Extreme pain in forehead during descent/landing
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alright!
Food poisoned twice by same curry house in Bristol, after 24 hours playing the porcelain trombone I thought "I'll have them for this" & set about phoning public health. Being in the trade I thought this would be easy, but no! No one in the hospital knew how to get hold of them (can you think of a better job to have!) so in desperation I phoned NHS direct. They were very helpful, kept me on the phone for 30 minutes sounding very concerned & told me they would find the number & phone me back straight away. After 2 hours I got impatient & finally discovered that you had to phone them via the Great Western Ambulance service (work that one out)!!
When I finally got through it was straight to a consultant who said "my God I eat there- I'll have it inspected immediately!" and, feeling satisfied, I hung up & forgot about it.
Eight hours later, the phone rings - "This is NHS direct, just to let you know that we can't find out how to contact public health....."
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Food poisoned twice by same curry house in Bristol, after 24 hours playing the porcelain trombone I thought "I'll have them for this" & set about phoning public health. Being in the trade I thought this would be easy, but no! No one in the hospital knew how to get hold of them (can you think of a better job to have!) so in desperation I phoned NHS direct. They were very helpful, kept me on the phone for 30 minutes sounding very concerned & told me they would find the number & phone me back straight away. After 2 hours I got impatient & finally discovered that you had to phone them via the Great Western Ambulance service (work that one out)!!
When I finally got through it was straight to a consultant who said "my God I eat there- I'll have it inspected immediately!" and, feeling satisfied, I hung up & forgot about it.
Eight hours later, the phone rings - "This is NHS direct, just to let you know that we can't find out how to contact public health....."
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/164/3...aac66ef6_m.jpg
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Thanks for posting!
On a commercial flight from KS to Dallas @ 32K it felt like someone stuck a hot needle in my forehead right above my right eye. I've had nearly a dozen broken bones, burns, concussion, stitches etc... and this TOOK my BREATH away. I went to the restroom to see if a vein had blown in my eye or if I had a bruise where it had popped under the skin. Had never heard of "barotrauma" and was glad to get an answer because I was a little freaked (my younger sister just had a stroke).
Psychophysiological entity
Do a search of Loose rivets - this forum - Any date - and put in salt as the search word, you should find a lot about the after treatment and pressure relief that saline solution can give.
It describes hanging upside down with a head full of sterile salty water, and forcing it into the cavities. This has saved my bacon on a couple of occasions where the antibiotic was subduing the infection, but not really clearing the passages.
Just edit to say, I stormed out of a very good job once after more pain than I could handle. Fine on the ground, in agony in the air - only to be fine once I landed again. They just never let people get better before pressuring them to fly, and I will never forget just how much it hurt.
It describes hanging upside down with a head full of sterile salty water, and forcing it into the cavities. This has saved my bacon on a couple of occasions where the antibiotic was subduing the infection, but not really clearing the passages.
Just edit to say, I stormed out of a very good job once after more pain than I could handle. Fine on the ground, in agony in the air - only to be fine once I landed again. They just never let people get better before pressuring them to fly, and I will never forget just how much it hurt.
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Old topic - however I'm due to fly in 11 days. All my life, i've never had any problems with flying but about 4 months ago, 6 out of the 8 flights I was on I experienced this pain. Half of these flights were seperated by a month. I won't go into the pain since it seems to be covered well enough on here - though I will say the first time I experienced it I thought my head was going to explode.
I want to be a pilot in the future and the fact that I had absolutely no problems at all until a few months ago makes me think something is getting worse. I've had dodgy sinuses for a few years which I think came on around the time I went abroad for a few months (could it be because of sleeping under the air conditioning there?)., although I'm not so sure. Either way, my left nasal passage feels like something is flapping around inside all too often - like a permanent bogey (sorry!) - and one of the passages is completely blocked. I say one because, the weird thing is, it changes throughout the day. Currently as I write, it's the left one that I can't breath in/out.
