Serious Drugs.can He Make It?
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hey Snoop & Spartacan
thanks a lot for this info. All I am trying to do is help him out and show him a better way of life.
He told me couple of days back that he has consumed Mushroom intotal three times in the past 12 months. Now, I honestly dont know what the consequences would be if he takes takes the Class 1 now, but I have asked him to give it sometime and go for it later.
I havent been checked for drug usage when I took medical 1 F.A.A. I also have a Class 2 for C.A.S.A and even here, I dont remember giving them blood sample other than some urine.
Anyways, as i said, I will ask him to defer the medical and take it atleast 6-8 months from now. Any other advise you gotta give him?
thanx again for sharing the info
Richie
thanks a lot for this info. All I am trying to do is help him out and show him a better way of life.
He told me couple of days back that he has consumed Mushroom intotal three times in the past 12 months. Now, I honestly dont know what the consequences would be if he takes takes the Class 1 now, but I have asked him to give it sometime and go for it later.
I havent been checked for drug usage when I took medical 1 F.A.A. I also have a Class 2 for C.A.S.A and even here, I dont remember giving them blood sample other than some urine.
Anyways, as i said, I will ask him to defer the medical and take it atleast 6-8 months from now. Any other advise you gotta give him?
thanx again for sharing the info
Richie
If the guy's going to give up illegal substances I really don't consider it necessary to wait for two years. Give it a few months but be sure you are not going to mix it with flying.
The only drugs Basil's done are the usual nic & alc and bad bast*rds they are too! Nic's extremely addictive & alc's got poor ol' Bas into all sorts of trouble
- must pack it in one day 
The only drugs Basil's done are the usual nic & alc and bad bast*rds they are too! Nic's extremely addictive & alc's got poor ol' Bas into all sorts of trouble
- must pack it in one day
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Gidday Basil
Merci for your post. He "isnt" goint to give up drugs. He already has and it has been couple of months now. Then again, I asked him to take the medical in 6-8 months so that his blood is somewhat "free" of those drugs and chances to find out about those in his body is minimal.
Thanx again for your valuable advise. I really appreciate your help in helping me to assist someone else' life.
Richie
Merci for your post. He "isnt" goint to give up drugs. He already has and it has been couple of months now. Then again, I asked him to take the medical in 6-8 months so that his blood is somewhat "free" of those drugs and chances to find out about those in his body is minimal.
Thanx again for your valuable advise. I really appreciate your help in helping me to assist someone else' life.
Richie
Hi Richie-rich,
My best advice would be that you continue to care for your friends interests. Help him get medical treatment as and when he needs it.
There's a reason why he has been taking drugs and he really does need to find that out.
Thanks for being a good friend to him,
Spartacan.
My best advice would be that you continue to care for your friends interests. Help him get medical treatment as and when he needs it.
There's a reason why he has been taking drugs and he really does need to find that out.
Thanks for being a good friend to him,
Spartacan.
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Dear Spartacan
I view flying to be a noble profession. So, when someone asks me to help him out, I would be more than happy to do so, provided it's within my capability.
Basil, please check your pvt message, Sir.
Oh 7 Spartacan and Snoop, do you guys know if they "do" check for presence of drugs in Class 1? I was never told that they would test that when I did my Class 1 and all I had to worry about was my Blood Pressure. This is my last question and I wont bug you guys with any other question. I promise.
Must not forget to thank you guys. This really helped me , trust me. Super Duper people you all are.
Richie
I view flying to be a noble profession. So, when someone asks me to help him out, I would be more than happy to do so, provided it's within my capability.
Basil, please check your pvt message, Sir.
Oh 7 Spartacan and Snoop, do you guys know if they "do" check for presence of drugs in Class 1? I was never told that they would test that when I did my Class 1 and all I had to worry about was my Blood Pressure. This is my last question and I wont bug you guys with any other question. I promise.
Must not forget to thank you guys. This really helped me , trust me. Super Duper people you all are.
Richie
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As far as I am aware, and please anybody correct me on this if I am wrong, The urine test is there to detect the presence of protein in the urine. I think it may be something to do with checking for diabetes, but I would not bet on it!
