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Merged Diabetes Thread

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Merged Diabetes Thread

Old 15th Aug 2018, 15:35
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bloke at work has just done it.

Chicken salad instead of crew meals, omelettes and no bread, rice, pasta or root vegetables especially potatoes in any form. Lump of meat and veggies/salad for family meals.

Got his morning glucose level down from 7.5 to 5.3 and lost weight 5 kg to boot in 16 days.

His son is looking healthier as well for the family change in diet.

Got caught on his medical and was given 4 weeks to sort it by diet or go onto the pills with 2 months off to stabilise things. Medics say in three months time he will get a OGTT after a HbA1c test and if that's ok it will have never happened and won't go on his record.
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Old 15th Aug 2018, 18:43
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Originally Posted by 3db
Driftdown,
Are you on Insulin? I know most T1 diabetics are treated with insulin. I have looked at the CAA web site, but found the information confusing - hence came here for practicle guidence.
Yes I am on insulin via an insulin pump.

When I was diagnosed 2 years ago aged 24, I already had a EASA Class 1 issued by the UK CAA. My understanding is that to join the protocol, you have have already been holding a medical wether it a class 1 or 2. That may have changed recently after a change to the rules regarding initial medicals for people with HIV.

My AME was hopeless in trying to find out information on how to get my medical back, I called the CAA and they told me to speak to my AME. Useless! I found the email address for the CAA medical department (on their website, I canít remember it off the top of my head) and finally someone called me 2 days later and gave me guidance on how to regain my Class 1. Once I had gathered all the required data, I submitted it to the CAA for review. A couple of days later I was asked to book an appointment with the diabetes consultant who runs the protocol with the CAA. He reviewed my results and gave a recommendation to reinstate my medical. It arrived in the post a week later.

The process took 4 months in total.

If if you would like specific info then drop me a PM.
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Old 15th Aug 2018, 21:48
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Originally Posted by tescoapp
bloke at work has just done it.

Chicken salad instead of crew meals, omelettes and no bread, rice, pasta or root vegetables especially potatoes in any form. Lump of meat and veggies/salad for family meals.

Got his morning glucose level down from 7.5 to 5.3 and lost weight 5 kg to boot in 16 days.

His son is looking healthier as well for the family change in diet.

Got caught on his medical and was given 4 weeks to sort it by diet or go onto the pills with 2 months off to stabilise things. Medics say in three months time he will get a OGTT after a HbA1c test and if that's ok it will have never happened and won't go on his record.
good on him but he will have been taken tablets to regulate the pancreas because to do it on your own is not possible, medically anyway.........
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Old 15th Aug 2018, 23:03
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Nope if you take one of those tablet's your grounded for a period until they can see your stable and not prone to going sugar low. Even if you then come off them again. One shot of insulin and it's three months grounded minimum.

Hence being given time to control it via diet. Medically I don't think they have a clue with class ii diabetes. It seems to me there are multiple things going on and various conditions which give the same symptoms. Currently they have a one size fits all treatment plan. Who is to say his condition is anything to do with his pancreas. Insulin resistance, fatty liver leaking glucose due night time hormones.

To me the recommended diet is just throwing fuel on the fire while trying to put it out.

Most doctors seem pretty clueless about it to be honest.

​​​​​
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Old 16th Aug 2018, 12:07
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Tescoapp,
Totally agree. I don't think diates is understood by doctors. As you say, I think multipl things are going on and the answer is tabs/insulin. I think it is far more complex than that. However, can only do as the doctors ask for aviation.
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Old 16th Aug 2018, 13:07
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It depends on which Ame you talk to what the plan is

​​​​​​Our ame is a mid 40's doctor that fly's himself. And if he is on our company aircraft normally he comes on the jumpseat with company permission. Multicrew he is more than happy to play the are they going to die in the next year card.... No let's have a play.

He has 30 odd pre and 20 confirmed diabetes on his books. Of that 20 he has got 10 off the drugs. He is class ii himself I was/am a pre.

