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Dark Knight 12th May 2020 01:32


(why does the name John Macarthur immediately spring to mind to mention but one?)
Yes, Why? Macarthur?
One really does draw a long bow attempting to link him to activities suggested of Aboriginal leaders previous alluded to or those within the Aboriginal Industry more interested in increasing their personal wealth at the expense of those they purport to help or whose lives they are supposedly improving


John Macarthur (1767 – 10 April 1834) was a British army officer, entrepreneur, politician, architect and pioneer of settlement in Australia. Macarthur is recognised as the pioneer of the woo industry that was to boom in Australia in the early 19th century and become a trademark of the nation. He is noted as the Farmhouse architect, his own residence in Parramatta, and as the man who commissioned architect John Verge to design Camden Park Estate in Camden, in New South Wales.

Biography: John Macarthur: Biography

Dark Knight 12th May 2020 01:34

Clearly time for a History Lesson:

New South Wales in the early 1800s is generally thought of as a place of unrelenting brutality and squalor: a harsh prison colony, punctuated with sodomy, the lash, rum, rum, and more rum.

But while present to some degree, these things make up only a tiny part of the whole picture. Yes, the place had its harsh elements – hangings and floggings given out as required – but it was no gulag archipelago. Most convict arrivals quickly found more actual freedoms, more agency, more capacity to negotiate, hustle, bribe or legitimately work their way to prosperity than if they had remained in Britain.

People were making money and getting ahead, some eager to return to Britain with a quick-fire colonial fortune, others just keen to start new lives here in NSW. Alongside the primitive frontier conditions there sprang up a thriving entrepot, a sort of hustlers’ paradise for convicts, ex-convicts, free, and military alike.

First place amongst preeminent hustlers must surely go to John Macarthur, and his on-again off-again officer comrades in the NSW Corps. Macarthur and his like
had no interest in maintaining the kind of discipline-and-punish regime generally thought fit for a “proper” penal colony. They were far more concerned with making money very quickly. If you got the work done for them they didn’t care how you spent your free time.

As well as the officers there were the convict retailers they needed as middlemen, who sold the goods, who happily jacked up the price, and without whom officers couldn’t exist. Then there were the convicts who’d arrived with trades and highly sought after labouring skills – carpenters, builders, bricklayers, blacksmiths. So desperate was the young colony for their freely available Labour that Governors started handing them their freedom – Tickets-of-Leave – as soon as they got off the boat.

Then, finally, there was a large class of convict and ex-convicts with no particular skills but who thrived by working as contractors, carters, laborers who hired themselves out at high rates. Many of these – shocking as it is to report – weren’t particularly interested in rationally accumulating wealth, saving and investing for the future. They were – even more shocking still – quite happy to simply get frequently and spectacularly drunk. Life in the new colony was not, complained various outraged moralists and clergymen, at all geared to penitence, piety and reform.

On top of all this, practically all the money to pay for all this was coming, directly or otherwise, from the coffers of the British Treasury. The colony was costing a bomb. Britain in the early 1800s was quite literally fighting for its national life, embroiled in the Napoleonic War. This meant that in New South Wales governors and inhabitants frequently had to develop ad hoc solutions to unforeseen problems due to a Home Government with far more pressing demands on its time and attention. It also meant that when London took time to look at their penal colony expenses bill they decided that it was well past time to crack down on this half-feral colonial outpost.

Something had to be done. Luckily they had just the man to send out to fix up the mess, someone with a reputation as a hard man, not afraid to crack heads. Fellow by the name of William Bligh…

Dark Knight 12th May 2020 01:38

THE IMPACT OF EUROPEANS: (History Lesson: Part 2)

From the day of his arrival at Port Jackson, in accordance with his instructions Governor Phillip did everything within his power to maintain as friendly a relationship as possible between the white and Aboriginal communities that would now have to share the land around the Sydney basin. There was never any intention or attempt to wipe out the Aborigines, to invade or conquer them and any such outcome which modern day Australians might determine as having occurred is based on our hindsight view of the outcome of the arrival of white man rather than the intent of the first arrivals. Such a view is the result on an ongoing lack of understanding of each culture by the other, which commenced with the first meeting of Aborigines of the Sydney area and Cooks crew, and which continues to this day. Phillip and the other First Fleeters took the traditional but erroneous European view that the Aborigines were savages of inferior intelligence, lacking in culture and education.

