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bnt 16th May 2019 14:36

War in Australia (any Oz Politics)
 
I see that the former Oxford 1.4 litre beer sconce pot record holder has died today. He always believed that his beer accomplishment endeared him to the Australian electorate, helping him become the longest serving Labor PM with four terms.

Takan Inchovit 18th May 2019 22:46

Well may we say, ole Curly is doing a runner. He will now run his little show from the dimly lit back room where he did his best work and nobody will see his face.

FullOppositeRudder 18th May 2019 23:45

Well, well, well .. We appear to have an election result which was not altogether expected :eek:.

I almost feel sorry for Shorten. Poor bugger. He woke up yesterday morning expecting to be emperor, and it all turned to porridge. What to do with all that champagne ? (Perhaps they drank it anyway). There will be some sombre discussions to be had over the next weeks / months. Not the least of these will be in the board rooms of the pollsters...



WingNut60 19th May 2019 00:09


Originally Posted by FullOppositeRudder (Post 10474605)
................There will be some sombre discussions to be had over the next weeks / months. Not the least of these will be in the board rooms of the pollsters...

Same crew that predicted Hillary to win?


JustinHeywood 19th May 2019 00:10


Originally Posted by FullOppositeRudder (Post 10474605)
. ...There will be some sombre discussions to be had over the next weeks / months. Not the least of these will be in the board rooms of the pollsters...

Indeed. How could almost ALL the polls and the pundits get it so wrong? Were people lying about their voting intentions? Living as I do in a house full of lefties with a constant diet of ABC and Fairfax, a Labor victory seemed a scientific certainty.

Takan Inchovit 19th May 2019 02:17

Big mistake threatening jobs in remote areas, plus Mrs Brown and his boys making a cameo appearance kinda backfired. As usual the pollsters dont talk to the 'country rabble'.
Bingo! Herbert bites the dust.
I also see the ABC commenting that ScoMo rode in on Clive's back, but they did not mention their continual free plugging for Curly, provided by themselves at taxpayers expense. Can hardly wait to see the smirks of the usual ABC morning crew tomorrow.

Whiskery 19th May 2019 03:33

It's like mana from heaven. No Tony Abbott, no Malcom Turnbull, no Julie Bishop and NO Bill Shorten.

No miracle. I think the electorate is finally getting the message that THEY have to pay for the pollies promises!

Christmas has come early this year. Thank you ScoMo!

Pinky the pilot 19th May 2019 05:08

Whiskery; +1:ok:

SOPS 19th May 2019 06:46

What Whiskery said. 👍👍👍

Pinky the pilot 19th May 2019 07:52


Living as I do in a house full of lefties with a constant diet of ABC and Fairfax,
May one enquire as to the reaction to the election results from those assorted lefties Justin?

As Takan Inchovit has mentioned, I too wait with interest to see the reaction of all the usual suspects of the ABC.:E
However, what do fellow Ppruners think is/were the reasons that all the polls and various electoral pundits, journos etc managed to get it so wrong?:confused:

My view is that only part of the reason could be the (to me anyway) seemingly sneering attitude of 'shifty' Shorten to Scott Morrison's religious beliefs. And maybe, just maybe, some of the swinging voter types were a bit worried about what Australia would be like if Bill Shorten was permitted to 'run Australia like a Union,' which he had previously stated was his intention if elected!

I also wonder just how much the Aussie Voter believes that Climate Change is really something we can actually do something about!:hmm:

SOPS 19th May 2019 08:13

The ABC and the rest of the luvvies will be having a quiet meltdown. And my opinion about why all the polling was wrong... it is seen a crime to think contrary to so called popular views. Say that you think that climate change is a total crock and your are screamed at, mention you are not so keen on mass immigration and you are labeled a racist. These outcrys come from
a small but very vocal minority.

The silent majority, when asked, donít say how they really think, for fear of the backlash. And thatís why IMHO, the pollsters get it wrong, be it Shorten, Trump or Brexit.