See my original post:
>>4) Substance abuse (within the preceding two years) including positive drug test results, misuse of substances that would interfere with the person's ability to perform the duties of a pilots, or record of drink / drug convictions<<
>>4) Substance abuse (within the preceding two years) including positive drug test results, misuse of substances that would interfere with the person's ability to perform the duties of a pilots, or record of drink / drug convictions<<
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Snoop....
the very simplified basics of mid stream urine testing for the Pilot medical
The urine sample is commonly used to detect Glucose Levels ... theoretically, any glucose or Keytones in the urine indicate an unsuccessfull attempt by your body to fully use, remove or store basic sugar componants in your body... It should not show up in the urine.
the second reason is for Protien levels... most protiens are large molocules and shouldnt pass through the kidneys... so a positive reading indicates the kidneys arent doing their job effectively.
Now the reason could be as simple as dehydration or a mild urinary tract infection, the ladies can have positive readings if menstrating at the time of testing as blood contains protiens, through to an early indication of worse kidney problems for which the doctor will order further testing for.
Urine can also be used to check for a range of drug metabolites (the componants or byproducts of other substances put into the body and broken down).
Definition of a Drug....
noun.. any substance that affects the structure or functioning of a living organism... (Oxford Concise Medical
Dictionary)
Commonly cannabis sativa among others are checked. Most "recreational" drug metabolites for example will be eliminated at the first urination after ingestion. This of course is dependant on the mixing agents (very few street drugs are pure), the timing of ingestion, injection or application.
Rohypnol is a very useful drug as an anticonvulsive, but a side effect is temporary amnesia, thus it has gained popularity as a "date rape" drug. It is metabolised quickly and its metabolites dissappear with the "morning pee". It makes it very hard indeed to identify if a drink has been spiked.
Long term marajuana use from a very early age has been linked to various adolecent psycosis conditions, depression, and given the strength of the varying varieties available today are up to 10 times more potent than a few years back. Flashbacks are apparently more common and again, it depends on cutdown substances.
The mushrooms are highly varied, and different responses within the species and subspecies are just as varied. Cooking, drying, processing and mixing all produce variations in response. Flashback similar to those associated with LSD are not uncommon. For those in Cane Toad infested areas, the toxin produced by the glands on the wartlike glands on a toads head, is also an hallucinogen... as is nutmeg...
Alcohol is the most widely abused drug of choice... and the results of abuse are both costly and terrifying.
I wouldnt like a captain or co pilot who has an unresonable addiction to any substance... flying with a coffee addict who has missed his / her coffee can indeed be an ordeal!
the very simplified basics of mid stream urine testing for the Pilot medical
The urine sample is commonly used to detect Glucose Levels ... theoretically, any glucose or Keytones in the urine indicate an unsuccessfull attempt by your body to fully use, remove or store basic sugar componants in your body... It should not show up in the urine.
the second reason is for Protien levels... most protiens are large molocules and shouldnt pass through the kidneys... so a positive reading indicates the kidneys arent doing their job effectively.
Now the reason could be as simple as dehydration or a mild urinary tract infection, the ladies can have positive readings if menstrating at the time of testing as blood contains protiens, through to an early indication of worse kidney problems for which the doctor will order further testing for.
Urine can also be used to check for a range of drug metabolites (the componants or byproducts of other substances put into the body and broken down).
Definition of a Drug....
noun.. any substance that affects the structure or functioning of a living organism... (Oxford Concise Medical
Dictionary)
Commonly cannabis sativa among others are checked. Most "recreational" drug metabolites for example will be eliminated at the first urination after ingestion. This of course is dependant on the mixing agents (very few street drugs are pure), the timing of ingestion, injection or application.
Rohypnol is a very useful drug as an anticonvulsive, but a side effect is temporary amnesia, thus it has gained popularity as a "date rape" drug. It is metabolised quickly and its metabolites dissappear with the "morning pee". It makes it very hard indeed to identify if a drink has been spiked.
Long term marajuana use from a very early age has been linked to various adolecent psycosis conditions, depression, and given the strength of the varying varieties available today are up to 10 times more potent than a few years back. Flashbacks are apparently more common and again, it depends on cutdown substances.
The mushrooms are highly varied, and different responses within the species and subspecies are just as varied. Cooking, drying, processing and mixing all produce variations in response. Flashback similar to those associated with LSD are not uncommon. For those in Cane Toad infested areas, the toxin produced by the glands on the wartlike glands on a toads head, is also an hallucinogen... as is nutmeg...
Alcohol is the most widely abused drug of choice... and the results of abuse are both costly and terrifying.
I wouldnt like a captain or co pilot who has an unresonable addiction to any substance... flying with a coffee addict who has missed his / her coffee can indeed be an ordeal!