Anyway, I went to the doctors in the UK as soon as I got back from my trip a few months ago, though I'm still waiting for the ENT appointment to come through the post. Looks like I won't get it in time for flying anyway. No doubt this 'thing' will come to haunt me during descent on all of the flights - though this time it is only 4 flights.
I'm certainly not looking forward to it - and I love flying. I'll try some of the suggestions posted here, though if anyone else has methods that have worked, I'd love to hear them!
I want to be a pilot in the future and the fact that I had absolutely no problems at all until a few months ago makes me think something is getting worse. I've had dodgy sinuses for a few years which I think came on around the time I went abroad for a few months (could it be because of sleeping under the air conditioning there?)., although I'm not so sure. Either way, my left nasal passage feels like something is flapping around inside all too often - like a permanent bogey (sorry!) - and one of the passages is completely blocked. I say one because, the weird thing is, it changes throughout the day. Currently as I write, it's the left one that I can't breath in/out.
Anyway, I went to the doctors in the UK as soon as I got back from my trip a few months ago, though I'm still waiting for the ENT appointment to come through the post. Looks like I won't get it in time for flying anyway. No doubt this 'thing' will come to haunt me during descent on all of the flights - though this time it is only 4 flights.
I'm certainly not looking forward to it - and I love flying. I'll try some of the suggestions posted here, though if anyone else has methods that have worked, I'd love to hear them!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
due to fly in 11 days. . . . the pain . . .my head was going to explode.
. . .dodgy sinuses for a few years
. . . went to the doctors in the UK . . .still waiting for the ENT appointment
. . . I'll try some of the suggestions posted here, though if anyone else has methods that have worked, I'd love to hear them!
. . .dodgy sinuses for a few years
. . . went to the doctors in the UK . . .still waiting for the ENT appointment
. . . I'll try some of the suggestions posted here, though if anyone else has methods that have worked, I'd love to hear them!
OTOH learning more about the physiology will not hurt you.
Just keep taking the pills and let ENT do the bizz.
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I have the cure for this!!
Ok Folks, I have also experienced the same symptoms along with the same excruciating pain that goes with this 'Baratrama'. It is real, and it hurts beyond belief! You feel like your head is going to explode! I just flew from ATL to BOS this last week, but feared this would happen again, so this is what I did to eliminate this problem. I used a simple home ear wax removal kit to ascertain that I had no build up of wax in my ears, then I checked with a pharmacist that was completely aware of Baratrama, and he told me that was the right thing to do and along with it, you need to take 1 Sudafed tablet. I did just that and yes, this cured the problem we have all spoke about here! See, whether we want to admit it or not, either you have major sinus problems (in which I have never had ever!), or you produce more wax in your ears than you realize. I have always known that I do produce (for whatever reason...lol), more ear wax than the normal person and I had a feeling that was a major contributor and it sure was! See, when your in the plane and gaining altitude on take off, the pressure is going in your eustachian tubes and sinuses and you can easily handle it going in like everyone has spoken of here, but on the decent, all that pressure has to come out and if you have major build up of wax, it is usually thick and gunky and can easily block the tubes and not allow the pressure to escape as it should naturally as you swallow or move your jaw forward like everyone else (almost like blocking it with gum...). Same thing applies if you have (naturally) major sinus issues or blockage, it can create the same effect. But if you are not sure if it might be your sinus area or wax buildup, just do both of these things like I did and you will now fly FREE OF PAIN...it works wonderfully!! Just write to me if anyone needs more details of how to use the ear wax kit...I do it a little different than what the directions say, but I always get nice big chunks of wax out and now do it aprox twice a year to ascertain I will always keep my ears free of any future wax build up! Just want to thank everyone hear for posting this forum....like most of you, I thought it was unique to me, but so happy to hear many, many folks have the same issue!! Happy Flying!
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dear suffering man:
one...spend the mone and see at least three doctors on the subject
two...keep a log book and see if you can find other factors as you may have HAY FEVER or ALLERGIES...
three...find a book called: sinus survival
I am a pilot...terrible time living in the eastern US as I had many allergies...ended up taking weekly allergy shots (injections) and it helped a great deal.
