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Fly Aiprt 21st Aug 2019 08:20


Originally Posted by ATNotts (Post 10550409)
Belgium is very much like Ireland, minus the hotheaded terrorists.

Except that there is no border inside Belgium, and no neighbouring state trying to draw it out of the EU ;-)


SaulGoodman 21st Aug 2019 08:22

Ok. So the CTA pre dates the Schengen area. Fine.
Now that the UK is about to leave the EU, don’t you think that the ROI may actually opt to join Schengen? Probably even more likely in case of “no deal”.




Fly Aiprt 21st Aug 2019 08:29


Originally Posted by NoelEvans (Post 10550374)

If you are a Romanian Gypsy and you have an EU passport you will be able to enter the UK directly as visitor, the same way that many other nationalities can do. You would not be permitted to stay though. No need to go all the way around through Ireland just to do that.

Anybody who is able to land in ROI would automatically enter the UK with no control whatsoever, no need for visitor's card, permit to stay or else. And would stay as long as he pleases.
The British wouldn't even know they are there.


Sallyann1234 21st Aug 2019 08:37


Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt (Post 10550438)
Something is striking in the tone of the article : they don't seem to say investment is soaring because of the Brexit, but gives the impression that this happens despite of the Brexit. Why not boast about Brexit attracting investors ?
Or is it a subtly anti Brexit press report ?

As reported elsewhere, the foreign investment in UK tech is happening because of the weak pound. Foreign firms are taking the opportunity to buy up British expertise at bargain prices.

When those investments develop into production, the profits will go back to the investors abroad. And probably the production too, as Mr. Dyson has shown.

What we are singularly lacking is investment in British tech by British firms, so that the profits can stay here. The CBI and other business organisations are saying very loudly that they have lost confidence in the future after Brexit. Unsurprisingly they are not investing, leaving foreign investors to buy up our future.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49413186

ATNotts 21st Aug 2019 08:44


Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt (Post 10550452)
Except that there is no border inside Belgium, and no neighbouring state trying to draw it out of the EU ;-)

It sometimes feels like there is!! As regards Ireland,the divisions are more evident within Northern Ireland. I believe that Protestants live quite happily in the Irish Republic without the fear and hatred that exists in Northern Ireland between the two traditions, where government has fallen over because one tradition doesn't believe it's reasonable that the other's language can have equal prominence. Absolute madness.

SaulGoodman

Interesting thought about Ireland joining Schengen. Were there to be a true hard border between N.I and The Irish Republic there would be little value in staying outside Schengen. A lot of water is going to have to flow under the bridge before we get there, including a potential referendum on the future of N.I. If that were to go the way of unification the whole question would become irrelevant.

NutLoose 21st Aug 2019 09:07


Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt (Post 10550452)
Except that there is no border inside Belgium, and no neighbouring state trying to draw it out of the EU ;-)

There is, at every airport. ;)

SaulGoodman 21st Aug 2019 09:12

ATNotts,

A hard Brexit was also deemed a very unlikely outcome. However after the WA was declined it has actually been the only likely outcome in case of a Brexit.

Although a “no deal” makes Irish unification more likely then ever before I do not see it actually happen. I don’t believe there is enough interest in the ROI for reunification and why should they? But I might be wrong...

HM Government actually said the CTA is seriously endangered in case of “no deal”.

Asturias56 21st Aug 2019 09:20

"I don’t believe there is enough interest in the ROI for reunification and why should they?"

A thousand years of historical injustice (real AND imagined)?????

One of the major problems with the English is that they see almost everything in Europe in economic terms ( a "nation of shopkeepers" no less) and seem oblivious to the emotional factors that drive the whole set-up

Fly Aiprt 21st Aug 2019 09:21


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 10550493)
There is, at every airport. ;)

;-)
Any map of that border between Northern Belgium and the Repub Kingdom of Belgium^^?

Asturias56 21st Aug 2019 09:24

"believe it's reasonable that the other's language can have equal prominence."

Come on! How many people in the Republic speak Gaelic day to day??? It's just another stick to show they're "different" from the English

But the N Irish Protestants are as bad - clinging to ridiculous out-moded beliefs so they can hate the other side.... My bet is that a united Ireland would be a total non-event once it occurred

SaulGoodman 21st Aug 2019 09:26


Originally Posted by Asturias56 (Post 10550502)
"I don’t believe there is enough interest in the ROI for reunification and why should they?"

A thousand years of historical injustice (real AND imagined)?????

One of the major problems with the English is that they see almost everything in Europe in economic terms ( a "nation of shopkeepers" no less) and seem oblivious to the emotional factors that drive the whole set-up

That was just my personal observation when talking to my Irish friends and co-workers. At least in the greater Dublin area I got the impression they aren’t that interested in it anymore. I might be wrong of course.