Ironically, the Aborigines had a somewhat equally condescending view of the newcomers; to them the whites were the ones who lacked the intelligence. The Aborigines followed a very disciplined lifestyle and culture which, by nature of the scarcity of natural resources, demanded that they live in harmony with their environment as hunters and gatherers. To them, the systematic destruction of the forests and the clearing of the yams and other vegetation from waterways, both of which were their main food source, was an act of stupidity that had to be stopped at any cost. Who could blame them for being bemused when the colonists began to fall sick from malnutrition and starvation after having destroyed what to the was the primary food source?

From day one, the Aborigines reacted to the new arrivals with caution, keeping very much to themselves and denying Phillip his desire to see them become part of a unified community. They stayed well away from the colony and attempts by Phillip to convert them to any aspect of the European way of life was quietly but firmly resisted. They continued to practice their way of life, doing what they had always done where they had always done it. The whites looked on in disbelief.

Judge Advocate David Collins recorded details of one of their first encounters with Aboriginal culture to which they had been invited to experience; a Kangaroo and Dog Dance corroboree and initiation ceremony held in February 1795: The place selected for this extraordinary exhibition was the head of Farm Cove, where a space had for some days been prepared by clearing it of grass, stumps etc., it was an oval figure, the dimensions of it 27 feet by 18, and it was named Yoo-lahang. The ceremony lasted two days, 15 boys from the eastern harbour clans were initiated as warriors by having their front teeth knocked out by the Cammeraigal tribal elders from the North Shore. Farm Cove was also where ritual punishments were meted out against transgressors of tribal law. It was here that Bennelong and Colbey, two of just a handful of Aborigines who developed close ties with the colony, fought a duel in July 1805. Bennelong was badly injured in the fight and eventually died from injuries received in subsequent conflicts with Colbey.

STRUGGLE FOR SURVIVAL

The exact size of the Aboriginal population living on the shores of Port Jackson when the First Fleet arrived is unknown, though Governor Phillip estimated the native population in the first few weeks of settlement to be 1,500. It is therefore fair to assume that the human population living around Port Jackson had doubled with the arrival of the first fleet. This had an immediate impact on the local food supply, especially since it would be some years before the crops grown by the colonists would enable them to reduce their reliance on the bush and harbour for food. With the delicate balance of their food chain having been broken, the Aborigines had no choice but to move out or retaliate. Some chose the former, moving south beyond Botany Bay or north to the Broken Bay area. Retaliation took the form of attacks on whites who ventured alone into the bush, or raids on the farms of the white settlers. One such raid occurred in 1805 when the Colonial Harbourmaster Robert Watson had his small plantation of maize stolen from his Watson Bay property by aborigines. In such instances, the thieves were subject to Whiteman punishment, though this form of justice was totally foreign to them.

For thousands of years, their culture had taught them they were part of a community and that the land and everything in it belonged to the community. It was beyond their comprehension that something growing in the ground could belong to a particular individual and that if someone else took it, they were stealing and would be punished. The white leaders had been generous in their gift-giving, which they intended to be taken as a sign of friendship by the natives. The latter, however, believed that, by being given some of white mans possessions, they had a right to help themselves to others which they hadn’t been given.

Phillip, like subsequent governors, responded warmly to the gentleness of the local Aborigines and attempted at all times in his own way to keep relations between the two groups friendly and open. Phillip forbade retaliation, but the peace was short lived and the influx of more convicts only added to the pressure. The colonists had no idea that their arrival and method of land clearance for farming was depriving the Aborigines of their means of survival, and the Aborigines only had limited understanding of the need to explain their situation to the Governors if they were to survive. One of the few such occasions when they did was when the tribal elders successfully petitioned Gov. Hunter for their own fishing grounds. Had more communication between the two groups occurred, the situation would not have deteriorated as quickly as it did. As the settlers encroached on their tribal territories, the Aborigines fought back in the only way they knew how. The whites, fearful for their lives at what they saw as a string of unprovoked, bloodthirsty attacks, responded in a similar fashion. Their superior weapons combined with their ever increasing numbers placed the Aborigines in a no-win situation.