AFRIN nasal mist should be on your person if possible for all flights in case of emergencies...but beware the rebound effect which will make things worse in the future.
also, try very long hot showers to allow some relief from swelling of the nasal passages.
I had to consult doctors in Boston, San francisco, and Washington DC before I found my cure.
Good luck...are you French?
one...spend the mone and see at least three doctors on the subject
two...keep a log book and see if you can find other factors as you may have HAY FEVER or ALLERGIES...
three...find a book called: sinus survival
I am a pilot...terrible time living in the eastern US as I had many allergies...ended up taking weekly allergy shots (injections) and it helped a great deal.
AFRIN nasal mist should be on your person if possible for all flights in case of emergencies...but beware the rebound effect which will make things worse in the future.
also, try very long hot showers to allow some relief from swelling of the nasal passages.
I had to consult doctors in Boston, San francisco, and Washington DC before I found my cure.
Good luck...are you French?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Bill2 is confusing buildup of wax in the ear and otitic barotrauma which affects the eustasian tubes. Read Extreme pain in forehead during descent/landing - Page 2 - PPRuNe Forums more here.
Wax forms in the outer ear which is separated in healthy ears from the middle ear by the tympanic membrane.
The barotrauma affects both the inner ear and the sinuses and sudafed may help relieve the inflamation of the eustasian tubes. The better solution however is DO NOT FLY. If you do fly with inflamed eustasian tubes and manage to clear them thus relieving pressure on the tympanic membrane and open up the sinus cavity you will relieve the pain in the short term but risk allowing infection in to the sinuses and the middle ear. This might need anti-biotics to clear up and could affect your flying for days or even weeks.
What wax might do in the CLIMB is to allow a build up of pressure in the outer ear while the pressure in the inner ear drops with the drop in air pressure. In the descent the outer ear will have eventually equalised with the lower pressure but there will be a natural increase in pressure in the middle ear. This is the reverse process from the blocked eustasian tubes. While it can be painful it is less likely to result in a barotrauma. You will still suffer from cloth ears though.
Another less frequent condition occurs if you have been breathing pure oxygen. The air in the inner ear is displaced by oxygen which is more easily absorbed in to the blood stream. After flight the oxygen continues to be absorbed thus reducing the pressure and creating pain in the ear. This condition may be relieved by drinking beer, talking in the bar, or other oral exercises.
Wax forms in the outer ear which is separated in healthy ears from the middle ear by the tympanic membrane.
The barotrauma affects both the inner ear and the sinuses and sudafed may help relieve the inflamation of the eustasian tubes. The better solution however is DO NOT FLY. If you do fly with inflamed eustasian tubes and manage to clear them thus relieving pressure on the tympanic membrane and open up the sinus cavity you will relieve the pain in the short term but risk allowing infection in to the sinuses and the middle ear. This might need anti-biotics to clear up and could affect your flying for days or even weeks.
What wax might do in the CLIMB is to allow a build up of pressure in the outer ear while the pressure in the inner ear drops with the drop in air pressure. In the descent the outer ear will have eventually equalised with the lower pressure but there will be a natural increase in pressure in the middle ear. This is the reverse process from the blocked eustasian tubes. While it can be painful it is less likely to result in a barotrauma. You will still suffer from cloth ears though.
Another less frequent condition occurs if you have been breathing pure oxygen. The air in the inner ear is displaced by oxygen which is more easily absorbed in to the blood stream. After flight the oxygen continues to be absorbed thus reducing the pressure and creating pain in the ear. This condition may be relieved by drinking beer, talking in the bar, or other oral exercises.
Last edited by Bad medicine; 8th Aug 2012 at 09:26. Reason: Removed commercial link
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Whatever you do, please DO NOT slosh anything around your nose and sinuses as you run the risk of introducing infection which can be very difficult to get rid of and can, in rare cases, eventually cause meningitis or a particularly evil problem called Lateral Sinus Thrombosis. If you are under the care of a doctor for ANY condition please do not try, or use any form of Folk Remedy without consulting him or her first.
It may be a good idea to ask your GP to do your IgE levels for Dustmite which can cause chronic inflammation of the nasal mucosa.