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Northern Chique
Thanx for ur reply. I hope you have gone through other posts, but my friend told me last night ( i was trying to make him understand a lot of things) that he has consumed mushies 4 times in total (four!!!) . Would you call him a mushy addict or a "casual" drug addict? all consumed in the past 12 months.
Waiting eagerly to hear from you.
Richie
Thanx for ur reply. I hope you have gone through other posts, but my friend told me last night ( i was trying to make him understand a lot of things) that he has consumed mushies 4 times in total (four!!!) . Would you call him a mushy addict or a "casual" drug addict? all consumed in the past 12 months.
Waiting eagerly to hear from you.
Richie
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I think that regular use of cannabis is incompatible with professional flying. Alcohol use is reasonably quantifiable - we tend to drink recognised measures and there are rules of thumb that exist to tell you roughly what period of time to allow for the effects to have dissipated. The same rules of thumb don't exist for cannabis. From personal experience, I think that the effects of cannabis last longer. You can be reasonably confident that a few beers on Saturday night won't affect your performance on Monday morning, but can you say the same of a few spliffs smoked on Saturday night?
Having said that, it is important not to lump all illegal drugs together as some kind of life-destroying evil bogeyman. I and many of my friends have sampled reasonable quantities of all manner of illegal drugs over the years and we all enter our thirties as responsible professionals. A few of us remain unhappily addicted to tobacco.
Having said that, it is important not to lump all illegal drugs together as some kind of life-destroying evil bogeyman. I and many of my friends have sampled reasonable quantities of all manner of illegal drugs over the years and we all enter our thirties as responsible professionals. A few of us remain unhappily addicted to tobacco.
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Riche Rich
Forgot to mention that they also do a blood test, this is for Haemoglobin, which I think is to check that you will stop bleeding if you cut yourself at altitude, although it would look like Northern Chique is the person to ask!
Northern Chique,
Thanks for that. When I had mine done it was dipped onto what looked like pH paper and run through a machine - results in seconds! Happy to say my innards seemed to be processing fine!
Forgot to mention that they also do a blood test, this is for Haemoglobin, which I think is to check that you will stop bleeding if you cut yourself at altitude, although it would look like Northern Chique is the person to ask!
Northern Chique,
Thanks for that. When I had mine done it was dipped onto what looked like pH paper and run through a machine - results in seconds! Happy to say my innards seemed to be processing fine!
PPRuNe Handmaiden
richie-rich,
Without trying to sound harsh but I would suggest to your mate that he goes without any chemical comforters for 12 months. Why so long? From what I am reading he seems to have an addictive personality and sadly, that is not commensurate with flying. 12 months would be more than enough to flush any greeblies out of his system and more importantly, see that he's mentally tough enough to go without.
I am no medical expert, QDM and Northern Chique are the ones to chat too. (NC is also a professional pilot, don't know about QDM).
It's a good thing he wants to straighten out and I hope this gives him the goal to achieve that.
Without trying to sound harsh but I would suggest to your mate that he goes without any chemical comforters for 12 months. Why so long? From what I am reading he seems to have an addictive personality and sadly, that is not commensurate with flying. 12 months would be more than enough to flush any greeblies out of his system and more importantly, see that he's mentally tough enough to go without.
I am no medical expert, QDM and Northern Chique are the ones to chat too. (NC is also a professional pilot, don't know about QDM).
It's a good thing he wants to straighten out and I hope this gives him the goal to achieve that.
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thanx guys.....i will pass this onto him. i think 12 months is a reassonable time for someone to "wash-out" such artificial comforters from one's body. however, when i had my class 1 done, they didnt ask for any blood sample. I have a Class 1 F.A.A and that didnt include that in the list.
neways, thanx again for ur replies.
Richie
p.s- reasonable*
neways, thanx again for ur replies.
Richie
p.s- reasonable*
Plastic PPRuNer
Ritchie, "..i think 12 months is a reassonable time for someone to "wash-out" such artificial comforters from one's body."
I think that you have missed redsnail's excellent point. It isn't to avoid detection, but to see that he/she can deal with life without grumbling about missing mind-altering substances. If he's worried about it then he's misusing. If he can't happily do without then he's an addict.
I think that you have missed redsnail's excellent point. It isn't to avoid detection, but to see that he/she can deal with life without grumbling about missing mind-altering substances. If he's worried about it then he's misusing. If he can't happily do without then he's an addict.
