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Colour Vision and Class 1

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Colour Vision and Class 1

Old 16th May 2001, 23:39
  #21 (permalink)  
anengineer
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...ooh - it's gone all quiet... doesn't anyone know ? - I might be lucky enough to scrape through the colour test on my first Class 1, but the thought of then blowing everything I own to pay for training, only to find that under the JAA regs, I had to re-test 5 years down the line and .... fail !!

I don't think my nerves could take that every 5 years !

Does anyone know the definitive position on the JAA regs on this ?

(I am a little confused about the JAA thing - I am making the presumption that CAA licences will be phased out and replaced with JAA stuff. - am I right ? - or are there concurrent standards and licences ?)

 
Old 16th May 2001, 23:57
  #22 (permalink)  
wilmo
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Sorry to dissapoint you.........but yes, you have to do the test every five years! It is even possible that they want you to do the lantirntest every year,but that is up to the ams. According to the JAR pilot's will be tested on colorvision every 5 years.
 
Old 17th May 2001, 00:29
  #23 (permalink)  
anengineer
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Red face

How can they justify that ???!!!! Everywhere you look, aviation authorities ALL say that colour vision remains static and does not change. I have it in writing from the CAA to that effect....

How can they now require retests every five years ????

Talk about double standards !!!!!!!!
 
Old 17th May 2001, 01:39
  #24 (permalink)  
wilmo
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According to the mafia it is possible that the perception of colors can get worse due to some medicin and age. By national law you had to pass the test just once but now they come up with this. The US, Canada and Australia are going to the left and Europe to the right about this subject. Don,t spent youre money on flight training based on a lot of preparation of the tests. If you are flying for an airliner and you get your 5 yearly check you better have nerves of steel. Otherwise you already may fail it because of the pressure.
Greetz
 
Old 17th May 2001, 03:07
  #25 (permalink)  
anengineer
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Wilmo, are you *certain* that it is retested every 5 years ? - Do you know of anywhere I can look it up for myself ? Sorry if I seem doubting, it's just that I need to make sure it's correct, for myself (as taking BA's advice as gospel 24 years ago caused me a lot of problems !)

Are the JAR rules in place now ? - or is the UK still under CAA rules ?

Thanks for your info though... even if it did make me reach for the beer

 
Old 17th May 2001, 03:27
  #26 (permalink)  
wilmo
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I was told that the UK is already using jar for the medicals. About the regulations, you should find that in jar fcl part 3. You must know that they are still discuss several medical subjects and that some things can change. If you can do a national medical, try to do that. If you pass this one, you will get a waiver for the rest on your career when you do a jar medical according to jar fcl 3.005 b(1) en (4). You will get then a jar fcl medical with the restriction on it:'' for english registerd aircraft only''. Another option is to find out which Europian country still exams on national standerds and after you pass these, file a request with the caa for a national validation( for english registerd aircraft only)
 
Old 19th May 2001, 03:15
  #27 (permalink)  
cantthinkofone
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anengineer - I was in the same boat as you. I failed Ishihara and Holmes Wright but passed Giles Archer so went the FAA route instead. Now have FAA class 1 and am off to Florida to do CPL/IR......
 
Old 20th May 2001, 16:49
  #28 (permalink)  
anengineer
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...but how will you then be able to fly in the UK ? (presuming that's where you are from) If you get an FAA CPL or ATPL you cannot then fly anything other than N registered aircraft in the UK. ..and as far as I know, if you susequently try to convert to a CAA or JAA licence, you will have to comply with the JAA medical... ..or have I got that wrong ?

You have my full attention if you have discovered a way around this !!
 
Old 21st May 2001, 00:33
  #29 (permalink)  
cantthinkofone
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You're absolutely correct, I will be limited to flying N reg aircraft commercially but that's better as far as I am concerned than day VFR on a JAA medical (which you must pass if you wish to convert a foreign licence). Besides, there are plenty of American aircraft operating out of the UK - or maybe I'll move to Florida. Choices, choices!
 
Old 22nd May 2001, 20:08
  #30 (permalink)  
150Driver
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Inverted, where did you do your Titmus vision test? I'm based in southern england, and recently got an FAA class one (with the no night flying restriction), and I now want to try to get that restriction removed.
 