Fliegenmong 19th May 2019 08:33

I had to have a giggle when Tony Abbot said (Before Bob Hawke was even 24 hours deceased), that Bob had a "Labor Heart but a Liberal head"....well never a more true word said...Bob F##cked over the pilot populace just as a Liberal PM would!...Tony's comments before Bob turned stiff were tactless tasteless repugnant AND yet TRUE!!....The Silver Bodgies actions were exactly what a Liberal response would be!!!...in fact just as howard did with patricks...you could go so far as to say that Bob Hawke was the Liberal Partys pin up boy in dealing with Pilots Industrial relations

I betcha the likes of Oldmeadow & Leigh Clifford LOVED what Bob Hawke did in '89...they would have been like pigs in mud!!!....... Liberal Party donors and shameless chairmans club members...

Fliegenmong 19th May 2019 08:57

https://www.abc.net.au/news/image/26...x2-700x467.jpg
'Helicopter Bronnie' and 'Tone'... in front of a 'name calling' sign...a classic reminder of just how lacking in decorum they were...utterly devoid of any 'classiness'.....chimps...


Pinky the pilot 19th May 2019 10:21


The silent majority, when asked, don’t say how they really think, for fear of the backlash. And that’s why IMHO, the pollsters get it wrong, be it Shorten, Trump or Brexit.
Tend to agree with that SOPS.:ok: Oh btw, how is your lefty Sister and her sandal wearing, lentil eating, basket weaving boyfriend:E:D dealing with the election result? Or haven't you been game to ask?:}

I know I wouldn't be game to even say anything!!!!:=:D

BTW Fliegs; Re your post above; (20073) Said in my best north Queensland Fishandchip shop owner voice......."Please explain?":D

Oh, and for what it's worth; Whilst I agree that it was not a good move for TA and BB (how I loathed that woman!!:mad::mad:) to be photographed in that situation, I still tend to have some sympathy for the sentiments displayed on the posters shown behind them!
May I submit that there was more than a little truth in the sentiments conveyed by those posters.

Ascend Charlie 19th May 2019 10:42

The green dills who took a convoy through coal and cattle country to try to get coal mines and live cattle exports stopped had the opposite effect of what they hoped for. And got their cars vandalised for good measure.

Fliegenmong 19th May 2019 10:55

Sorry about that...I don't know??...anyway...

Lets just see how the 'economic masters' fare when (if) the economy tanks....six years now of LNP at the helm...for at least the last 5.5 I have not heard a word of what they 'inherited' (the so called time bombs) and what they 'had to fix'....so it's fair to assume that what happens from here on in is the direct result of 6+ years of LNP management!??!?....will they 'own' it?....will they still blame K Rudd?, Gillard?...Keating? Hawke?..... where do you guys stop?

Hawke acted in a true "Liberal" sense....he acted as a Liberal PM would have done!.....yeah it was unpleasant for some...it was amazingly enriching ($$$$) for others...but Hawke acted like Howard did with the Wharfies...like it or not....howard would have done the EXACT same to the pilots union!!....and unlike Hawke...howard would still be relishing in the pain he could have unleashed upon you!

Probably one of howards big regrets really...he didn't get to shaft the pilots in '89...up agaainst a organised pilot union...anathema to howard...betcha he wishes he could have shafted us!...it is in his DNA!




SOPS 19th May 2019 11:23

Pinky .. her sandal wearing partner is her girlfriend ( have no problem with that), but there is NO WAY I would ask about the election. The screaming would be heard in Japan. ( They are still yelling at me because of my views on Global Panda Bear Heating .. or whatever itís called this week 👍)

WingNut60 19th May 2019 11:34

You've gotta have a bit of sympathy for ScoMo, having Clive parked at his office door for the next three years

CoodaShooda 19th May 2019 21:30

If you want to bring in massive reform, it helps to be both a popular leader and to have convinced the electorate of the need for change. Otherwise, we are a change-resistant species.

Shorten was not popular outside his circle of fellow travellers, who, coincidentally, were also about the only ones supporting class warfare, wealth re-distribution and economically destructive virtue-signalling about climate change.

I can't say I predicted a Coalition win but I have not been surprised at the result to date. Once Turnbull was gone, the game changed significantly.

I'm still waiting for the count to be finalised, however. We are currently using a computer model and there may still be some twists to come.

WingNut60 19th May 2019 23:18


Originally Posted by CoodaShooda (Post 10475200)
If you want to bring in massive reform, it helps to be both a popular leader and to have convinced the electorate of the need for change. Otherwise, we are a change-resistant species.

