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-   -   New policing law going through parliament now in regards to protests. (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/639271-new-policing-law-going-through-parliament-now-regards-protests.html)

highflyer40 15th Mar 2021 20:35

New policing law going through parliament now in regards to protests.
 
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/m.huf...636ed337c4128/

Not sure if you can click on the story, but if you can does anyone see anything wrong with the new policing bill going through now in regards to new powers in regards to protests?

The police would have the right to stop protests if they become to loud or cause significant annoyance. I see nothing wrong with this. You want to protest then go to a park somewhere you wonít disturb others. Damaging trade to businesses, blocking roads, and generally causing annoyance to others should be against the law.

You have the right to protest but not to cause disturbance to peoples livelihoods who donít care or are indifferent to your cause.

It has been highlighted due to last weekends reaction to police action on the protesters. They were breaking Covid regulations and knew it. The organisers had cancelled the protest but people showed up anyways knowing they were breaking the law.... and were surprised and outraged at the end result? No matter how noble your protest you must stay within the law and use common sense. They could have waited a few weeks and did it lawfully.

This next may be distasteful to some, but had Everard been obeying the laws and not coming back from visiting a friend (in breach of lockdown) she would still be alive. Not to say that breach deserved what happened in any respect but then the protesters carry on the flagrant breach of the laws themselves.

treadigraph 15th Mar 2021 20:50


Originally Posted by highflyer40 (Post 11009329)
had Everard been obeying the laws and not coming back from visiting a friend (in breach of lockdown)

She may have been visiting her bubble, in which case she was well within her rights to be doing what she was doing.

In essence I am in favour of peaceful protest (and several years ago took part in a peaceful protest against our criminally incompetent council) but too many protests are driven - often not with any intent by the organisers - by a violent rent-a-mob thuggery who probably like a bit of mill after a football match, cause trouble in the pub, etc. The motivation may be far left or far right politics or simply because they are vicious bastards.

Police time is wasted, property damaged or destroyed and all too often people injured or even killed.

So if further powers (which surprises me) or more likely stiffer sentences are needed for unlawful behaviour while protesting then I am in favour.

Made me laugh that a well-to-do student lawyer was quite surprised that her career was in tatters after taking part in the London riots a decade back - she had helped loot a shop as I recall and nicked a bottle of water... People get carried away and lose control of themselves - best not to get involved in the first place.

WB627 15th Mar 2021 20:50

Thin end of the wedge. Welcome to a police state..... hold on aren't we there already :confused:


TLDNMCL 15th Mar 2021 20:54

Devil's Advocate
 
Surely the point of a protest is to be noticed, bring concerns to public notice and to disrupt, otherwise why bother?

I should add that I am not a great abvocate of them, but I grasp the principles which drive them.

treadigraph 15th Mar 2021 20:58

How about only allowing them to be held in football stadiums? Ticket only...:ok:

highflyer40 15th Mar 2021 21:01


Originally Posted by TLDNMCL (Post 11009342)
Surely the point of a protest is to be noticed, bring concerns to public notice and to disrupt, otherwise why bother?

I should add that I am not a great abvocate of them, but I grasp the principles which drive them.

See I would agree with your first and second statement, but wholeheartedly disagree with your third. You can be noticed, and bring attention to your cause by having a demonstration in a park, woodlands...wherever doesnít disturb others and invite the media. You will get on the news and serve your purpose while not causing harm to others. How can you protest against harm to others (as in last weekends protest) yet cause harm and upset to others at the same time? Itís hypocritical!

treadigraph 15th Mar 2021 21:07

So the park or woodlands gets trashed instead. The state of my local open spaces early last summer after people just looking for somewhere to walk had descended and left their rubbish was appalling. Many protestors don't give a bugger about what they're doing - I seem to remember that some Extinction Rebellion zealots were less than respectful for property and - ironically - the environment!

annakm 15th Mar 2021 21:24

Harry and Meghan’s protest about the Royals clearly caused significant annoyance to others. Should we have called the police?

