jaa medical, does it test for marjuana?
 

i'm a trainee pilot and i have to renew my medical in 6 days. Stupidly i smoked a joint last night forgetting all about it and i was just wondering does the medical test for this? I can put it off as i'm not flying for another while again. Thanks

You will be required to declare any history of substance abuse on the medical application. Suggest that you read the penalties for making a false declaration.

Anyone stupid enough to indulge in illegal drug taking should NEVER be allowed anywhere near the controls of ANY aeroplane.

Kick your habit NOW or lose any hope of an aviation career.

You "forgot" just days before the medical? Please tell me this a wind-up.....please.

I would suggest another career, I'm afraid, as I fear that with your current attitude you will be making the most expensive mistake of your life. To enter into this industry you accept your passengers' inalienable right to having competent and professional pilots up front, and not the kind who indulge in narcotics that have been medically linked to psychosis and other mental health problems. In addition to annual JAR medicals, many airlines are choosing to undertake their own, more rigorous drug testing of pilots as they are aware of its shortcomings (just as Chelsea football club were aware of the shortcomings of the F.A.'s drug testing policy, with their resulting high profile positive testing of one of their players for cocaine abuse), and the number will increase annually, such is the potential for disaster whenever drugs are involved.

You are no different to all the trainee pilots out there who are only one police stop away (the morning after the night before) from losing their career. Make a choice - you either want this career and accept the professional behaviour that must accompany it, or carry on with your waccy-baccy in a career where it is acceptable.....maybe you could become Kate Moss' p.a.?

VC10 Rib22

:ok:

norman5,
no, they don't test for marijuana as far as I know.
Just two advises:
- if you did really smoke "for mistake", try to be smarter next time and not to endanger your career, and your health.
- do not take seriously those who write you to give up dreming to be a pilot because you are a crazy- psycho anti-social drug-addicted, and they you find them at the pub next door completely hammered after 15 pints of lagers.

Bye

Fully agree with your last night point Ricky. What a load of ill-informed rubbish is in this thread. How can pilots make some kind of distinction about cannabis when they're usually the first to go to the pub for a pint when the weather's below minima or hit the bars when they get uproute. Actually quite surprised attitudes like that still exist.

The aviation profession is one of the few which rightly shuns those who use illegal substances. Compulsory Drug Testing for all airline crews will surely be here before long, as it is in the armed forces of many nations.

The notion that aircrew regularly drink to excess is about 15 years out of date.

So wise up, druggies. You will probably be caught and then slung out on your ear.

Unless, that is, you manage to kill yourselves and your passengers first due to being under the influence of the brain-rotting toxins your stupid and illegal habit causes to be present in your bloodstream.

Dammit Man, you really need to chill out BEagle!! you seem to have such a high opinion of yourself, it sounds and looks like all you ever do is write posts on pprune, get a life. True drugs shouldn't be in this industry and that was a really stupid thing to do but that doesn't mean that this guy is a phsyco drug killer. For all we know you could be. You are judging this guy without knowing him where as you should really be looking at yourself, cos if i acted like you I wouldn't be too happy with myself. Get out and have some fun!!

PMG

Can I just draw your attention to the fact that the poster has just joined pprune - and may not even be who he says he is.....

For those of you who condone his actions, wouldn't it be just perfect for our industry now to see in tomorrow's paper that pilots think that it's ok to get stoned.

You know the media will not use the word "some" in a report so i suggest, regardless of your views, that you all give this topic a wide berth.

(In fact norman5 - you were dense enough to state that your medical is in 6 days and as your profile says, you are UK registered, and you give your status as a student pilot - it wouldn't take too much of a bright spark at the CAA Medical division to work out who you are! Hell, maybe your name is Norman!)

Drugs
 

I am afraid all wannabes' need to wise up a little bit.

Drinking and drug taking is no longer acceptable in aviation. End of story.

If you do indulge and get caught, not only will you end a short career, but if you happen to be near an aircraft you will probably go to prison.

Random drug testing is being introduced around the world.

As far as I am aware, THC (the active compound) will stay in the blood for around 28 days or so.

As they say in Oz, dont be a bloody idiot.

Sorry another bit of bad news.

It is us old codgers that make the rules and sit as judges.