Give the zero carbs a shot you might be surprised at the results.

We are all different apparently and what works for me might not work for you. But the extreme low carbs is a good start. I did a test every 30mins for 18 hours duty day and had 5 spikes to 10 with the area under the graph average 6.1 now it never goes above 7 and average 5.3.

The standard treatment he has given up on as utter bollocks. And that's 40 pilots who are working without stabbing themselves every approach for a blood test without a multicrew restriction.

What gets me is the negative down right hostility of most medics to giving the middle finger to the national treatment plan. If what you doing works why give the person ear ache because they are not eating 60% carbs as per the guidelines.
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 10:26
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The Type 2 appears to be very weight connected. The Medics are a regimented lot, self focused and will not shift easily from dubious positions. Mate of mine , closing in on 100kg was diagnosed with type 2. Completely mishandled by the Company Medic & given no management.The statins & some other drug nearly killed him. He did drop to 97kg though. He ditched the medicine but was forced into early retirement for other reasons. Bronchitis and pneumonia nearly saw him off in the first year of retirement but he dropped weight to 85kg. He hardly ate during a further round of bronchitis the following winter & a near starvation regime caused by lack of apetite saw him drop to 78kg. He is holding now at 75kg. Completely clear of type2. He suggests that the periods of starvation probably reversed the condition. We could draw a graph showing 100kg to start opposite type 2 with medication. No change for a while & then ditches the medication. But, with time & starvation routine, very steady weight loss & final result of no type 2. He looks better now than I have ever seen him & still pulls the chicks.

Medics ? Shame on the ones who haven't a clue & give the good ones' a bad name.
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 18:05
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I have flown with experienced airline pilots who were previously diagnosed with Diabetes in Europe and Flydubai mostly on approved pills or on silly diets, it's possible, but not %100
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Old 17th Aug 2018, 22:35
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I have just been told my type 2 is in remission, backed up with test results up the ying yang.
Nothing to do with diets*, just 5 months of manual labour, sunshine, fresh air and 11kg lost.

All at the UK's minimum wage too.

* OK Daily intake limited to X2 sandwiches and 1 banana plus single meal at night. Litres of water too....
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Old 18th Aug 2018, 11:33
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glad rag, pleased it is working for you.

When I was diagnosed T2 by an AME in 2004 I weighed 127kg and am 1.85m tall (well overweight) I have lost 25-30kg over time (initially fast, then slowly), but my blood readings increased. I was then told to reduce my alcohol intake, which was around 30units a week, mainly real ale (Beer). I now consume around 5 units a month, blood readings increased (also see #1 below). Then told to cut carbs from my diet, I did, blood readings shot up, reintroduced carbs and they slowly came down. Next I was told to take more exercise, I initially started walking, now have an allotment and garden. Blood reading no significant change. As Tescoapp said, diabetes is far more complex than medics think. I feel this could explain why something works for somebody, but doesn’t work for another person. Started insulin 6 weeks ago, blood readings now coming down towards normal, not there yet, but well on the way. While some of this is from memory, most is not. I have a spreadsheet for the last 12 years with all my readings (Weight, Blood pressure, pulse, fasting mmol/L and HbA1c when that test became available).

As for a no carb diet to reverse diabetes, I don't think the NHS would spend 20% of the entire budget on diabetics (T1 & T2) if such a simple solution was available.