Shorten was not popular outside his circle of fellow travellers, who, coincidentally, were also about the only ones supporting class warfare, wealth re-distribution and economically destructive virtue-signalling about climate change.
I can't say I predicted a Coalition win but I have not been surprised at the result to date. Once Turnbull was gone, the game changed significantly.
I'm still waiting for the count to be finalised, however. We are currently using a computer model and there may still be some twists to come.

I agree with all of your comments.

Don't underestimate the general disdain for Bill. They'd have been far better off with, well, just about anyone.
I don't know who taught him his elocution but being able to run your clauses and phrases together would be a huge asset; make his every statement sound less as though it was scripted.
No spontaneity! No empathy! His bedroom conversation must be electrifying.

Hard to detect anything but ennui from Penny Wong on the ABC coverage on Saturday night.
If anyone knew beforehand that they were in for a tumble then it was Penny.
A pity; a very talented lady.




Clare Prop 20th May 2019 04:55

I thought we might be up for another hung parliament so it's good to have a definate result and not have the Clive Palmers of this world having a say.

Painting the people who negative gear as fat cats was a big mistake, as nurses and teachers are among the top seven professions listed https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-04-...pation/7357718 and ironically they are probably one of the few professions that are still unionised.

Fiddling around with people's long-term investments and retirement plans was never going to end well.

As far as I'm concerned it's no different to who wins the grand final as none of them give a stuff about small business, we are just their unpaid tax collectors. Though I must say the left are behaving a bit like Collingwood supporters did when the best team won last year ;)

Whiskery 20th May 2019 07:34


Originally Posted by Clare Prop (Post 10475331)
.......................... I must say the left are behaving a bit like Collingwood supporters did when the best team won last year ;)

Collingwood supporters are much better behaved than some elements of the Labour left Clare

Pinky the pilot 20th May 2019 12:29


If anyone knew beforehand that they were in for a tumble then it was Penny.
A pity; a very talented lady
Quite possibly, WingNut60; However, regardless of how talented Penny Wong may be; I still clearly remember what an acquaintance of mine now sadly deceased*, of Chinese ancestry, once said to me of people such as Ms Wong.

The last I remember reading of Ms Wong's bio was that she could not speak or understand any Chinese language or dialect!
My acquaintance remarked to me that such people ''would be treated like shit..."(his exact words) in any dealings with Chinese Government Authorities!:eek: His statement of opinion was along the lines that if you appear to have Chinese ancestry you had better bloody well speak the language.......or else!!!:=

And don't squeal racist, discrimination or whatever the current PC term is/was, because the Chinese Government would not give a shit!!:=

*Any old PNG lapuns from the early 90's would know of whom I speak.

WingNut60 20th May 2019 13:09


Originally Posted by Pinky the pilot (Post 10475574)
Quite possibly, WingNut60; However, regardless of how talented Penny Wong may be; I still clearly remember what an acquaintance of mine now sadly deceased*, of Chinese ancestry, once said to me of people such as Ms Wong.

The last I remember reading of Ms Wong's bio was that she could not speak or understand any Chinese language or dialect!
My acquaintance remarked to me that such people ''would be treated like shit..."(his exact words) in any dealings with Chinese Government Authorities!:eek: His statement of opinion was along the lines that if you appear to have Chinese ancestry you had better bloody well speak the language.......or else!!!:=

And don't squeal racist, discrimination or whatever the current PC term is/was, because the Chinese Government would not give a shit!!:=

*Any old PNG lapuns from the early 90's would know of whom I speak.

I don't doubt it.
But, not necessarily a lot more-so than if you're not of Chinese ancestry.