The first attack by Aborigines occurred on 30th May 1788 when two convicts, William Okey and Samuel Davis, were killed by natives while cutting rushes at Rushcutters Bay. Their bodies were found by Capt. Campbell of the Marines and taken to the hospital at Sydney Cove. According to eyewitness reports, the two men had taken a canoe from one of the native fishing places. Phillip, accompanied by a party of armed soldiers, did not seek retribution whilst investigating the incident, rather he tried to show all concerned he would handle such matters in a fair and just manner in future.

The first major conflict between the two groups occurred in March 1789. Sixteen convicts had left their work at Brickfields and headed towards Botany Bay, intending to plunder the natives weapons and supplies while they were away from their camp. Aware of what was happening, the natives were ready and waiting for the convicts and set upon them, killing one and wounding seven. Two armed parties were dispatched the following day to restore order, resulting in seven convicts being given 150 lashes. As was his custom, Gov. Phillip did not punish the natives involved.

In October 1790, Bennelong, an Aborigine with whom Gov. Phillip had developed a friendship, became the first native to take up residence in the Sydney Cove settlement. Bennelong's action seemed to strengthen relations between the local tribes and the whites and his hut, built by Phillip on Bennelong Point, became a congregating place for Aboriginal people visiting the settlement. Reports of attacks by natives on white settlers continued, however, though it is not known how many such attacks were retaliatory. In December 1,790, a convict, John McIntire, and three other convicts had gone hunting in the Kogarah Bay area when they were attacked by natives. McIntire later died from a spear wound. In an angry outburst that was totally out of character, Gov. Phillip dispatched an expedition, issuing them with orders to capture or kill six Aborigines from the Botany Bay district. He issued the party with hatchets with which to cut off the heads of those they killed and bags in which to bring back the heads. Lieutenant William Dawes, who was part of the expedition, was one of a number who was repulsed by the order and at first refused to go. His disobedience cost him his close friendship with the Governor and resulted in his application for a second three-year term of service in the colony being refused. The 52-man punitive expedition failed to sight any Aborigines and a second expedition fared no better. The next major incident occurred eleven months later when Aborigines attacked 13 convict farmers at Rose Hill, burning down a house and murdering all the occupants.

In 1797, Aborigines in the Parramatta region commenced a series of organised raids in the dead of night. Their leader was Pemulwuy, who was identified as the murderer of convict McIntire. After one such raid north of Parramatta in which two men were killed, the white settlers banded together to form a common defense. After the next attack, they quickly armed themselves and followed the natives through the bush. At dawn, they came upon a group of about 100 who at first prepared to attack but fled when they saw that the colonists were armed. An hour later, a large group led by Pemulwuy approached the outskirts of Parramatta. Screaming in defiance, Pemulwuy threatened to spear anyone who tried to take him. When a soldier moved towards him, Pemulwuy threw a spear and all hell broke loose. At least five natives were killed by musket fire and many others were injured, including Pemulwuy who suffered serious wounds. He was taken to hospital, but in spite of being in leg irons, managed to escape. No attempt was made to catch him and there are no records of him attacking white settlers again.

It appears that the Parramatta raids were the first of many planned by Pemulwuy who had incited a number of Aboriginal groups throughout the Sydney area to attack their local white communities. Long after the Parramatta fight, an armoury of spears, axes and knives made by the local aborigines was found in caves near where the Campbell Parade pavilion on Bondi Beach now stands. It is said the weapons were made by warriors in the late 1790s in preparation for a major assault on white settlers which never eventuated. The Aborigines were the clear losers at Parramatta and the defeat of what were the strongest native warriors in the Sydney region broke the spirits of any others who had hopes of driving the whites back to the land from which they had come. Attacks in and around the settlements became less frequent, and by the time Lachlan Macquarie took over as Governor in 1810, they had virtually become part of history.

