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NutLoose 31st Aug 2019 12:04

I probably worded the food issue badly last night, but hands up I was on the vino collapso, what I was trying to get over was to those that were posting the percentages of where our food comes from and the EU portion etc and that we would starve were missing the fact out that it wasn't all one way, the U.K also exported foods to the EU.
That and of course we still would purchase from the EU, tariffs would change on some items, but to the same extent, being able to purchase out of the EU would also mean we could purchase cheaper, so some items may rise, but some could equally fall.

NutLoose 31st Aug 2019 12:17


EU fishermen having bought legitimate quotas from UK companies, l

I mentioned that a lot earlier, British skippers were keen at the time quotas came out to take a quick buck and get out of the industry. Those would either need to be bought out or be allowed to continue fishing their uk quotas. The problem I can see that some of the boats may have multiple quotas purchased from different EU countries and the size of the boats require the multiple quotas to remain feasible.

Fly Aiprt 31st Aug 2019 12:30


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 10558590)
those that were posting the percentages of where our food comes from and the EU portion etc and that we would starve



Not the same people are saying both propositions.
I for one quoted where your food comes from, but had to correct those equating Brexit to the disparition of trade with the EU.
It's all about food prices for the British households : leaving the customs union means tariffs on imports and so higher prices for your food.
Hence the notion that no-deal seems a funny idea.

Here's what your Parliament had to say on the matter (I know, I know, the Parliament, ahem ;-) :
https://publications.parliament.uk/p...om/129/129.pdf


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 10558590)
were missing the fact out that it wasn't all one way, the U.K also exported foods to the EU.

Of course : alcoholic beverages (Whisky !), chocolate, meat, fish (see my fishery post), cheese, etc.
Unfortunately that won't change the cost of food in the UK.


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 10558590)
being able to purchase out of the EU would also mean we could purchase cheaper, so some items may rise, but some could equally fall.


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 10558590)

It doesn't add up : if purchase out of the EU was cheaper, why would you purchase in the EU in the first place ?

Fareastdriver 31st Aug 2019 13:33


It doesn't add up : if purchase out of the EU was cheaper, why would you purchase in the EU in the first place ?
Because the EU, in order to protect its own famers, slap large tariffs on anything that is imported from outside thereby nullifying the price advantage.

SaulGoodman 31st Aug 2019 13:42


Originally Posted by Fareastdriver (Post 10558616)
Because the EU, in order to protect its own famers, slap large tariffs on anything that is imported from outside thereby nullifying the price advantage.

Allright. But if the UK does not “slap large tariffs” on anything from outside. How will you protect the UK farming sector?

Fly Aiprt 31st Aug 2019 13:43


Originally Posted by Fareastdriver (Post 10558616)
Because the EU, in order to protect its own famers, slap large tariffs on anything that is imported from outside thereby nullifying the price advantage.


Still doesn't add up : the UK is part of the EU, so to date its farmers are protected.
Once outside, what with not protecting your farming anymore ? Destroy your farming industry in addition to the fishing industry ? Just for the sake of not too much price rise on food ?

Exrigger 31st Aug 2019 13:57

Fly Airpt, I thought as much with regard to those links, but not having read them all was not sure if there was detailed facts included, if you are interested still perhaps these links might provide the information you wanted:

Here is a 2018 report on UK fishing fleet:
https://seafish.org/media/Economics_...Fleet_2018.pdf

General link, may be of interest:
https://www.undercurrentnews.com/201...gins-squeezed/

Some Government data, old report updated 2nd August 19:
https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...over-10-metres

Linked to this old government info, note Johnson appears again for those that can point out another of his past comments that he obviously got wrong again:
https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-pinching-our-fish/

And an old report from the Guardian for the sake of fairness:
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...n-michael-gove

Think I will call it a day on fishing, look forward to the next subject if it is of interest, farmers maybe. ;)

Sallyann1234 31st Aug 2019 14:23

Looks like government planning is going well, according to the Times.

"The food industry says that it fears a “complete and catastrophic embargo” on exports in the event of a no-deal Brexit after the government admitted that it had yet to apply for regulatory clearance required for selling animal products to the European Union."

And

No-deal Brexit: Farmers fear chaos as anxiety bites on the Irish border


Exrigger 31st Aug 2019 15:11

SA: I have searched through a lot of the documents linked below and have yet to find any reference to regulatory clearance required for selling animal products to the European Union, so wondered where they got that terminology from, I know that the times comment states 'the Government':

https://ec.europa.eu/food/safety/int...fairs/trade_en

https://ec.europa.eu/food/sites/food...tain_goods.pdf

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/exportin...u-with-no-deal

Fly Aiprt 31st Aug 2019 15:34


Originally Posted by Exrigger (Post 10558626)
Fly Airpt, I thought as much with regard to those links, but not having read them all was not sure if there was detailed facts included, if you are interested still perhaps these links might provide the information you wanted:

Exrigger, thanks for the links. I'll take the time to peruse them.
Just another press report which seems to be really well informed of the realities of fisheries.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9050431.html


"As soon as the UK government tries to prevent continental European fishermen from continuing to fish in UK waters, French (and potentially other continental European fishermen) are likely to blockade UK fish (and possibly other) exports to continental Europe by physically stopping UK refrigerated trucks as they attempt to drive inland from continental Channel ports."