747 jock 15th Mar 2021 21:28


Originally Posted by highflyer40 (Post 11009329)
It has been highlighted due to last weekends reaction to police action on the protesters. They were breaking Covid regulations and knew it. The organisers had cancelled the protest but people showed up anyways knowing they were breaking the law.... and were surprised and outraged at the end result? No matter how noble your protest you must stay within the law and use common sense. They could have waited a few weeks and did it lawfully.

But the police seemed happy enough to stand back and ignore some of the BLM protests that took place in contravention of the covid regulations:

what's worse and more of a risk to the general public, a nighttime vigil taking place on Clapham common or a mass demonstration taking place on the streets of London during the daytime?


WB627 15th Mar 2021 21:31

Or a follow up protest on Monday night because the usual suspects have all the excuses they need courtesy of the MPS on Saturday night.


VP959 15th Mar 2021 21:33


Originally Posted by 747 jock (Post 11009373)
But the police seemed happy enough to stand back and ignore some of the BLM protests that took place in contravention of the covid regulations:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1269265394772164610

what's worse and more of a risk to the general public, a nighttime vigil taking place on Clapham common or a mass demonstration taking place on the streets of London during the daytime?


The law changed between then and now. The government chose to tighten the coronavirus regulation at the end of last year. Some might cynically think that they did this specifically because of the BLM protests . . .

BWSBoy6 15th Mar 2021 21:37


Originally Posted by highflyer40 (Post 11009329)

This next may be distasteful to some, but had Everard been obeying the laws and not coming back from visiting a friend (in breach of lockdown) she would still be alive. Not to say that breach deserved what happened in any respect but then the protesters carry on the flagrant breach of the laws themselves.

I donít disagree with most of the other points you have raised, but I do find your final paragraph very distasteful. Sarah Everard didnít Ďdeserveí to be killed, which is what that comment implied - because you assume she was breaking the law! Anyone who is murdered is always in the wrong place at the wrong time, otherwise the crime wouldnít have happened. Had George Floyd not been passing counterfeit notes, he would still be alive. Had Jamie Bulgerís mum not looked away for a second, her son wouldnít have been abducted, had the Yorkshire ripperís victims not been working as prostitutes, they wouldnít have been slaughtered. Iím quite sad that you have used a womanís death to make a point about people not following the Covid rules.

highflyer40 15th Mar 2021 21:49


Originally Posted by 747 jock (Post 11009373)
But the police seemed happy enough to stand back and ignore some of the BLM protests that took place in contravention of the covid regulations:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1269265394772164610

what's worse and more of a risk to the general public, a nighttime vigil taking place on Clapham common or a mass demonstration taking place on the streets of London during the daytime?

Just like they did with the protest on the weekend. They sat back and let it happen. Only I think 5 were arrested. Both are just as bad as the other.

You denigrate your moral high ground if you break the law to do it.

highflyer40 15th Mar 2021 21:53


Originally Posted by BWSBoy6 (Post 11009384)
I donít disagree with most of the other points you have raised, but I do find your final paragraph very distasteful. Sarah Everard didnít Ďdeserveí to be killed, which is what that comment implied - because you assume she was breaking the law! Anyone who is murdered is always in the wrong place at the wrong time, otherwise the crime wouldnít have happened. Had George Floyd not been passing counterfeit notes, he would still be alive. Had Jamie Bulgerís mum not looked away for a second, her son wouldnít have been abducted, had the Yorkshire ripperís victims not been working as prostitutes, they wouldnít have been slaughtered. Iím quite sad that you have used a womanís death to make a point about people not following the Covid rules.

I thought long about whether to put that bit in, and in hindsight I shouldnít have. Although I didnít say she deserved it, I actually said she didnít deserve it, but you are right I should have left that section out.

