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Collective Colour Vision Thread 4

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Collective Colour Vision Thread 4

Old 19th Jul 2019, 20:25
  #541 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 174
Originally Posted by BONES_ View Post
Meanwhile New Zealand has reviewed colour vision assessments and decided to allow CVD pilots to undertake an operational colour vision assessment (OCVA) potentially allowing them to fly at all levels, including CPL/ATPL/Night/IFR.

https://www.caa.govt.nz/assets/legac...7NgP2HCjYBRvM0

Australia is to follow next. Now considering also a more pragmatic FAA approach, where is EASA standing? isn’t it time for Europe to wake up and allow competency based testing to end once for all this farcical discrimination?
It's good to see that NZ & Australia have decided to lead the way with this, a OCVA makes sense. As an engineer this is similar to what I have to do every year, we call it a trade test but it's basically the same thing.
No doubt the UK Campaign Against Aviation will follow suit in about 20 years time !
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Old 22nd Aug 2019, 07:58
  #542 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Munich, DE
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Tell 'em to get bent, save up a bit o'quid, and go to Florida. The FAA tests you with charts, the actual tower lights and a Color Vision Medical Flight Test with the examiner in the airplane, none of this video game bull. You'll have even less of a problem with EFBs, because the colors don't fade with sun exposure as they do in paper, and ICAO charts are printed in glow-in-the-dark intense tones anyway. EASA accepts FAA Letters of Evidence and/or SODA, Statement of Demonstrated Aptitude.

Last edited by averdung; 22nd Aug 2019 at 08:10.
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Old 22nd Aug 2019, 12:45
  #543 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
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Originally Posted by averdung View Post
. EASA accepts FAA Letters of Evidence and/or SODA, Statement of Demonstrated Aptitude.
Do you confirm that? That would make things a lot of easier. Does anybody had some experience with presenting FAA SODA to EASA and getting rid of colour caused limitations on medical?
Do you guys have any kind of documents to confirm that statement?
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Old 2nd Sep 2019, 04:13
  #544 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: baset
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Ishihara version at EK

Anybody out there flying at EK can tell please what version of ishihara is used during their medical? Is it the standard 24 plate version used everywhere?
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Old 10th Jan 2020, 13:56
  #545 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Munich, DE
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Posts: 15
My AME in Munich accepted the LOE without complaint.
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Old 12th Jan 2020, 21:53
  #546 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Guildford
Posts: 2
Colourblindness - Driving at Heathrow

Hi, not sure if this is the right place to post this but I need some help!
i am currently an engineer at Gatwick and therefore have my airside driving permit. I am partially red/green colourblind but Itís not seen as an issue at Gatwick.
i have been offered a job at Heathrow, but am worried that their driving medicals may be more strict and I wonít be allowed a driving permit?
Has anyone had to deal with this before? I donít want to go and accept this job offer if I will find out that I canít drive at the airport a few weeks down the line!

cheers!!
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Old 17th Jan 2020, 18:18
  #547 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: EU
Posts: 3
Question CPL without night | currently class 2 VCL

Hello guys,
I've read a bunch on this thread but I'm still curious about my situation. I've tried to get EASA Class 1 in two different AMEs, one with ishihara test 24 plates, the other with lantern test (I think!). However, after the doctors talked to eachother a lot, since I was at the limit, they decided to fail me.

Is it possible to get any form of CPL licence without night or are there any walkarounds so I could get a less privileged CPL with Class 1? I'm sorry if I don't know how to actually address this question, but I thought that I might find some answer here.

Thanks!
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Old 17th Jan 2020, 21:00
  #548 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Bologna
Posts: 18
Hello,
So you failed ishiara and then lantern test? In which country? A bit more details can help to help you
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Old 18th Jan 2020, 08:05
  #549 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
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Yes that is correct. Romania first, only with Ishihara test, then went to Prague where they had also some lantern test, but nobody spoke english at a level that I could really understand. However, after the test there they talked a lot and decided that I'm not up to the requirements.
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Old 20th Jan 2020, 19:35
  #550 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
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Hi theringding,

I did my airside driving medicals at both LHR & LGW and they where pretty much the same.
In both cases they gave me the licence as I could pass the lamp test.
This was about 20 years ago so I've no idea if they have changed much.

