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Collective Colour Vision Thread 3

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Collective Colour Vision Thread 3

Old 8th Sep 2007, 08:43
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Need Money, well done on passing the lanterns mate!

AdamLT, I'd be incline to agree with east_sider here. Don't be so quick to take the tests at gatwick....as failing them see's you getting logged as colour unsafe...and this will make things harder for you. There are plenty of lantern tests out there without leaving Europe. Do them. If you are as passionate as you say you are about your dream, you will do these tests. And hopefully, pass one.

Good luck.
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Old 9th Sep 2007, 16:24
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Neo_RS14: Passed the Ishihara (having failed Ishihara at junior school).

AdamLT: For the price of the City tests - the Ishihara 24 plate book is available on line at a reputable book retailer. Do the exact test the CAA will do as many times as you want in order to build up your confidence.
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Old 10th Sep 2007, 20:44
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Nothing about introduction of new tests in CAA web pages.

In any case, that would mean a change of policy and that needs to go before the JAA Medical Sub-Committee and votes taken.

The CAA would like to introduce it asap, I am sure, as they can then set the pass/fail parameters and they would no longer be guilty of manipulation of a prescribed medical procedure as they currently are with Ishihara (Speak to any solicitor who is up to speed on medico-legal matters and they will soon let you know how 'naughty' this is and how open the CAA and any other JAA national authority is to litigation!).
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Old 11th Sep 2007, 13:32
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hi all

many, many thanks for your advice. i have just been to have my eyes tested (they are extremely healthy in terms of muscles, etc.) and did a little CVD test witht he Ishihara. i could see the majority of the plates, but failed a couple. she said i had a very small deficiency. she advised me to get in touch with the Institute of Optometry in London (elephant & castle to be exact). they do a full CVD investigation for £50. so it looks like ill go to this first rather than being 'stupid' at going straight to the CAA.

for more information on the IOO, head to Institute of optometry, optometry courses.

my question here is....

if you go here (IOO) and pay for the full report (sounds likes it more thorough that at the CAA) would the CAA take note of this report and therefore no need to do a CVD investigation at Gatwick??

Many thanks for your time again

ad

Last edited by AdamLT; 23rd Sep 2010 at 09:11.
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Old 11th Sep 2007, 23:19
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Hi Adam, The simple answer is No. They may take note of your test, but they will require you to pass their lantern test. You might as well do this first and save yourself £22 in the process.
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Old 12th Sep 2007, 15:48
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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AdamLT

The tests a the Elephant & Castle will not give you any idea what to expect at Gatwick, unless they have the Baynes or Holmes Wright. It will give you a good idea on where your colour vision problems are however.

The JAA lantern tests are aimed to exclude CVD's. They know our weaknesses and that is where the lanterns test are set at. The CAA/JAA want "normal" colour vision so they search to exclude us CVD's, unlike other places like the USA whos tests are designed to include those that are capable of distinguishing aviation colours as defined in the Air Navigation Order from the ICAO.

100% for your determination mate - keep going and never give up. I don't want to put the mockers on the tests at the Elephant, you will learn about your CVD and knowledge is power, but don't expect it to be a trial run for Gatwick.

Dr Ian Perry I think has the Holmes Wright and is a AME Tel 01264889659 I think he is near Andover in Hampshire. However don't expect the CAA to accept his results, but good for a test and if you pass with him and fail at Gatwick it is more ammo for you, the CAA don't do any maintanance on their equipment
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Old 13th Sep 2007, 01:30
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Don't give up hope!!

Hi Guy's(Girl's),I am from Australia,and about 8 Years ago underwent colour testing for a "Class 1 Medical",Commercial Standard,I to Failed the ishihara test,i was sent to the college of optometry in Melbourne and was further tested on the Farnsworth lantern and a couple of others,I was given a pass and issued with NO Medical restrictions on my licence due to colour blindness and hold an Australian CPL and Instructor rating,I have since came across "Colour Corrective lenses"which allow you to pass the Ishihara plate test,(I do Own 2 Pair Now),these corrective lenses are great and i wear them flying all the time.
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Old 13th Sep 2007, 22:19
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Sorry people I did not mean to imply that I used these corrective lenses to pass the ishihara colour test,These glasses do allow you to read the ishihara colour test,I would like to point out that these are not just a red filter they do change the wave-lengths of the colour spectrume,they have only been out for approx 3 Years,these are not Cheap costing approx.$1200.00 to $1500.00 AUS. Now these Lenses are Supposed to be "A CORRECTIVE LENSE",well if you can pass the test wearing these lenses Well what is the Problem?,As long as you are wearing them while you are executing your duties!!If most people are like me I do not have any problems seeing colour's without these glasses I just cannot read some pages in the Ishihara book,My problem is that these lenses are very expensive!!In most cases TWICE as much as vision corrective lenses and you can use these to pass any vision correction test,So WHY are we not allowed to use these "colour corrective lenses?",(Maybe there might be some Law suites in the future),Maybe we are just getting ripped of by the companies who make these corrective lense taking advantage of our "Colour Defiency".We need a chance!!
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Old 18th Sep 2007, 21:18
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Thumbs up Approaching my CAA [Gatwick] lantern test