Remember, its not called dope for no reason. Get hooked on JetA1 instead :E

will

I accept all your comments, i completely agree that it is stupid. Just to clear it up though, im not a "druggie", i hardly ever smoke it, just last night had lil too much to drink but thats no excuse. I wont be flying again for another 5 months anyway. I have also made up my mind that i wil not smoke it again, you are right that aviation is a professional career and i need to cop on which i have done today. I want it badly and i'm not gona let a stupid buzz get in the way, so thanks for pointing it out to me, and any others that may have been as stupid as me. I'm thinking of putting my medical off for a few months then maybe, will i be tested for it? This is something i want to learn from. Thanks guys and sorry for being so stupid.

Norman

Well, here is the States they do pre employment drug testing. Its done first and a clean result must come back before they will even continue with the interview. That being said, the junk you smoked is one of the things they test for, you come up positive on pre employment, well you are not going to get hired, once employed, they do random, you come up positive on that, you can be terminated. Most companies that do drug testing, and its not just transportation don't want to even deal with it, so you do, you don't work or not work at something you want to do. On your medical, here in the States they do ask, about it, if you get caught and don't inform the FAA, you Certificate goes away. Same for heavy drinking, they days of drinking breakfast, then go fly all day are gone.

"...im not a "druggie", i hardly ever smoke it..."

Those statements are mutually contradictory.

But good for you, deciding to kick the stupid and self-destroying habit which has ruined the lives of millions.

Whilst you're at it, do please let the police know who your supplier was...

Hello Norman, interesting discussion, particularly those drawing parallels with alcohol. With the mods permission, I'll add some archival threads from Medical and Health Forum.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ight=marijuana

cheers
Hawk

That's a great thread Hawk.. thanks for posting it. Certainly saves a lot of pointless discussion here.

I know we're trying to create a certain impression ;) here.. but to say pilots are teetotal is riduculous. Whilst i'm not a commercial pilot i've know many in the last 20 years ranging from senior Captains of national airlines to instructors to those a year or 2 into airline careers and i don't think i;ve ever met a non-drinker. I think the likes of Tristar's arguments would be much more credible if i they didn't make such proclamations.

The tone of some of you 'Do-gooders' is is unbelievable....

Norman, its not wise but i hardly reckon you're the only aviator at it. Don't make a habbit of it and don't take too much notice of some of the High and Mighty's on here!

I'm worried. No, genuinely people, I'm really worried.

I'm shocked that there are those who believe that having the 'odd' smoke every now and then is OK.

Guys, it has no place in aviation, whether private and professional.

Take it from somebody that is working with teenagers who dabble in this stuff - it's not the harmless weed you would oh-so-like it to be. It's serious sh*t. Long-term, it will mess with your head. It does have side-effects that are certainly non-codusive to a career in avation. It's an illegal drug for a bloody good reason.

And as for the comparison to alcohol - it's nonsense. I love a drink. I mean, I really, really love a drink. But 24hrs before a flight - not a prayer. 24hrs will give my body enough time to break down and discharge the alcohol. Can the same be said for the side-effects of a bit of ganja?

If you're serious about making it in this game, such a habit you cannot afford to have. And if I'm honest, I don't fancy sharing the skies, let alone a cockpit with those who think dabbling in drugs is OK.

Rant over.

Drugs and Booze
 

Have you people been living on a different planet lately?

In the past year at least 3 crew members have recieved jail sentences for being intoxicated in aircraft.

The newish regulations are a limit of 0.2 as laid down in the transport act. That basically means almost total abstinence for the majority of operating crew (working a normal shorthaul roster).

Any newbee wanting a career in this business must accept that the old idea of crews partying the night away has long gone.

I am not a do gooder, just a realist.

Drug taking of any kind is just not tolerated and whether or not you believe that pot is better or worse than alcohol has absolutely nothing to do with it. If you get caught you will loose your job and may end up in prison.

Will some of you please get off your high horses? Bloody hell, listening to some of you, you would think you were perfect. Yet ALL of you who drink socially or smoke are "dabbling" with drugs, even though you may not have formed a habbit.

However I think anyone who is flying under the influence of drugs should lose their jobs as a minimum........ this includes alchohol, which is a far more dangerous drug than many, and also far more widely used. I wonder why it is legal, and heaven knows why Nicoteen is legal?

I would presume its the amount of tax our beloved government is making from cigarettes and alchohol. Imagine the loss of £££ if one of the two was made illegal.