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Mac The Knife
Thank you for your post. I suppose we all agreed on the point that he has realized that he has been doing the "dont do it" things and stopped all sorts of drugs couple of months back. He then came to me couple of weeks back and i immediately posted the topic here at pprune. I am not in doubt about his intention to change himself, druguse-wise. He surely havent touched that ever since such realization came to him.
I didnt want to bother you guys with this issue anymore, but it now appears that i am headed towards quagmire as time goes by. Are you suggesting that the A.M.E wont bother that he has drugs in his body and also that he wants to change (should he/she find out about it, god knows how) or would the Doc refuse his medical the very instant he finds out about it on grounds of finding illegal drugs in his body? I am sure our Paramedic Chique might have something to add in this.
Knife, thanx again for ur reply. take care guys.
Richie
Thank you for your post. I suppose we all agreed on the point that he has realized that he has been doing the "dont do it" things and stopped all sorts of drugs couple of months back. He then came to me couple of weeks back and i immediately posted the topic here at pprune. I am not in doubt about his intention to change himself, druguse-wise. He surely havent touched that ever since such realization came to him.
I didnt want to bother you guys with this issue anymore, but it now appears that i am headed towards quagmire as time goes by. Are you suggesting that the A.M.E wont bother that he has drugs in his body and also that he wants to change (should he/she find out about it, god knows how) or would the Doc refuse his medical the very instant he finds out about it on grounds of finding illegal drugs in his body? I am sure our Paramedic Chique might have something to add in this.
Knife, thanx again for ur reply. take care guys.
Richie
Plastic PPRuNer
After 2/12 clean there will be no detectable drug residuals in his blood or urine. If he/she has no convictions for possession and has not consulted any medical practitioners for worries/symptoms of misuse/abuse he has technically nothing to declare. Nevertheless, if he wants to take up flying as a career he needs to come to the absolute understanding that further chemical use is not an option - now or ever again.
But on the basis of what you tell us, it sounds as though there's a lot of concern here and I think quite rightly. I think your chum would be well advised to phone Narcotics Anonymous and arrange a meeting with one of their very able counsellors to discuss the whole matter.
But on the basis of what you tell us, it sounds as though there's a lot of concern here and I think quite rightly. I think your chum would be well advised to phone Narcotics Anonymous and arrange a meeting with one of their very able counsellors to discuss the whole matter.
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Best advice already given, but as we are on the subject, you can detect these drugs in the hair so that historical record can go back some way. If you are going to go hairless, don't forget to shave yer nuts.
A flatmate of mine used to do pre drug-trial medicals back in London. My mate would screen for all sorts of stuff, but if cannabis was detected (and you cannot hide it with these Internet teas and the like) they would ignore it. Anything stronger would be disqualifying.
Quite a few years ago, it might have changed since.
A flatmate of mine used to do pre drug-trial medicals back in London. My mate would screen for all sorts of stuff, but if cannabis was detected (and you cannot hide it with these Internet teas and the like) they would ignore it. Anything stronger would be disqualifying.
Quite a few years ago, it might have changed since.
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RR - Im probably not the best person to ask in so far as my opinon on recreation drug taking is somewhat biased, given my line of work... however I cant see the point in putting something in your body by choice which may over time destroy it.. fast or slow...
Thre following comments are purely my own summations and gleaned from experience around Australia. Take into account when drawing your own conclusions, your friends environment, your social habits and the society you live within.
But Ive found one thing holds true any where in the world ... consequences are always paid in the end..
For your friend... honesty is always the best policy... tell the doc, and the doc will and is obliged to keep an eye on him. The mushys are always a worry, as I said earlier, different species, different times of the growth cycle all play a part in the end effect produced... Occasional pschycosis is found, thus may rule your friend out of the medical parametres.. but this is an issue to take up with the medical officer. They would be much more familiar with the range of species and results of the various mushies available in your area... the gold tops and blue angels mushies here are well known for producing hallucinations, whereas some others are much more systemic depressants than hallucinogens.
They also are destructive on the various internal organs which have to break down the various componants and chemicals in the mushy, and the occasional person has developed an allergy to fungi which can be life threatening. There are a few objective papers written on the mushy topic.
As an emergency bush medicine, Im sure they have their place as does the infamous marajuana.... (for example clinical treatment and pain relief for chronic pain and terminal disease patients) .. Used in the correct manner, its a low risk, benifical natural medicine.
Where I do get upset, it people hiding behind results after a nasty outcome.
