imaging including more ultrasound
Consultant check out - all fine. In fact he said dont let it stress you out hahaha

I then got the NHS records people (very helpful) to ship to me ALL of my records regarding my incomplete RBBB and hey presto handed them over to my Gatwick C1 examiner who was over joyed and has kept them on file....Yes i have my own copy to replace the ones they may loose:)

The C1 examiner praised the fact that i had compiled these records citing that if i come accross a difficult examiner in any furture C1 renewals i can just point to my records which all say I am fine.

I really hope this helps.
B

Belongins,

Thanks, but that is actually irrelevant to my case. INCOMPLETE RBBB doesn't require any treatment or extra tests, and won't prevent you holding a Class 1. This is stated somewhere in the CAA protocol, which I think someone has given the link to forther back in this thread. COMPLETE RBBB, which I have, does need further tests. If you'd read the thread, you'd gather that my tests were all fine, and following another exercise ECG next August, I should get my unrestricted Class 1 back, with no other extra tests required, EVER.

Not meaning to sound critical of you, just giving the facts.

Whirly, I was wondering how you were getting on but didn't like to ask. Glad to hear things seem to be going well for you. :)

I have a full RBBB.

It was investigated at OASC when I joined the RN to fly - I never even got told about it at the time and nevr knew I had one... it is so inconsequential.

The only reason I found out about it was when I went for an RN pre diving course medical several years later - the duty PMO came into the room to speak to me (he wasn't doing my medical but had been asked for advice on the ECG), because he said he thought he had recognised the ECG. Turns out he had done my initial medical at Haslar many moons ago.

Again, no problems with the fact I had a RBBB, so I was able to both fly and dive for the military.

Several years later at a loose end, joined NATS and as it was an initial issue of a CAA class 1 medical, I had to undergo a 24hr tape test. Again, it proved that it was 'just' a RBBB and there has been no problem ever since.

Every time I have an ECG, the RBBB shows (obviously), but it is never an issue as it is stated on my notes that I have RBBB.

The only reason it is investigated in the initial issue medical is to ensure that the abnormal ECG is only due to an RBBB and not masking anything else.

And they don't like it if you've previously had normal ECGs and suddenly develop RBBB, in case it's indicative of something more serious. Mine doesn't appear to be, but they still insist on testing me again in a year to make sure.

An Update
 

The year is up, and I just did another horrible exercise ECG. Nothing untoward was found; in fact, the RBBB this time was incomplete. The cardiologist has no explanation whatsoever for this as it should be impossible for it to reverse!!! However, once the CAA have see the results and all the paperwork is done, I should have my unrestricted Class 1 back again. I have no instructing work, but it's nice to know that if there is any I'm legal to do it again!

Hey Whirlybird,

Fantastic you aced the exercise test, b'stard things, useful only for torturing politiicans.

Good luck flying.

Regards.

Air pig:ok:

Hello,

nice to share the information which is important for me and others also to see.I hope that you will share that type of info in future also

thanks!!