Old 22nd May 2001, 20:48
  #31 (permalink)  
quidam
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try www.jaa.nl if you want fcl's in all their confusing glory OR www.srg.caa.co.uk if you fancy an easier explanation in English.But most of all,Good luck whatever you decide

------------------
It went Earth,Sky,
AMBULANCE
 
Old 23rd May 2001, 04:04
  #32 (permalink)  
inverted flatspin
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150 Driver. You have two options.

1. Pass one of the alternative tests listed by the FAA. I will copy them to the end of this post. This results in a letter of competency stating that you meet the standards laid out in the FAR's. It is not considered a waiver.

2. Pass a signal light gun test at an FAA FDSO. This is straight forward enough. But you should go along to an airport before hand and ask the nice people in the tower if they could help you out by flashing the same lantern at you so you know if you are wasting your time or not.

I did my Titmus vision test at my ame's office in Irvine California. That may be a little bit out of your way.


here are the details for removal of the restriction as per AOPA (US)


Procedure for removal of color vision restriction
The newly revised standards in Part 67 specify that applicants for all classes of medical certification have "the ability to perceive those colors necessary for the safe performance of airman duties."

If the airman does not pass the color vision test administered in the Aviation Medical Examiner's office at the time of the FAA physical examination, the following options are available to remove the restrictions from the medical certificate:

(1) The more desirable option that does not result in the issuance of a waiver is the successful completion of an FAA-approved alternative test. The attached sheet from the Guide for Aviation Medical Examiners lists the optional tests and requirements for satisfactory completion based upon the class of medical applied for. The alternative test may be administered by an ophthalmologist or optometrist of your choice. Send successful results to the FAA and you will be issued an amended certificate without the night flight/color signal restriction. Instead of a Statement of Demonstrated Ability, the FAA issues a letter that you will present at each physical examination to verify that you meet the color vision standards.

There are several advantages to this option: (a) No authorization from FAA is necessary; (b) results of unsuccessful attempts need not be reported; (c) no SODA ("waiver") will be issued, so the airman need not claim a "waiver" (when applying for a professional flying position, for example); (d) if the airman is unsuccessful with an alternative test, the second option is still available.

(2) A "waiver" allows individuals who do not successfully pass the pseudoisochromatic color plate test administered in the medical examiner's office to have the night flying/color signal control limitation removed from their medical certificates by correctly identifying color signals flashed from an air traffic control tower.

*NOTE: THE COLOR SIGNAL LIGHT TEST CAN BE TAKEN ONLY TWICE.

IF YOU FAIL THE COLOR SIGNAL LIGHT TEST, THE FAA WILL NOT ALLOW YOU TO TAKE ONE OF THE OTHER ALTERNATIVE TESTS FOR REMOVAL OF THE NIGHT FLIGHT RESTRICTION. TRY THE OTHER ALTERNATIVE COLOR PLATE TESTS FIRST!

To be prepared for the color signal light test, we suggest you visit the airport and ask the tower specialist to flash the color signals in your direction. Have someone with you who has "normal" color vision to confirm that you correctly identify the colors. The FAA Inspector's Handbook also allows the inspector to ask you to demonstrate the ability to read aeronautical charts, including colored airspace and ground terrain designations most commonly found on sectional charts. You may or may not be asked to do this in addition to the light signal test.

Call the Aeromedical Certification Division in Oklahoma City and request an authorization for the color signal light test. Indicate the FAA Flight Standards District Office you intend to visit. The FAA will copy the authorization letter to that facility and to you. After receiving the letter, which is valid for 90 days, call the FSDO and schedule the test. Avoid midday tests when the sun is directly overhead. Late afternoon or cloudy days are the best conditions to view the light signals. Some facilities will accommodate an after-hours appointment if you ask.

Upon your successful completion of the test, the examiner will be authorized to issue the waiver (Statement of Demonstrated Ability) removing the restrictions from your medical. The FAA will usually upgrade a waiver to a higher class medical certificate without requiring a repeat of the signal light test.

To contact the FAA in Oklahoma City use the following address and phone:

Aeromedical Certification Division
CAMI Building
P.O. Box 26080
Oklahoma City, OK 73126
405/954-4821

If you have additional questions, call the AOPA Medical Certification Department at 800/872-2672.

