Pilot suffers cardiac arrest in flight
The assumptions and inappropriate statements in this thread are unbecoming of any human being and completely unacceptable from this poor man's colleagues. We have no idea of his lot in life and the 300 lb comment came from an unconfirmed source, making it specious at best and unworthy of consideration at this early stage. As for his age, people should remember that a good portion of the airline pilot population in the US had their pensions decimated in the post 9/11 meltdown. He may have had no choice and if so, he was not alone.
FFS people have some compassion. Often in times like these, family members will look to the internet to see what's been said. How would you like it if your family was reading such insensitive things about YOU!
FFS people have some compassion. Often in times like these, family members will look to the internet to see what's been said. How would you like it if your family was reading such insensitive things about YOU!
Last edited by J.O.; 27th Sep 2013 at 23:58.
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I am sure the FO would have handled the landing just fine because he had experience. Not so sure about the 200 hr wonders. Having a qualified pilot in back non reving was a nice advantage but I am sure he would have been fine.
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With all the speculation about obesity, other than a single post (unless I missed one) do we have any confirmation of his weight?
Last edited by Murexway; 28th Sep 2013 at 00:44.
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According to what I've heard from various sources
300lbs appears to be correct.
Slightly off topic but in Japan the highest permitted
BMI by JCAB is 30. I used to laugh it off as being
far too conservative but lately I think they're pretty
much on the mark. Over the 30 is definitely risky if
visceral fat is also taken into consideration.
300lbs appears to be correct.
Slightly off topic but in Japan the highest permitted
BMI by JCAB is 30. I used to laugh it off as being
far too conservative but lately I think they're pretty
much on the mark. Over the 30 is definitely risky if
visceral fat is also taken into consideration.
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mikedreamer:
Really not off topic at all.
If it weren't for ALPA and the cheap airline companies, BMI would be a big deal, as it should be.
Slightly off topic but in Japan the highest permitted
BMI by JCAB is 30. I used to laugh it off as being
far too conservative but lately I think they're pretty
much on the mark. Over the 30 is definitely risky if
visceral fat is also taken into consideration.
BMI by JCAB is 30. I used to laugh it off as being
far too conservative but lately I think they're pretty
much on the mark. Over the 30 is definitely risky if
visceral fat is also taken into consideration.
If it weren't for ALPA and the cheap airline companies, BMI would be a big deal, as it should be.
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" Jim Fixx, the author of the book on running was in great health and died at 40 of cardiac arrest or something like it "
Actually, if I remember correctly, the reason Jim Fixx began runnng is that early cardiac death was very prevelant in his family. Though he still passed away at a young age, he lived longer than his father and other relatives did.
Actually, if I remember correctly, the reason Jim Fixx began runnng is that early cardiac death was very prevelant in his family. Though he still passed away at a young age, he lived longer than his father and other relatives did.
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Well I agree that big fat smokers and 150hr captains shouldn't just be allowed to fly planes, we should screen for them!
I mean as long as we are hiring off the bottom of the resume pile, lets see if we can really scrape the bottom of the barrel. Lets get some handicapped people in there...more people on meds, since that's ok now, and why not someone with epilepsy...how about a former Guantano prisoner? Fully reformed I am sure. We can lower the age from 23 as well down to say 16? I mean if they can drive a car...why not an Airbus!
I mean as long as we are hiring off the bottom of the resume pile, lets see if we can really scrape the bottom of the barrel. Lets get some handicapped people in there...more people on meds, since that's ok now, and why not someone with epilepsy...how about a former Guantano prisoner? Fully reformed I am sure. We can lower the age from 23 as well down to say 16? I mean if they can drive a car...why not an Airbus!
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Aterpster - I have to admit I was always nudging
28 until the wife said unless I lost weight there're
gonna be some... things... she won't do anymore.
Suffice to say I went on a rabbit food diet and
went to a BMI of 25 in a matter of weeks!
28 until the wife said unless I lost weight there're
gonna be some... things... she won't do anymore.
Suffice to say I went on a rabbit food diet and
went to a BMI of 25 in a matter of weeks!
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Had that happen to me on an AA flight DFW-DCA a few years back. FO had the attack as soon as we hit level flight and we dropped like a stone to get into Kansas City. Capt said FO was able to man comms until the final approach. Made for a real sporty ride in an MD-80 dropping from 32k' to WOW in less than 15 minutes tops!
We were in first row that biz class that flight so I got a chance to chat with Capt as we waited on the deck for the relief crew to land and take us on to DCA. He said the saving grace was that this was this guys 3rd or 4th attack so he knew the early signs and allowed them to declare emergency and begin decent before it got too far. (So my next question is why a guy with prev heart attacks was behind the sticks and not manning the sims or the flight manual desk!)