Though the physical conflicts between the two groups had altered the Aboriginal way of life, they had little effect on their numbers and there is no evidence to suggest that they were wiped out in a process that is today described as ethnic cleansing. Nevertheless, the number of Aborigines was dramatically reduced within the period of a few short years as a direct result of their lack of immunity to white man’s diseases. In April 1789, an epidemic of what is believed to have been Smallpox swept through the Aboriginal communities of the Sydney area, wiping out large numbers and in doing so decimating their culture. The source of the outbreak is not known as records of the day indicate there were no person or persons in the colony thus infected to spread the disease, nor had any such person recently arrived. It has been suggested that the disease may have been introduced in 1788 by an infected member of the crew of La Perouse when the French explorer camped on the northern shores of Botany Bay in January and February of that year. Others cite a crew member of Cooks Endeavour (1770) though this would seem unlikely as it is not a disease which could remain dormant for 19 years before flaring up and infecting a large part of the community. Yet others suspect some of the Smallpox vaccination serums brought out with the First Fleet were released either accidentally or deliberately, perhaps without the knowledge of Phillip.

Having no resistance to the disease and with no cure or vaccination available to combat the outbreak, the death rate among the Aborigines climbed alarmingly. Reports of natives found weak and dying around the bays of Sydney Harbour flooded in but authorities and medical staff could do nothing to stop it. The death rate in 1789 was around 60% of the local Aboriginal population. Because of their close proximity to the white settlement, the Cardigals were one of the first clan to be infected by smallpox. By the end of 1789, their numbers had halved.

It became a tradition for the Government to give each Aborigine a gift of a blanket each Christmas. Commenced by Gov. Macquarie in line with British Government policy to attempt to live as peaceably with the natives as possible, the Aborigines from the whole north shore region, believed to have numbered in excess of 1,000 when the First Fleet arrived, used to congregate in the coastal caves and overhangs to receive their gifts. By the 1830s, less than 100 blankets were distributed. The tradition stopped in 1868 when no one turned up for their Christmas gift. In the mid 1800s, the whole surviving Aboriginal population from the Sydney area had found it necessary to move south as, year by year, the white settlement encroached further and further into their tribal lands. By 1880, there were just 26 Aborigines drawn from all of the Port Jackson clans living in a mission established by the whites at Frenchmans Bay near La Perouse.

1st July 1790 to 31st December 1809
Governors of the Early Colonial Sydney

26th January, 1788 to 10th December, 1792: Captain Arthur Phillip, Governor-in-Chief.

11th December 1792 to 11th December, 1794: Major Francis Grose administered.

12th December, 1794 to 11th September, 1795: Captain William Paterson administered.

Sept 11, 1795 to 27th September, 1800: Captain John Hunter, Governor of NSW and its dependencies.

28th September, 1800 to 12th August, 1806: Captain Philip Gidley King, Governor.

28th September, 1806 to 25th January, 1808: Captain William Bligh, Captain-General and Governor-in-Chief of NSW and its dependencies. In 1808, he was unlawfully removed from office by officers of the NSW Corp.

26th January to 28th July, 1808: Major George Johnson administered.

29th July, 1808 to 8th January, 1809: Major Joseph Foveaux administered.

9th January to 31st December 1809: Colonel William Paterson administered.

golder 12th May 2020 01:48

It does read well...but...That my friend, is far from the reality of the situation.

Lookleft 12th May 2020 02:09


He arrived in Sydney in 1790 holding the rank of lieutenant and was appointed as commandant at Parramatta. In February 1793, the acting governor, Major Francis Grose, granted Macarthur 40 hectares (100 acres) of land at Rose Hill near Parramatta. He was granted a further 40 hectares (100 acres) in April 1794 for being the first man to clear and cultivate 20 hectares (50 acres) of land. He named the property Elizabeth Farm in honour of his wife, Elizabeth Macarthur. Grose came to depend on Macarthur's administrative skills and appointed him as paymaster for the regiment and as superintendent of public works, but Macarthur resigned in 1796 interests.

Macarthur was an argumentative man[citation needed] who quarrelled with many of his neighbours and successive Governors. He was involved in a campaign alleging that Governor Hunter was ineffective and trafficked in rum. The allegations led to Hunter being forced to answer the charges and contributed to Hunter being recalled to England where he fought to restore his reputation.