Attachments — Color Vision GAME Pages


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Updated by AOPA Medical Certification: 3/99
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And here is the above mentioned attachment

Color Vision
(Attachment for Procedure for removal of color vision restriction)

CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS
All Classes: 14 CFR 67.103(c), 67.203(c), and 67.303(c)

***ability to perceive those colors necessary for the safe performance of airman duties.


EXAMINATION PROCEDURES

Equipment

Pseudoisochromatic plates. (American Optical Company [AOC], 1965 edition; AOC-HRR, 2nd edition; Dvorine, 2nd edition; Ishihara, 14-, 24- or 38-plate editions; or Richmond, 1983 edition, 1 5-plates).

Acceptable substitutes:

Farnsworth Lantern

Keystone Orthoscope.

Keystone Telebinocular.

LKC Technologies, Inc., APT-5 Color Vision Tester.

OPTEC 2000 Vision Tester (Model Nos. 2000PM, 2000PAME, and 2000PI).

Titmus Vision Tester.

Titmus 11 Vision Tester (Model Nos. Tll and TIIS).

Titmus 2 Vision Tester Model Nos. T2A and T2S).

Techniques

The test plates to be used for each of the approved pseudoisochromatic tests are: Test Edition Plates
AOC 1965 1/15
AOC-HRR 2nd 1/11
Dvorine 2nd 1/15
Ishihara 14-plate 1/11
Ishihara 24-plate 1/15
Ishihara 38-plate 1/21
Richmond 1983 1/15


The following conditions should be ensured when testing with pseudoisochromatic plates:

The test book should be held 30 inches from the applicant.

Plates should be illuminated by at least 20-foot candles, preferably by a Macbeth Easel Lamp or a Verilux True Color Light (F1 5T8VLX).

Three seconds should be allowed for the applicant to interpret and respond to a given plate.


Testing procedures for the Farnsworth Lantern; Keystone; LKC Technologies, Inc.; OPTEC 2000, Titmus, Titmus II, and Titmus 2 Vision Testers accompany the instruments.

The results (normal or abnormal) should be recorded.

DISPOSITION
An applicant does not meet the color vision standard if testing reveals:


All Classes

Seven or more errors on plates 1-15 of the AOC (1965 edition) pseudoisochromatic plates.

AOC-HRR (second edition): Any error in test plates 7-11. Because the first 4 plates in the test book are for demonstration only, test plate 7 is actually the eleventh plate in the book. (See instruction booklet).

Seven or more errors on plates 1-15 of Dvorine pseudoisochromatic plates (second edition, 15 plates).

Six or more errors on plates 1-11 of the concise 14-plate edition of the Ishihara pseudoisochromatic plates. Seven or more errors on plates 1-15 of the 24-plate edition of Ishihara pseudoisochromatic plates. Nine or more errors on plates 1-21 of the 38-plate edition of Ishihara pseudoisochromatic plates.

Seven or more errors on plates 1-15 of the Richmond (1983 edition) pseudoisochromatic plates.

Farnsworth Lantern test: An average of more than one error per series of nine color pairs in series 2 and 3. (See instruction booklet).

Any errors in the six plates of the Titmus Vision Tester, the Titmus II Vision Tester, the Titmus 2 Vision Tester, the OPTEC 2000 Vision Tester, the Keystone Orthoscope, or Keystone Telebinocular.

LKC Technologies, Inc., APT-5 Color Vision Tester: The letter must be correctly identified in at least two of the three presentations of each test condition. (See APT-5 screening chart for FM-related testing in instruction booklet).

Certificate Limitation
If an applicant fails to meet the color vision standard as interpreted above but is otherwise qualified, the Examiner may issue a medical certificate bearing the limitation:

NOT VALID FOR NIGHT FLYING OR BY COLOR SIGNAL CONTROL.


Special Issuance of Medical Certificates
An applicant who holds a medical certificate bearing a color vision limitation may request reevaluation or a SODA under the special issuance section of Part 67 (14 CFR 67.401). This request should be in writing and should be directed to the Aeromedical Certification Division, AAM-300. If the applicant can perform the color vision tasks, the FM will issue a medical certificate without limitation with a SODA.

Demonstrating the ability to perform color vision tasks appropriate to the certificate applied for may entail a medical flight test or a signal light test. If a signal light test or medical flight test is required, the FAA will authorize the test. The signal light test may be given at any time during flight training. The medical flight test is most often required when an airman with borderline color vision wishes to upgrade a medical certificate.


X-Chrom Lens
This lens is not acceptable to the FAA as a means for correcting a pilot's color vision deficiencies.