We were in first row that biz class that flight so I got a chance to chat with Capt as we waited on the deck for the relief crew to land and take us on to DCA. He said the saving grace was that this was this guys 3rd or 4th attack so he knew the early signs and allowed them to declare emergency and begin decent before it got too far. (So my next question is why a guy with prev heart attacks was behind the sticks and not manning the sims or the flight manual desk!)
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WOW!
Firstly lets try to remember that this man most likely had a family that loved him and will miss him terribly. Can we stop the personal attacks until maybe he is in his grave.
For the rest of us who are lucky enough to still be with the living maybe we should look at our own health and life style choices before we judge some one we never knew.
Take a look at the you tube video forks over knives.
For the rest of us who are lucky enough to still be with the living maybe we should look at our own health and life style choices before we judge some one we never knew.
Take a look at the you tube video forks over knives.
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Occasionally, a pilot will die in the cockpit, that's why we need 2 qualified and trained pilots in front. Get over it.
I started aviation as a 200-hour ab initio in a 150-pax airliner: difference with today was that I got a proper line training (150 hours with a safety pilot!), and my trainers made damn sure I knew how to get the plane safely to the ground on my own before even thinking about releasing me for normal ops.
Don't expect pilots to be fit like astronauts if you're going to pay them like gas-station attendants. Also don't expect them to retire at 60: they can't afford it!
So the way to safety is to make sure at least 1 trained and reasonably rested pilot remains in an airliner if his colleague dies.
As for not letting smokers near an airplane: bollocks. OTOH, i feel the same about people who believe God is their co-pilot, so who am I to judge )))
I started aviation as a 200-hour ab initio in a 150-pax airliner: difference with today was that I got a proper line training (150 hours with a safety pilot!), and my trainers made damn sure I knew how to get the plane safely to the ground on my own before even thinking about releasing me for normal ops.
Don't expect pilots to be fit like astronauts if you're going to pay them like gas-station attendants. Also don't expect them to retire at 60: they can't afford it!
So the way to safety is to make sure at least 1 trained and reasonably rested pilot remains in an airliner if his colleague dies.
As for not letting smokers near an airplane: bollocks. OTOH, i feel the same about people who believe God is their co-pilot, so who am I to judge )))
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ECG while resting is not a garuntee of good health. Stress ECG whie on trade mil is a good indicator of cardio vascular conditions. Internal inflamation is now recognised as major factor for heart attack. C reactive protine is an indicator of that. Some other biochemical tests like Cholestarol, triglycerides, GTT also non invasive MRI is now available for the heart. Age alone is not a factor. Anyone beyond 45 years life style and general fitness plays a large part in longivity. Exceptions will always be thhere. Those are not the criteria. Indian medical requires lot many tests beyond 60 years.
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It's about obesity, smoking and a diet full of toxins, not a calendar.
I did a little Internet search tonight and found that just since the U.S adopted the age 65 restriction for Part 121, two doctors performing surgery (one was doing heart surgery and the other was doing brain surgery) had heart attacks. But I don't see the same hue-and-cry about that.
What a load of pious . I'm not a smoker, but I utterly despise the modern phenomenon where people seem to think that they have the right (nay, duty) to lecture grown adults on what they can and cannot put into their body. What the hell does it have to do with you or anyone else if a pilot chooses to smoke? As long as they can pass the class 1 medical, smokers have as much right to be in the cockpit as anyone else. The same goes for obese people (I'm not one of them either, as it happens).
As for not letting smokers near an airplane: bollocks.
Fortunately I could lift the curtains that blocked the nav desk light for night flying, and wear an oxygen mask. Made it a bit difficult to use the sextant tho' so occasionally I had to take a deep breath for each 2 minute star shot.
I renewed my Class 1 at the ripe old age of 75 ( not for commercial pax carrying ops. I might add ) but then, for no reason other than age, the CAA insisted that I take a treadmill ECG. The Cardio. expressed concern that I might be driving home, and 2 weeks later I was the proud possessor of 2 arterial stents.
What p***es me off tho' is that for maybe a full 6 months before presenting myself for a Class 1 renewal again, I could have legally flown a 747 - from a medical point of view - with the undiagnosed problem that ultimately resulted in my two stents, but a problem was detected, fixed, and now I'm physically better than I was in that preceeding 6 months, but they won't even allow me a Class 2.
I've beaten the buggers tho', they can't get their sticky fingers on my microlight ticket, that's a different protocol.
Mustn't grumble, they probably saved my life, but what is of real concern is that only because I wanted to continue flying was my problem even detected - how many of those cars hurtling towards you on the other side of the road, at a closing speed in excess of 120 mph, are being driven by guys who have NEVER seen a doctor ?
Last edited by ExSp33db1rd; 28th Sep 2013 at 08:06.
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I've seen some terrible posts here. Just awful.
I read that a 51 year old DC10 captain had a heart attack on landing rollout, the copilot had to take the plane.
age 51.
people talking about weight factors have not fully researched other problems too.
how about use of drugs, I mean ILLEGAL drugs like pot or cocaine? shall we ban pilots who have ever used these? I'm for that. Let's also ban people from running for the US presidency who smoke, or have used drugs....fine with me.
as to age...;my copilot, age 28 fell asleep in cruise...during his probation year. He can be fired for that...age 28.