In July 1801, Governor King overturned a sentence of one year's imprisonment for Lieutenant James Marshall of the Earl Cornwallis, who had been convicted of assaulting Macarthur and Captain Abbott during their investigation into a theft. King referred the matter for trial in England on the grounds that the court had refused to hear Marshall's objection to an officer of the NSW Corps hearing the case. Macarthur saw this as a slight, and tried to organise a petty social boycott of Governor King and when his superior, Colonel Paterson, refused to co-operate, Macarthur used personal material to try to blackmail him.[15] This resulted in Paterson challenging Macarthur to a duel in which Paterson was severely wounded in the shoulder. Governor King had Macarthur arrested, then released him and appointed him as commandant on Norfolk Island to try to defuse things. Macarthur refused to comply and demanded a court martial by his fellow officers. King, realising that this would be pointless, sent Macarthur to England for trial.
Macarthur was granted land. The issue of Terra Nullius meant that it was ok for the Governor to just allocate "uninhabited" land. As Macarthur expanded his land holdings the inhabitants were just moved on. Governments can still compulsory acquire your land but as a property owner you will get some compensation. A lot of Anglos get very upset when this occurs because the compensation is not deemed to be sufficient. But of course they should just get over it and understand that if the Government needs the land then it must be for a very good reason. I could also imagine that if every time you established yourself and the Government kept acquiring your property then you would get very upset about the whole process that you had very little influence over. Over time as you had no more land to acquire and the Government just gave you money then your motivation to "get off your lazy white ass" would diminish. When asked to explain your laziness and lack of motivation you would probably point to the first instance of the Government taking your land.

Dark Knight 12th May 2020 02:34

`Over time as you had no more land to acquire and the Government just gave you money then your motivation to "get off your lazy white ass" would diminish. When asked to explain your laziness and lack of motivation you would probably point to the first instance of the Government taking your land.’

I suggest history and/or human nature does not support your assertion nor does further complete reading of Macarthur’s history/life support this.

People who take the risks, provide the capital and do the work do not sit idly by letting Government take/commandeer the wealth they create. They either find the means to fight the takeover, move on to creating other/new wealth creation endeavours or take/move their wealth/effort elsewhere.

The only ones who will not `get off your lazy white ass’ are those (i.e. those do not want to work, cannot work & will not work) who insist `Gummint’ provide for them clearly not understanding `Gummint’ does not have any money; `Gummint’ only has money by confiscating (i.e. Tax) wealth from those able to provide it by their endeavours.

Dark Knight 12th May 2020 02:35


It does read well...but...That my friend, is far from the reality of the situation.
What then? is the reality of the situation?

megan 12th May 2020 05:39


Hope you’re not trying to grab the moral high ground
Nope, just hate bullies, of which ad hominem attack is but one form, especially when it leads to folk committing suicide. You presume too much.

Fliegenmong 12th May 2020 05:41

The reality is post 263 is Waaaay to long to read! :p


golder 12th May 2020 06:06

New South Wales[edit]

1790s[edit]

  • July 1791 Governor Arthur Phillip wrote in his own journal that he granted 27 ex-convicts allotments of land at Prospect Hill and The Ponds. He gave them muskets which were utilised to shoot at Aboriginal Australians in the area. In retaliation, some of the British huts were burnt down. Arthur Philip then deployed soldiers to the area who "dispersed" about 50 Aboriginal Australians. Furthermore, as the allotments of land were separated by bushland which helped in "concealing the natives", the Governor ordered the woods to be cleared so that the "natives could find no shelter".[10]
  • April 1794 At Toongabbie an armed party of settlers pursued a group of Aboriginal Australians who were taking corn from the settlers' farms. They killed four, bringing back the severed head of one as proof of their exploits.[11]
  • September 1794 British settlers in the Hawkesbury River area killed seven Bediagal people in reprisal for the theft of clothing and provisions.[12] Some of the surviving children of this raid were taken by the settlers and detained as farm labourers. One boy, who was considered a spy, was later dragged through a fire, thrown into the river and shot dead.[13]
  • May 1795 Conflict in the Hawkesbury region continued and following the alleged killing of two settlers, Lieutenant Governor William Paterson ordered two officers and 66 soldiers to "...destroy as many as they could meet with..in the hope of striking terror, to erect gibbets in different places, whereon the bodies of all they might kill were to be hung ...". Seven or eight Bediagal people were killed.[14][15] A crippled man, some children and five women (one being heavily pregnant) were taken to Sydney as prisoners. One of the women and her baby had serious gunshot wounds. The child died not long after as did the newborn baby of the pregnant woman.[16]
  • September 1795 In the lower parts of the Hawkesbury, British settlers conducted an armed expedition against local Aboriginal Australians killing five and taking a number prisoner, again including a badly wounded child.[17]
  • March 1797 After Aboriginal Australians killed two British settlers, a large punitive expedition was organised which surprised and dispersed a native camp of about 100 people. The armed group then returned to Parramatta to rest. Pemulwuy, a noted Aboriginal resistance leader of the early frontier, followed them into the town demanding vengeance for the dispersal. A skirmish (known as the Battle of Parramatta) then occurred between Pemulwuy's group and a collection of British soldiers and settlers. One of the settlers was injured but at least five Aboriginal Australians were shot dead with many more wounded, including Pemulwuy. An unknown number of Aboriginal Australians were killed in the initial dispersal which led up to the battle.[18]
  • March 1799 Henry Hacking was ordered by Governor John Hunter to investigate claims of British sailors being trapped by Aboriginal Australians at the mouth of the Hunter River to the north of the colony. Hacking encountered a group of Awabakal people on the south side of the river who informed him that the sailors had left earlier on foot, endeavouring to walk back to Sydney. Hacking didn't believe them and became agitated, shooting dead four Awabakal men. The sailors later arrived in Sydney having walked the distance to return.[19]