Alcohol abuse is the worst offender.. in most court systems it seems on the surface, if one gets out of control on booze its justifyable and often a person ends up with a lesser penalty.. This illustrates another point.. often worse penalties are handed out for illegal drug use with the same result.
So illegitimate drug use is often frowned on more than the legal varieties even if used less often.
I would put your friend into the social recreational user class.. and sometimes, these are at higher risk of something going horribly wrong. These are the guys and gals who either buy a bad line... or cut with something nasty or have been mixing their highs...
Two months without a mushy isnt long in the scheme of things.. now if youd said two years.. that would be different matter...
If your friend has you, and his whole support network effectivley set up, then he should do just fine. But I cant stress enough, he has to change his social habits... often a slow afternoon... a few quiet beers, a bit of friendly happy chat and music will put him in the mood for another happy / mellow fix, depending on his habit / reaction drive...
What I am refering to is the pleasurable re-enforcing of good time + weed or mushies = better time...
He may just be able to generate the same internal chemical response by self achievement.
I believe the true addict has become dependant on the chemical comfort response gained from drug use. The body in turn tolerates the toxins, and becomes adaptive.... take it away, and it goes into combat mode... or your classic withdrawal... A true addict is self destructive and is controlled emotionally and often financially by their drug of choice. Their social and family (if they are around) become victims of the abuse even though they may not be particiating in the consumption of it.
By the sound of it, just change the social habits and you may have the social drug use pinged for good in which case he may end up with a full or conditional medical (if you have such beasties there) or a conditional delay..ie wait for a bit.. It wont stop him studying though!
When he attends the medical he will get a thorough check up into the bargin, and will probably find out he is a healthy, normal person... with choices...
Thre following comments are purely my own summations and gleaned from experience around Australia. Take into account when drawing your own conclusions, your friends environment, your social habits and the society you live within.
But Ive found one thing holds true any where in the world ... consequences are always paid in the end..
For your friend... honesty is always the best policy... tell the doc, and the doc will and is obliged to keep an eye on him. The mushys are always a worry, as I said earlier, different species, different times of the growth cycle all play a part in the end effect produced... Occasional pschycosis is found, thus may rule your friend out of the medical parametres.. but this is an issue to take up with the medical officer. They would be much more familiar with the range of species and results of the various mushies available in your area... the gold tops and blue angels mushies here are well known for producing hallucinations, whereas some others are much more systemic depressants than hallucinogens.
They also are destructive on the various internal organs which have to break down the various componants and chemicals in the mushy, and the occasional person has developed an allergy to fungi which can be life threatening. There are a few objective papers written on the mushy topic.
As an emergency bush medicine, Im sure they have their place as does the infamous marajuana.... (for example clinical treatment and pain relief for chronic pain and terminal disease patients) .. Used in the correct manner, its a low risk, benifical natural medicine.
Where I do get upset, it people hiding behind results after a nasty outcome.
Alcohol abuse is the worst offender.. in most court systems it seems on the surface, if one gets out of control on booze its justifyable and often a person ends up with a lesser penalty.. This illustrates another point.. often worse penalties are handed out for illegal drug use with the same result.
So illegitimate drug use is often frowned on more than the legal varieties even if used less often.
I would put your friend into the social recreational user class.. and sometimes, these are at higher risk of something going horribly wrong. These are the guys and gals who either buy a bad line... or cut with something nasty or have been mixing their highs...
Two months without a mushy isnt long in the scheme of things.. now if youd said two years.. that would be different matter...
If your friend has you, and his whole support network effectivley set up, then he should do just fine. But I cant stress enough, he has to change his social habits... often a slow afternoon... a few quiet beers, a bit of friendly happy chat and music will put him in the mood for another happy / mellow fix, depending on his habit / reaction drive...
What I am refering to is the pleasurable re-enforcing of good time + weed or mushies = better time...
He may just be able to generate the same internal chemical response by self achievement.
I believe the true addict has become dependant on the chemical comfort response gained from drug use. The body in turn tolerates the toxins, and becomes adaptive.... take it away, and it goes into combat mode... or your classic withdrawal... A true addict is self destructive and is controlled emotionally and often financially by their drug of choice. Their social and family (if they are around) become victims of the abuse even though they may not be particiating in the consumption of it.
By the sound of it, just change the social habits and you may have the social drug use pinged for good in which case he may end up with a full or conditional medical (if you have such beasties there) or a conditional delay..ie wait for a bit.. It wont stop him studying though!
When he attends the medical he will get a thorough check up into the bargin, and will probably find out he is a healthy, normal person... with choices...