Hello all!
I know I am colour deficient, but I have booked a CAA Class 1 Lantern Test at Gatwick to find out how severe it is as regards a medical.
Is there anything I can do to help raise my chances when I do take it, or anything I should know about the way they conduct the test?
Perhaps more importantly, what career options would face me with a fail on colour vision? I know I have good “standard” vision so in that respect its fine, and I already hold an endorsed Gliding Medical. I presume ATPL would be pointless?
Many thanks to you all for your advice!
Daniel
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Old 19th Sep 2007, 12:49
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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Dr Smurf,

First good luck with the tests at Gatwick. They will first do the ishihara test under a lamp. You are allowed 0 failures and must answer without hesitation. If you fail that then you will do the Baynes lantern test. This is a lantern where you sit 5 metres away. It has 5 colours, Red, Green, White, Blue and Orange. The lights are about 3mm in diameter and are only shown for one second you must name them all without error. If you fail that then you will do the Holmes Wright Lantern. This you sit 6 metres away and there are two very small lights in it (about 1mm diameter) the colours are Red, Green and white. You are shown a random selection and have to name the top and then botton colour - eg Red over Green. Again you are not allowed any errors, but if you make a non critical mistake eg name green as white then they will do the test again in the dark, but with a very much reduced hue. Thre is a lot about the tests in this section so I won't go further.

Should you fail these tests at Gatwick they will class you CP4 colour unsafe. You can still get a class 1 medical and CPL, but its limited to no public transport and no night. You can however instruct and do glider towing etc, provided you do not have paying passengers or freight.

There are another two CV tests that the JAA and thus the CAA should accept. These are the spectrolux test in Switzerland and the anomalascope. Be warned about the anomalascope, it is the daddy of CV testing (apparentley) and a lot of colour normals cannot pass to JAA standards.

Hope this sheds some light mate and good luck.
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Old 20th Sep 2007, 13:45
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Smile

Another chance.
I´ve had the lantern test in alpbach/austria. It was a beynes test. I can only say, try it.
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Old 23rd Sep 2007, 19:14
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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Its been a while

HI GUYS

Its been a little while since I have posted anything on this thread, although I have been lookin in every so often, and some very interesting stuff has been brought up.

Sorry to evryone who has recently failed the lantern tests, and everything that brings with it. I too failed them earlier this year, and had to come to terms with not getting a full CPL, or at least not in the near future. Iv started to look into how things stand in Austrailia, when I say started I mean started yesterday ( iv been very busy revising for my PPL exams)
Things look much more promising over there ......

Anyway, what I was going to say was...... Im offering my support in the attack against the CAA and there silly silly rules. As everyone else says, the papi lights are very clear and easy to follow in real life, why cant the just take us in a plane, and get us to point out lights, its a pratical test, and better than that daft machine at gatwck.

Good luck everyone.....


MATT
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Old 28th Sep 2007, 13:40
  #133 (permalink)  
 
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Hi all

I have just been reading through the CAA Paper 2006/04 – Minimum Colour Vision Requirements for Professional Flight Crew, Part 2, and see that the report indicates that the CAA themselves even think the CV requirements may be too stringent. So….my question here is, for all those who have failed the CV tests at the CAA and classed as CP4 (colour unsafe), have the right to uphold this CP4 rating and grant other suitable CV tests like the FAA have? I mean, if you have failed the lantern tests it should be acceptable by the CAA to use a field signal test.
This sort of question may have been answered before but I was just curious when I was reading through the report.
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Old 4th Oct 2007, 18:58
  #134 (permalink)  
 
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Hi guys,

I haven't logged on to pprune for a long time...as far as I can see this thread is up to speed like the old days.
I've passed H-W twice since I started my career. First time in Gatwick in 1997 which I found very easy and second time in Amsterdam KLM Medical Clinic in 2005 when my new employer asked me to retake the exam and unfortunately I found the one in Amsterdam very very difficult.I barely passed.When I went to Amsterdam I was very cofident cause I passed it before.But I think either the calibration of the equipments are not the same or the brightness they are using are different,when the opthometrist asked me what color are you seeing now? in Amsterdam,I went I don't see any lights so I can't tell you the color...the lights were so dim and reflected from a mirror.They were very helpful and let me settle in for a while infront of the lights...then I started the test and passed but by the time the test was finished I was soaked in sweat.
Anyways I'm taking the color vision assessment in City Uni in October,just for my self confidence,I'll be on a layover in London,I'll write you guys about the result and what it looks like compared to Gatwick and Amsterdam.
I believe everyone can find a lantern that he can pass somewhere in Europe.I don't belive all the lanterns are calibrated to the same standard.
Keep trying and never give up.