Fly Aiprt 21st Aug 2019 09:34

If the promised miracle doesn't happen, maybe unification of Ireland, and so being part of the EU will make more sense than staying with this finicky country across the Irish sea...
When - and if - the Brexit takes place, that is.

ORAC 21st Aug 2019 09:40


One of the major problems with the English is that they see almost everything in Europe in economic terms ( a "nation of shopkeepers" no less) and seem oblivious to the emotional factors that drive the whole set-up
To the contrary, and that is where others misunderstand the British.

The British were, and are happy, with their nation state status and independence. When they signed up to the EEC they were assured it was just a trade arrangement. It has been precisely as those intentions and motives have evolved that they have become more and opposed to membership. And it precisely the obvious intent to tie them into such intentions instead of reverting to the simpler trade arrangement they desire which has led to the present confrontation.

With all the talk talk about trade, ports, yellowhammer etc both sides are talking past each.

Krystal n chips 21st Aug 2019 10:05


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 10550518)
To the contrary, and that is where others misunderstand the British.

The British were, and are happy, with their nation state status and independence. When they signed up to the EEC they were assured it was just a trade arrangement. It has been precisely as those intentions and motives have evolved that they have become more and opposed to membership. And it precisely the obvious intent to tie them into such intentions instead of reverting to the simpler trade arrangement they desire which has led to the present confrontation.

With all the talk talk about trade, ports, yellowhammer etc both sides are talking past each.

Actually, the British, once we joined, would have been far happier if that well known British trait of telling the world what to do, how to do it, and being in control of Europe had materialised.......as it was, not everybody was, strange though this may seem, in favour of this becoming the status quo.

But, there is one question which has not yet been answered and it's a key one..........will Continental breakfasts be banned in the UK with immediate effect on Nov1st, or, will they be subjected to hefty tariffs as a deterrent to customers ?

Fly Aiprt 21st Aug 2019 10:07


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 10550518)
To the contrary, and that is where others misunderstand the British.
The British were, and are happy, with their nation state status and independence. When they signed up to the EEC they were assured it was just a trade arrangement.


History is sometimes a cruel reminder :

GB first applied for EEC membership in 1961 to try to get out of its isolation. At the time they were already asking for exemptions and preferences.
This first application was rejected by the member states, one of the reasons being the weakness of the £.

They applied for a second time in 1966. France tried to oppose a veto, but Britain manoeuvred with the Friendly Five states (including Germany) to negotiate its entry into the Common Market.
At the time and through te 1970s, the UK was considered the "sick man of Europe".

Hardly a case of "they were told etc."

rogerg 21st Aug 2019 10:07

KnC Now your just turning into a joke!

zoigberg 21st Aug 2019 10:13


Originally Posted by KelvinD (Post 10550153)
....... I heard an Irish politician on Radio 4 this morning telling us how a border control relying on technology, pre-clearing etc can't work and doesn't exist anywhere in the world. I watched an interesting feature on the BBC not too long ago, showing how just such a border exists and operates quite well between Norway & Sweden. I think the only way to stop politicians lying to us it to rip their tongues out!

Please do consider after you have ripped the poor man’s tongue out.
1. The technological and administrative methods being used between Norway and Sweden are not sufficient to allow the EU to drop the backstop.
2. Norway is in the EEA, and is therefore far closer aligned with the EU than the destination we are currently heading for. The requirements for border control would be very different.


ORAC 21st Aug 2019 10:31

Fly-Aiprt,

The governments of the day never allowed a vote on joining the EEC until after we had joined. When a referendum was held those against, such as John Knott and Tony Benn, campaigned on what they saw as the obvious constitutional implications - the remain campaign insisted they were wrong and it was purely a trade treaty.

We talk now about “Project Fear”. It was also deployed in 1975 - by the same side - but in that case they won.....


Fly Aiprt 21st Aug 2019 11:06


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 10550563)
The governments of the day never allowed a vote on joining the EEC until after we had joined.

What I do know, is that for each application the British Government had the approbation of the Parliament.
There has not been any referendum in the EU concerning the British application either.





Fly Aiprt 21st Aug 2019 11:24


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 10550563)
the remain campaign insisted they were wrong and it was purely a trade treaty.

Here is the letter for the second application (my emphasis):

« Mr President,
I have the honour, on behalf of Her Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, to inform Your Excellency that the United Kingdom hereby applies to become a member of the European Economic Community under the terms of Article 237 of the Treaty establishing the European Economic Community.
Please accept, Mr President, the assurance of my highest consideration.
Harold Wilson »


All what people had to do was read the Treaty...
If they didn't - couldn't ;-) - don't blame the EU.

Bottom line, GB has not been cunned into signing an unfair agreement. They repeatedly applied and negociated for very advantageous conditions to break out of their isolation, economic and monetary weaknesses.
And obtained what they werer asking for.




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