It may be a good idea to ask your GP to do your IgE levels for Dustmite which can cause chronic inflammation of the nasal mucosa.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Wombat, quite right. Self-medication can worsen the condition.
GP-wise it is vital that you find one that understands aviation medicine as well. I was once prescribed nasal drops to be applied by tipping my head back and using a pipette to put drops down each nostril.
My barotrauma would have occured in an unpressurised aircraft in a high speed descent from high level. Aside from the risk of hypoxia had I removed my oxygen mask there would have been a loose article risk with my holding bottle in one hand and pipette in the other. Finally, with a helmet it would have been impossible to tilt my head back.
I was cleared to fly but the Doc was so ignorant of aviation medicine, and this on a flying unit, that I refused to fly.
For a passenger, if you get a sudden onset of ear ache man up and call the flight attendants. They may offer a decongestant and request the captain, as a medical emergency, to ease the rate of descent.
The bottom line remains DO NOT FLY.
GP-wise it is vital that you find one that understands aviation medicine as well. I was once prescribed nasal drops to be applied by tipping my head back and using a pipette to put drops down each nostril.
My barotrauma would have occured in an unpressurised aircraft in a high speed descent from high level. Aside from the risk of hypoxia had I removed my oxygen mask there would have been a loose article risk with my holding bottle in one hand and pipette in the other. Finally, with a helmet it would have been impossible to tilt my head back.
I was cleared to fly but the Doc was so ignorant of aviation medicine, and this on a flying unit, that I refused to fly.
For a passenger, if you get a sudden onset of ear ache man up and call the flight attendants. They may offer a decongestant and request the captain, as a medical emergency, to ease the rate of descent.
The bottom line remains DO NOT FLY.
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Interesting discussion- Been flying professionally for 20 years and for the past 15 on long haul. I have always suffered with sensitive ears, but over the past couple of years, have been suffering sporadic bouts of sinus trouble when flying.
Sometimes this can, perhaps be attributed to going in to work when one shouldn't (cold symptoms) etc, but not always. I had a particularly bad episode at the beginning of the year, saw my gp who prescribed antibiotics and a week off flying. I went back to work after this, thinking that I had recovered and all was reasonably well for a few months with only minor discomfort. I was also suffering from a buildup of mucous, which was causing me to continually throat scrape-unpleasant and annoying, especially for the wife!!
I then experienced another episode (Frontal sinus pain - pressure in the face - blocked ears and that horrible fuzzy headed feeling that is associated with sinus complaints). I thought I had inner ear issues (see other thread) but eventually this was ruled out as simply sinusitis symptoms. Back to the GP- more antibiotics and otrivine, none of which worked. I felt as though I had a permanent cold. I ended up sick for more than three weeks, the result of which was a temporarily unfit letter from the CAA, stating that they require me to be fully recovered and symptom free before considering giving me back my medical.
That was three months ago. My GP referred me to an ENT consultant with a particular interest in aviation related issues . I had a CT scan and nasal endoscopy which revealed abnormal (but not bad) structure to my left maxilliary sinus and a narrowing to the opening to my left frontal sinus. The nasal endoscopy revealed significant mucosal swelling and inflammation. I had allergy testing which came back negative to all the main culprits. Diagnosis at this stage
was chronic rhinosinusitis.
Although surgical intervention was discussed, my ENT was keen to avoid this if possible and prescribed a 6 week course of steroid nasal drops to try and reduce the swelling to the mucosa. Things appeared to progress reasonably well, until I caught a common cold which took things back to square one at the end of the 6 weeks.
The consultant then referred me to another specialist for a second opinion.
I was given a very detailed endoscopic examination. He decided that I should try a course of Pulmicort (common asthma treatment) administered to my nasal and sinus passages via a Neilmed sinus rinse kit, in the hope that this delivery system would get to the problem areas unlike simple drops and sprays. I am due to see him again in 3 weeks to acertain if this has worked. He has also suggested that I may be a candidate for balloon sunusplasty, to open up the left frontal sinus opening.