PS: LHR is quite a bit bigger than LGW, I managed to loose a B747 there one day !
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Old 21st Jan 2020, 12:02
  #551 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: EU
Posts: 3
Regarding the CAD test in the UK,

If I hold a vaild Class 2 with VCL do I need to go through the process of SOLI change if I want a Class 1 from UK CAA? Maybe it's worth mentioning that I don't hold a PPL licence, just the medical. I really seem to struggle to understand who should go through that process. Thank you!
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Old 8th Mar 2020, 05:51
  #552 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 110
Meanwhile over in Australia and New Zealand, our aviation regulators have finally recognised than an operational assessment is the only true way of assessing whether a CVD pilot can competently perform their duties:

CASA changes colour vision policy

The CASA Briefing - February 2020

A solution has been found to a somewhat thorny and long-running issue that is important to a group of pilots. The issue is colour vision deficiency and the way CASA manages safety related assessments as part of the medical certification process. Colour vision deficiency affects about 400 Australian pilots and a three-stage testing process has been in place for some time, with a pass at any stage allowing an unrestricted medical to be issued. Where all three tests are failed then a medical certificate can be issued subject to conditions.Research in recent years has shown relying on diagnostic tests alone may be unnecessarily limiting when considering the impact of colour vision deficiency on aviation safety. Advances in technology, operating techniques and human factors training can now mitigate many of the safety risks of colour vision deficiency. Technology to assist pilots has developed significantly and the impact of colour vision deficiency on aviation safety should take these changes into account. These factors have been recognised overseas, most recently in New Zealand where a new approach to colour vision deficiency came into effect in May 2019, which includes an operational colour vision assessment. This assessment comprises a ground-based assessment and an in-flight assessment which looks at a pilotís ability to interpret visual information. A separate assessment is done for day flying and for night flying.

We have decided to adopt this approach to colour vision deficiency assessment and in the short term we will recognise the New Zealand operational colour vision assessment as an alternative to Australiaís current third level of testing. Work is already well underway on the development of an Australian operational test for colour vision deficiency by mid-2020. Any Australian pilots who wish to use the New Zealand assessment can do so now, although it will require travel to that country. CASA has carefully examined all relevant safety issues and believes this new approach offers a practical alternative assessment for colour vision deficient pilots. We have listened to the views of pilots and made judgements based on research and evidence.

Best wishes
Shane Carmody

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Old 15th Jun 2020, 07:41
  #553 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: On earth
Posts: 2
Medical Classs 1-Colour vision, retake exam in different state

Hello fellow aviators. I have a question for you and I want to hear your advice and opinion on the following case:
In 2017 I got a medical class 2 in Romania, but with VCL limitation, my colour perception was not good enough. Unfortunately I was very tired at the point of the exam, this worsened things.
In late 2019 I went to Hungary to obtain a Class 1 medical license. Ishihara tests did not went bad I got 14 out of 17 plates, but anomaloscope failed me. My AQ 3.1 result means a mild deuteranomaly, but the matching results were somehow out of the limits, I don't have a clear picture about the results.
EASA accepts also Lantern and CAD tests, but neither Romanian and Hungarian CAA's offer this option because theese tests are not available. Situation is, that my case was rejected by both authorities leaving me without further options. Romanian CAA told me I have the right to retake the exam in a state where extensive testing is available, but Austrian CAA told me that based on EU Regulation 1178/2011 I can't re-take a medical in another state, and I can't transfer my medical to them until it's rejected. This way i'm blocked.
Also a small problem might be, that I had a 4 hour long psychology test, was well tired and the results were unsatisfactory. I heard that failing psychology is not a big issue you can retake it appeal it. Some psychologysts ask you some questions, while others are really strict.
Because of the following results my medical 2 was revoked. Well, I'm not really sorry about it, as medical 2 would never help me to fulfill my dream to fly for an airline.

What is your opinion, what would be the next step to take? I'm thinking to look more at the rules, and if needed I would contact a lawyer to clarify and maybe send in an appeal to EASA on this case. It is very discriminative that we have same rules but I don't start with equal examination rights. I know a very similar case like mine, of a CC friend. Romanian CAA said that my chances are not looking promising. I know that takitng Lantern and CAD might not come with acceptable results, but I want to take every chance.