They should all be legal, really (though this isn't practical for many reasons at the mo') - thus taking a huge economy away from criminals. If people want to **** themselves that should be up to them - legal status isn't going to make much difference. In fact it's the duality of some being legal and some illegal that makes the legal ones seem ok (as so well illustrated by BlueskyRich's overt hypocrisy) and so you see our hospital wards full of such casualties.

Smoking in a public place though... that's another matter altogether!

It's not hypocrisy at all.

Alcohol is a legal stimulant, of which the side effects and consequences are very, very well known.

The same can be said for that other legal stimulant, nicotine.

Weed, dope etc is another matter. Whilst extensive research has been carried out, the side effects and consequences are not yet fully understood. It is an illegal substance for good reason and whilst that may or may not change in the future, in the here and now, it's an illegal substance.

For me, there are two issues - the first is that stimulants (of any flavour) have no place on the flightdeck. That's why there are limitations on alcohol consumption before duty.

The second is the attitude towards drug taking. OK, let's play devil's advocate. You say, hell, it's OK - the odd joint hurt wont hurt (despite the great unknown consequences). You're then raising the barrier. Somebody sniffs the odd line of powder. Do you draw the line there?

Everyones always going to have diffrent and varying opinions about this subject but I believe this country would be a worse place than it already is if all drugs where legal. People can choose to take drugs if they want, its their life. The law is in place to help prevent drug lords, gangs and suppliers profiting from drugs mainly by criminal activity. Its mainly suppliers that are prosecuted and the lone self abuser sent to rehab at the tax payers expense.

Agree with you 110%. Take of the penguin suit and swap it for a macdonalds one...disgraceful behaviour...

I'm not going to get into a debate here - partly because this isnt the place for it and partly because it's going to be an uphill struggle explaining things such as the fact that alcohol is not a stimulant, but a depressant. And also that known stimulants are regularly served on the flightdeck without creating any decline in performance... some would report an improvement in these times of fatigue and increased sector days.(re: "stimulants (of any flavour) have no place on the flightdeck"). And best not get me started on the economic and political reasons for the criminalisation of "mind altering substances" over the last century!

As for drawing line.. well that's up to individual's ability to make sure nothing he does adversely effects his ability to do the job. Personally I'd err on the side of abstinence - also i'm quite happy without these things. I certainly don't see how the occasional line of cocaine or even ingestion of heroin is any worse than the occasional night out on the booze.

Also with regard do the drawing the line theory.. would that not mean that you'd "draw the line" before alcohol, coffee, paracetamol etc? You've already admitted that you like to drink alcohol.

But as Wbryce says it's an emotive topic and opinions are bound to conflict. Whilst i respect all opinions it's important that they're backed up with knowledge and experience rather than, for example, what you read in the paper.

Aargh.. really didn't want to derail the thread, damn will-power... final post!

Wint3mute,

You're very right - it's an extremely emotive subject and hugely difficult to get a common consensus on.

As I said before, I've seen first hand the destructive consequences that substance misuse can have (and I do include alcohol in that too), and must agree that any point must be backed up with fact and experience, not some throw-away line printed in The Sun or Daily Mail.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree over that one!

As for getting the thread back on track and subject, I must say that it's unlikely the person in question will have a problem with their medical this time around.

Just don't ask the AME for a light....;)

Quite right BlueskyRich.. over and out on that subject!

AME's certainly won't test for drugs, not least because it would add £250 to the cost of the medical and also because there would be an outcry if tests were admininstered seeing as we're supposed to be professionals who should be trusted to do the right thing.

Not withstanding the attendant moral issue of "why is grass worse than booze?" the bottom line is one of the law.

You are permitted to work with a very small amount of alcohol in your bloodstream and alcohol is a legal drug.

You are permitted to smoke yourself to death with legal cigarettes, even though they have a very unpleasant effect upon your body's ability to extract and transport oxygen.

You are not allowed to have ANY marijuana in your bloodstream because it is an illegal drug.

Now, fair or not that is the law full stop. Those people who think that it's wrong that tobaco is legal and marijuana not may have a point - however, the answer is that if both these drugs were discovered for the first time this week it would probably be the case that neither would be made legal, not that marijuana would be likely to join tobaco on the "acceptable list"!