1800s[edit]

  • March 1806 A group of Yuin people, resident to what the British named Twofold Bay, attempted to forcibly remove a gang of eleven sealers encamped on their land. The sealers opened fire on them with muskets killing nine, the bodies of which they hung from nearby trees to intimidate the other Yuin.[20]

1810s[edit]

  • 1816. Appin massacre. New South Wales Governor Macquarie sent soldiers against the Gundungurra and Dharawal people on their lands along the Cataract River, a tributary of the Nepean River (south of Sydney), in reprisal for violent conflicts with white settlers (in which several died) in the adjoining Nepean and Cowpastures districts, during a time of drought.[21] The punitive expedition split in two at Bent's Basin, with one group moving south-west against the Gundungurra, and the other moving south-east against the Dharawal. On 17 April, at around 1 am, this latter group of soldiers arrived on horseback at a camp of Dharawal people near Cataract Gorge (Broughton Pass). At least 16 indigenes were killed by shooting, and many other men, women and children were driven to fall from the cliffs of the gorge to their deaths below.[22][23]:7[24]

1820s[edit]

  • 1824. Bathurst massacre. Following the killing of seven Europeans by Aboriginal people around Bathurst, New South Wales, and a battle between three stockmen and a warband over stolen cattle which left 16 Aboriginal Australians dead, Governor Brisbane declared martial law to restore order and was able to report a cessation of hostilities in which 'not one outrage was committed under it, neither was a life sacrificed or even Blood spilt'. Part of the tribe trekked down to Parramatta to attend the Governor's annual Reconciliation Day.[25][26]
  • 1827. 12 Gringai Aboriginal Australians were shot dead for killing in reprisal a convict who had shot one of their camp dogs dead. [27]

1830s[edit]