I can't say how important would be for me to have the chance to undergo extensive testing. I have my opinion on the color vision, I work in an A320 simualtor more then 2 years now. Based on colleagues and pilot's opinion my colour vision is perfect in every condition, I can identify colours on the instruments also outside. I know that in EASA rules are really tight, but I think they are unfair. Look how FAA or CASA handles theese cases...
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 13:50
  #554 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: England
Posts: 14
Hi there
sorry to hear about your situation, I would say to post this on the Collective Colour Vision Thread 4 as you will get many more responses. I have quite a bit of experience regarding colour vision regulations and hope to help you. First thing states can apply different guidance material, here in the UK, unfortunately, we only accept the CAD test. This means you can gain a medical in one state and be denied in another. The best suggestion before the transfer your medical would be to ask the authority that you wish to transfer to, whether they could perform the colour vision assessment first but not as part of a medical, for example, if you choose a state with the lantern test and you passed you are then given two options. Either keep your licence in your current state and send them your result of a pass from the lantern test, if they include that tests as part of the guidance material you should be issued with a class 1, or you can have you're medical denied in your current state and transfer this over, do the new class 1 medical with the knowledge that you passed the colour vision testing and be approved by your new authority. I would highly suggest not doing the CAD test as this has many flaws. The Austrian CAA is correct in saying you cant transfer you're medical without it being denied first by the current authority, but as said because its denied in one state doesn't mean it will be denied in another as they all seem to have slightly different guidance material. You arent allowed two medical examinations in two different authorities at one time. There must be only one state of authority at a time. Have a good research into the tests try and find an authority that does that test and contact them. Hope that helps ! PM me if you have any more questions
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 14:15
  #555 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: England
Posts: 14
The UK CAA is the most restrictive, each state has its own guidance material which is meant to follow EASAs, if you look on their website or contact the authority they can tell you what tests they accept. It is now the case you can be denied in one state but approved in another, the best suggestion would to look into the current testing options and try and find a place which has your most favorable option, however, I would highly suggest not doing the CAD test as its flawed.
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Old 16th Jun 2020, 14:16
  #556 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: England
Posts: 14
Hi everyone I have completed my dissertation research on the UK CAAs colour vision regulation for commercial pilots and whether it's too restrictive and if so what sort of regulation should be used? It can be found under The leading-edge research and innovation section:https://www.airleague.co.uk/learning/
https://www.airleague.co.uk/wp-conte...Regulation.pdf
Do let me know whether you have any questions.
I hope you find this a very useful source of information and research that is up to date, accurate and speaks the truth about the current regulations in place.
Cheers!
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Old 17th Jun 2020, 13:55
  #557 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Oslo
Posts: 3
Great article and report!
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Old 18th Jun 2020, 21:03
  #558 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 174
Originally Posted by theringding View Post
Hi, not sure if this is the right place to post this but I need some help!
i am currently an engineer at Gatwick and therefore have my airside driving permit. I am partially red/green colourblind but It’s not seen as an issue at Gatwick.
i have been offered a job at Heathrow, but am worried that their driving medicals may be more strict and I won’t be allowed a driving permit?
Has anyone had to deal with this before? I don’t want to go and accept this job offer if I will find out that I can’t drive at the airport a few weeks down the line!

cheers!!
Hi, sorry I haven't replied earlier, I've just spotted your post.
I had my first eye test at LHR and (as predicted) failed the Ishihara test so I was given a lamp test and passed.
A couple of years later I transferred to LGW and did my eye test there, it was almost the same although the lamp test was slightly different.
This was about 20 years ago but I can't imagine it's changed too much. It used to be if you held an airside driving licence for either LHR or LGW you could drive at both airports.

Good Luck !

B*gger ! looks like I already replied to this one, that will teach me not to read the complete thread !
Sorry !

Last edited by Webby737; 18th Jun 2020 at 21:05. Reason: already replied
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 09:57
  #559 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: England
Posts: 14
Originally Posted by BananaJoe320 View Post
Hello fellow aviators. I have a question for you and I want to hear your advice and opinion on the following case:
In 2017 I got a medical class 2 in Romania, but with VCL limitation, my colour perception was not good enough. Unfortunately I was very tired at the point of the exam, this worsened things.
In late 2019 I went to Hungary to obtain a Class 1 medical license. Ishihara tests did not went bad I got 14 out of 17 plates, but anomaloscope failed me. My AQ 3.1 result means a mild deuteranomaly, but the matching results were somehow out of the limits, I don't have a clear picture about the results.
EASA accepts also Lantern and CAD tests, but neither Romanian and Hungarian CAA's offer this option because theese tests are not available. Situation is, that my case was rejected by both authorities leaving me without further options. Romanian CAA told me I have the right to retake the exam in a state where extensive testing is available, but Austrian CAA told me that based on EU Regulation 1178/2011 I can't re-take a medical in another state, and I can't transfer my medical to them until it's rejected. This way i'm blocked.
Also a small problem might be, that I had a 4 hour long psychology test, was well tired and the results were unsatisfactory. I heard that failing psychology is not a big issue you can retake it appeal it. Some psychologysts ask you some questions, while others are really strict.
Because of the following results my medical 2 was revoked. Well, I'm not really sorry about it, as medical 2 would never help me to fulfill my dream to fly for an airline.

What is your opinion, what would be the next step to take? I'm thinking to look more at the rules, and if needed I would contact a lawyer to clarify and maybe send in an appeal to EASA on this case. It is very discriminative that we have same rules but I don't start with equal examination rights. I know a very similar case like mine, of a CC friend. Romanian CAA said that my chances are not looking promising. I know that takitng Lantern and CAD might not come with acceptable results, but I want to take every chance.

I can't say how important would be for me to have the chance to undergo extensive testing. I have my opinion on the color vision, I work in an A320 simualtor more then 2 years now. Based on colleagues and pilot's opinion my colour vision is perfect in every condition, I can identify colours on the instruments also outside. I know that in EASA rules are really tight, but I think they are unfair. Look how FAA or CASA handles theese cases...
HI you need to free up some space in your inobx so i can reply to your message thanks
aviator2345 is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2020, 09:57
  #560 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: England
Posts: 14
Thanks alekpilot !
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