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andrewn 20th Aug 2019 16:42


Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt (Post 10549968)
Viewed from a foreigner, this might appear a bit contradictory.
Isn't Brexit all about leaving the EU ?



Ah, the 'if the EU' once again^^!
Just a naive question :
Wasn't it the onus of the Brexit party, to 'be pragmatic and be aware of the consequences' before proposing to leave ?
Had they done so, maybe they wouldn't be praying for the EU to sort out the fix your country is now in.

I can tell you that the first thing that came to mind in Europe during the Leave campaign was 'what are they gonna do with Northern Ireland ?'.
Too bad this didn't occur to your leaders and voters before...

Maybe if the EU had treated Cameron with a little more respect when he came asking for reform, the EU wouldn't have forced the issue that is now apparent?

It takes two to tango my friend...

Fly Aiprt 20th Aug 2019 16:52


Originally Posted by andrewn (Post 10549956)
They've had 3 years to get their thinking caps on, no excuse for not being prepared for a variety of scenarios. The WA take it or leave it stance wont wash anymore.

Andrewn, please don't take it personnally, but this is the very exact thing many in the EU think and say about the British.
'When will they come to their wits, instead of giving this poor display of puny petty domestic disputes, and prepare for the plunge they have decided ?'

Many are apalled at seeing the Brexiteers chanting 'everything's gonna be alright' while Britannia is sailing full steam ahead into the iceberg of 31st of October.




Asturias56 20th Aug 2019 16:58

"It takes two to tango my friend..."

yeah and there are 27 countries on one side and one on the other - the 27 have a whole set of world wide trade agreements in place and the one has one with the Faeroe's I think

The 27 have had their policy & planning in place for over 3 years now - the one still hasn't got a policy on anything.......

It's going to be an interesting, but very one sided, dance..................

Sallyann1234 20th Aug 2019 17:01


Originally Posted by andrewn (Post 10549989)
Maybe if the EU had treated Cameron with a little more respect when he came asking for reform, the EU wouldn't have forced the issue that is now apparent?

It takes two to tango my friend...

But there never were two. That's where you insist on getting it wrong. There are one and 27.

Cameron was treated with great respect, because the EU wanted us to stay. Unfortunately what he wanted was outwith the EU's constitution. And what Boris wants now is still unacceptable to the EU.

Why are you so concerned? You wanted out of the EU, and very soon you will be out of the EU. Unfortunately no-one is going to throw you a lifeline - not the EU, not the USA, not the former Empire.

But you're getting out of the EU at last. You should be celebrating :ok:, not blaming others for not giving you what you wanted. :=

[crossed with Asturias]

Fly Aiprt 20th Aug 2019 17:01


Originally Posted by andrewn (Post 10549989)
the EU wouldn't have forced the issue that is now apparent?

The EU forced the UK to vote the Brexit ?
Andrewn, you sure you're ok ?


Originally Posted by andrewn (Post 10549989)
It takes two to tango my friend...

;-)
Who's gonna dance with poor old grumpy Britannia ?


NoelEvans 20th Aug 2019 17:32


Originally Posted by wiggy (Post 10549884)
If the UK leaves it's side of the NI Border unchecked doesn't that mean the UK are choosing to forego any checks on people crossing from South to North?

...

Exactly as it has been since 1923 (except for the War years from 1939). Please, please, please before anyone Posts comments like this try to study up a it on the Common Travel Area which has been in existence long, long, long before the Schengen Agreement or the European Union were ever thought of. (Although maybe a Charlie Chaplain 'lookalike' was already developing ideas of a 'united Europe'?) And the Common Travel Area includes a few non-EU citizens and territories.

People crossing that border is not and will not be an issue. Just get any ideas that it might be a problem out of your heads.

Goods crossing the border are the only matter to deal with and goods going from the South to the North will not be a problem as the British have stated often enough they they will not 'harden' that border. So if any 'backstop' is needed, it is to deal with how the EU are likely to 'harden up' the border in order to 'protect themselves'. No 'finger pointing', just reality.

(I'm still rather puzzled at the idea that the 'backstop' is an essential 'insurance policy', but when it becomes blindingly obvious that it is NOT a possibility, there will be no renegotiating so there won't be that 'insurance policy'. Saying "we won't re-negotiate" just seems to be void of common sense.)

Krystal n chips 20th Aug 2019 17:42

Buy now while stocks last ! .......obviously with so many top of the range marques here on JB, this won't cause any problems, they can simply fill the tank to capacity, stick a couple of very large cans in the boot and bingo !.......meanwhile, it won't be that simple for everybody else.......but hey, maybe this is just one of the fringe benefits of leaving with "no deal" ......just in time for Winter

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49405270

Grayfly 20th Aug 2019 17:48

Enough of all this arguing, belief is all you need. The EU will cave in, Johnson, Gove and Patel have never let us down.

November 1st. It's going to be great, we will have blue passports back , we can keep our 3 pin plugs, go back to eating fish and chips out of newspapers, bent bananas for sale by the lb and borders galore being patrolled by our own army. Might even get rid of the Jocks.

What's not to like, Farage and Trump as our friends, what could go wrong?

NoelEvans 20th Aug 2019 17:50


Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 (Post 10550009)
... There are one and 27.

...