BWSBoy6 15th Mar 2021 22:07


Originally Posted by highflyer40 (Post 11009396)
I thought long about whether to put that bit in, and in hindsight I shouldnít have. Although I didnít say she deserved it, I actually said she didnít deserve it, but you are right I should have left that section out.

Thank you for being magnanimous to accept the criticism. It is appreciated. Iím not normally over sensitive about others posts as Iím all for open and free debate, I just found this one hard to take. Maybe itís because my daughter is a similar age and there are so many parallels with Sarah and her - even down to their looks.

Saintsman 16th Mar 2021 11:07


Originally Posted by 747 jock (Post 11009373)
what's worse and more of a risk to the general public, a nighttime vigil taking place on Clapham common or a mass demonstration taking place on the streets of London during the daytime?

Although it was meant to be a night-time vigil, it wasn't, was it? It may have started with good intentions, but the organisers were very naive in thinking that it would remain peaceful. If it had remained peaceful, I'm fairly sure that the police would have let it continue despite the law, but as soon as the rent-a-mob agitators turned up, the police were in a no-win situation.

WB627 16th Mar 2021 13:44


Originally Posted by Saintsman (Post 11009757)
Although it was meant to be a night-time vigil, it wasn't, was it? It may have started with good intentions, but the organisers were very naive in thinking that it would remain peaceful. If it had remained peaceful, I'm fairly sure that the police would have let it continue despite the law, but as soon as the rent-a-mob agitators turned up, the police were in a no-win situation.

Did you see the coverage on the TV last night of the Westminster protest, not sure what time it was but the police started tweeting that they were about to take action to disperse the protestors. So I'm fairly sure that the police agenda was to send people on their way regardless of what would happen.


KelvinD 16th Mar 2021 15:24

I saw a few seconds in a clip on BBC this morning and lo and behold! Among the protestors was someone, suitably disguised with hat, scarf, face mask etc, holding up a placard saying "Abolish the Police". I wish the organisers of these legitimate protestors could deal with nonces such as that. Maybe tell them in terms they would understand to sling their hooks. They are distracting attention away from the legitimate concerns the protestors may have and leaving people with the impression the whole thing is just some anarchist bean feast.

VP959 16th Mar 2021 16:38


Originally Posted by KelvinD (Post 11009951)
I saw a few seconds in a clip on BBC this morning and lo and behold! Among the protestors was someone, suitably disguised with hat, scarf, face mask etc, holding up a placard saying "Abolish the Police". I wish the organisers of these legitimate protestors could deal with nonces such as that. Maybe tell them in terms they would understand to sling their hooks. They are distracting attention away from the legitimate concerns the protestors may have and leaving people with the impression the whole thing is just some anarchist bean feast.

I think we can thank social media for this. There seems to be a number of the "rent-a-mob" unhappy souls that scour social media for any event in the hope they can hijack it for their cause, with absolutely no regard whatsoever for any distress their actions may cause. If (heaven forbid) someone I was close to was a victim of such a horrible crime, and their memory was hijacked by this sort scum, then that would multiply the grief and distress immeasurably.

ORAC 21st Mar 2021 21:54

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-56477887

Bristol protest: Police attacked as 'Kill the Bill' demo turns violent

Protesters have attacked police after thousands of people turned up to a demonstration that officers had "strongly advised" against attending.

Officers suffered broken bones and police vans were set alight as angry scenes unfolded in Bristol city centre.

Crowds had gathered for the Kill the Bill demonstration in opposition to the Police and Crime Bill. Demonstrators scaled a police station, threw fireworks into the crowd and daubed graffiti on the walls.

Home Secretary Priti Patel described the events as "unacceptable". "Thuggery and disorder by a minority will never be tolerated," she said. "Our police officers put themselves in harms way to protect us all."

Avon and Somerset Police said what had started "as a peaceful protest" had been "turned by a small minority into a violent disorder".....


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