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Originally Posted by Fitter2
(Post 10428597)
Ah, but whose 'facts'? Three years ago the government and treasury facts were of an instsnt financial crash, mass unemployment, etc. Every forcast since then has underestimated the growth in the UK economy (and overestimated the financial stability of our friends in the EU).
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234
(Post 10428559)
Well you could start with those who think Britain could still save Europe as it apparently did in the last three centuries.
I concede the beer swilling louts that are reported regularly in the papers might evince such views. |
Pax
So why no second referendum , parliament cannot decide so ask the people again , democracy is all about being able to change your mind as David Davis said back in 2012. Even a GE is no answer as a GE determines which party forms a Government and not which Government will revoke Art 50 or press on. As they say, we are where we are. Parliament was charged with carrying out the will of the people and should sort out the mess. A PM, prepared to negotiate with the EU is needed. Kicking the can down the road for days, weeks, months, even years will only achieve uncertainty. Well maybe not years, 2nd 'meaningful' referendum in two years. Remain - we carry on as before. Leave - we leave asap, no Art 50 two year non sense. |
Originally Posted by Sallyann1234
(Post 10425449)
It's nationalist stupidity like that, that got us into the shit we are in now.
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SallyAnn et al
If you truly believe that the ranks of the Brexiteers are full of such people then I might counter by saying it’s the condascending, supercilious attitude of some that got us to where we are now. As a further aside I feel like mentioning how all of us (despite any claims of righteousness) voted for personal and selfish reasons. Which is absolutely correct. A guy I knew at work spent weeks preaching about how Brexit is terrible etc and a vote to Remain was for the greater good. He didn’t initially mention that his retirement plans involved moving to France and he was therefore very personally invested in the whole freedom of movement element of the EU. Sallyann. Do you reside in Germany or are you just visiting? BV |
Originally Posted by Bob Viking
(Post 10428892)
A guy I knew at work spent weeks preaching about how Brexit is terrible etc and a vote to Remain was for the greater good. He didn’t initially mention that his retirement plans involved moving to France and he was therefore very personally invested in the whole freedom of movement element of the EU. If his retirement plans were well advanced he was hopefully better clued up than many in the UK on the realities of FoM and passport control into/out off the UK, the euro, wether bendy Bananas were really banned from French supermarkets etc..In fact I hope he was seen as valuable resource in whatever arena discussions took place to balance some of the nonsense in the UK MSM...I'd certainly hope the information he came up with and his opinions weren't discounted just on the basis of his retirement plans. |
Exrigger
In my opinion, based on chatting with my circle of friends, colleagues and family, the option to exit under WTO rules will get more votes than accept a deal and together will attract more votes than the remain option, so that will not be the chosen version. That's true of your friends, my friends - everybody's friends. |
Wiggy, did you miss the word immediately?
It may be true that he was well informed but as BV frequently reminds us. Confirmation bias. A person, having decided on a course of action as being the best for him is unlikely to admit that their view is skewed and wrong. Not declaring their true position at the outset is likely to skew one's views of their argument when you discover their real interests. It is for that reason that Members are required to publish detailed under on their interests and public servants declare hospitality received. The latter also applies in many professions too. |
so what they say to you may be nuanced and exactly the opposite of what they really think. That's true of your friends, my friends - everybody's friends. |
Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator
(Post 10429048)
To a point, but I have certainly experienced in my club and my family opposite views and never the scorn and insults seen here.
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Originally Posted by Bob Viking
(Post 10428892)
Sallyann. Do you reside in Germany or are you just visiting? |
Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator
(Post 10429045)
Wiggy, did you miss the word immediately?
It may be true that he was well informed but as BV frequently reminds us. Confirmation bias. I'd agree there's certainly room for confirmation bias if our semi-fictious retiree simply went around saying as a simple opinion "FoM good, Brexit bad" . OTOH would you dismiss as say, confirmation bias if our now famous semi-fictious retiree came back from time in France and said: " Despite what the Mail is saying about trade restrictions I was able to buy New Zealand lamb and some bent bananas at the weekend in LeClerc in Calais/Paris/ Bordeaux/ pretty much any other large French town"? You can't simply yell "confirmation bias" every time you want a fast counter to a "Remain" POV, or observation...but I guess "project fear" is a bit worn out by now (For the avoidance of any doubt - you yes can buy all that stuff in Aldi/LeClerc/Lidl etc). |
Originally Posted by ATNotts
(Post 10429066)
... but I have one friend who is an ardent, flag displaying, brexiteer. We tend not to get too involved in discussion on Brexit as friendship is at the end of the day more important.
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I read this in my morning paper today and thought it to be very witty, one of the British Brexit protesters held a placard that read
"Ikea has better cabinets" |
Wiggy, my point really hinged on the failure to declare an
interest at the outset. The rest of your point is valid. Mine is one of distrust of someone that does not declare their interest. As you say hypothetical, what we don't know is how long out was before his interest was declared. |
So why no second referendum , parliament cannot decide so ask the people again , democracy is all about being able to change your mind as David Davis said back in 2012. |
Could some of those who favour Brexit tell us exactly what aspects of Britain's EU membership have affected them personally in an adverse way.
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Buster
They take £350M a week of our hard earned money that could be better spent on the NHS... I’m sorry. I couldn’t resist. BV |
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Buster11 I think having the EU to blame for anything that wasn't liked by the British public has resulted in our politicians becoming the most incapable shower for generations.
The lack of honesty by every British Prime Minister since Harold Wilson about the intended ever closer political union first proposed by Jean Monnet and Arthur Salter in the 1920's has ended my trust in our so-called leaders which ahs been compounded by out current PM making a fiasco of the leave process. The major lack of understanding by most people of how far the EU has intruded into our law and how, currently, British Law is legally subservient to EU Law. Your average Remain voter also has, in my experience, a very poor understanding of how the ECB can over-rule any European Central Bank and potentially demand funds from the 28 countries to cover the TARGET2 liabilities. So to finally answer your question, no direct adverse impact apart from not being able to fly EASA aircraft on my old-school CAA licence but I do think the move of "competencies" to the EU from national establishments like the CAA reduces the country's overall abilities to manage itself. Sallyanne that clip was excellent and shows that every Government needs a scapegoat and the EU was ours and apparently we were the Eu and the remaining 27's! |
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