  • 18 December 1832. Joseph Berryman, overseer at Sydney Stephen's Murramarang land acquisition near Bawley Point, shot dead four Aboriginal Australians in retaliation for the spearing of some cattle. Of those shot, two were an elderly couple and another was a pregnant woman.[28]
  • 1835. Settlers from the Williams Valley are said in a late report (1922) to have surrounded a Gringai camp and forced them all over a cliff.[27] A surviving band of the same group was hunted down and killed at the Bowman River. Unburied, their bones could be seen there for years.[29]
  • 11 July 1835. The expedition team of Thomas Mitchell, during their journey to the Darling River, fatally shot at least four Aboriginal Australians after an argument over the bartering of a teapot for the sexual services of an Aboriginal woman escalated into violence. One of those shot dead was a woman carrying a baby on her back. The casualties from this encounter were probably much higher as it involved five British men shooting at a tribe of Aboriginal Australians as they tried to flee by swimming across the river. Mitchell attempted to downplay the collision by saying that the sustained shooting occurred "without much or any effect".[30]
  • 27 May 1836. Thomas Mitchell was again involved in a massacre of Aboriginal people, this time along the Murray River. Mitchell felt threatened by a group of around 150 Aboriginal Australians and divided his expedition team into two groups with about 8 men in each group. The first group drove the Aboriginal Australians to the river forcing them with gunfire to enter the water in order to attempt escape. The second group of armed men then reunited with the first and commenced firing at the Aboriginal Australians as they swam across the river. For around 5 minutes, 16 men fired approximately eighty rounds of ammunition at the fleeing Aboriginal Australians.[31] It was claimed that a maximum of eleven people were shot dead, although this is almost certainly an underestimation. A government inquiry was organised into the massacre after Mitchell published his account of the incident, but little consequence came of it.[32] Mitchell subsequently named the area where the shootings occurred Mount Dispersion.[33]
  • 26 January 1838. The Waterloo Creek massacre, also known as the Australia Day massacre. A New South Wales Mounted Police detachment, despatched by acting Lieutenant Governor of New South Wales Colonel Kenneth Snodgrass, attacked an encampment of Kamilaroi people at a place called Waterloo Creek in remote bushland.[34] Official reports spoke of between 8 and 50 killed.[35] The missionary Lancelot Threlkeld set the number at 120 as part of his campaign to garner support for his Mission.[36] Threlkeld later claimed Major Nunn boasted they had killed 200 to 300 black Australians, a statement endorsed by historian Roger Milliss.[37] Other estimates range from 40 to 70.[38]
  • 1838. Myall Creek massacre – 10 June: 28 people killed at Myall Creek near Inverell, New South Wales. This was the first Aboriginal massacre for which white European and black African settlers were successfully prosecuted. Several colonists had previously been found not guilty by juries despite the weight of evidence and one colonist found guilty had been pardoned when his case was referred to Britain for sentencing. Eleven men were charged with murder but were initially acquitted by a jury. On the orders of the Governor, a new trial was held using the same evidence and seven of the eleven men were found guilty of the murder of one Aboriginal child and hanged. In his book, Blood on the Wattle, journalist Bruce Elder says that the successful prosecutions resulted in pacts of silence becoming a common practice to avoid sufficient evidence becoming available for future prosecutions.[39] Another effect, as one contemporary Sydney newspaper reported, was that poisoning Aboriginal people became more common as "a safer practice". Many massacres were to go unpunished due to these practices,[39] as what is variously called a "conspiracy", "pact" or "code of silence" fell over the killings of Aboriginal people.[40][41][42]
  • 1838. In about the middle of the year at Gwydir River. A "war of extirpation", according to local magistrate Edward Denny Day, was waged all along the Gwydir River in mid-1838. "Aborigines in the district were repeatedly pursued by parties of mounted and armed stockmen, assembled for the purpose, and that great numbers of them had been killed at various spots".[43]
  • 28 November 1838. Charles Eyles, William Allen and James Dunn (employees of Gwydir River squatter Robert Crawford) shot dead nine Gamilaraay people just east of present-day Moree. They attempted to burn and bury the remains but these were found a couple of months later. All three men had warrants out for their arrest but the Attorney-General, John Hubert Plunkett, elected not to take the case to trial, ending any possibility of prosecution.[44]
  • 1838. In July 1838 men from the Bowman, Ebden and Yaldwyn stations in search of stolen sheep shot and killed 14 Aboriginal people at a campsite near the confluence of the Murrumbidgee and Murray Rivers in New South Wales.[45]

Fliegenmong 12th May 2020 06:23

Post 270, see post 263...

Fliegenmong 12th May 2020 06:40

I'm more than happy to be corrected but the account of "Jonathon" in the first few paragraphs sounds like pure BS to me.

You may well be correct wingnut!, I was but posting an excerpt from something I'd found, and to be truthfull, more about because I'd kinda forgotten about Margaret Dupre, and then, seeing that was kinda Wow!!, I remember her now!!.....Vin de Rouge thread drift I think!!

JustinHeywood 12th May 2020 07:24


Originally Posted by Fliegenmong (Post 10779967)
..Vin de Rouge thread drift I think!!

Thread drift?
Here’s me thinking’ this thread is pretty much “pontificate at random”.
My apologies.