#1. Real ale has large quantities of Vitamin B in it, as the yeast is alive, to produce the secondary fermentation in the pub barrel. Long term use of Metformin (the drug often given to T2 diabetics) requires you take a vitamin B supplement (its in the small print on the leaflet with the box), but nobody told me this. I did not realise this, when I reduce my beer intake. I developed a problem with my eyes, the nerve controlling them could not get the 2 images to merge, as the consultant said at the UK hospital, I was effectively blind in one eye. My Turkish wife was very concerned, so we went to Turkey to see a Turkish consultant. He said he comes across this two or sometimes three times a year, suggested I take a Turkish Vitamin B supplement – a brand very common in Turkey, particularly for diabetics. Within 4 days, I could see an improvement, within 10 days I was back to normal. On returning to the UK I was still under the local consultant. She looked at the tables and told me to stop taking them immediately. The quantities of vitamins was far too high to be safe, I was likely damaging my body. I stopped, eye problem returned within 4 weeks, re-started the Turkish Vitamin B and within 2 weeks things were back to normal. That was about 6 years ago, I have been taking the Vitamin B supplement since then with no obvious side effects (blood tests put my Vitamin B levels at the high end of normal, occasionally just, and I mean just, above normal). For information each tablet I take contains 250mg B1, 250mg B6 and 1mg B12. I take 1 per day. This is far higher than the Vitamin B tablets you can get in the UK, at least the tablets I have looked at. Your mileage might vary.
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Old 28th Aug 2018, 17:13
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Diabetes

Hey folks, PPL(a) and PPL(h) here. So I have been on these forums for almost 20 years. Never went beyond PPL because I am a type 2 diabetic. Now I was told that the rules had changed a couple of years back.

Can I as a 14 year type 2 diabetic pass a class 1 medical and go on for my ATPL? What are the restrictions?

Various forum information seems to be a few years old with nothing up to date.
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Old 28th Aug 2018, 18:43
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Best thing you can do now is to look for Part-MED on EASA website. There you will find all the information you need.
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Old 28th Aug 2018, 19:09
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Read the works of Dr Jason Fung on Type 2 diabetes.Eye opening.
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Old 28th Aug 2018, 20:37
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https://www.caa.co.uk/Aeromedical-Ex...e-material-GM/

Seems like Type 1 diabetes will be unfit, but Type 2 can pass subject to tests and you have to prove that you have good control of your blood sugar. However, p.12 of the certification guidance mentions pilots with insulin-dependency can still get a Class 1 provided they can demonstrate excellent control of the condition. Just my 2 cents after a quick scan. Might be best to consult an AME for the final word on the matter?
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 16:21
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I've just got a blood cholesterol level of 5.4, and a Hba1c of 49.doctors want to redo the test next week as the latter had gone up significantly together with my weight.

Is there anything other than fasting, diet and vigorous exercise. Are there any foods or over the counter medicines proven to lower the later score?

Thanks in advance
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 16:27
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Tonker.Read what Dr Jason Fung has to say on the matter.He is reversing and curing people with Type 2.
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 17:18
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I will, thanks
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 19:46
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tonker. Less than 48 HbA1c mmol/mol is usually considered good control, you are very marginally outside this. As the test is backward looking over 2-3months, I doubt you will see much change in a week. However, for me I can say the following: Eating liver - very bad news on 2 occasions, large spike in blood/glucose readings next day, I don't eat it anymore. Drinking spirits (only whisky (made from Barley), Raki (made from grapes) or Ouzo (grape I think)) in very small amounts, about half a standard UK pub measure, seems to reduce my mmol/L (blood/Glucose) readings the next morning by around 15-20%. If you increase consumption to a standard pub measure, it seems to have the oposite effect. Other spirits, like brandy increase my readings next day. I have no logical explanation for this, but it is repeatable 80-90% of the time. Good luck!
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 21:10
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Thanks very much. Big relief that livers bad news. I’ll cut booze out entirely. Today I’ve eaten 600 calories, and walked 8,000 steps around the Lizard! Needs must
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Old 30th Aug 2018, 10:17
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I fly on insulin with a UK CAA medical. For class 1 and class 2 the protocol is exactly the same. Only thing is that hou have an OML on the class 1 and an OSL on the class 2 (you can get rid of this after a checkflight)

You will be limited to operate only on planes that are registered in the participating memberstates (UK/IRL/AUT)

I know that the CAA is not able to give initial medicals (for now) to people on insulin. So unless you had an easa medical before it will be though.

as far as Iam aware the FAA is now also accepting pilots on insulin. https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...betes_insulin/

Good luck!
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