How are those 27 getting on? Italy seems to make the UK look very well-managed. And how is forming a government getting on in Belgium? Out to break the previous record?

Sallyann1234 20th Aug 2019 18:10


Originally Posted by NoelEvans (Post 10550040)
How are those 27 getting on? Italy seems to make the UK look very well-managed. And how is forming a government getting on in Belgium? Out to break the previous record?

None our business. We're leaving the EU, remember?


Steepclimb 20th Aug 2019 18:20

I happen to think Bojo has a cunning plan. Perhaps even two cunning plans or should I say Dominic Cummins has a couple of plans. One is to crash out without a deal and blame the resultant chaos on the EU. The other is to provoke Parliament into blocking a no deal and declaring a general election to on the basis that Brexit has been betrayed. The latter is my favourite in the sense that it's most likely.

But like Baldrick's cunning plans. Neither makes any sense and are rife with risk.

​​​​​​It all could be avoided.

Fly Aiprt 20th Aug 2019 18:31


Originally Posted by Steepclimb (Post 10550055)
The other is to provoke Parliament into blocking a no deal and declaring a general election to on the basis that Brexit has been betrayed.

Would that mean asking for yet another delay ?


ThorMos 20th Aug 2019 18:54


Originally Posted by andrewn (Post 10549989)
Maybe if the EU had treated Cameron with a little more respect when he came asking for reform, the EU wouldn't have forced the issue that is now apparent?

It takes two to tango my friend...

You mean, when Cameron came along and wanted more rebates and 'special arrangements' for the UK?

Steepclimb 20th Aug 2019 18:58


Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt (Post 10550060)
Would that mean asking for yet another delay ?

Yes but of course Bojo will be innocent. His hand will be forced by the evil EU and traitorous MPs. No one in their right mind thinks no deal is anything other than an insane option.

The key here is to eliminate the DUP as a factor. Once they lose power they can be betrayed. They know this actually as the only people they hate more than the Irish is the British government. They expect betrayal.

I believe Bojo despite his buffoonry gets this.

The trouble is, it can go all pear shaped and there could be a no deal Brexit by accident. But that is not the cunning plan.

An election, an extension followed by a deal suspiciously like the withdrawal agreement with a fudged backstop called something else is the plan.

One of the problems with plans is that they rarely escape contact with the enemy. An extension risks the potential of an another referendum which may kill the Tories once and for all.

The next two months will reveal all.
​​​​

​​​​​​



ShotOne 20th Aug 2019 19:16

Could all be avoided...? Er, you mean by crowning Corbyn head of a revolutionary, sorry, caretaker government. However unwelcome no deal may be, that would be worse by every measure; months/years of uncertainty then we might leave or we might not, and the economy wrecked way beyond the most dismal projections of project-fear as a bonus.

Steepclimb 20th Aug 2019 19:51

Corbyn aside the Labour Party hasn't completely turned into a Marxist revolutionary party. Not yet anyway. Neither have the Tories turned into a right wing Dictatorship.

But it's gone it's silly.

racedo 20th Aug 2019 20:14


Originally Posted by ATNotts (Post 10549774)
At present, through the mechanisms of Income Support and Tax Credits, in many areas now all rolled into Universal Credit, businesses of all types can get away, quite legally, with paying the minimum wage confident in the knowledge that the government (that's the taxpayer to you and I) will top up their meagre wages. Can that be right? No not really. A business should stand on it's own two feet, and if the business can't be sustained by paying proper wages then they should go out of business.

The hospitality industry generally, as well as many other such as horticulture are guilty of this.

Seasonal workers do not get tax credits or anything else.

Fly Aiprt 20th Aug 2019 20:19


Originally Posted by Steepclimb (Post 10550072)
Yes but of course Bojo will be innocent. His hand will be forced by the evil EU and traitorous MPs. No one in their right mind thinks no deal is anything other than an insane option.​​​​​​

The Johnson guy may say what he wants to save face in his country, nobody cares outside the UK.
Loving Mother EU will continue to take care of this temperamental and irresolute 'partner', that presumably will continue to rave "we're leaving, period".



Originally Posted by Steepclimb (Post 10550072)
The trouble is, it can go all pear shaped and there could be a no deal Brexit by accident.
​​​​​​

Too bad for the reasonable part of the British people, but there might be some whispers of "good riddance" among the 27 ;-)


racedo 20th Aug 2019 20:21


Originally Posted by WB627 (Post 10549814)
The prospect of a hard border seems to be a hot topic at the moment in the media. What I can't understand is why the Good Friday Agreement will not prevent the imposition of a hard border. It looks to me like it would mean that the British Government have to ignore the agreement in the event of a no deal exit. As this is a legally binding international agreement, there must be consequences for ignoring it and imposing a hard border?

I am surprised that neither the Irish Government or the EU, have taken this matter to court to prevent it from happening.

Nor have I seen any explanation in the media as to how the Government will get round a hard border or contravening the Good Friday Agreement.

Don't need to. When US Congress (both houses) have made it clear that anything that damages GFA will mean UK gets no trade deal then no need to go to court. Next year is election year.

ShotOne 20th Aug 2019 20:58

If no-deal breaks the Good Friday agreement then the backstop does so in spades! Itís beyond ironic that whatís billed as an insurance policy makes the outcome itís supposed to prevent a certainty.


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