Any encounter will be along the lines of "What's in it for us. How can we divert ALL benefits to us. We don't care how long it takes, we want it all; and some"

layman 20th May 2019 20:57

Australia had some wins & some losses from the election ... Just a few thoughts:
  • Liberals/ Nationals / Labor - take your pick
  • Fraser Anning unsuccessful - not too many redeeming features
  • Clive Palmer unsuccessful - couldnít buy a seat
  • Tony Abbott - first rate disrupter but even a senior Liberal said his (excellent) concession speech should have come 3 years ago
  • Malcolm Roberts. Surely Pauline Hansen had better options
Whatever your political persuasion, yesterday the sun still rose, the coffee was good, & the golf no better than last week ☹️

WingNut60 20th May 2019 22:08


Originally Posted by layman (Post 10475902)
  • Liberals/ Nationals / Labor - take your pick
  • Tony Abbott - first rate disrupter but even a senior Liberal said his (excellent) concession speech should have come 3 years ago

I remember well a presenter at a seminar I went to in about 1975 who said pretty much the same about the insignificant differences between Liberals/ Nationals / Labor.
He firmly attributed it to the robustness of the Australian constitution, and the provisions that prevent it from being easily changed.
You cannot and never will have a government that diverges much from mid-field party policies which the current parties follow.

Be very wary of any politician who espouses making our constitution "easier to maintain".

Re Abbott, I liked Bob Hawke's assessment - "Basically a good bloke, but as mad as a cut snake."

dr dre 21st May 2019 01:34


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 10475958)
I remember well a presenter at a seminar I went to in about 1975 who said pretty much the same about the insignificant differences between Liberals/ Nationals / Labor.
He firmly attributed it to the robustness of the Australian constitution, and the provisions that prevent it from being easily changed.
You cannot and never will have a government that diverges much from mid-field party policies which the current parties follow.

That's pretty much correct. Australia rarely gravitates away from centrist policy. For political junkies and die hard supporters of each party they can boast and moan at election time and in between in the media and on social media but for the vast majority we hold our noses and pick whomever we can stomach the most, they get on with life and exclaim "all politicians are useless wankers".

Even more so to back this up is that the Two Party Preferred vote has never really been more than a 3% majority within the last 40 years. In 3 of the last 4 elections it's been less than 1%. From last election to this one there was barely any change in the vote counts. The nation is fairly centre based, more radical parties (Clive Palmer this time around) fail to achieve any impact. Whereas in other nations huge swings and vote changes of 20-30% are seen by various parties with more substantial differences at election time. Australia is far more stable, only changing between two parties which both essentially run the country the same way. Putting it down to compulsory voting, the preferential system and the Australian public's overall dislike of politicians.

WingNut60 21st May 2019 02:23


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10476027)
.........Putting it down to compulsory voting, the preferential system and the Australian public's ever-growing dislike of politicians.

Even the right-wing swing in some areas (Ginger and Clive) was just a re-allocation of otherwise Liberal votes. Similar with the Greens and Labor.
It has been a while since any Oz government was any more than two or three seats away from minority government at best.
No matter what your views on the disproportionate influence of the cross bench it is still probably much better overall than having a government with a 30 seat majority.


dr dre 21st May 2019 02:45


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 10476041)
No matter what your views on the disproportionate influence of the cross bench it is still probably much better overall than having a government with a 30 seat majority.

Last time we had a government with a majority in both houses they lasted one term before getting turfed out comprehensively (including a sitting PM). If Australians dislike politicians in general they especially hate them being given absolute power. With the current voting patterns that's unlikely to happen again soon.

WingNut60 21st May 2019 03:00


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10476046)
Last time we had a government with a majority in both houses they lasted one term before getting turfed out comprehensively (including a sitting PM). If Australians dislike politicians in general they especially hate them being given absolute power. With the current voting patterns that's unlikely to happen again soon.

Ah yes, Work Choices.
I'd not be surprised to see that one re-flagged and put up again.


Pinky the pilot 22nd May 2019 10:15


But, not necessarily a lot more-so than if you're not of Chinese ancestry.
With respect WingNut60; I would disagree! If you are of Chinese ancestry and cannot speak Chinese you will be treated with even greater contempt than if you were a 'round eye.' That was the statement as I heard it from my acquaintance.

And I had no cause to doubt the veracity of his statement, given it coincided with what I had learned from my time living in Darwin many years earlier, having Chinese born friends in the Martial Arts Club that I joined there.

criticalmass 22nd May 2019 12:17

So, where to now for Bill Shorten and Malcolm Turnbull?
Scott Morrison has a majority now. Surely, to stamp his leadership firmly on the Liberal party, the rapid expulsion of Turnbull must be one of his first priorities. With Turnbull gone from the Libs, and the Labor party having rejected him years ago due to his enormous wealth, that would signal the end of Turnbull's public life? Leaving him embedded in the Liberal party surely isn't an acceptable option any more?