This is all very frustrating, I remain grounded until a satisfactory report on my condition can be provided to the CAA. I am feeling better, with the current course of treatment and am hopeful that things will have settled down by my next appointment.
Problems of this nature should be taken very seriously, I for one will never operate with the hint of a cold. When or if I'm allowed back!
Sometimes this can, perhaps be attributed to going in to work when one shouldn't (cold symptoms) etc, but not always. I had a particularly bad episode at the beginning of the year, saw my gp who prescribed antibiotics and a week off flying. I went back to work after this, thinking that I had recovered and all was reasonably well for a few months with only minor discomfort. I was also suffering from a buildup of mucous, which was causing me to continually throat scrape-unpleasant and annoying, especially for the wife!!
I then experienced another episode (Frontal sinus pain - pressure in the face - blocked ears and that horrible fuzzy headed feeling that is associated with sinus complaints). I thought I had inner ear issues (see other thread) but eventually this was ruled out as simply sinusitis symptoms. Back to the GP- more antibiotics and otrivine, none of which worked. I felt as though I had a permanent cold. I ended up sick for more than three weeks, the result of which was a temporarily unfit letter from the CAA, stating that they require me to be fully recovered and symptom free before considering giving me back my medical.
That was three months ago. My GP referred me to an ENT consultant with a particular interest in aviation related issues . I had a CT scan and nasal endoscopy which revealed abnormal (but not bad) structure to my left maxilliary sinus and a narrowing to the opening to my left frontal sinus. The nasal endoscopy revealed significant mucosal swelling and inflammation. I had allergy testing which came back negative to all the main culprits. Diagnosis at this stage
was chronic rhinosinusitis.
Although surgical intervention was discussed, my ENT was keen to avoid this if possible and prescribed a 6 week course of steroid nasal drops to try and reduce the swelling to the mucosa. Things appeared to progress reasonably well, until I caught a common cold which took things back to square one at the end of the 6 weeks.
The consultant then referred me to another specialist for a second opinion.
I was given a very detailed endoscopic examination. He decided that I should try a course of Pulmicort (common asthma treatment) administered to my nasal and sinus passages via a Neilmed sinus rinse kit, in the hope that this delivery system would get to the problem areas unlike simple drops and sprays. I am due to see him again in 3 weeks to acertain if this has worked. He has also suggested that I may be a candidate for balloon sunusplasty, to open up the left frontal sinus opening.
This is all very frustrating, I remain grounded until a satisfactory report on my condition can be provided to the CAA. I am feeling better, with the current course of treatment and am hopeful that things will have settled down by my next appointment.
Problems of this nature should be taken very seriously, I for one will never operate with the hint of a cold. When or if I'm allowed back!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
This is pretty much what I have been saying and might have happened to me. If you have a bad head cold you risk sinusitis. Once the tubes are blocked it is too easy to get germs in when you descend and the pressure increases.
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Well the steroid treatment has failed and now I am scheduled for balloon sinuplasty and turbinate reduction surgery. Fingers crossed that this will help to solve these issues once and for all
Psychophysiological entity
I'm sure I said somewhere in my hanging upside down post, to use sterile water to make the saline mix.
The trouble is, this problem causes so much pain it's hard to endure, and I was on my third antibiotic with no results. I learned it was notoriously difficult to treat some sinus infections and I simply had to resort to my own methods.
The relief was almost instant once that ticking creaking noise started. When the tick tick tick happened on the first side, the pain disappeared on that side only. I'd say that was a strong indicator of the localized effect of pressure equalization.
I would protest that this is by no means a folk remedy. Saline nose douche devices were sold by Boots for most of my life. But then, after a week, I'd have taken treatment from a bloke dancing around a fire with a bone in his nose.
Tilting head back? No use at all. Damn nigh on upside down is required, and if anything tilting forwards if complete inversion is impossible. But hey, in an aircraft . . .
The trouble is, this problem causes so much pain it's hard to endure, and I was on my third antibiotic with no results. I learned it was notoriously difficult to treat some sinus infections and I simply had to resort to my own methods.