I truly believe there should be no upper age limit for pilots...just individual health.
And NO one can truly predict a heart attack...while there are indicators, and more coming each year, no one can predict it with 100 percent certainty.
I would think taking an aspirin daily should be considered by many...sitting from other things...I recall a very slender, wealthy medium age man just walking the streets of New York just keeled over(cardiac arrest)...that man directed and wrote many famous films including, "PLANES,Trains and automobiles"
healthy practices for sure...but the sadness of so many of these posts is disturbing, esp from flyboyike.
we should and must retain at LEAST 2 qualified pilots in the cockpit in case one gets sick. I even know of one case in which a pregnant captain ended up in great distress due to her pregnancy...she was flying on the day before her grounding date due to pregnancy was to happen
I read that a 51 year old DC10 captain had a heart attack on landing rollout, the copilot had to take the plane.
age 51.
people talking about weight factors have not fully researched other problems too.
how about use of drugs, I mean ILLEGAL drugs like pot or cocaine? shall we ban pilots who have ever used these? I'm for that. Let's also ban people from running for the US presidency who smoke, or have used drugs....fine with me.
as to age...;my copilot, age 28 fell asleep in cruise...during his probation year. He can be fired for that...age 28.
I truly believe there should be no upper age limit for pilots...just individual health.
And NO one can truly predict a heart attack...while there are indicators, and more coming each year, no one can predict it with 100 percent certainty.
I would think taking an aspirin daily should be considered by many...sitting from other things...I recall a very slender, wealthy medium age man just walking the streets of New York just keeled over(cardiac arrest)...that man directed and wrote many famous films including, "PLANES,Trains and automobiles"
healthy practices for sure...but the sadness of so many of these posts is disturbing, esp from flyboyike.
we should and must retain at LEAST 2 qualified pilots in the cockpit in case one gets sick. I even know of one case in which a pregnant captain ended up in great distress due to her pregnancy...she was flying on the day before her grounding date due to pregnancy was to happen
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Originally Posted by flarepilot
healthy practices for sure...but the sadness of so many of these posts is disturbing, esp from flyboyike.
He lived (or at least crashpadded) in Humble, TX outside of Houston. He died in Boise. His loved ones didn't get to say good-bye to him. What they did get was that terrible phone call. I bet his family would have gladly traded whatever he made in these past three years just to see him again.
At the end of the day, it's really a matter of priorities, isn't it? Do you want to be a big (in this case literally), bad Airline Captain until they carry you out feet first or do you want to be a human being at some point? The fact that so many people seem to choose the former is indeed very sad.
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FlyMD-Occasionally, a pilot will die in the cockpit, that's why we need 2 qualified and trained pilots in front. Get over it.
I started aviation as a 200-hour ab initio in a 150-pax airliner: difference with today was that I got a proper line training (150 hours with a safety pilot!), and my trainers made damn sure I knew how to get the plane safely to the ground on my own before even thinking about releasing me for normal ops.
I started aviation as a 200-hour ab initio in a 150-pax airliner: difference with today was that I got a proper line training (150 hours with a safety pilot!), and my trainers made damn sure I knew how to get the plane safely to the ground on my own before even thinking about releasing me for normal ops.
That's the problem...what if your safety pilot had a fatal heart attack? Suddenly the wisdom of using very low time pilots, with no real life experience beyond the training environment, is suspect.
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misd-again: by safety pilot, we mean a THIRD pilot in the cockpit. That would have meant 2 heart-attacks before I was left alone at controls, and this for 150 hours after having successfully passed an transition course and spent a full day shooting landings with an empty MD80.
But that's precisely the rub, you see: proper training costs money, and that's precisely what's not being spent anymore. There is no problem with properly trained ab-initio pilots. The operative words here are "properly" and "trained".
The point of my post was that a single fatality on the flight deck will happen from time to time, no matter how high you might want to set the bar for a class 1 medical, or how low the mandatory retirement age.
The essential safety factor is having 2 rested and trained people on each flight deck. No point in re-starting the tired old discussion about ab-initio cadets vs. "experienced" first officers, the two sides having shown many times in these fora that no meeting of the minds is possible..
But that's precisely the rub, you see: proper training costs money, and that's precisely what's not being spent anymore. There is no problem with properly trained ab-initio pilots. The operative words here are "properly" and "trained".
The point of my post was that a single fatality on the flight deck will happen from time to time, no matter how high you might want to set the bar for a class 1 medical, or how low the mandatory retirement age.
The essential safety factor is having 2 rested and trained people on each flight deck. No point in re-starting the tired old discussion about ab-initio cadets vs. "experienced" first officers, the two sides having shown many times in these fora that no meeting of the minds is possible..