WingNut60 22nd May 2019 13:07


Originally Posted by Pinky the pilot (Post 10477013)
With respect WingNut60; I would disagree! If you are of Chinese ancestry and cannot speak Chinese you will be treated with even greater contempt than if you were a 'round eye.' That was the statement as I heard it from my acquaintance.

And I had no cause to doubt the veracity of his statement, given it coincided with what I had learned from my time living in Darwin many years earlier, having Chinese born friends in the Martial Arts Club that I joined there.

My point was simply that the inscrutable deference sometimes shown, just as frequently conceals a more general measure of contempt for all things non-Chinese.
Perhaps with good reason, and acknowledging that it also often occurs in reverse.

parabellum 22nd May 2019 15:24


Can hardly wait to see the smirks of the usual ABC morning crew tomorrow.
I watched a bit of the ABC programme the morning after, (via the internet Australiachannel.com) and the collective decision was that Scot-Morrison had run a 'negative' campaign and the various members of the talk fest were most upset at all the 'negativity' the Lib Dems had shown in their campaign! Didn't understand it then and don't now, I think the Australian public gently woke up and on the appointed day said, "No Way".

We seem to have lost Hempy!

JustinHeywood 22nd May 2019 22:42


Originally Posted by parabellum (Post 10477225)
I watched a bit of the ABC programme Didn't understand it then and don't now

I too have been shocked at the some of the Op-eds and headlines coming through my newsfeed since the election;

"Labor lost on a crusade for fairness - what does that say about us?" (Fairfax)
"I'm young, I voted Liberal and I am not a bigot" (SMH Fairfax)
"The secret history of News Corp: a media empire built on spreading propaganda" (ABC)

The narrative being spun appears to be that if you didn't vote Left in this election you are an old, greedy bigot, easily manipulated by Murdoch as part of some Evil Plan for world domination.
Forget the fact that our national broadcaster itself has all but abandoned any pretence of political neutrality and has partnered with Fairfax to spread plenty of propaganda of its own; apparently this election was just good people (themselves) vs Bad People.

Instead of some introspection, the Green/Left media retains its smug self-righteousness.

TWT 23rd May 2019 02:31

Hempy is probably having a break after the election :ok:

https://www.smh.com.au/federal-elect...19-p51p0n.html

Pinky the pilot 23rd May 2019 10:27


My point was simply that the inscrutable deference sometimes shown, just as frequently conceals a more general measure of contempt for all things non-Chinese.
Perhaps with good reason, and acknowledging that it also often occurs in reverse.
I concede your point, Sir.:ok:

megan 24th May 2019 00:37


Forget the fact that our national broadcaster itself has all but abandoned any pretence of political neutrality
When you have the managing director of the ABC publicly telling everyone to vote Labor they have abandoned any pretence. Not "all but" as you say, as shown by their comedy program "Countdown to Glory", which ran for ten days immediately preceding the election, lampooning the Libs. Very apply named as it turned out. Shot in the foot?

https://iview.abc.net.au/show/countd.../LR1824V006S00

WingNut60 24th May 2019 01:17

As much as I (generally) oppose attacks on or proposals to change our constitution, one change that I would support would be FIXED, FOUR YEAR terms.
Possibly even five year, but I doubt that would fly.

I know that it has been tried before (1988) but in that instance the proposal was coupled with other far less palatable changes.
It significantly failed to propose making the four years a fixed term and thereby leaving the pollies with the ability to call early elections if and when they felt it best suited there purposes.
On its own, I think it may have got through.

As a wish list item, I would further propose that no budget changes be allowed within 5 months, before or after, the scheduled fixed term elections.

Ascend Charlie 25th Jun 2019 02:23

Been out of country for a month, but I saw that the retired general Jim Molan garnered the greatest number EVER of first-preference votes in history. But some idiot greenie got the seat on preferences.

Sad that this can happen - obviously a lot of people wanted to see Jim in the senate, but the behind-the-scenes manoeuvring between the parties meant that the most popular person didn't get a look in.


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