Yarn Test
Yarn tests are not acceptable methods of testing for the FAA medical certificate


 
Old 23rd May 2001, 15:10
  #33 (permalink)  
150Driver
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Thanks for the info. My plan is to find an Opthalmologist in this country equipped to do one of the tests described, and see how I get on. If ok, I'll see if any of the FAA AMEs in this country have that equipment; otherwise I'll apply to Oklahoma City to either find out where I can get tested, or, if they will accept the test as carried out by the above Optho. and remove the restriction.
If I can't pass the test then I guess the next step would be to apply to Ok. City to find out where I can do a SODA.
 
Old 24th May 2001, 03:16
  #34 (permalink)  
inverted flatspin
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150 driver try this link.

http://www.intl.faa.gov/AIA-300/AEUstaff.html

If it comes to a SODA
You may want to call this office as they are local to you
 
Old 25th May 2001, 14:08
  #35 (permalink)  
gijoe
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The dudes at the CAA Med Branch have had my letter for 2 weeks now - still no answer(see my earlier posts).

Any guesses on how long they take to reply to a general query such as the ones we have stated here ?

 
Old 31st May 2001, 12:41
  #36 (permalink)  
gijoe
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Red face

Read my earlier posts for the background to this one - it is a long one !

Letter received 30 May 2001 from the Medical Division at the CAA.

'Thank you for your recent letter regarding your colour vision. As you are unable to correctly identify all of the Ishihara plates, advanced colour testing is necessary. Under the old UK rules, the Giles Archer Lantern test was acceptable and as you have passed this test as recently as last month you can have an unrestricted private pilot's certficate which will carry over with 'grandfather rights' to a JAA Class 2 certificate.

As you failed the Lantern used for professional certfication (the Holmes-Wright Lantern test)here at Aviation House your UK Class 2 medical certficate was endorsed with the standard colour vision deficiency limitation. For JAA Class 1 certification we, in the UK, at the present time only use the Holmes-Wright Lantern Test. As you have failed this test already ther is no point in coming again.

Other countries within the JAA use different Lantern Tests and you, therefore, may be able to pass their advanced colour vision testing, similarly the FAA in the United States.

I hope this clarifies the situation for you but if you would like to get in touch please do so.'


Well... I don't know what you guys think but to me this is progress. I have an overseas PPL with night and AFI ratings and was dreading the reply to my initial letter thinking no more night flying etc. My PPL is from a state that hopes to join the JAA soon and it will be interesting to see where the grandfather rights lie then. The next step I have taken is to write back (at 0430 this morning when my little boy demanded feeding!) requesting clarification of the following:

1.Is a Class 1 from another country acceptable to the CAA for the granting of a professional licence ? ( I do hope so as this is supposedly what JAA and JARs are about).

2.I passed the Holmes-Wright to a suitable standard for rotary and multicrew RAF aircraft about 10 years ago..but not FJ which meant no play. Will they let me do it again at Aviation House ?

A confusing point is that they seem to want you to identify ALL the Ishihara Plates - this is not good as there are usually a couple of impossible ones thrown in to make sure you really aren't guessing. Secondly the CAA seems to be advocating going overseas as they only do 'limited advanced testing'. Surely they have a responsibility to cover the full gambit of testing otherwise they are setting their own agenda within the agenda of the JAA ?

People have spoken of harmonisation with the FAA so in the long term the CAA may dopt their more flexible rules including SODAs etcs

Opinions ?????

PS Anengineer - I see you've been getting a bit of a bashing on some of the other threads




[This message has been edited by gijoe (edited 31 May 2001).]
 
Old 1st Jun 2001, 04:19
  #37 (permalink)  
anengineer
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GiJoe - Great News !!!!

I think that definitely IS progress.

I think I can answer your question regarding resitting the HW lantern. I have a letter that I think I posted here a while back stating much the same as yours on this point, but adding that there was 'technically no reason why you cannot sit the test more than once, but there is no point as colour vision is a static condition' [or words to that effect). So it would seem to imply that their written rules for testing only state that you need to pass the HW lantern, and as much as they don't like it, 'technically' you could sit it a hundred times until you got it right ?
...you never know ! There are loopholes in all sorts of things.. (though I think they would put up a damn good fight to stop you if you had to keep trying !)