Drinking excess alcohol is legal - it may not be smart, but it's legal - unless you want to drive, fly, perform neurosurgery etc. You will find plenty of rules regarding alcohol use in SOPs and other aviation related documents. These tell you how much you can have and when to stop. If you can find similar advice in an SOP - telling you how much marijuana you can smoke and how long before flight you must stop - I would be interested to see it.

Remember, marijuana lingers in the system a lot longer than alcohol and an increasing weight of medical evidence suggests long term psychological harm can result from the use of even small amounts.

Think also of this - beer, wine and spirits are carefully assessed and graded so that you know exactly how much alcohol is in there. Therefore, with a little common sense, you can work out how much you've had and when to stop. I have yet to find a governing body for marijuana production which assesses and grades it for strength.

The bottom line is that it's not "do gooders" trying to stop people having fun, or recreational dope smokers enjoying something that they believe should be legal. The bottom line is that it's about the law, about safety and about keeping your sanity, your licence and your job.

Amen!
 

Amen!

Is al I can say, it's not how you feel or think about it, as a pilot, it is what the law says it is.

(how unpleasant it may be for some of us:( )

Hi
In medical French JAA, it is verified by analysing the urines.
I only tell you but the medical JAA tests aren't the same even if is medical JAA of one state is recognized by the others states without new exam.
For example for vision (visual), the french class 1 (you have a class1 if you ahave less than XXX dioptres) is harder than UK class
Hope this helps
Bye

shocking.
I pray myself or my family are never on a a/c with you regardless of how much u take. as for stopping your fun, you will be paid to be a professional, make the ppl in back feel safe, and i can assure you i would be the first to stand up and get of a a/c if i thought i was flying with u.

go work in IT or something. dick.

Substance abuse in the USA
 

" On your medical, here in the States they do ask, about it, if you get caught and don't inform the FAA, you Certificate goes away. Same for heavy drinking, they days of drinking breakfast, then go fly all day are gone "


The key here is going flying and abusing a substance at the same time. If you do have a substance abuse problem in the US, you can still obtain a medical from the AMCD provided you have cleaned up.

AL

We're trying to introduce a similar approach in the UK (following the US example, in fact) whereby relatives and colleagues etc are encouraged to put individuals forward who may be developing a problem without fear of them losing their job or licence. A more open approach should save lives and careers, training costs etc and of course those who do come through rehabilitated are much better for it. May be a while till such a culture is established judging by some of the ignorati in this thread!

BLACKPOOL TOILETS
 

HEY BRO.....COOL MAN....YOU SHOULD FLY A....HELI MAN GET TANGLED ON THOSE TREES.......I BET YOU WILL SMOKE IT WITH YOUR HELI.....SUNNY,DOPE STAYS IN YOUR BLOOD STRAEM MORE THAN ANY HARD DRUGS....IF YOU ARE SNORTING IT WASHES OFF INA MONTH EXCEPT...YOU DONT SMELL YOUR ENGINE BURNING....SOME COMPANY TAKE ASAMPLES OF THE HAIR...THEN YOU HAD IT...LICENCE AND ALL....NOW YOU WHY FRDIE AND MUTU SHAVED THEIR HEADS.....BEFORE THEIR TESTS.....SMOKE SOME CIGAR AND BE A REAL HAVANA ROMEO.....EASY...DO THE RIGHT THING....LUX

AND BY THE WAY LABOUR PARTY CONFRENCE TOILETS FOUND FULL OF TRACES OF HARD DRUGS....DONT TELL ME YOU WORK FOR THEM EVICTING 70 YEAR OLD....THEY ALSO LEAGALISED CANNABIS...TO GRADE TWO......KICK IT...OR ...ELSE

I had a little chat with my friend Foamy the Squirrel the other day and this is what he had to say about drugs.....

http://www.lookatentertainment.com/v/v-1706.htm

Norman actually admitted to having too much to drink AND smoking a spliff...... which is, in my limited experience, a common situation. People often seem to indulge in both at the same time.... bad news:eek:

Echoing previous posts, the THC found in cannabis is present in fatty cells for a considerable time after consumption. From an RAF point of view, they're now coming round to testing using hair samples. Meaning basically you're screwed, to be blunt (pun intended).

As for your opinion regarding BEagle lightening up Paddy. Might I suggest you ask around a few people on these forums regarding his biography. Might make for interesting reading compared to your 'wealth of experience.' Tw@t