Pontius Navigator 31st Aug 2019 15:53

EU tariffs on world food imports are designed to protect EU farmers across the whole of the EU. They do not necessarily protect UK farmers. The UK used to import early and late season produce where there was a consumer advantage.

The EU is able to meet this UK early and late season demand because of its geographic spread but not necessarily at a lower cost than the non-EU producer. Putting tariffs on the non-EU producer levels the market but at a higher price for the consumer.

In season produce in UK used to gain a competitive advantage over imports. There is no reason why this trade could not return except for labour costs. The competitive advantage would be lost through high wages or lack of crop pickers.

Fly Aiprt 31st Aug 2019 16:23


Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator (Post 10558698)
EU tariffs on world food imports are designed to protect EU farmers across the whole of the EU. They do not necessarily protect UK farmers. The UK used to import early and late season produce where there was a consumer advantage.

The EU is able to meet this UK early and late season demand because of its geographic spread but not necessarily at a lower cost than the non-EU producer. Putting tariffs on the non-EU producer levels the market but at a higher price for the consumer.

I'd really appreciate a link to allow me to check the the facts and better understand what the mechanism is about.


In season produce in UK used to gain a competitive advantage over imports. There is no reason why this trade could not return except for labour costs. The competitive advantage would be lost through high wages or lack of crop pickers.
Does that imply that the UK would need to resort to low wages ? Would that help attract British born crop pickers ?
Hardly sounds like booming business and limiting the number of foreign workers, does it ?


Una Due Tfc 31st Aug 2019 16:53

I think the main beneficiary of the prorogue and associated marches, coverage etc has been Prince Andrew!

Pontius Navigator 31st Aug 2019 17:20

Fly, our first early potatoes used to Egyptian. South Africa used to supply late season (for us), but our in season produce was lower cost as it was local. The EU distorted the price structure. You may remember the various mountains and lakes. Admittedly they have a better grip on quotas now.

My remark about labour costs was regretfully tongue in cheek. Crop pickers seem generally immigrant gangs. The EU ones may become scarce but the non-EU immigrants will probably continue. Native farm workers are a dying breed, too much like hard graft in all weathers.

LTNman 31st Aug 2019 17:31

Protesters hit the streets while the majority stay silent. An affront to democracy when Parliament was meant to shut down anyway for the party conference season.

Parliament repeatedly turned down Theresa May’s agreement and then failed many times to come up with any alternative but it is still an affront to democracy?

The people voted and now 3 years later it is time to deliver.

Bob Viking 31st Aug 2019 17:47

It’s an affront to democracy because it’s not what they wanted. Don’t you know anything?!

BV

beamer 31st Aug 2019 17:54

I don't seem to remember these self-serving 'democrats' in Westminster insisting that they sit throughout the scheduled summer recess in order to solve the impasse over Brexit; neither do they seem to want to give up their week at the seaside for their Party conference.

As ever the silent majority are busy getting on with their lives whilst the rabble-rousers, Islington luvvies and designer Socialists are parading up and down the streets.

NutLoose 31st Aug 2019 20:33


Fly Aiprt 31st Aug 2019 21:04


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 10558862)

Thanks NutLoose. It's nice to have people trying to exchange information on the matters under discussion.

Re the press report, to an outsider, this doesn't look like information but rather a 2-year old Pro-Brexit manifesto from a conservative politic think tank.

Among the supporters they are boasting about, we find this Lawson guy, who tried to get a Carte de Séjour in France...
That doesn't speak in their favour...
Not many hard facts, the paper could have been written by any Jo-Brexiteer here on JetBlast ;-)

But thanks anyway

Steepclimb 31st Aug 2019 21:12


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 10558862)

Dream on.

Anyway interestingly on RTE, Irish broadcasting from a very astute journalist, an actual journalist had an idea suggested to him. Freeports. Northern Ireland as a Freeport. BJ has already proposed this for the likes of Sunderland, ie Nissan. Make it a Freeport and everything made there has no tariffs unless it is 'exported' to Britain.

Only a fool really thinks BJ is a fool. A buffoon yes but fool no.

It of course a risky and the EU might not buy it. The DUP won't buy it but in the scheme of things who cares everyone else will.

Time will tell.
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