Secondly, it's very interesting to note that they mention other JAA countries colour tests. I think we now need to establish;[*] Whether a Class 1 obtained in one JAA state is valid in all[*] A full list of colour testing methods in ALL JAA states[*] Which one is the easiest to pass !

The potential here, given a good answer to point 1, is great. ..taking it to extremes, you could renew your class 1 each year simply by nipping over to the state you passed in originally.

...nah.... I'm letting my optimism run away with me !

Your point on the Ishihara plates confused me a bit - The 'confuser' plates where there is no image, are to be identified too - as ones with nothing on. ...is that what you meant ?

Anyway - I think we have some research to do, don't you ! I will try to get a list of JAA state medical depts and lets see where this path may lead us.

As for my bashing on the other thread - I part incited it, it's good for motivation to get a kick up the arse from time to time !

------------------
"I am safe to fly, this is unjust, it's my dream and damn you, you WILL give me a licence"


[This message has been edited by anengineer (edited 01 June 2001).]
 
Old 1st Jun 2001, 21:51
  #38 (permalink)  
anengineer
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For further information, this is at http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/jar/jar.fcl.3.225.htm

JAR-FCL 3.225 Colour Perception

Date: December 1, 2000

(a) Normal colour perception is defined as the ability to pass the Ishihara test or to pass Nagel's anomaloscope as a normal trichromate (see paragraph 1 Appendix 14 to Subpart B).

(b) An applicant shall have normal perception of colours or be colour safe. Applicants who fail Ishihara's test shall be assessed as colour safe if they pass extensive testing with methods acceptable to the AMS (anomaloscopy or colour lanterns - see paragraph 2 Appendix 14 to Subpart B).

(c) An applicant who fails the acceptable colour perception tests is to be considered colour unsafe and shall be assessed as unfit.


and the "Appendix 14 to Subpart B" (at http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/jar/jar.fcl.3.apx.b.c.14.htm says....

Appendix 14 to Subparts B and C Colour Perception

Date: December 1, 2000


(See JAR-FCL 3.225 and 3.345)

1 The Ishihara test (24 plate version) is to be considered passed if all plates are identified correctly without uncertainty or hesitation (less than 3 seconds per plate). For lighting conditions see the JAA Manual of Civil Aviation Medicine.

2 Those failing the Ishihara test shall be examined either by:

(a) Anomaloscopy (Nagel or equivalent). This test is considered passed if the colour match is trichromatic and the matching range is 4 scale units or less, or by

(b) Lantern testing. This test is considered passed if the applicant passes without error a test with lanterns acceptable to the JAA-FCL Medical Sub-committee such as Holmes Wright, Beynes, or Spectrolux


Right - so, as long as a Class 1 taken in one JAA state is valid in ALL, then we are now no longer restricted to the bloody HW lantern. The regs state two others, the Beynes and the Spectrolux [hadn't heard of that one before !] - with possibly others as well, as the text implies that this is not a definitive list.

I am emailing the JAA-FCL medical subcommittee to try to get a full list of acceptable lanterns. (if I can find their address !).

I am hoping that EU citizens can take a Class 1 in any member state and that it will be valid in any other member state - surely that's part of the whole EU and JAR-FCL harmonisation ethos ?

If the official answer to this is 'no', then, by definition, it would be stating that e.g. the UK regards Germany's testing methods (and subseqently, safety) as substandard. ...surely this would be worth a legal challenge ? (just looking 5 steps ahead ! )

Oh dear.... I am feeling that horrible tingling again.. it's called optimism. Hmmm, every time I've felt that, it's always been followed by disappointment...


p.s. - what is an 'AMS' ???


------------------
"I am safe to fly, this is unjust, it's my dream and damn you, you WILL give me a licence"
 
Old 5th Jun 2001, 12:49
  #39 (permalink)  
anengineer
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GiJoe... are you there ? I have proof now that 5 yearly retests are NOT required by the CAA.
 
Old 5th Jun 2001, 16:35
  #40 (permalink)  
gijoe
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Wink

That's also good news but you will have to pass the test properly in the first place. I am still awaiting a reply to my reply to the first query (if you see what I mean) and we shall see where we go from there. It will be very interesting to see if a med cat obtained from another JAA state is acceptable here. Reading between the lines of the first reply from the CAA, I can't see how it can be any different.

Keep up the good work everyone - more and more pressure to bear on the CAA might make them think !!

 

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