WingNut60 12th May 2020 08:02


Originally Posted by Fliegenmong (Post 10779967)
I'm more than happy to be corrected but the account of "Jonathon" in the first few paragraphs sounds like pure BS to me.

You may well be correct wingnut!, I was but posting an excerpt from something I'd found, and to be truthfull, more about because I'd kinda forgotten about Margaret Dupre, and then, seeing that was kinda Wow!!, I remember her now!!.....Vin de Rouge thread drift I think!!

I'm also inclined to think that her daughter being "interred" at Fairbridge might well have had something to do with her Mum's behaviour.

Fliegenmong 12th May 2020 08:29

Thread drift?
Here’s me thinking’ this thread is pretty much “pontificate at random”.

My apologies.

Sorry Mr Hemmes (?)

I'm also inclined to think that her daughter being "interred" at Fairbridge might well have had something to do with her Mum's behaviour.

Probably!...if I had a child "interred", & as a parent ...


But more than anything it took me back to a place....long ago...

I'd likely do the same!

WingNut60 12th May 2020 09:16

Children being taken from their parent(s) and placed in foster care as "wards of the court" is still a common occurrence.
It is and was done as a means of protecting those unable to protect themselves.

This not new.
All that has changed is interpretation and implementation.

As I write this I am mindful of the aboriginal girl, 18 years old and pregnant with her third child, whose body was found dumped in a wheelie bin in Port Hedland last week.

Fliegenmong 12th May 2020 10:31

I've no comment wingnut, whether you correct or not and care not to comment on matters of which I know not (Unlike some others who freely do so and in doing so reveal their ignorance! )

JustinHeywood 12th May 2020 12:12

My dear old Auntie Irene, as a young woman, had the job of escorting aboriginal children on the trains to Sydney back in the 30s. They were often living in circumstances that, even as an old lady, made tears well up in her eyes.
Undoubtedly those children are now considered part of the “stolen generation”, although I doubt she ever heard the term.

It’s very easy to apply today’s values to historical circumstances, especially when the injustices are highlighted, but not the circumstances.
I doubt previous generations were better or worse people than we are.

Dark Knight 20th May 2020 00:53

Did anybody have the misfortune to see Miriam Margolyes Almost Australian.

I had the misfortune to have the TV tuned to the ABC last night and the on came “Miriam Margolyes Almost Australian”, who ever made up the title is a genius as it describes the English import perfectly, 2 lesbians touring Australia in a camper van searching out our failings, the racism and hatred.

It went to an aboriginal activist house, A women who had been the first indigenous member of Victoria’s parliament for the green party, In the conversation she said she had no Australian dream and how bad whitey had invaded Australia, so Greta and her have both had their dreams stolen, she went on to say she was connected to country , I noticed immediately her opulent home full of consumer goods and all the trappings of a privileged life, she and her daughter was dressed in fine white man cloths and I should imagine she had a fine white man invented car, what struck me was her colour, she was just like me. I bet the people who elected her did because they suffer from white guilt. From her place of privilege she is connected with the bush, I highly doubt it

Last Saturday I had a long conversation about people just like her with an Aboriginal man who told me about what is happening to the real black fella’s, while warning me about people like this Greens member, he said it is rife throughout the indigenous grievous industry with activist’s absorbing the grant money in running costs and wages, while the white leftists and barely aboriginals are making decisions that suit their own agenda, Glen said the true black fella’s are being discarded in the bush as this political agenda holds his black brother back and keeps them down, he also talked about the overt racism that is applied to Aboriginals who do not conform to the activists political views, vilified and attacked for their opinion, their jobs threatened and their Aboriginality removed, exactly the same as In America, if you dare to leave that plantation they attempt to destroy you.

I have another idea for another show for Margret, she drives her van back to the UK and when she arrives, she does a in depth investigation into the rape, murder and trafficking of the 100,000 women and children that Islam is directly responsible for, but I already know the issue, she is a self-loathing white person who will never look at the reason behind these women and children’s abuse instead choosing to self censor when an issue arises that completely destroys there political beliefs.

Crownstay01 31st May 2020 07:48

Doesn't take much to trigger you, does it?

If a TV show featuring some doddery old Pommy thespian upsets you so much, why watch it?

If the Greens are so loathsome to you, don't vote for them.

If you don't like being called out on your racism, don't be racist.



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