The relief was almost instant once that ticking creaking noise started. When the tick tick tick happened on the first side, the pain disappeared on that side only. I'd say that was a strong indicator of the localized effect of pressure equalization.
I would protest that this is by no means a folk remedy. Saline nose douche devices were sold by Boots for most of my life. But then, after a week, I'd have taken treatment from a bloke dancing around a fire with a bone in his nose.
Tilting head back? No use at all. Damn nigh on upside down is required, and if anything tilting forwards if complete inversion is impossible. But hey, in an aircraft . . .
Interesting to read that others suffered the exactly same symptoms as myself. I had these pains for about three months a year ago, and nothing seemed to help.
In my case it seems to be somewhat related to hay feaver and food allergy, a combination of them plus a slight cold or alcohol which can worsen the condition steeply (by releasing histamine).
I managed to finally escape this hell by coming aware of my food allergies (yes, plural), limit alcohol intake to a minimal amount and finally taking a pill of Cetirizine about 8-12 hours before flight.
Especially the latter seemed quite effective to me as it blocks the effects of histamine in the body, which is a major cause for the swellings.
Good luck to everyone who's affected. I became fine some weeks later and the trouble never returned even with a mild cold.
In my case it seems to be somewhat related to hay feaver and food allergy, a combination of them plus a slight cold or alcohol which can worsen the condition steeply (by releasing histamine).
I managed to finally escape this hell by coming aware of my food allergies (yes, plural), limit alcohol intake to a minimal amount and finally taking a pill of Cetirizine about 8-12 hours before flight.
Especially the latter seemed quite effective to me as it blocks the effects of histamine in the body, which is a major cause for the swellings.
Good luck to everyone who's affected. I became fine some weeks later and the trouble never returned even with a mild cold.
Just noticed that in other countries Cetirizine is sold under the name Zyrtec or Reactine. I think it's well worth a try especially as it has little to no side affects. It's available without prescription in most countries.
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Suffered sinus's for years, ended up an afrin junkie.....never pain but it felt like someone left a rock in my nasal cavity such it weighed me down and utterly blocked in one cavity. In for a job next month, septoplasty, Fess, rhinoplasty too to straightened my nose......didn't duck quick enough in an altercation years ago.
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Sinus pain, forehead. Ice pick
I am writing this post on the aircraft and will be descending in a few minutes.
Over the last 10 years, I would get an excruciating ice pick pain in my forehead over one or the other eye. It was at my very limits to endure, clenching my fist and gritting my teeth.
Touching my forehead during this, just made it worse. So I would just sit there.
And it wouldn't happen every time. It seemed to be dependent on the speed of the re-pressurisation and the altitude the aircraft had been pressurised to.
Though sore afterwards, the pain would eventually dissipate as we neared sea level; I have an altimeter watch so it's easy to see what the plane is pressurised to and how quickly they re-pressurise it.
The most reliable solution has been a topical anti-inflammatant, oxymetazoline 0.5% applied liberally before repressurisation begins. One to two squirts in each nostril and inhale to bring it into the sinuses.
We've begun our descent as I finish this post. Wish me luck.
Over the last 10 years, I would get an excruciating ice pick pain in my forehead over one or the other eye. It was at my very limits to endure, clenching my fist and gritting my teeth.
Touching my forehead during this, just made it worse. So I would just sit there.
And it wouldn't happen every time. It seemed to be dependent on the speed of the re-pressurisation and the altitude the aircraft had been pressurised to.
Though sore afterwards, the pain would eventually dissipate as we neared sea level; I have an altimeter watch so it's easy to see what the plane is pressurised to and how quickly they re-pressurise it.
The most reliable solution has been a topical anti-inflammatant, oxymetazoline 0.5% applied liberally before repressurisation begins. One to two squirts in each nostril and inhale to bring it into the sinuses.
We've begun our descent as I finish this post. Wish me luck.
Jesus Aussie25, shouldnt you be looking out of the cockpit window, pulling or pushing the joystick and flicking switches when flying as opposed to posting on here? Glad I am not one of your passengers mate!