Good luck to you all
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Old 4th Oct 2007, 19:23
  #135 (permalink)  
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Adam, as you've probably read, the situation with JAA is as follows:

1. Ishihara Test, pass this and all is fine. Otherwise...

2. Choice of 4 further tests:
Holmes Wright Lantern
Beynes Lantern
Nagal Anomoloscope
Spectrolux Lantern
Pass any one of those, all is fine. Otherwise, you're . There are no further step you can take, no relevant real life tests as there are in USA and Oz.

Before taking my JAA medical, I did the Ishihara test at an opticians. I got 2 plates wrong, which is a pass according to the manufacturers instructions. JAA abuse this test, administering it in breach of said instructions and will not accept ANY failures. If a doctor was to administer medical testing in that fashion they would be struck off.

I then visited Gatwick to do the lantern tests. They only have the Beynes and Holmes Wright. I failed the Beynes. I then took the Holmes Wright, but what the sneaky don't tell you is that they adjust the shade of the colours. I didn't know this so despite thinking, "The last colour was green, this is lighter than that. It looks more green than white, but it's not the same colour as the previous green, so it MUST be white" - wrong, fail. Gatwick do not have the nagal or spectrolux. Helpful huh?

I visited City Uni and did a huge battery of tests as part of the CAA study (whose aims are to replace the current irrelevant testing regime with another similarly irrelevant testing regime). I was described as extremely mild, and they were very surprised I had not passed. I had a go at the Nagal whilst I was there and reached the JAA standard. This was not accepted by the CAA as it was not administered by an AME. Ho-hum.

In a fortnight I will fly to Zurich to take the Spectrolux lantern test (closest place!). I will duly report back as appropriate.

In the meantime as an IMC rated pilot I can fly in zero visibility, yet I'm apparently not capable of flying at night because I cannot pass a bunch of ancient and utterly irrelevant tests which are completely unrepresentative of the colour vision requirements in aviation today.
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Old 8th Oct 2007, 08:38
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second time in Amsterdam KLM Medical Clinic in 2005 when my new employer asked me to retake the exam and unfortunately I found the one in Amsterdam very very difficult.I barely passed.When I went to Amsterdam I was very cofident cause I passed it before
This is shocking. if every time you change empolyer he asks you to retake a lantern test then what? And as Thrustidle74 said, he found the second one harder for a reason.

On a following post, Thrustidle you said, that the employer who asked you to retake the test was outside europe though on the first one you said it was KLM.Could you specify this once more please?

I believe everyone can find a lantern that he can pass somewhere in Europe.I don't belive all the lanterns are calibrated to the same standard.
Keep trying and never give up
I believe that is true, DO NOT give up trying

PS I'm sure that many more people are watching this thread closely, but only a few of them post here , so let's keep it up and running.
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Old 14th Oct 2007, 08:06
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Hi mate,
There is not any mistake restriction in taking the other tests (lantern tests). even if you did only one mistake you would have to do a lantern test.
Try reading past posts, there are many thing you will learn about this kind of problem.

Good luck and don't give up!
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Old 15th Oct 2007, 08:41
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bypilot,

The JAA do not allow any mistakes 0 mistakes at either ishihara or the Baynes, Holmes Wright or Spectrolux lanterns. The Anomalascope is VERY hard and even a lot of colour normal pilots will not be able to pass to JAA standards.

The Tower Light Signal test is for FAA (USA) Transport Canada (Canadian) and CASA (Australia). It is NOT accepted by the JAA and nor are their medicals or licences.

In short if you want a JAA licence you need ZERO errors at either ishihara, Baynes, Holmes Wright, Spectrolux or a pass at JAA standards on the Anomalascope.

A word of advice. Try to get an "unofficial" test done before taking the real thing as if your country is like the UK, you will only have one chance. and the lantern tests are not easy!

All the best to you and your future career and never give up trying.
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Old 21st Oct 2007, 08:34
  #139 (permalink)  
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guys y are u making a big deal out of it?
You passed the lantern test. Congratulations. The reason this thread exists is that most of us didn't. Does this mean we are unsafe to fly? No. Does this in fact mean anything? Yes - It means we failed a farcical, utterly irrelevant test bearing absolutely no reflection to the real life requirements of a pilot in terms of colour vision. It is farcical to the extent that it is failed by substantial numbers of people with perfect colour vision.

So if you want to know why we're making such a big deal out of it, spend a couple of days reading this thread (and its original).
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Old 22nd Oct 2007, 08:54
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Gentlemen. For me this is a beautiful day. I join you from Starbucks in Zurich city centre having just caught the train from Dubendorf where I successfully passed the Spectrolux lantern test.

Having taken every other test available, this really was the last chance saloon under the current ludicrously irrelevant JAA testing and evaluation regime. Despite the sweaty palms I was put at ease and went through the test with zero mistakes.

Whilst obviously I am now happy, I am also angry, disillusioned and disappointed that I had to go this far to reach my goal. The money I have had to expend on flights, trains, hotels, test fees amounts to a full ATPL groundschool package!! Not to mention the time off work to go to Gatwick, to go to City Uni... the list goes on.

If anything this has made me more resolute than ever to pursue an agenda of change and modernisation in terms of colour vision testing.

Best regards,
Shunter (CP3 - Colour Safe, finally!)
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